Skinky. Update. Cancer most likely.

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aw thanks everyone. some good info and great support from all of you. I put an order in for the akray, will take a few days. Nancy and Scotty: yeah, today she is clogged up in that nose. poor thing. it's random/cyclical, it'll be clear for a while and then not. she HATES the baby booger thing, i sometimes get afraid of her reaction when I squeeze, i think it goes right into her brain, so i take it easy with that, but think i need to use it every now and then. If I was her, I'd gather all my strength and claw me to death in my sleep. syringe, needles, pills, booger ball. when i bring up the occasional possible URI/cloggyness etc., the vets all just nod their head and say, understandable, it's the tumor or whatever in her nose. i can't wait till fri, i'll give her the convenia and she'll get a little better, but she is NOT fighting this infection (her lymphocites and neturcils were way out of wack). If I could regulate the insulin i am sure it would help her fight the infection but it so often comes down to WHAT IS THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF FOOD I can have in her before a shot? we go into this cycle and if i try to jam three syringes of food into her and then keep stabbing at her ear only to get the E13 errors - well this is when she does want to die. Plus i don't know that i can do every twelve hours with my random doctor appts and with how long it can take to get food into her and get a proper blood count. but yes, as someone pointed out, i'm thinking if i can maybe even get the drop of insulin into her twice a day, maybe one unit at one point and then .25 at another point? i know it's not "protocol" and board protocol might involve asking a vet, but for all the vets, and myself included, the more important thing is getting the food into her and if the steroid helps with inflammation, that would be the second focus thing. it's not that i want to neglect the insulin/diabetic component, it's just that if i try to be consistent with it, it doesn't work for either of us...and it's not from lack of trying on my part. truly the worst thing is when i'm in commando mode and i'm really trying to do all of this and i see this look in her eye and she wants out. so trying to find the balance is tricky. but maybe getting a monitor which needs less blood and is therefore less stressful for her is a step in the right direction.

got a surprising call from the vet mobile owner today just checking up on skinky. he was surprised that she is still alive and that i haven't PTS sleep yet. we were discussing some things. he said the sedation and aspiration really would be a waste because it would be 50/50 or less that we actually sample the cells that we needed to sample. the thing to do is a sedation/biopsy, but I don't know how they could reach the tissue in her nose. previously the vet had suggested cutting her eye out. this guy said maybe with tweezers up the nostril or through the mouth but i don't think that will work....so in some ways I think I can understand why the CT scan. it's still very frustrating because there's still no concrete diagnosis on her. also the sedation/biopsy wouldn't show if there's anything growing behind the eye. anyhow, i'm still on the "skinky strong" thing because i think the stronger she gets i'll have more chance of a vet willing to take more of a chance on her and do maybe an xray. not sure how we can get a tissue sample w/o going thru the eye.

This vet mobile owner was encouraging me to regulate her insulin as well. oh gosh, such mixed messages. i told him how it's best if i can just syringe small amounts of food into her throughout the day, he said that's fine for the administering insulin, that it doesn't have to be half can all at once before insulin. i don't know what to do. Manhattan cat vet, the one i really like, warns me that i'm better to give no insulin out of fear of risking hypoglycemia, although i believe she felt i'd be very safe w/ .25 or .5 insulin once or twice a day...but i don't know how far that will go with regulating her, especially with lantus.

the lantus i have is old too, used from a local person who had to put their cat down, but expiration is 2016 and it's been refrigerated the whole time...

anyhow, i do think she is better today than last week. i know we are going to have continual ups and downs, but i'd say she is more on an up swing. :)
 
There is NO minimum amount of food before shooting, per se. If her glucose is up over 300 mg/dL on a human meter, giving a small dose of insulin (ex 0.25-0.5 units), even if she doesn't eat, will help bring it down. And bringing down the glucose level may actually improve her appetite. IF you have been regularly giving insulin at a specific dose that works well when she is eating, you would need to adjust the dose downward, for safety.
We really need you to list the glucose numbers when you get them.
Do it like this:
AMPS, test number for morning pre-shot or AMBG test number if you just test without giving insulin
+time since shot/morning test, test number
ex +3, 205 means that 3 hours after the morning test, with or without shot, the glucose was 205
And so on.
It'll help us give you better feedback with regard to insulin dosing.
 
