Smiffy's numbers so far end June

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Looby & Smiffy

Looby & Smiffy

Member Since 2016
@Alexi @Elizabeth and Bertie @Marlena @Tuxedo Mom @Diana&Tom @BJM@scoobydoox @Larry and Kitties@Woodsywife

I have posted this on the main forum as one of the administrators on FB who is also a well-known member here told me that the Caninsulin forum is hardly used now.

Smiffy is still on about 70g Hill's m/d dry food for Diabetics and 100% protein treats ... have tried for three weeks now to get her interested in wet food - all types and various things sprinkled on the top and she is not having it - believe me! she licks the jelly or the surface of a pate or the crumbled treat or fortiflora and then walks away. Bear in mind I also have to give her a Seraquin chew with each of her main meals - cut up and sprinkled with a Thrive treat on the top of her food as she doesn't like the chews on their own!

Smiffy's estimated Nadir is about 3-4 hours after her food (as per her curve at the Vet) .... I inject between 9.30 and 10 in the morning and the same in the evening ..... I am going to try to get a preshot number tonight even if it means she doesn't get her shot .....

(When she was on 2 units of Caninsulin her Fructosamine was 405 ...... her curve at the Vets on May 21st after a hypo episode on 2 units using Alphatrak were preshot 21.1, +4 (Nadir) 6.8, at +5 12.8 .... actually this is useless information - not a full curve now I look at it!!! but the 6.8 could have been a hypo at home as the Vetsulin website says that readings at the Vet can be upto 5.5 higher than at home - the old Vet Alex says on this report that it is good curve and the numbers should not be causing a hypo - he didn't believe me and told me to video the next one and mentioned PTS for the second time so we sacked him!).

Here are some of her readings so far on one unit of Caninsulin with an AccuChek Aviva Easyclick Glucometer and under the care of her new Vet Roberta ..... Smiffy is now allowed to graze for 5 or 6 hours after her shot so that she can snack at her lowest BG of the day to help to avoid hypos:

Mon 30th June 20 minutes after eating and before her shot 15 (so as close to a preshot number as I have been able to manage so far)

Tues 31st June +7.5 14.8
Weds 1st June +7.5 14.8
Thurs 2nd June +7.5 14.8 Took urine sample negative keytones and negative glucose
Sat 5th June +8 14.8
Mon 6th +8 10.7
Tues 7th +8 11.9
Thurs 9th +7.5 12.3
Fri 10th +3 (aroud her Nadir time when she was at the Vet but this is at home) 8.5 Took urine sample ketones negative and glucose high (dark brown on keto diastrix - somebody on FB said that glucose can accumulate in the urine on Caninsulin)

Sat 11th +8 14.8
Mond 13th +3 13.5 +8 16.3
Tues 14th +7 15
Weds 15th +5 12 Check up at Vet Fructosamine 436
Thurs 17th loose stools - treated with high carb i/d and fortiflora for two days
Mon 20th +7 14.4
Thurs 23rd +7 16.3
Friday 24th +7 14.3 Preshot 14.7
Saturady 25th Took Preshot 12.9 Urine sample - negative keytones, some glucose

That's it so far ....
Do you think it is a good idea to try to get a preshot number even if I it means I have to miss giving her a shot just for one day?

I am a little concerned that her +7 numbers are going up and that her Fructosamine was so much higher ..... Roberta is happy with things so far ... we are seeing her again in a month but I can call her to ask her if I should increase the dose to 1 1/2 units ..... we will also discuss changing to Glargine if she can justify Smiffy is not doing well on Caninsulin.

You can get a full summary of how what resulted from our first trip to the new Vet Roberta on the thread 'Smiffy's trip to the Vet June' ....

I have to say that in the past few weeks she has been back to her normal self and not hiding upstairs under the chair in the bedroom ... she has been waking us up, going for walks with me and sitting in the sun, using her old bed again and spending more time with us downstairs and playing ... she is not drinking a lot or peeing much and her coat is dandruff free now .......

This has taken me ages to do here so I hope you all get to see it ...... I missed somebody out above who is trying to help me set up a spreadsheet but I haven't got to that yet .... not very computer savvy! But I have step by step instructions on how to set it up somewhere here if I could find it .....

I am really interested to hear what you think and if you think .... will let you know what her preshot number is if I can get one one evening .....

I keep the Forum as a tab a the top of my computer when I am on line but it doesn't tell me when there is an alert as Facebook does .... so I have to keep logging in to this page to see what is there ....
 
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I had already posted on your other thread so have copied it here - these are my thoughts:

Nothing about those numbers look alarming, and they seem steady enough. Renal threshold for glucose (the level at which kidneys start leaking glucose into the urine) is around 15 and you have had one urine which showed no glucose at all so she must have been lower while her bladder was filling up. At +7 there is still some insulin working so pre shot numbers are likely to be a little higher than the +7 reading you have had. Any particular reason you are doing +8 readings? We could do with some more readings around her nadir so if she doesn't like being tested too much you could maybe try a +4 number instead of a +8. Ideally you should test before every meal as what we don't know yet is how far her glucose drops from her pre shot level. She does appear to be dropping as the single +3 reading would indicate which means the insulin is working. What you don't want is to push her insulin dose up until you know the difference between the pre shot and nadir readings given her history. Normal behaviour is good. I would be inclined to take things slowly and get more readings before deciding what to do with her dose.
 
Alexi said:
I had already posted on your other thread so have copied it here - these are my thoughts:

Nothing about those numbers look alarming, and they seem steady enough. Renal threshold for glucose (the level at which kidneys start leaking glucose into the urine) is around 15 and you have had one urine which showed no glucose at all so she must have been lower while her bladder was filling up. At +7 there is still some insulin working so pre shot numbers are likely to be a little higher than the +7 reading you have had. Any particular reason you are doing +8 readings? We could do with some more readings around her nadir so if she doesn't like being tested too much you could maybe try a +4 number instead of a +8. Ideally you should test before every meal as what we don't know yet is how far her glucose drops from her pre shot level. She does appear to be dropping as the single +3 reading would indicate which means the insulin is working. What you don't want is to push her insulin dose up until you know the difference between the pre shot and nadir readings given her history. Normal behaviour is good. I would be inclined to take things slowly and get more readings before deciding what to do with her dose.
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OK! This is a copy of my repsonse to you from the other thread so all the ic
 
Looby & Smiify said:
OK! This is a copy of my repsonse to you from the other thread so all the ic
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@Alexi

Here is my response copied from the other thread so that all the information and comments are on this thread:

I was told by the Vet and somebody else here and I googled it that the renal threshold is between 12 and 14 .....

