Snowflake, day 2 after double dose mistake

Status
Not open for further replies.
So it's test in an hour and then again an hour and a half after that? and if it goes up on the second test, that's when I should give her 0.2?
Click to expand...

Correct. But, if she skyrockets to 350 in an hour, then it's probably a good bet she'll need a small dose.

Carl
 
A confirmed rise that is big enough to not be all that close with variance, so your 172 would have to increase to 207 to be a confirmed rise of 1 point. That being said, the likelyhood of each of those tests being 20% high and the other 20% low is nil, so at some point you have to use your judgement. If at 1 hour you get above 200 I would test in 30 minutes and if you get another rise go ahead and shoot.
 
I agree. A rise that is outside of meter variance. If you get a 200, then anything higher than 225 or 230 in the next 30 minutes, that would be "rising" to me.

Carl
 
okay, will do. I'm going to leave this site for a bit to do some practice problems for my test, but I'll post the +1 after eating when the time comes. incase you guys go to sleep before then, thanks for your help!
 
I'm gonna grab my droid and head to bed, but I expect i'll be up still at about 1:10 here...I'll check in. Have fun!
 
Wow, hope we didn't jinx it by calling it! Wait the 30 out and check again, if you don't get a drop in the next hour I'd go ahead and shoot.
 
recap
+11 201/186
+12 172
+12.5 she ate
+13.5 204

So she didn't come up much at all, and has been surfing more or less since +11.
Carl
 
shoot! I forgot to take away the food after she ate, and I just saw her walk in licking her chops, so she probably just ate again. I'll take away her food now and test again in an hour. if it's a lot higher I'll shoot, and if it's level, I'll wait another hour.
 
Recap for the day, to compile:
AMPS: 371, gave 0.4u
+8 188
+10 163
+11 201/186
+12 172
+12.5 she ate
+13.5 204
+13.75 she ate again, more
+14.75 260, so I gave her about 0.2u

Will update this in the morning. Hopefully it'll be lower than the 371 from this morning!
 
How did I miss this? No biggie, since you did it perfectly! I'm betting the am number will start with a "2" rather than a 3.

Carl
 
at +11 (after 0.2), she was at 172! I'm very pleased. She was super hungry so I fed her now and will see where she is in an hour :) this could possibly be shaping up to be the best weekend ever--dare I dream to kick butt on the gmat, get snowflake off the insulin and then get to run off to london? if bad things come in 3's, do good things also??
 
It'll happen sooner or later, if the .25 doesn't doanything to dramatic I would go to .3 for above 250 because the while units are so much easier. Don't know if you tried it, but when trying to get the correct dose if you twist the plunger clockwise it will move up very slowly and makes it easier tho get fine adjustments for small doses
 
thanks for the tip--I did not know that.

Just tested her and at about +2.5 she's at 241. I'm thinking definitely 0.3 next time she's over 200.

On another note--she totally slept through this test. She was napping, I went over to her, she kind of looked up a little bit as I initially did the poke, and then immediately went back to sleep. what a laid back kitty--so glad she's taken so well to home testing.
 
You know, you had such a good run of numbers before...I would go back to shooting what you would have before the double up, you did a great job before. Just be vigilant about testing if she gets low and for a low number ps I would always see what the food does before shooting. I think that will keep you safer for the days when Mr. P is playing, you've shot a .4 into 165 on 4/8 and it was fine and gave you a good cycle, but then a .4 into 195 on 4/17 got you a little too much action. Maybe the food test would have let you know ahead of time on 4/17 that she was gonna drop on her own and saved you the drama.

*just to clarify, that 165 on 4/8 if you had fed and tested in an hour and it was 230 you would shoot the 0.4 based on the ps number and not the food inflated number.
 
AMPS: 257, gave 0.25
+2.5 241
+3.5 249
+7.75 169

Yeah, I don't want to stress her P too much more and it doesn't seem like it's kicking back in all the way just yet. I'd like to see some more numbers in the 50-99 range. Since 0.4 was a step down from the 0.6's and 0.5's I was doing, I might just stick with 0.4 for a while.

Question though, since I will be out of town and will be having a sitter come in to do one shot per day, is it fairly safe to assume that the freaky reaction to 0.4 was just because she was hyper sensitive due to the night before? If she's only getting one shot a day, I think I'd want it to be 0.4, not 0.2 (and 0.3 is tricky to find because my needles don't have 1/2 unit markings). But if it's likely that she could have a reaction to 0.4 like she did on the 17th, I clearly don't want that to happen when no one is home and I won't be back for a few days.
 
There's really no way of knowing what caused that, but with the huge drop by +1.75 I'd attribute it more likely to Mr. P kicking in. You have shot some fairly large for the ps doses into really low numbers with no ill effects, she's gotten really low some days yet not bounced from the lows. I wouldn't be too worried about her if she gets low, she seems to make it through it. I think you'd be fine going back to the .5 or .6 for the mid yellow ps number again, I would do as you were doing before basically, but let her run no shot through at least 150 so her P gets to try to figure things out. Hope she'll start pulling some really long cycles on you so the one shot a day will work out. I would just play it by ear still until you get closer to departure cause a lot can change between now and then.