I don't know whether this will help to reassure you a little, Laura, but during the height of Saoirse's pancreatitis flare she was on Lantus and I fed her a tiny amount every hour (timed feeders helped). It worked well for her. I did do BG spot checks during the cycle (her numbers were high-ish so not too many).

Sending prayers for you both.

((((Laura and Skinky))))
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I still think without the CT it's hard to say if this is cancer or not. If you could get a culture of any drainage, that may tell alot if it is an infection. See these pics of what a tooth infection can do (sorry if the pics are graphic), looks a lot like what's going on in your cat: https://www.google.com/search?q=tooth root abscess cat&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

They -might- be able to see an abscess if they took dental/facial x-rays.
 
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I still think without the CT it's hard to say if this is cancer or not. If you could get a culture of any drainage, that may tell alot if it is an infection. See these pics of what a tooth infection can do (sorry if the pics are graphic), looks a lot like what's going on in your cat: https://www.google.com/search?q=tooth root abscess cat&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

They -might- be able to see an abscess if they took dental/facial x-rays.

oh my gosh! those poor beautiful animals! yes, some of that does look like her, but it emanated from the bridge/side of her nose...
she continues to go in all of these cycles. last night she was SUPER congested, I hear it in the back of her throat. That side of her nose kept draining mucous, which I actually thought might be a good thing. I have this strange notion that all of her snoogers go into that "pocket" because often there is no drainage from her nose. anyway, not sure if she does have a super bad upper respiratory virus that comes and goes or what. gave her the AB injection one day early today. got a lot of mucous out of her nose yesterday. after 3 or 4 poops on Tuesday she hasn't had a bowel movement. she seemed VERY uncomfortable last night. gave her gas-x, cerenia shot and peptic ac. she just seems so congested in her head and back of throat, but in addition to that i know she has these gastric pains. we go on and off the Hills AD. Too high carb for her i think, so eventually i try to switch but i always go back to it. I'm cutting it now with sweet potato baby food, wellness turkey no grain, cat sure and a bunch of vitamins. but the more i try to feed her, she can get gassy and i see the expansion in her tummy. today i'm backing off and she looks much more slender, not really a good thing for an anorexic cat, but she seems to feel just a little less uncomfortable. have a water bowl right next to her sleeping head. 1/2 unit of lantus earlier, have held off on steroid injection. i just don't think we are ever going to get out of this cycle. but she is purring and cuddles up with me so much at night. i wish i knew the end game, so to speak. my back is killing me so much from up and down and picking her up, I wouldn't mind two shots and being put down. Maybe I am denying her.

As for the dental, i got a 1400 dollar price for the dental xray and anesthesia in nj, and quite frankly once they see her i'm not even sure if they would go thru with it. the saturday vet appt was SUPPOSED to be for dental, but first she had to see a vet and he wouldn't advise going forward w/ dental, so that day was a waste. I still maintain that she has been worse than this. the last vet saw that the redness around the tooth had abated and still didn't think that it was a dental thing. I'll see the vet again next wednesday and see where we are at with things. Maybe a take home culture kit? I feel that the longer she seems to defy the initial impression that she's a goner, the more curious and likely my vet is to try other things with her. As a last resort, I could turn to the vet mobile vet and see if he would revisit his suggestion of taking out her eye to access and clean out whatever is going on in her nose. it just seems extreme and would be a bit of guess work w/o the right diagnostics and i'm not sure if it would be mean or a life saver...

very sad and tired today and sore. :(
 
It has to be hard for you to see her go through all this. It's tough when there isn't a definitive answer to what is happening with her, if it's something treatable or not, and how long to continue. Even if it is just an infection, it's hard to say if she does have it drained if her body at this point will even tolerate the anesthesia. Year ago, I had an almost 20 year old cat (with many co-morbidities) that we chose to PTS when she developed a tooth root abscess, she wouldn't have survived surgery. From what your cat has gone through, however, she seems like a little fighter.

You might ask if the vet will send you home with a couple culturettes. Culturing some of that mucus from her nose might give some insight into what is happening, or at least some treatment that can increase her comfort.