I know that her preshot numbers are going to be higher than her +7.5/8 as that is when I was told the Caninsulin begins to wear off ....

I am give her her shot at 9.30/10 in the morning ... then I am out of action until about 3pm ....... I could try to take a reading then which would be +5 ......

The reason I take reading at +7/8 is because I try to get out to the garden with Smiffy for and hour or so for her to be outside and to exercise a bit .... she won't go out without me as she is scared of coming across neighbours (including a toddler that she hates!) using the communal passage way between our bottom gardens ... she LOVES these walks and then I test her with a treat when we get in when she is in a good mood (she doesn't like to be pampered much but is otherwise adorable).

I was also told that her Nadir could be an hour earlier at the Vets and that would coincide with her having a snack at about 1.30/2pm sometimes.

I have a lot of difficulty giving her her shot ........ I put her food down and she is already on the stairs next to her food station ..... I put it in front of her and she stares at it before eating ...... I have to wait quietly with the pen primed for her to have eaten enough for me to shoot her .... sometimes she only has a nibble and wanders off upstairs or into the bathroom (we have a tiny tiny house) ... I follow her with the bowl of food and the pen and a treat and after three goes she has eaten enough for me to shoot her and she goes off for a bit either upstiars or outside and comes back in about 15 minutes to have some more to eat ....... if I were to try to test her before her food I would be suprised if she didn't run away and then I would almost certainly miss her shot ..... you have to be here to see the run around ..... when I give her the shot she most of the time doesn't even notice but if she does she gives me a hiss ........ that is why I am proposing to take a preshot test one night and not worry if I miss her shot as a result as I don't think she will allow me to do test and shot and have eaten enough (don't want to run the risk of a hypo even though she seems to know to eat when her BG is low) ........

Her Nadir in the evening would be about 1 or 2 in the morning so that is not very practical as she is normally upstairs under the chair in the bedroom by then. It's so difficult ....

I completely agree with you ... a Nadir reading in the morning is not normally possible as I am in bed .... (I sleep during the day like Smiffy and stay up all night like a cat!!!) ..... She follows me everywhere so at her Nadir in the morning she is in the bedroom with me under the chair and then we both come down at about 3 ..... I will do my best ... see if I can get a Nadir one evening at 1am ......

I think you are probably right not to raise the dose ,.... I was getting worried as her Fructosamine was so much higher on one unit and her +7.5/8 was rising but you will see today that her +7 is back down to 14.3 so I am pleased about that ....

I have posted on FB that I have posted Smiffy's numbers here under 'Smiffy's numbers so far end June' as some of the girls there that have been so helpful especially when she had her two hypo episodes on 2 units are also members here but I don't know what their profile names are here ....

Do you think changing to Glargine would help to lower her numbers?
 
Glargine is Lantus so the Lantus users would be able to help you with that, you do need to be testing regularly with Lantus as it stays in the body and needs dose adjustments a bit more frequently than with Caninsulin, the risk is you lower Smiffy's numbers too far and run into problems. The stickies in the Lantus forum have some useful information which may help you decide if that is a better insulin for you.
 
@Alexi Managed a pre-shot test for the first time ever!!!!! I am soooo thrilled and her reading was 14.7 so really not bad at all! What do you think? Not much higher than her +7 reading ....
 
That looks fine - if you can grab a nadir test tonight it will help fill in another piece of the jigsaw as we now know where she started from.
 
Alexi said:
That looks fine - if you can grab a nadir test tonight it will help fill in another piece of the jigsaw as we now know where she started from.
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I agree with Alexi. If you can get a +3 or +4 reading that should give a good indication of how low the Caninsulin is taking Smiffy. Ideally you would want to see just how low the insulin is taking Smiffy.
 
Alexi said:
That looks fine - if you can grab a nadir test tonight it will help fill in another piece of the jigsaw as we now know where she started from.
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Couldn't get a Nadir tonight .... She retired to her place under the chair and wouldn't come out then couldn't disturb husband trying to sleep! Will have to try again tomorrow ...... Still really pleased with getting the preshot - she was just in the right place! Well done me!!!
 
@Alexi ..... did urine sample this morning ... she was negative for keytones and had middle range glucose on the keto diastrix stick ..... better than the last time when it went very brown .... I am updating the readings on this thread so I know where it is as I am too thick on the computer to do a spreadsheet!!!! I will get there in the end ..... if only DH had the patience or the time to help me out ... mmmmmm ....... no keytones is great though ......
 
I'm sure someone here can get a spreadsheet up and running for you, the main thing is the numbers to go in it!
 
Looby is like a cat- great, I like that.
You're doing great, sorry that DH is not very cooperative, it must be very difficult for you.
My DH is helping a lot, specially with the computer stuff, I totally rely on him in this respect as I'm not brilliant.
The only think I need to mention which I think is very important is that, after you get the idea how low the present dose of insulin takes Smiffy, you try NOT to skip the shots! At the moment on the small dose you give it does not look like Smiffy goes too low, specially not at the preshot times you should be able to give her her injection.
Please, whoever chooses to advise here correct me if I'm wrong.
Keep doing a good job Looby.
Hugs,
Marlena
 
Looby & Smiify said:
@Alexi Managed a pre-shot test for the first time ever!!!!! I am soooo thrilled and her reading was 14.7 so really not bad at all! What do you think? Not much higher than her +7 reading ....
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Hi Lucille,

If the preshot reading is nearly the same as your +7 reading, that means that Vetsulin is no more acting 7 hours after your shot, and even before.
That's not really a good news, as for healing, a cat needs to stay at least 5 hours below 200 (my vet's recommendation) between 2 shots , and that could explain your increasing fructosamine results.

