Site Veterinarian

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Sylvia Sheaffer

Member Since 2019
I don't know who the site Veterinarian is, but who ever it is, is not correct on the amount of protein in Fancy Feast Pate. It's 10% protein, not 40%. I just ordered 2 cases of Crave, and that is 40 % protein. Please don't give this whole web site wrong information. I spoke to the company on the phone today.
 
The information you received is because they calculate the moisture into it. Here's the specs from Purina's website for one of the Fancy Feast pates.
Crude Protein (Min)
11.0%

Crude Fat (Min)
4.0%

Crude Fiber (Max)
1.5%

Moisture (Max)
78.0%

Ash (Max)
3.5%

Taurine (Min)
0.05%

As you can see, other than moisture, the protein is far higher than the fat and fiber.

Now, here's the same information from the Crave website for one of their pates:

Crude Protein (min.) 12.00%
Crude Fat (min.) 6.50%
Crude Fiber (max.) 1.0%
Moisture (max.) 78.00%
Ash (max.) 3.50%
Taurine (min.) .07%

You can see that they are nearly identical.
 
There is no site veterinarian. I believe you are referring to the vet behind catinfo.org who created the cat food list that is so often shared here. If you have not done so, I would encourage you to visit her site and and read about commercial cat foods, specifically about the different ways the nutrition information can be calculated. The best way to get the information is the percentage of calories that come from protein, fat and carbohydrates which is known as the metabolizable energy (ME) profile (and mg of phosphorous per 100 kcal). The only cat food company I know of that actually publishes that info is Weruva. For the cat food list, Dr Pierson contacted every one of the companies to get that information.

You can also contact a company and request it, if you wish. You have to be very specific in requesting "the percentage of calories that come from protein, fat and carbohydrates which is known as the metabolizable energy (ME) profile" (and "the mg of phosphorous per 100 kcal") and even if you are, some companies will not provide it or will say they don't have that information. There was some discussion a couple of years back about whether Fancy Feast had changed the formula for their foods since the food list was updated, so I personally reached out to Purina about Fancy Feast Classic Chicken Feast, and here is the information they provided (which you will see matches the food list):
Fancy Feast Classic Chicken
M.E. from Protein 40%
M.E. from Fat 56.9%
M.E. from Carbohydrates 3.1%
Phosphorus 429 mg/100kcal

I think this is a case of you not having all of the information or an understanding of how this information is calculated. It is not a case of Dr Pierson giving out wrong information. I find that it is a good practice to do research on something like this or approach it by asking about something that does not seem correct before accusing someone else of giving out bad info.
 
Juls and Billy said:
The information you received is because they calculate the moisture into it. Here's the specs from Purina's website for one of the Fancy Feast pates.
Crude Protein (Min)
11.0%

Crude Fat (Min)
4.0%

Crude Fiber (Max)
1.5%

Moisture (Max)
78.0%

Ash (Max)
3.5%

Taurine (Min)
0.05%

As you can see, other than moisture, the protein is far higher than the fat and fiber.

Now, here's the same information from the Crave website for one of their pates:

Crude Protein (min.) 12.00%
Crude Fat (min.) 6.50%
Crude Fiber (max.) 1.0%
Moisture (max.) 78.00%
Ash (max.) 3.50%
Taurine (min.) .07%

You can see that they are nearly identical.
Click to expand...
I thought diabetic cats are to have 40% protein?
 
Sylvia Sheaffer said:
I thought diabetic cats are to get a minimum of 40 % protein? Does Fancy Feast or Crave give them that requirement?
Click to expand...
The values on the can are including moisture. The values everyone on here reference and the ones that are on the food chart are calculated with the moisture removed. That is why it says 12% protein on the can and 40% protein on the chart. Higher protein is better yes, but the more important factor is that it is less than 10% carbohydrates
 
Sarah&Soph said:
The values on the can are including moisture. The values everyone on here reference and the ones that are on the food chart are calculated with the moisture removed. That is why it says 12% protein on the can and 40% protein on the chart. Higher protein is better yes, but the more important factor is that it is less than 10% carbohydrates
Click to expand...
So, I guess Fancy Feast and Crave are ok? I am still confused by that chart. And, what about withholding food from George from 10pm-7am, and approx. 3pm-7pm?
Sarah&Soph said:
The values on the can are including moisture. The values everyone on here reference and the ones that are on the food chart are calculated with the moisture removed. That is why it says 12% protein on the can and 40% protein on the chart. Higher protein is better yes, but the more important factor is that it is less than 10% carbohydrates
Click to expand...
George does Not get anything except Fancy Feast. Maybe a few "Cat & Kitten" Orijen hard, but he is not crazy about it. Can you tell me if I'm withholding food at the right times?
 
