Silver AMPS 19.4 PMPS 13.1

[KittyMom777]

First time I've seen a yellow number preshot. Little nervous. Mel are you around? This ok. You know I changed food and am still on 1u BID.

OK. Breathe.....

Juliet

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Just go ahead and shoot his 1u. Then try to grab a couple spot checks tonight. I'll be watching for updates

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

[KittyMom777]

Just go ahead and shoot his 1u. Then try to grab a couple spot checks tonight. I'll be watching for updates

Mel and The Fur Gang

Ok will do. I can do a +2 and a +4 before bed. It's 6:45pm when I gave the 1u.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

That will work as most Lantus cats have onset (when the dose kicks in) around +3 so a +4 will tell you if he is going to drop fast or not. Most likely not but always a good test to grab is the one right before heading to bed. Just to give you peace of mind that you can sleep without worrying about Silver.

I know with Autumn that last test of the day can be the difference between a good night's sleep and one where I'm waking up every few hours to make sure she's okay.

I have my phone set to alert me when there is a new post here, so even if I'm not actually on the board I'll be watching for you to post.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

[KittyMom777]

Well I think we'll probably be fine. I picked him up to give him a cuddle and smelt insulin so I must have had a bit of a fur shot. Grrr just when numbers were coming down. I will still do the two tests tho and post.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Always good to test even when you think you have given a fur shot. Because you never know how much actually got in. Also, just as a reminder, never shoot again even if you are sure you gave a fur shot, because of the fact you don't know how much did or didn't make it in. You just take the lumps and wait until the next preshot.

And even after 4 years I still on occasion give a fur shot, they just happen. Somebody moves at just the wrong moment :roll:

Mel and The Fur Shot

 

[KittyMom777]

Always good to test even when you think you have given a fur shot. Because you never know how much actually got in. Also, just as a reminder, never shoot again even if you are sure you gave a fur shot, because of the fact you don't know how much did or didn't make it in. You just take the lumps and wait until the next preshot.

And even after 4 years I still on occasion give a fur shot, they just happen. Somebody moves at just the wrong moment :roll:

Mel and The Fur Shot

Thanks for the encouragement and reminder. Annoyed at myself tho :-(

Just think if I'd left him at 2u BID as my vet said - he would likely still be in the reds.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Or worse if he had gone too low while you were at work. <shudder>

Since I know you are following Voula and Lucy if you look at Lucy's spreadsheet see how her pink numbers slowly went over to yellow and now are slowly going over to blue? That's what we want to see Silver's do as well. Stay fairly flat but just start getting lower and lower overall not that race down from red to blue and then back to red again.

What Lucy is doing on Lantus is how Lantus is suppose to work. Too many times vets expect Lantus to work like the older insulins like NPH where it hits hard, and drops them fast and then wears off quickly or what is called an In and Out insulin in that you inject it, it does it's job and then gone by the next shot. They don't grasp that Lantus and Levemir are depot insulins and should not do those steep peaks and valleys, but be a fairly smooth flat curve because of the carry over from one shot to the next. Which really isn't their fault, they haven't been trained in using human insulins in cats. And for the most part both Lantus and Levemir are still considered to be off list use, just that research has discovered they work better than those designed for animals with the fast metabolism rate of a feline.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

[KittyMom777]

Or worse if he had gone too low while you were at work. <shudder>

Since I know you are following Voula and Lucy if you look at Lucy's spreadsheet see how her pink numbers slowly went over to yellow and now are slowly going over to blue? That's what we want to see Silver's do as well. Stay fairly flat but just start getting lower and lower overall not that race down from red to blue and then back to red again.

Mel and The Fur Gang

Yes, that's why I was interested in seeing her SS to see where I was aiming. Why don't the vets find out about Lantus before the prescribe it?

Been doing a "carpet sniff" in my living room and I see no sign of Silver having used the floor yet the litter trays have barely been used by either cat since I changed the trays on Tuesdsy night. The water bowl has barely been drunk either. Is it normal to drink much less when numbers lower?

Anything out of the ordinary has me worried right now. The other ps are in place.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

That's partly the lower numbers but mostly the lack of dry food. . The only one that drinks out of the water bowl here is the dog

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

[KittyMom777]

That's partly the lower numbers but mostly the lack of dry food. . The only one that drinks out of the water bowl here is the dog

Mel and The Fur Gang

Seriously? They get what they need from the wet food?