I have seen that you wanted to switch to Lantus: it really not works the same as Vetsulin, as there is an overlap between two shots. For this reason, preshot tests are essential if you want to switch to this insulin, as well as the use of syringes instead of pens (Lantus needs to be injected in really small doses, it's not the same dosage per ml). But Lantus gives better results, without comparison to Vetsulin!!!! It's up to you, and it's only your choice!

And by the way, please have a look at my post : http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...mbg-91-vet-explanation-toxic-diabetes.159698/
It will explain you why dry food isn't an option when you have a diabetic cat (explanation given by a vet and by an endocrinology professor).
 
@Alexi I have a massive headache today so I not going to be able to do much tonight .... will let you know as soon as I can get her Nadir one night Thanks for your support
 
Marlena said:
Looby is like a cat- great, I like that.
You're doing great, sorry that DH is not very cooperative, it must be very difficult for you.
My DH is helping a lot, specially with the computer stuff, I totally rely on him in this respect as I'm not brilliant.
The only think I need to mention which I think is very important is that, after you get the idea how low the present dose of insulin takes Smiffy, you try NOT to skip the shots! At the moment on the small dose you give it does not look like Smiffy goes too low, specially not at the preshot times you should be able to give her her injection.
Please, whoever chooses to advise here correct me if I'm wrong.
Keep doing a good job Looby.
Hugs,
Marlena
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I try not to miss her shot but if she doesn't eat enough then goes and hides upstairs I have no choice ..... I usually manage to do it one way or another ....

I am soooo glad I decided to lower her dose from 2 to 1 unit ... after the preshot number yesterday I am sure I don't need to up her shot ... she is doing really well ... I am hoping that her pancreas is beginning to feel a bit more rested .... it's the Nadir testing that is so hard to get .....

Yes I could do with my DH helping me with the computer stuff - he is so busy with two jobs he hasn't got the time or the patience unfortunately .....

Thank you Marlena for your encouragement
 
Capoo said:
Hi Lucille,

If the preshot reading is nearly the same as your +7 reading, that means that Vetsulin is no more acting 7 hours after your shot, and even before.
That's not really a good news, as for healing, a cat needs to stay at least 5 hours below 200 (my vet's recommendation) between 2 shots , and that could explain your increasing fructosamine results.

I have seen that you wanted to switch to Lantus: it really not works the same as Vetsulin, as there is an overlap between two shots. For this reason, preshot tests are essential if you want to switch to this insulin, as well as the use of syringes instead of pens (Lantus needs to be injected in really small doses, it's not the same dosage per ml). But Lantus gives better results, without comparison to Vetsulin!!!! It's up to you, and it's only your choice!

And by the way, please have a look at my post : http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...mbg-91-vet-explanation-toxic-diabetes.159698/
It will explain you why dry food isn't an option when you have a diabetic cat (explanation given by a vet and by an endocrinology professor).
Click to expand...
@Alexi and @Capoo @Marlena @Elizabeth and Bertie
I know all about dry food and what has been written about it but she doesn't like wet food as I have explained on nearly every time I post a thread ... my hands are tied ..... I can't keep argueing this point as I can't do anything about it .... I look at the clinical signs and she is very well at the moment in herself so something must be going right ..... I have read the above article and have discussed it with our new Vet too but she is of the same opinion as me - if Smiffy is not happy to eat wet food then there is no point trying to force her .... I tried for three weeks to get her onto wet by adding it to her dry and sprinkling it with Thrive chicken treats or fortiflora but she just refused to eat it and I ended up missing some of her shots or having to remove it so she could get to her biscuits .... she has access to wet food every day as Pasha eats both wet and dry but she is not interested no matter how I present it to her. I can't keep explaining this to people every time I post a thread .. I put it in her signature for that reason ..... I appreciate you care but as I say I can't change it .... it IS an option so I don't think it is fair of you to say that is IS NOT an option .... it is not going to kill her for goodness sake ...

I see what you mean about the Caninsulin possilbly not working after 7 hours and I will raise that point with her Vet ...... at least she is only 14.7 or thereaabouts .... a month or so ago she was considerably higher in the 20s which is why I am happy that she is improving ...

Yes of course she would be better on 5 hours below 200 (11) but we are not quite there yet ..... can we be a bit more positive here ... it is GOOD news because she is moving in the right direction .....

I am considering using Glargine but it is not a definite especially if as you say I would have to do preshot tests every day .... she is a difficult cat and would not allow me to do that so maybe we are stuck with Vetsulin .... she is obvioulsy not poorly on it ..... she is back to her cheeky self now ......

Thanks for your input .... I will try to take some tests before +7 ......

What do you others think?
 
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Looby & Smiify said:
@Alexi and @Capoo @Marlena @Elizabeth and Bertie
I know all about what has been written about dry food but she doesn't like wet food as I have explained on nearly every time I post a thread ... my hands are tied ..... I can't keep argueing this point as I can't do anything about it .... I look at the clinical signs and she is very well at the moment in herself so something must be going right ..... I have read the above article and have discussed it with our new Vet too but she is of the same opinion as me - if Smiffy is not happy to eat wet food then there is no point trying to force her .... I tried for three weeks to get her onto wet by adding it to her dry and sprinkling it with Thrive chicken treats or fortiflora but she just refused to eat it and I ended up missing some of her shots or having to remove it so she could get to her biscuits .... she has access to wet food every day as Pasha eats both wet and dry but she is not interested no matter how I present it to her. I can't keep explaining this to people every time I post a thread .. I put it in her signature for that reason ..... I appreciate you care but as I say I can't change it .... it IS an option so I don't think it is fair of you to say that is IS NOT an option .... it is not going to kill her for goodness sake ... it is as if you are saying I am not caring for my cat properly ... I have got her from being very sick all day and having diarrhea to how she is today which is back to her cheeky self ..... I am sorry but I don't think it is reasonable of you to say it is NOT an option ... if there is a language misunderstanding here I appologise but please be careful how you phrase things and look at Smiffys signature first or ask me how I have got on with trying to get her to eat wet food first before you jump in with a statement like that .... I know you care but I care more .......

I see what you mean about the Caninsulin possilbly not working after 7 hours and I will raise that point with her Vet ...... at least she is only 14.7 or thereaabouts .... a month or so ago she was considerably higher in the 20s which is why I am happy that she is improving ...