Today is starting to not look too bad!
 
She was 162 at 8am, so +10.5, then 204 at 10am +12.5. Before all of the mess, I would've shot at 204, so I shot slightly under 0.4 then. I would've preferred to do a food test, but I have MY test coming up and need to leave the house in 20 min! So, I'll test again when I get home afterwards and hopefully she'll be at least low 100's. we'll see. For now, I'm just hoping I can be in the 700's :-D
 
Hoping for high 700s for you, and low 100s for Robbie!
Good luck today,
Carl
 
You've got a lot on your plate right now, glad you have a vacation coming up! God, wouldn't I give my right arm to be heading back to Europe....but too much work and 2 cats with crazy food needs. I like to go for 2 weeks at a time cause the biggest cost is the airfare and once you're there it's pretty cheap, plus I prefer not to take two 9-14 hour flights in the same week. Those trans-atlantic flights really suck, but the bright side is the alcohol is FREE even in coach!

Hope your test is going well!
 
oh man this girl is all over the place :sad: I just got home and she was 31 (at roughly +8)! She's acting fine. Their food was almost untouched, so I put out some of the fishy food she *loves* and she dove right in, so I'm hoping that will bring her bs back up, since maybe part of the low number was that she just hadn't eaten much. Guess the 0.4 for the petsitter isn't going to happen--maybe back down to 0.2 to be safe. As for me, I was very happy with a mid-700's number :-D
 
As for Europe, I would give an arm and a leg to go for two weeks, but I can only get a week at a time off for work :\ Luckily I had enough airline miles that the airfare was just paying taxes and fees, and I have friends in London so I get to stay with them for freeeeee :)
 
and not 20 minutes later she is now at 51 (+8.5ish). Much much happier. I think tonight I'll see how far I can push it until giving her insulin.
 
A little low, but if she's acting normal I wouldn't worry at this point. A 31 a +5 or earlier scares me, a 31 at +8 after insulin has already peaked not as much. Especially because she's staying down, if it were a true hypo you would expect the liver to dump and numbers to quickly rebound high. She never seems to bounce after those really low numbers so I'm more inclined to believe that she "did it to herself", Mr. P kicked in and made some insulin and if it were truely too low he would have signaled the liver to take care of it. I have caught kitten that low since her last shot, so it is in the normal range for non-diabetics...just scarier I know on insulin. I was actually hoping she'd go low today, more like 60's or 50's, lets see how she handles that food...hope she stays down, don't throw a ton of food at her all at once.
 
Yeah, she seems fine :shrug: The food that I gave her was lc wet (plus literally 4 pieces of kibble)--I didn't want to throw hc food at her, since that tends to make things worse in the long run, I just wanted to get some food in her since it didn't look like she'd eaten in a while.
 
There's just never a dull moment, is there?
I'll be on for a while too, hopping between here and Health...

Carl
 
Okay, so last night she was at 256 at +12, so I shot about 0.3. However, I woke up to 336 at +10! I'm horrified, as I think what must have happened is that she probably went hypo and then had a bump, since there's no other reason for her to be so high. What should I do? I will be leaving the house at +11--should I shoot since she's so high, or not shoot, since it's likely a reaction to going hypo? oy vey.
 
well, there is no way of knowing really what happened. She could have had a bounce in the pm cycle from that 30 yesterday morning. I'd shoot before you leave, when will you be back? You can reduce just to be safe, 0.2 or something.
 
I ended up shooting 0.2. Just got home and at +10.5 she's at 329 :( so, I shot another 0.2. feeling extremely discouraged. Going to test every hour as late as I can stay up to see what's happening.

update: 372 at +2.
 
rise from eating and the insulin hasn't started working?

Carl
 
It's frustrating because it seems like 0.2 isn't nearly enough, but 0.4 sent her back into the 30's :\

PMPS 329, shot 0.2
+2 372
+2.5 356
+3 349
+3.5 309 (insulin kicking in)
+4 299

And she's been drinking a lot of water again.

In other news, Midnight, my non diabetic kitty seems to be going carb crazy! very infrequently, I'll give her a cheerio as a treat (maybe once every other month). My cheerios have always lived in their bags on top of my fridge. Tonight I caught her on top of the fridge tearing open a bag! They've always been there and she's never done that before! Shortly before that (maybe 10 min?) I caught her tearing into a bag of bagels! There's fresh food out, so what gives?! she's never done this before. I rebagged all of the cheerios and put those baggies in the fridge where she can't get to them. I'm going to post this on the health board too, incase this is some sign of disease or disorder or something.
 
Not sure about Midnight's recent fixation. Heck, my civvie, Mullet, decided he liked dark chocolate (at first anyway :lol: ) a couple of weeks ago. I've also caught him tearing into a pack of hamburger buns. He's just a piglet. He eats grits (and even I won't eat those)!