Last edited:
Sylvia Sheaffer said:
So, I guess Fancy Feast and Crave are ok? I am still confused by that chart. And, what about withholding food from George from 10pm-7am, and approx.
Are those times ok to withhold food from George?
George does Not get anything except Fancy Feast. Maybe a few "Cat & Kitten" Orijen hard, but he is not crazy about it. Can you tell me if I'm withholding food at the right times?
Click to expand...
Do you know of a soft food w 40% protein
Sylvia Sheaffer said:
So, I guess Fancy Feast and Crave are ok? I am still confused by that chart. And, what about withholding food from George from 10pm-7am, and approx. 3pm-7pm?

George does Not get anything except Fancy Feast. Maybe a few "Cat & Kitten" Orijen hard, but he is not crazy about it. Can you tell me if I'm withholding food at the right times?
Click to expand...
 
Sylvia Sheaffer said:
So, I guess Fancy Feast and Crave are ok? I am still confused by that chart. And, what about withholding food from George from 10pm-7am, and approx. 3pm-7pm?

George does Not get anything except Fancy Feast. Maybe a few "Cat & Kitten" Orijen hard, but he is not crazy about it. Can you tell me if I'm withholding food at the right times?
Click to expand...
All of the fancy feast pates and roasted/flaked/chunky varieties are okay for diabetic cats. The dry food is likely too high in carbs, although I do not know specifically about that brand.

As for when to feed, it does somewhat depend on the kind of insulin you’re using but the short answer is that it’s really only necessary to withhold food two hours before shot time, that way when you test your cats blood sugar it is not influenced by food.

The best place to post your questions about food and feeding times is the main forum, where more people will see it and be able to give you advice
 
Sarah&Soph said:
All of the fancy feast pates and roasted/flaked/chunky varieties are okay for diabetic cats. The dry food is likely too high in carbs, although I do not know specifically about that brand.

As for when to feed, it does somewhat depend on the kind of insulin you’re using but the short answer is that it’s really only necessary to withhold food two hours before shot time, that way when you test your cats blood sugar it is not influenced by food.

The best place to post your questions about food and feeding times is the main forum, where more people will see it and be able to give you advice
Click to expand...
I thought I did post it in the main forum. George is getting 1 1/2 U of Lantus, every 12 hours. I cannot test George, and he would NEVER COME EAT FOR ME, IF I DID. So, is the eating more important?
 
Sylvia Sheaffer said:
I thought I did post it in the main forum. George is getting 1 1/2 U of Lantus, every 12 hours. I cannot test George, and he would NEVER COME EAT FOR ME, IF I DID.
Click to expand...
Sylvia Sheaffer said:
I thought I did post it in the main forum. George is getting 1 1/2 U of Lantus, every 12 hours. I cannot test George, and he would NEVER COME EAT FOR ME, IF I DID.
Click to expand...
So, is the eating more important?
 
Sylvia Sheaffer said:
I thought I did post it in the main forum. George is getting 1 1/2 U of Lantus, every 12 hours. I cannot test George, and he would NEVER COME EAT FOR ME, IF I DID. So, is the eating more important?
Click to expand...
This is the “community and off topic” forum. Here is a link to the main health forum

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/feline-health-welcome-main-forum.28/

I also had one of those cats when I first started. With patience, persistence, and the right reward, I’ve found that cats are very trainable. I’ve seen several of your posts about why you choose not to home test so i will not push the issue, I’ll just say that not doing so nearly cost my cat her life and I am glad that I personally chose to persist with it
 
Sylvia Sheaffer said:
I thought diabetic cats are to have 40% protein?
Click to expand...
Sylvia, the confusion is from two different ways to measure it. The stats that include the moisture are simply listing the types by weight. That's why the moisture has such high numbers, but that's good, because our diabetic kitties need extra moisture. The Food Chart is defining the types by calories. Thus the Fancy Feast Pates have nearly 50% calories from protein, but only 11% protein by weight. It is a little confusing, yes, but the food chart done by Dr. Pierson does all the math and calculations for us. It really is a good resource for what to feed our cats.

As for the Orijen Cat and Kitten, that's the dry I used to feed my Billy. While it is less carbs than most dry foods, it's still 20% calories from carbs, which is a bit too high for a diabetic cat. If you can, wean your furbaby off the dry completely. If he likes something crunchy, my Billy loves freeze dried chicken cat treats. Crunchy, but no carbs, just chicken.
 
I have had 3 siamese cats w/ cancer. One seal point who was a male and had mammary and apocrine cancer, one Lilac Point who had carcinoma of the trachea, and Carlin, who was an all white male, saved from Hurricane Katrina. And, I live in PA. He had large cell lymphoma. They all had chemo., and I will NEVER PUT ANOTHER ONE OF MY CATS THROUGH THAT. I was selfish and wanted to keep my loved ones alive. And the Oncologist, Dr. Ann Jeglum, in Westchester, PA, is supposed to be one of the best in the Country.
 