Yes of course she would be better on 5 hours below 200 (11) but we are not quite there yet ..... can we be a bit more positive here ... it is GOOD news because she is moving in the right direction .....

I am considering using Glargine but it is not a definite especially if as you say I would have to do preshot tests every day .... she is a difficult cat and would not allow me to do that so maybe we are stuck with Vetsulin .... she is obvioulsy not poorly on it ..... she is back to her cheeky self now ......

Thanks for your input .... I will try to take some tests before +7 ......

What do you others think?
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Looby, if Smiffy won't eat wet food, then ok, no-one can force you into feeding her wet food. It's simply that a switch would very probably lower her BGs without you doing anything else. But if it's not possible, it's not possible. People will get the message in the end, and you will just have to accept that dry food is not ideal and that therefore treating her diabetes is going to be harder work.

What everyone here WILL continue to encourage you to do though is test more frequently. We know you're limited here but this is something that YOU have in your power to do if you persevere. It's not about whether Smiffy is a difficult cat and "likes" or "dislikes" something. You have to find a way that she won't object to - it's the only way you're going to get the information people here need if you want their advice. You ask for comments on the numbers you're getting but if you only test once a day there really isn't much to comment on. We need to see at least a mini curve, otherwise we're all just guessing.

So yes, numbers are coming down from the 20s of a while ago, but mid-teen numbers are still not ideal. The vet may say this is ok because vets set a higher threshold for diabetic cats - they assume most owners don't test and they don't want to be liable for hypos. But we will all tell you here that you're aiming for single figures, for optimum control and better long-term health. Your suggestion of upping the dose to 1.5u seemed a reasonable one to me but as you know, we can't offer dosing advice here, you really need to talk to your vet. If I were in your shoes I'd ring her now and discuss this, rather than wait until the next visit. A small increase might just drop Smiffy into more acceptable numbers for more of the day and should definitely lower the result of her next fructo test.

Diana
 
Looby & Smiify said:
@Alexi and @Capoo @Marlena @Elizabeth and Bertie
I know all about dry food and what has been written about it but she doesn't like wet food as I have explained on nearly every time I post a thread ... my hands are tied ..... I can't keep argueing this point as I can't do anything about it .... I look at the clinical signs and she is very well at the moment in herself so something must be going right ..... I have read the above article and have discussed it with our new Vet too but she is of the same opinion as me - if Smiffy is not happy to eat wet food then there is no point trying to force her .... I tried for three weeks to get her onto wet by adding it to her dry and sprinkling it with Thrive chicken treats or fortiflora but she just refused to eat it and I ended up missing some of her shots or having to remove it so she could get to her biscuits .... she has access to wet food every day as Pasha eats both wet and dry but she is not interested no matter how I present it to her. I can't keep explaining this to people every time I post a thread .. I put it in her signature for that reason ..... I appreciate you care but as I say I can't change it .... it IS an option so I don't think it is fair of you to say that is IS NOT an option .... it is not going to kill her for goodness sake ...

I see what you mean about the Caninsulin possilbly not working after 7 hours and I will raise that point with her Vet ...... at least she is only 14.7 or thereaabouts .... a month or so ago she was considerably higher in the 20s which is why I am happy that she is improving ...

Yes of course she would be better on 5 hours below 200 (11) but we are not quite there yet ..... can we be a bit more positive here ... it is GOOD news because she is moving in the right direction .....

I am considering using Glargine but it is not a definite especially if as you say I would have to do preshot tests every day .... she is a difficult cat and would not allow me to do that so maybe we are stuck with Vetsulin .... she is obvioulsy not poorly on it ..... she is back to her cheeky self now ......

Thanks for your input .... I will try to take some tests before +7 ......

What do you others think?
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Please, DO NOT tag me anymore in your post!

I am really fed up with rehearsing and rehearsing always the same thing.
And I'm also not happy at all to see my comments posted on Facebook without my consent.

So, please, just forget me.....

Good luck for the future!
 
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Alexi said:
I'm sure someone here can get a spreadsheet up and running for you, the main thing is the numbers to go in it!
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I think it was @BJM that posted step by step instructions for me to set up a spreadsheet but I still didn't understand what to do!!! I am a very bright person honestly but I am not when it comes to computers and car mechanics! If somebody could set it up for me that would be great but I think I have to do it as I have to open a google account or something to do it?
 
Diana&Tom said:
Looby, if Smiffy won't eat wet food, then ok, no-one can force you into feeding her wet food. It's simply that a switch would very probably lower her BGs without you doing anything else. But if it's not possible, it's not possible. People will get the message in the end, and you will just have to accept that dry food is not ideal and that therefore treating her diabetes is going to be harder work.

What everyone here WILL continue to encourage you to do though is test more frequently. We know you're limited here but this is something that YOU have in your power to do if you persevere. It's not about whether Smiffy is a difficult cat and "likes" or "dislikes" something. You have to find a way that she won't object to - it's the only way you're going to get the information people here need if you want their advice. You ask for comments on the numbers you're getting but if you only test once a day there really isn't much to comment on. We need to see at least a mini curve, otherwise we're all just guessing.

So yes, numbers are coming down from the 20s of a while ago, but mid-teen numbers are still not ideal. The vet may say this is ok because vets set a higher threshold for diabetic cats - they assume most owners don't test and they don't want to be liable for hypos. But we will all tell you here that you're aiming for single figures, for optimum control and better long-term health. Your suggestion of upping the dose to 1.5u seemed a reasonable one to me but as you know, we can't offer dosing advice here, you really need to talk to your vet. If I were in your shoes I'd ring her now and discuss this, rather than wait until the next visit. A small increase might just drop Smiffy into more acceptable numbers for more of the day and should definitely lower the result of her next fructo test.

Diana
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Thank you Diana that is all very reasonable and you know that I am doing my very best under very difficult circumstances - not just with Smiffy being a little tinker to treat but also my health situation ...... She is soooo welll at the moment ..... have just been out for her daily walk and she is bright as a button - not hiding away upstairs like she used to so she is definitle improving ..... I will talk to the Vet about upping her dose - I am just a bit cautious until I have managed to get a Nadir number ..... I try every day!