I'm thinking with the .2 vs. .4 dose, what happened when she went really low, or like today when she was flat, it's more due to something internal, whether the pancreas or her cells just absorbing the insulin better, that happens only randomly. That's the worst thing, you never know if or when "it" is going to happen, and when you are shooting such tiny doses, you wouldn't think it would matter too too much.... but it does.
Carl
 
I still cast my vote for the .4u for a mid 200, maybe 0.3u if she's 200. This is very much like Josie, anything less than a 0.4u doesn't really work and sometimes the 0.4 really works. I believe, like Carl, this is something internal and my vote is the P, P action always seems to be much more pronounced under 200. Since the P can also correct low BG and cause a liver dump, I don't worry as much unless we're talking about a huge dose. Snowflake has proven she can handle low numbers pretty well, your SS is amazing because you were able to hold her so low for so long...most cats would be bouncy as hell from going as low as she got. Also, 0.4u going into a 330 vs. a 204 is much different, I actually think you did better with the 0.65u on higher numbers like you were doing before. If this holds, give her a good dose next cycle and see if you can knock those symptoms back down, glucose is eliminated through the kidneys after about 250 which is why you're seeing the drinking/urine increasing, nip that in the bud as soon as you can.
 
Thanks for the continued checking in. she was 285 at AMPS, so I shot very slightly under 0.4. I'm going to try to come home at lunch to get a +5 reading--if it isn't under 50, that will give me confidence to give 0.6 again at these high numbers--I just hate not knowing how low she's going during the day.
 
At +5 she's 320. Something must be very wrong--it seems like the 0.4 is doing nothing. One question--I recently switched to shorter needles. Could that have anything to do with it? Maybe the insulin isn't getting as far into her body so it isn't being absorbed all the way? Either that or it's hitting her really fast and dropping her down and causing a bounce, but that doesn't seem very likely. Could the insulin be bad? I've had it since the first week of March, but it's never been out of the fridge for more than 5 min at a time.
 
Also, when you're in the middle of a cycle like that, and they're still so high--is there anything you can do to bring them down? I tried getting her to run around a bit and it worked for a few minutes, but that can't be enough to make any meaningful difference.
 
The shorter needles shouldn't matter as long as you're getting under the skin and you don't see any wet spots in her fur after the shot...

Unfortunately, you can't do much to lower her numbers in between shots. Exercise does help, but like stress, it's usually not a long-lasting change.
The insulin should still be good. How does it look? Do you see particles floating in it?

Carl
 
When I came home at +13.5 she was 244. I shot somewhere between 0.5 and 0.6 after feeding her. Crossing my fingers. Depending on what she reads in the morning, I may try to stay home to do an hour by hour curve. At this point I'd almost prefer her go a bit too low just to give her kidneys a break. the insulin looks fine--still particles but I also don't know what wrong looks like.

+1 251
+2 249
+2.5 221
+3.5 178
+4 166
 
That looks better, did the numbers drop some more and hopefully she's still down? I think some of your cycles you just get a huge response from Mr. P and some you don't....see, no drop at +2 on this one? Mr P I don't think was playing around at this point, but he may have kicked in once the numbers got lower....Did she fall after +6?
 
+1 251
+2 249
+2.5 221
+3.5 178
+4 166
+6 107
+11 102!!!!!!!

Thank you for urging me to shoot higher! I think that may have been just what her P needed! If she was at 107 at the nadir, she probably didn't drop super low after that (I hope, at least), and it seems like her P must be working since she's stayed low. I'm going to see if I can work from home today so I can do the food test!
 
Correct, I don't think you got much lower after +6 and that is a hell of a surf she had. Agreed, food test and hope it goes well. For whatever reason I just see a lot of evidence that even if a cat has P function once they get above a certain 200ish number the P just says "forget it" and doesn't kick in again until the numbers fall....seems to be about 150 where you get some response. This is why I think you see cycles where a slightly lower dose doesn't do anything really, and just a slight increase that gets you down in the "P range" then does so much....even lets you surf a 100 like she's doing. I would go NS until over 150 and rising, if it's rising hard then hit it hard, if it's not then try a reduced dose like a 0.2. And wait at least 2 hours after you feed the test food.
 
And keep us updated!

Just to add that I think you can make judgements on dose on your own, you're a smart lady and you have a lot of data to look at. Initially your ss scared the sh*t out of me because the numbers were so low and you were shooting at such low numbers, but the reality is you have so much data that suggests snowflake tolerates that kind of dosing that I think it's okay (just give her a chance to self regulate and don't shoot below 150), it is just so much different then what we normally deal with. You've been doing an amazing job, and I do hope the numbers you were seeing are a result of her P working and not just your amazing work with the doses. I have a feeling today... ::antijinx::
 
+1 251
+2 249
+2.5 221
+3.5 178
+4 166
+6 107
+11 102
+12.5 147 (i think she may have eaten a little before I got home)

Just fed and now she's just kind of hanging out.
 
Well, guess we'll see what happens! If she gets up to 200 i'd try 0.3ish, the 0.4 has put you down in the 30's twice now the last couple times and the 40's are the very bottom of my comfort level with insulin on board. If she's higher I'd go with the same dose you did yesterday.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top