Just done the + 2 and it's 17.9. Why so much higher after two hrs? Maybe he got none of his shot. I seriously don't get this dance and the numbers he gives me. Will do a + 4 in a couple hrs.

 

[Critter Mom]

Mel and The Fur Shot

:lol:


Doing great getting the tests in, Juliet. Glad to hear that Silver's not as thirsty. cat_pet_icon :smile: It was the first improvement Saoirse showed when things started to improve for her.

 

[KittyMom777]

Thanks Aine. Yeah Silver seems good. I even think the Methyl b12 doing some good. He lies down all the time as his legs are so bad but I saw him sitting for a minute earlier tonight. That's new too. Hope it really makes a difference.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Possibly a food spike. Autumn when we first started dancing would spike over 100 pts. (US numbers)

Now she doesn't move barely at all with food.

Yes cats are designed to get all their moisture from their prey as they are originally desert creatures. So dry food keeps them constantly dehydrated they don't have much of a thirst drive.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

[KittyMom777]

I thought food spikes only affected the +1? I'm always trying to figure things out but I guess there's no hard and fast rule is there?

I know I'm a crazy cat lady - I'm highly allergic to cats but I love them so much I scratch my eyes out all night just so I can still hug my babies.

 

[tibbs5]

you're right Juliet. something you'll hear around here all the time ECID ...every cat is different. some of them don't follow the rules at all. lol. hope Silver is doing ok today.

 

[KittyMom777]

you're Juliet. something you'll hear around here all the time ECID ...every cat is different. some of them don't follow the rules at all. lol. hope Silver is doing ok today.

I think he's doing good today, thx. Would have been better without my fur shot tho! How is your baby doing?

 

[tibbs5]

[quote)="Would have been better without my fur shot tho! How is your baby doing?[/quote]

it happens to all of us. sometimes they just move at the wrong moment. we are doing ok...thks for asking. my kitty definitely doesn't play by the rules......

 

[KittyMom777]

+4 = 22.5. Hmmm guess that really was a fur shot then. I take it I still don't give any insulin til am shot right Mel? Will probably be a high AMPS as a result I'm thinking.

Tomorrow is a new day. Goodnight all.

Juliet and Silver.

 

[Voula]

Hi Juliet. I have read your posts and Mel's replies and I just want to say I understand your anxiety about giving insulin when the glucose reading is close to 200 as I have that anxiety too.

 

[Critter Mom]

Hi Juliet. I have read your posts and Mel's replies and I just want to say I understand your anxiety about giving insulin when the glucose reading is close to 200 as I have that anxiety too.

Me three, Voula, at first. I was simultaneously relieved and petrified to see yellow PS numbers.And again when the blue PS numbers started to appear. And then came the greens ... nailbite_smile nailbite_smile nailbite_smile

The good news is that all the BG data you collect will make it less scary because you will have a much clearer picture of Lucy's pattern of response to each insulin dose. Every spot check and curve you get will help to reassure you and keep Lucy safe. :smile:

 

[KittyMom777]

Hi Juliet. I have read your posts and Mel's replies and I just want to say I understand your anxiety about giving insulin when the glucose reading is close to 200 as I have that anxiety too.

Me three, Voula, at first. I was simultaneously relieved and petrified to see yellow PS numbers.And again when the blue PS numbers started to appear. And then came the greens ... nailbite_smile nailbite_smile nailbite_smile

The good news is that all the BG data you collect will make it less scary because you will have a much clearer picture of Lucy's pattern of response to each insulin dose. Every spot check and curve you get will help to reassure you and keep Lucy safe. :smile:

Silver doesn't seem to have ANY pattern. Yellow preshot number yesterday. Black today :-( upset.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

He will have a pattern, he just hasn't been playing this game very long. And more importantly you haven't been collecting data on him very long. Right now this is all new to you both. By the time you get to where Aine and I are in this dance, you won't blink an eye at shooting a green preshot. Well okay, the first time you shoot one, you'll be a nervous wreck and probably stab the poor cat every hour just to make sure everything is fine. I know I did. :lol:

I was a complete basket case with Maxwell, then I was a little more comfortable with Musette,except I was learning a new insulin with her. With Maxwell I had Lantus all figured out, Then with Musette who on Lantus broke every rule there was about being a good sugarcat, so she was switched to Levemir and started playing by the rules, except I didn't know the Levemir rules. She made me freak out all over again.