Thanks for your considered advice and support and I hope it continues
 
Capoo said:
Please, DO NOT tag me anymore in your post!

I am really fed up with rehearsing and rehearsing always the same thing.
And I'm also not happy at all to see my comments posted on Facebook without my consent.

So, please, just forget me.....

Good luck for the future!
Click to expand...
I don't need your consent to post comments that I have recieved as I have not mentioned your name nor the source ...... I'm sorry you feel this way .... you just needed to understand that Smiffy is a tinker to treat and I have my own health limitations and that we are making progress together step by step ....... I have no bad feeling towards you - I simply ask that you understand our cirumstances a bit better .... I can't for example in the UK just choose which insulin to use - there are strict legistlations about insulin for cats and dogs ...... I and the Vet have to justify a change from Caninsulin by proving that it is either not working or making her ill for example ..... Good luck to you too ..... I really mean that .....
 
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Looby & Smiify said:
I don't need your consent to post comments that I have recieved as I have not mentioned your name nor the source ...... I'm sorry you feel this way .... Good luck to you too .....
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That is simply called politeness and respect.
You could at least respect the time I have spent to try to help you, in a language that is not my mother language.
And by the way, you can also tell to your friends of FB that the advise to switch to Lantus was given by someone not living in the USA, but in France, so under the same cascade law as in the U K.
 
Capoo said:
That is simply called politeness and respect.
You could at least respect the time I have spent to try to help you, in a language that is not my mother language.
And by the way, you can also tell to your friends of FB that the advise to switch to Lantus was given by someone not living in the USA, but in France, so under the same cascade law as in the U K.
Click to expand...
I do respect your time and your comments - I thanked you for some of your points but again you have to understand my circumstances and also that there are no definitive rules about treating a cat for Diabetes - you can't DICTATE to me what is best ... every cat is different ... it may be that Caninsulin is the best for Smiffy as she is well on it so far and I can't find a reason to change just yet ... that is not to say that I wouldn't rule it out in the future ...... somebody just posted me to say that her cat didn't do well on Lantus and she had to swap to Vetsulin (Caninsulin). I am not going to change something that seems to be working for her at the moment ....

I understand now that English is not your mother tongue so perhaps you are not able to comment with the same subtlety as others and so it comes across as dictatorial so I have to make allowances for that so I am sorry if I have misinterpretted anything you have said .....

This is about Smiffy and I would like to bring this back to her now ........
 
Last edited:
Looby & Smiify said:
I do respect your time and your comments - I thanked you some of your points but again you have to understand my circumstances and also that there are noe definitive rules about treating a cat for Diabetes - you can't DICTATE to me what is best ... every cat is different ... it may be that Caninsulin is the best for Smiffy as she is well on it so far and I can't find a reason to change just yet ... that is not to say that I would rule it out in the future ...... somebody just posted me to say that her cat didn't do well on Lantus and she had to swap to Vetsulin (Caninsulin) so I am not going to change something that is working for her at the moment ....

I understand now that English is not your mother tongue so perhaps you are not able to comment with the same subtlety as others and so it comes across as dictatorial so I have to make allowances for that so I am sorry if I have misinterpretted anything you have said .....

This is about Smiffy and I would like to bring this back to her now ........
Click to expand...



I didn't DICTATE to you to switch to Lantus! Please re-read my message number 13, I was just given advises IF YOU want to switch from Caninsulin to Glargine.

And you're right: each cat is different. But ALL the cats have nearly the same metabolism, and NONE of them are able to deal with high quantities of carbs. That is proven by vets, by professors, by scientists,.....

And yes, all of these posts are about Smiffy............
 
Capoo said:
I didn't DICTATE to you to switch to Lantus! Please re-read my message number 13, I was just given advises IF YOU want to switch from Caninsulin to Glargine.

And you're right: each cat is different. But ALL the cats have nearly the same metabolism, and NONE of them are able to deal with high quantities of carbs. That is proven by vets, by professors, by scientists,.....

And yes, all of these posts are about Smiffy............
Click to expand...
I wasn't referring to the Lantus .... you said that dry food IS NOT AN OPTION - please read the head of the thread where I explained at length about her eating habits ....... she is on a low carb dry food forumated for Diabetic cats and 100% protein treats .... for the moment that is the best I can do for her .... dry food IS an option for her at the moment and for the time being is the only option so please try to understand that ...... I know you care about Smiffy but I care about her more ........ please read the information I posted about Smiffy ........... this is not about you and me .....
 
Sorry for not replying earlier but when you tagged me it didnt show up because there isnt a space between my name and tag before it so I didn't get a notice I was tagged. When they show up in blue the person is successfully tagged.
I can't convert your numbers because im used to the system we use in the states. without a spreadsheet I can't tell if the numbers are high or low so i wont give advice that way.
Instead I would like to share my experience with the insulin you are using and hopefully that may help you understand it a little better or at least how it can effect cats.
My cat Gizmo was diagnosed on March 9 2016. He fell ill very quickly and vomiting was the main issue. He will be 16 soon. I had no idea that cats could have diabetes. Along with diabetes he had a very bad infection. They wanted to keep him but I had already spent $500.00 on tests meds etc and couldnt afford anymore of a vet cost. I explained I had done sub q fluids before etc and was confident I could care for him at home. The vet ASSURED me that this insulin was the only option and my cat would be fine. The next 20 days were a nightmare. The vomiting stopped but that was all. His numbers were all over the place. The first week started 2 units twice a day. During this time he laid by the water bowl almost all the time other than using the litterbox. The urination and eating did not ease up at all. After showing the vet the tests numbers for the first week he said move to 3 units which I did. That night he went hypo but I did not know what that was because the vet only said go buy karo syrup rub it on his gums if he starts falling over etc. The vet did not explain to me how serious a hypo is and how it can kill your cat or how to treat it properly or when to get to the vet office. The next day I went back to 2 units without asking the vet and then i called and explained what happened. He agreed go to 2 units. I went back end of that week for another blood test to make sure the infection was gone and i explained that nothing had changed. The numbers were still all over the place. The vet also said only feed twice a day but i could feed whatever i wanted because he was under weight. Well the hunger my cat had it was impossible to feed twice a day he would start chewing on anything he could get to and it wasnt even food. I explained everything to the vet what food change i had made how many times i was feeding and that i needed to try a different insulin. I got the lantus and within the first couple of days he was not laying on the floor in one spot anymore the urinating excessively started to slow down and how hungry he was tapered off. I still feed small amounts because it is easier for him. Gizmo also had neuropathy in his legs. He could not even get on the bed or a chair anymore without assistance. Now he can get on a chair or bed without assistance. The change in insulin, and feeding the smaller meals really has made a turn around for my cat.
If your goal and you really need to ask yourself this what is your goal for smiffy and her diabetes? do you want to try and achieve remission or just bring her numbers into safe range? if you want to try for remission you need to start forming a plan with your vet and changing insulin is the first step along with food. can you get the low carb dry food over there? or will she eat the homemade http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood
Here is another option for you. I understand about the uk protocol on switching insulins. Since your new vet seems to be very open about educating in feline diabetes you can share my data and history of my cat battle with diabetes with her and I am sure others on here would be willing to do the same thing. I started out with the same insulin you are using before switching which is with I am offering. I think if she started seeing data it may help.
 