Take care
 
Still praying for you and Skinky every day! Now, I will pray for a Valentine's Day miracle! Hugs to you and scritches to Skinky!
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There is also a fungal infection that can happen in cats, Cryptococcosis, that can cause swelling at the nasal bridge and lots of respiratory symptoms. I'd imagine they can culture for this as well. I believe they can do a blood test for antibodies. Treatment would include strong antifungals.

http://catexpert.blogspot.com/2014/07/cryptococcosis-in-cats.html
Hi Meya,

Yeah I've been treating her for that just in case...i got a compounded liquid fluconazole for her. THIS is what I was HOPING it was...i know it is supposed to take a very long time. Most of the vets highly doubt that it's this fungus. I'll revisit when I see the vet. A lot of her mucus came out (for now) but she still doesn't like to eat, it seems to give her a lot of gas. Last night she sounded very asthmatic. I think she might also have a food allergy. She continues to lose hair on her chest, but it seems to be primarily on the side and area where the AD food drops on her. .No pooping since I think Tues or Weds, which I"m sure is making her uncomfortable. It's just so much. Fix one thing, something else comes undone. She can still fight me though when i'm syringing her or trying to blow her nose. Her hind legs were weak before and although not the greatest now, strong enough for her to jump down from a bed that's approximately 32 inches off the ground. But today she's not drinking water again and I can see that she's dehydrated. Yes, giving subqs. Off for a doctor appt. I'll see how she is when I get back. :(
 
she HATES the baby booger thing, i sometimes get afraid of her reaction when I squeeze, i think it goes right into her brain, so i take it easy with that, but think i need to use it every now and then.

I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly but just in case, I need to point out that when using the nasal aspirator it shouldn't be in her nostril when you squeeze it. You only insert it after you have squeezed the air out of it... then after inserted, you release to cause the suction.

Hoping your own doc appt went well today!
 
((((Laura & Skinky)))), We are thinking of you. Haven't heard any updates in a while and hoping that Skinky is more comfortable than she was when you last wrote. Sending lots of healing thoughts and prayers for your girl,

Ella & Rusty
 
((((Laura & Skinky)))), We are thinking of you. Haven't heard any updates in a while and hoping that Skinky is more comfortable than she was when you last wrote. Sending lots of healing thoughts and prayers for your girl,

Ella & Rusty
Hi Linda,
Thanks for checking in. Not sure what to say about how she's doing. I would say that her swelling has gone down. She can still hop over the tub. She actually ate, on her own, some Fancy Feast liver and chicken. That was this morning. It hasn't replicated itself. I got a new blood monitor which measures .03 for the blood and it's SO much easier to take her BG readings, which have been high, 500 range....although last night she registered a 177.

The bad is that she still seems pretty listless. It's increasingly difficult for me to physically care for her, although I'm supposed to be getting a home health aide this week and that might help a bit. I've been waiting for that to go through before I take her back to the vet, so the aide can carry Skinky (I'm really way too young to be talking like this btw...!!). I thought she was going to die in my arms this morning. I was telling her it is ok to go. Her breathing was so slow. And then for the heck of it I open a FF and she eats a little. But very little, like a quarter of a can if that.

She looks sad. It's just tough to make a decision to PTS when she actually has reduced swelling and ate on her own a little and because it's become physically inconvenient for me. Doesn't seem right. So that's where we are. Same old really...
 
Well, I'm still praying for Skinky and you. I'm glad she ate some on her own. And that 177 was a better number. I am keeping you two in my good thoughts and prayers and hope the home health aide is an animal lover and helps you quite a bit with her. Hugs.
 
Hi Laura,

Sorry for not posting on your thread for the past few days (Saoirse's pancreas is acting up and she's got a dental booked for Thursday so I'm even more fretty about her than I usually am). I just wanted to let you know that even if I haven't posted, I'm still keeping you both in my prayers.

I can't get over how brave and how much of a battler Skinky is. I'm glad that the new glucometer is making testing easier. I hope that the home health aide will make a very positive difference for you.

((((Laura and Skinky))))
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Hi Laura,
I, too, hope that the home health aide will be a real help to you. It is amazing how Skinky is able to bounce back. It shows how much she loves you (and wants to take care of you).
We are keeping you and your girl in our thoughts and prayers. You both are very brave.
:bighug::bighug::bighug:

Ella & Rusty

P.s. glad that your new meter is working well. That must be a relief.
 
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