Juls and Billy said:
Sylvia, the confusion is from two different ways to measure it. The stats that include the moisture are simply listing the types by weight. That's why the moisture has such high numbers, but that's good, because our diabetic kitties need extra moisture. The Food Chart is defining the types by calories. Thus the Fancy Feast Pates have nearly 50% calories from protein, but only 11% protein by weight. It is a little confusing, yes, but the food chart done by Dr. Pierson does all the math and calculations for us. It really is a good resource for what to feed our cats.

As for the Orijen Cat and Kitten, that's the dry I used to feed my Billy. While it is less carbs than most dry foods, it's still 20% calories from carbs, which is a bit too high for a diabetic cat. If you can, wean your furbaby off the dry completely. If he likes something crunchy, my Billy loves freeze dried chicken cat treats. Crunchy, but no carbs, just chicken.
Click to expand...
I give George Freeze dried chicken. He just drinks the juice. I never tried giving it to him dry. But, it doesn't sound like something George would eat. Do you not add warm water to the freeze dried chicken? I'm lucky, George and my other two cats do not like hard food.
 
Is it good that George is not drinking as much water as he used to? I have 2 other cats, and I was thinking Bailey is a diabetic also. He is overweight, but his diet has changed this past Sept. 6th, when George was diagnosed. George had lost about 5 lbs., and I knew something was wrong. Bailey has lost a little weight, which I'm sure is due to no hard food. He throws it up most times anyway.
 
Sylvia Sheaffer said:
Is it good that George is not drinking as much water as he used to? I have 2 other cats, and I was thinking Bailey is a diabetic also. He is overweight, but his diet has changed this past Sept. 6th, when George was diagnosed. George had lost about 5 lbs., and I knew something was wrong. Bailey has lost a little weight, which I'm sure is due to no hard food. He throws it up most times anyway.
Click to expand...
Am I looking on a dry matter basis, for the protein?
 
You may want to post an introductory thread over in the main forum. Sarah gave you the link up above. You can ask questions there and more people will see your post and be able to answer. This thread is in the Community-Off Topic section of the forum, and less people visit this section.
 
@Sylvia Sheaffer Here are some of your recent posts.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hard-food.223444/
Here is Sylvias feelings about home testing http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/insulin-checks.222387/
Your posts are often unclear what information you are seeking. When I've tried to ask what you are trying to find out, you are unable to clearly describe what you are looking for. Is English difficult for you to write? Is there another language you feel more comfortable speaking or writing? Please, we have members that speak other languages than English, and we try to be clearer in giving suggestions.

ECID. Every Cat is Different. ECID Every Caregiver is Different. The choice of how to proceed in treating feline diabetes with your cat is your decision. No one else's. The choice is in your hands. Please discuss any treatment options with your vet.

"You hold the insulin syringe, the choice is yours on when and how to dose your cat." We are giving you information such as the best insulins for cats based on vet journal articles.
Such as (2018) AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats
and (2015) ISFM Consensus Guidelines on the Practical Management of Diabetes Mellitus in Cats

"You are the one buying the food for George and deciding what to feed him." We are simply giving you other options, and often tell people to look for the Fancy Feast classic pate style, Friskies pate style or Nine lives cat food because those foods are low carb <10%. medium levels of protein, Because they are readily available across the country, lower priced, variety of flavors for our picky cats. A cat's natural diet in the wild would be eating mice and voles, small birds and snakes, Frogs and small insects. Not many grains - corn, wheat, soy,rice,beans, peas, potatoes, sweet potato, cassava, tapioca can be found in the natural foods that cats eat. And cats are not know for eating their vegetables either.

We are all volunteers. We are simply a group of people that currently have (or had in the past) our own diabetic cats. We are trying to share the information we have learned. We think this is a valuable resource for other people with diabetic cats. We try to see if what worked for one member may work for you and your George and suggest that in your posts.

Please let us know how we can help you better. I'm going to see if one of the moderators can move your post to the Feline Health Forum for you. @Marje and Gracie @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Wendy&Neko ( I think Wendy is out this week).
 
The thread has been moved to the Feline Health forum. (Wendy was only away a couple days).

There is no protein requirements for diabetic cats. On this message board ( and on Dr. Lisa Pierson's catinfo web site), the recommendation is to feed low carb. That means 10% carbs or less. As an aside, low carb food is also better for cats with cancer.
 
Please learn how to home test. If you are having trouble doing this, please ask us for help. You can learn how to do this, and it helps you follow what's going on.
 
Sylvia Sheaffer said:
I have had 3 siamese cats w/ cancer. One seal point who was a male and had mammary and apocrine cancer, one Lilac Point who had carcinoma of the trachea, and Carlin, who was an all white male, saved from Hurricane Katrina. And, I live in PA. He had large cell lymphoma. They all had chemo., and I will NEVER PUT ANOTHER ONE OF MY CATS THROUGH THAT. I was selfish and wanted to keep my loved ones alive. And the Oncologist, Dr. Ann Jeglum, in Westchester, PA, is supposed to be one of the best in the Country.
Click to expand...

You did a great jon with your siames, a job not anyone did but you d and for that should earn A Very Respect.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top