I've sent you a private message so we can get your spreadsheet up and going.

Look in the upper right corner of this webpage, where it says Inbox.

When there a red flag over it, the message is ready for you to read it.

Use the right mouse button to click on the flag and select Open in a new tab.
(What browser are you using - Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome, or something from Apple?)
 
Hey you girls .... got a preshot number tonight of 12.9 - getting better! That's below the renal threshold too ... really pleased with that ..... now here's one of the problems ... she has only had a few mouthfuls of her tea so I am going to have to follow her upstairs armed with a treat and her bowl to try to get her to eat more so that I can shoot her ... the testing has made her cautious of me .... will be back in a sec ...... so she has eaten enough in the bedroom so I gave her her shot ... she hardly noticed ... she is now settled down for the night under the chair her favourite spot .... she may come down to eat a bit more as she knows I leave the food out for her so that if she goes low in numbers she can snack but I can't get to her to test her again ..... I will try if the opportunit arises but I don't want to put her off eating if she needs to ...

I'm telling you this as it happens so that you have a better idea of what I am up against the little monkey!
 
Last edited:
BJM said:
I've sent you a private message so we can get your spreadsheet up and going.

Look in the upper right corner of this webpage, where it says Inbox.

When there a red flag over it, the message is ready for you to read it.

Use the right mouse button to click on the flag and select Open in a new tab.
(What browser are you using - Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome, or something from Apple?)
Click to expand...
As you know I am in the UK so I am not on line for long at this time of the day ..... I am on line at our time 3pm til 6.30 if that would suit you if you could find out what the time difference is? I really really appreciate your help with this
 
scoobydoox said:
Sorry for not replying earlier but when you tagged me it didnt show up because there isnt a space between my name and tag before it so I didn't get a notice I was tagged. When they show up in blue the person is successfully tagged.
I can't convert your numbers because im used to the system we use in the states. without a spreadsheet I can't tell if the numbers are high or low so i wont give advice that way.
Instead I would like to share my experience with the insulin you are using and hopefully that may help you understand it a little better or at least how it can effect cats.
My cat Gizmo was diagnosed on March 9 2016. He fell ill very quickly and vomiting was the main issue. He will be 16 soon. I had no idea that cats could have diabetes. Along with diabetes he had a very bad infection. They wanted to keep him but I had already spent $500.00 on tests meds etc and couldnt afford anymore of a vet cost. I explained I had done sub q fluids before etc and was confident I could care for him at home. The vet ASSURED me that this insulin was the only option and my cat would be fine. The next 20 days were a nightmare. The vomiting stopped but that was all. His numbers were all over the place. The first week started 2 units twice a day. During this time he laid by the water bowl almost all the time other than using the litterbox. The urination and eating did not ease up at all. After showing the vet the tests numbers for the first week he said move to 3 units which I did. That night he went hypo but I did not know what that was because the vet only said go buy karo syrup rub it on his gums if he starts falling over etc. The vet did not explain to me how serious a hypo is and how it can kill your cat or how to treat it properly or when to get to the vet office. The next day I went back to 2 units without asking the vet and then i called and explained what happened. He agreed go to 2 units. I went back end of that week for another blood test to make sure the infection was gone and i explained that nothing had changed. The numbers were still all over the place. The vet also said only feed twice a day but i could feed whatever i wanted because he was under weight. Well the hunger my cat had it was impossible to feed twice a day he would start chewing on anything he could get to and it wasnt even food. I explained everything to the vet what food change i had made how many times i was feeding and that i needed to try a different insulin. I got the lantus and within the first couple of days he was not laying on the floor in one spot anymore the urinating excessively started to slow down and how hungry he was tapered off. I still feed small amounts because it is easier for him. Gizmo also had neuropathy in his legs. He could not even get on the bed or a chair anymore without assistance. Now he can get on a chair or bed without assistance. The change in insulin, and feeding the smaller meals really has made a turn around for my cat.
If your goal and you really need to ask yourself this what is your goal for smiffy and her diabetes? do you want to try and achieve remission or just bring her numbers into safe range? if you want to try for remission you need to start forming a plan with your vet and changing insulin is the first step along with food. can you get the low carb dry food over there? or will she eat the homemade http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood
Here is another option for you. I understand about the uk protocol on switching insulins. Since your new vet seems to be very open about educating in feline diabetes you can share my data and history of my cat battle with diabetes with her and I am sure others on here would be willing to do the same thing. I started out with the same insulin you are using before switching which is with I am offering. I think if she started seeing data it may help.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply scoobydoox ..... it is quite late in the evening here in the UK so I will reply properly when I go on line tomorrow ..... I appreciate your time ....... just one thing that I am sure you already know - you have to multiply my UK readings by 18 to get your equivalent numbers (tiresome for you) ... the preshot number I got this evening was 12.9 which is even better than yesterday and so would be 232 for you ...... it is by no means ideal but it is gradually going down now it would seem so heading in the right direction ..... her numbers when she was first diagnosed were in the 20s (one reading was 24 which is 432!) so she has come a long way .......

As I say I will read your post properly tomorrow ..... nite nite

As I say
 
About 5 or 6 hours time difference. Are you about 11:26 pm now?