Because with Lantus I knew the curve was suppose to go..preshot, rise until around +3, slowly dip down to nadir around +6, surf for a couple hours and then slowly go back up again to preshot. So on a line graph it looked like a smiley face. What I didn't know was that on Lev the curve goes the other way. Preshot low, rise until around +6 and then drop back to preshot again so it looks like a bell or a frown. Now with Lantus a frown or bell curve is too much insulin, so I did things badly because I would reduce her thinking it was too much insulin and then she would sky rocket. Finally some wonderful ladies took me by the hand and taught me the rules of Levemir, so by the time Autumn and Cassanova came along both on Levemir I can look at a low green preshot and think OH PRETTY, and shoot. Because I know for the next 4-5 hours they are going to go up then back down.

Yes this dance is tricky, but it really isn't hard, it just has lots of steps to remember. Because not only do you have to learn the patterns inheritant in the insulin you are using (and they all have different ones) you also have to learn your own cat's patterns. It's like learning to read finger prints, no two are the same for person to person or even finger to finger on the same person. They share common markings but how those markings are arranged are individualized.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

[KittyMom777]

He will have a pattern, he just hasn't been playing this game very long. And more importantly you haven't been collecting data on him very long. Right now this is all new to you both. By the time you get to where Aine and I are in this dance, you won't blink an eye at shooting a green preshot. Well okay, the first time you shoot one, you'll be a nervous wreck and probably stab the poor cat every hour just to make sure everything is fine. I know I did. :lol:

Mel and The Fur Gang

I really really don't think I want to shoot green as I am not home in the day so won't be able to stab him every hour to check everything is fine. What will my options be then?? or even shooting low yellows???

Juliet

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Well that depends on what your end game goal is.

If you are trying for remission then you just have to pull on the big girl panties and take a leap of faith when you do shoot green, hopefully when and if he gets there he'll give you the first one on a weekend morning.

If you don't mind giving insulin for the rest of his life (and you might anyhow, not all go OTJ) then you will be shooting low yellows to high blues.

But honestly shooting greens when you get there isn't nearly as scary as it sounds. Okay that's not true the first time is terrifying. But if he has gotten there correctly after the first one or two, they won't phase you. Because by then you'll know Silver and how he handles each dose better than you know yourself.

In the beginning the curves have very steep drops, but as you fine tune the dose the curve gets flatter and flatter. What use to drop him 100 pts or more in 6 hours now only brings him down 25 pts or so (again US numbers as my brain isn't dividing by 18 atm). And its a gradual process of getting there. You don't just overnight have to shoot a green. First you are consistently shooting pinks, then yellows, then blues and finally greens.

And he will just hang in those green numbers with maybe a sprinkling of low blues.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

[KittyMom777]

Well that depends on what your end game goal is.

If you are trying for remission then you just have to pull on the big girl panties and take a leap of faith when you do shoot green, hopefully when and if he gets there he'll give you the first one on a weekend morning.

If you don't mind giving insulin for the rest of his life (and you might anyhow, not all go OTJ) then you will be shooting low yellows to high blues.

But honestly shooting greens when you get there isn't nearly as scary as it sounds. Okay that's not true the first time is terrifying. But if he has gotten there correctly after the first one or two, they won't phase you. Because by then you'll know Silver and how he handles each dose better than you know yourself.

In the beginning the curves have very steep drops, but as you fine tune the dose the curve gets flatter and flatter. What use to drop him 100 pts or more in 6 hours now only brings him down 25 pts or so (again US numbers as my brain isn't dividing by 18 atm). And its a gradual process of getting there. You don't just overnight have to shoot a green. First you are consistently shooting pinks, then yellows, then blues and finally greens.

And he will just hang in those green numbers with maybe a sprinkling of low blues.

Mel and The Fur Gang

My end game would love to be remission, however I wish I was home during the day to really allow that to happen.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Even just getting him regulated (preshots in the low yellows to high blues with nadirs in the low blues to double digits) can often times send them into remission.. Maxwell never saw green before he went into remission and has stayed there for 4 years and counting. It just one of those....wait for it



wait for it



wait a little longer



EVERY CAT IS DIFFERENT! (God you are so going to learn to hate that phase, but it is so true)


Mel and The Fur Gang