(Note: since last fall, when the board was hacked, my profile is corrupted and I can post only every 7 minutes. It has not been the webmaster's priority to resolve this.)
 
Last edited:
BJM said:
About 5 or 6 hours time difference. Are you about 11:20 pm now, or 12:20 am?
Click to expand...
@BJM you posted this at 10.26pm UK time, we are on BST (daylight savings) so an hour different from GMT.

Looby & Smiify said:
Hey you girls .... got a preshot number tonight of 12.9 - getting better! That's below the renal threshold too ... really pleased with that ..... now here's one of the problems ... she has only had a few mouthfuls of her tea so I am going to have to follow her upstairs armed with a treat and her bowl to try to get her to eat more so that I can shoot her ... the testing has made her cautious of me .... will be back in a sec ...... so she has eaten enough in the bedroom so I gave her her shot ... she hardly noticed ... she is now settled down for the night under the chair her favourite spot .... she may come down to eat a bit more as she knows I leave the food out for her so that if she goes low in numbers she can snack but I can't get to her to test her again ..... I will try if the opportunit arises but I don't want to put her off eating if she needs to ...

I'm telling you this as it happens so that you have a better idea of what I am up against the little monkey!
Click to expand...
@Looby & Smiify the more you test the more it will become part of her routine, she just needs to understand that. Any chance you are able to shut her in somewhere while she eats so you are not chasing her around the house to give her her shot? Cappuccino now has to be locked in another room to eat to ensure she isn't eating the other cats food and they don't steal hers, she took to it a lot better than I thought but then she is still quite food orientated which makes it easier.
 
I was trying to determine how many hours different the UK is from Ohio, USA.
Given what you just posted, you're about 4 hours later than me right now. I looked up a time zone chart in Google.
That means if Looby and I want to work together. on her spreadsheet, my 10:00 am will be her 2:00 pm.
That'd be a good time for us to work on the spreadsheet on the weekend, when I'm not at work.
 
BJM said:
I was trying to determine how many hours different the UK is from Ohio, USA.
Given what you just posted, you're about 4 hours later than me right now. I looked up a time zone chart in Google.
That means if Looby and I want to work together. on her spreadsheet, my 10:00 am will be her 2:00 pm.
That'd be a good time for us to work on the spreadsheet on the weekend, when I'm not at work.
Click to expand...
@BJM I am ready to work on the spreadsheet at about 3.15 my time .... I a not around before then .... it's just the anxiety condition that I have that has got me into this bad routine ..... it would take too long to explain .... are you about then? I will log in to find out .... I use Firefox ..... I hope this works ...... I really appreciate you trying so maybe next weekend woud be better if this doesn't work for you? Let me know what you think .... that would be about 11.15am your time today or next weekend? I don't work .... I have not left the house for five years ........
 
Last edited:
Alexi said:
@BJM you posted this at 10.26pm UK time, we are on BST (daylight savings) so an hour different from GMT.


@Looby & Smiify the more you test the more it will become part of her routine, she just needs to understand that. Any chance you are able to shut her in somewhere while she eats so you are not chasing her around the house to give her her shot? Cappuccino now has to be locked in another room to eat to ensure she isn't eating the other cats food and they don't steal hers, she took to it a lot better than I thought but then she is still quite food orientated which makes it easier.
Click to expand...
We have a completely open plan tiny house where the only room I can shut off is the bathroom .... we have two tiny tiny bedrooms - I sleep in the back with the cats (!) and the door has not been closed for years ...... it has all sorts of things hanging on it for a number of lack of space issues ... I am not trying to be difficult really .... the house is so small .... and so cluttered since I have been ill and not able to tidy it ... DH has introduced lots of things I would never have agreed to if I were well .... I just keep the peace!!! I have already taken up half the space of our only table downstairs with all of Smiffy's Daibetes stuff ....
 
Alexi said:
Glargine is Lantus so the Lantus users would be able to help you with that, you do need to be testing regularly with Lantus as it stays in the body and needs dose adjustments a bit more frequently than with Caninsulin, the risk is you lower Smiffy's numbers too far and run into problems. The stickies in the Lantus forum have some useful information which may help you decide if that is a better insulin for you.
Click to expand...
OK I will have a look ........
 
scoobydoox said:
Sorry for not replying earlier but when you tagged me it didnt show up because there isnt a space between my name and tag before it so I didn't get a notice I was tagged. When they show up in blue the person is successfully tagged.
I can't convert your numbers because im used to the system we use in the states. without a spreadsheet I can't tell if the numbers are high or low so i wont give advice that way.
Instead I would like to share my experience with the insulin you are using and hopefully that may help you understand it a little better or at least how it can effect cats.
My cat Gizmo was diagnosed on March 9 2016. He fell ill very quickly and vomiting was the main issue. He will be 16 soon. I had no idea that cats could have diabetes. Along with diabetes he had a very bad infection. They wanted to keep him but I had already spent $500.00 on tests meds etc and couldnt afford anymore of a vet cost. I explained I had done sub q fluids before etc and was confident I could care for him at home. The vet ASSURED me that this insulin was the only option and my cat would be fine. The next 20 days were a nightmare. The vomiting stopped but that was all. His numbers were all over the place. The first week started 2 units twice a day. During this time he laid by the water bowl almost all the time other than using the litterbox. The urination and eating did not ease up at all. After showing the vet the tests numbers for the first week he said move to 3 units which I did. That night he went hypo but I did not know what that was because the vet only said go buy karo syrup rub it on his gums if he starts falling over etc. The vet did not explain to me how serious a hypo is and how it can kill your cat or how to treat it properly or when to get to the vet office. The next day I went back to 2 units without asking the vet and then i called and explained what happened. He agreed go to 2 units. I went back end of that week for another blood test to make sure the infection was gone and i explained that nothing had changed. The numbers were still all over the place. The vet also said only feed twice a day but i could feed whatever i wanted because he was under weight. Well the hunger my cat had it was impossible to feed twice a day he would start chewing on anything he could get to and it wasnt even food. I explained everything to the vet what food change i had made how many times i was feeding and that i needed to try a different insulin. I got the lantus and within the first couple of days he was not laying on the floor in one spot anymore the urinating excessively started to slow down and how hungry he was tapered off. I still feed small amounts because it is easier for him. Gizmo also had neuropathy in his legs. He could not even get on the bed or a chair anymore without assistance. Now he can get on a chair or bed without assistance. The change in insulin, and feeding the smaller meals really has made a turn around for my cat.
If your goal and you really need to ask yourself this what is your goal for smiffy and her diabetes? do you want to try and achieve remission or just bring her numbers into safe range? if you want to try for remission you need to start forming a plan with your vet and changing insulin is the first step along with food. can you get the low carb dry food over there? or will she eat the homemade http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood
Here is another option for you. I understand about the uk protocol on switching insulins. Since your new vet seems to be very open about educating in feline diabetes you can share my data and history of my cat battle with diabetes with her and I am sure others on here would be willing to do the same thing. I started out with the same insulin you are using before switching which is with I am offering. I think if she started seeing data it may help.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all that information ....... my experience with Caninsulin has been completely different .... Smiffy was very ill (thought she was dying) and had diarrhea so we took her to the Vet and we put her on a dry food for her tummy which cleared up in a couple of days and she was put on 2 units of Caninsulin twice per day and two meals per day ..... within a few days her clinical signs were better ... no varatous hunger or thirst and her excessive peeing stopped ........ but she was still hiding upstairs ......

A few days later once her diarhea had stopped we gradually introduced low carb dry food (Hill's m/d) and followed the two meals per day.

I noticed that she was hungry but persisted ..... then she had a couple of hypo episodes and the Vet first saw was reluctant to adapt her treatment to what I felt suited her so I sacked him and changed to Vet Roberta who agreed with me to let Smiffy graze during the day on her diabetic dry food and I insisted that the dose be dropped to one unit twice per day ...

Since then she is back to her nomal cheeky self and going outside and sleeping in her bed and not hiding anymore .... we have got our Smiffy back ...... her coat is lovely and her eyes bright and she is playing again, talking to me and going for walks ..... so it is difficult for me to argue that she is on the wrong insulin ...... if I thought she would benefit from changing I would ask Roberta to change to Lantus but to be honest there is no sign to me that it is not agreeing with her ...

I appreciate the time you have taken to tell me about your story and it sounds harrowing and I am pleased you cat is doing well now ..... I have also come across several girls here and on Facebook who have said that their cat has either gone into remission on Caninsulin or that in one case at least Lantus didn't agree with them so they changed to Caninsulin and their cat thrived much better ....

In other words I think at the moment Caninsulin is OK for Smiffy ... I need to colllect more data ..... the question I have really for my Vet is if I should increase the dose to 1.5 units.

I have given my Vet the catinfo.org website to look at and I have read most of the articles there several time thank you ...

I am gradually taking more readings and BJM is going to try to set up a spreadsheet for me and for you all to see ....

I don't think I can show my Vet other people's experience of Caninsulin not being suitable as there are probably just as many good stories about it out there - I would have to prove that Caninsulin is not making Smiffy better but it IS at the moment but thank you for the offer
 
@BJM I so don't know how to use this website yet ... don't know how to alert you that I am here if YOU are? I have looked at the spreadsheet ... thank you so much .... now what do I do? I'm so used to Facebook ... don't know if you are there or not ..... my husband reckons you are going to lead me to google docs? Are you there? Should I go to my inbox and message you that I am here?
 
I've actually set up a draft of a spreadsheet for you.
You won't be able to do anything with it, though, until you set up a Google account.

Step 1: obtain a Google account
Go to www.Google.com
There should be an option to create an account or register, possibly with an icon in the upper right corner.
Once you've created it, you are logged in. Stay logged in while you continue these instructions.
Be sure to save your password someplace where you can find it again.
 
BJM said:
I've actually set up a draft of a spreadsheet for you.
You won't be able to do anything with it, though, until you set up a Google account.

Step 1: obtain a Google account
Go to www.Google.com
There should be an option to create an account or register, possibly with an icon in the upper right corner.
Once you've created it, you are logged in. Stay logged in while you continue these instructions.
Be sure to save your password someplace where you can find it again.
Click to expand...
I have set up a google account and messaged you .... I have got it on a tab at the top of my computer ... it has given me a new e-mail address? Wasn't expecting that ...... how will I find it once I have closed the tab? Or shall I just shut up and wait for your instructions?!!!
 
Hello @BJM are you there? The google account is still open I think and on a tab at the top of my computer - will leave it there ... why has it given me a 'new e-mail address'?
 
Click on this link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R_59fglhOiat7xIFOkqPrqwd7PnScQwrH6rR62WWRcc/edit
and use the menu to
File, Make a copy
This will save a copy of your spreadsheet to your own Google Drive account

It gave you a new e-mail address in Google's gmail system. Record that address and password where you can find it again.
As to why it did that, at some point it may have asked you for an e-mail address and you didn't give yours, so it gave you one.

-Remember I can only post every 7 minutes because the message board software corrupted my account last fall.
 
Last edited:
BJM said:
About 5 or 6 hours time difference. Are you about 11:26 pm now?

(Note: since last fall, when the board was hacked, my profile is corrupted and I can post only every 7 minutes. It has not been the webmaster's priority to resolve this.)
Click to expand...

Wow, what a hassle that is. Not very considerate of the webmaster, that's how many months ago????
 
Capoo said:
Please, DO NOT tag me anymore in your post!

I am really fed up with rehearsing and rehearsing always the same thing.
And I'm also not happy at all to see my comments posted on Facebook without my consent.

So, please, just forget me.....

Good luck for the future!
Click to expand...
C'est vraiment domage que l'on ne peux pas etre des amis ici ......... J'ai passee une annee a l'Universite de Grenoble et je parle assez bien le francais
 
@BJM thank you so much for your help ...... I can update her spreadsheet every day now and it helps me to try to test her too ... I wonder if I can get the spreadsheet on my iPad and edit there?
 
It can be done on tablets. you need to download on your tablet google drive and google sheets in the app store once both are downloaded just go to the google drive click on the spreadsheet and off you go you also need to put gmail on the ipad and enter the email addresss password you made. once it is all synced then you just go to google drive to access the spreadsheet and edit
 
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