Sillci trying to walk - Vet visit update

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Dale

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Doesn't it make you hurt to see her try to walk? Gordon weighed 18 pounds when he came last year and he walked just fine.

She has an appt. Wed. for x-rays. I've started her on an arthritis product that Phoebe sent her (thanks Phoebe). She has lost 1 pound in 2 weeks (now 17.04 pounds) and her eating has slowed down. I know she's a candidate for hepatic lipidosis so trying right now not to change any foods and making sure the bedroom door is closed so no one else eats her food. She is peeing where she lays. Her poops are very hard and not many of them so will check on megacolon. Her vet records indicate she was 16# when she was 3 years old. At age 4 they put her exclusively on Hill's M/D dry and some canned so she's been very obese from an early age. Previous Vet says she should weigh 6 pounds !?!

Anything besides arthritis, megacolon I should have checked? Her a.m. bg was 155 this morning after eating some dry M/D last night.

UPDATE;

Spine is okay. Knees are terrible. Boney fragments, swollen areas. Doesn't think just taking off weight is going to be the answer although it has to help some. Vet thinks she's in constant pain which is why she takes tiny steps so no pressure on each leg for any length of time. Starting dasequin, getting pain shot, and steroid (I know we don't normally like steroids but if it helps swelling and some pain then I'll just have to watch her bg.), still trying to reduce weight. Re-evaluate in one month. Vet says we need to control pain; she doesn't feel like it's fair to Sillci to have her in daily pain. Suggests if we can't control the pain then it's more humane to pts. No, no, no! I'll research the drugs you all suggest and will discuss w/vet.
 
Re: Sillci trying to walk

OMG, I haven't seen anything that bad before. Sadie(GA) could barely walk from obesity when adopted but she got around a lot better than that.

The shakiness, do you think that's due to lack of mobility for years or could it be neuro in origin?

Could you do some range of motion exercises with her back legs or will she be too cranky for that from athritis pain?
 
Re: Sillci trying to walk

Jennifer, She's cranky when you lift her (may hurt?) or try to move her. She doesn't mind you messing with her front declawed paws but fusses some on the back ones. And the day I took this video she was very upset about her back right paw although as the day went on and even this morning she didn't fuss at all about me touching it. Possibly, if arthritis, that morning that particular leg hurt her. The product Phoebe sent has chondroitan, MSM, glucosamine, Omega acids, some herbs and is a product of Fosters & Smith. I have some B12 I could also give her if you think that might be of help also.
 
Re: Sillci trying to walk

I'm a huge fan of self warming mats and egg crate mattresses for athritic, senior, immobile and obese kitties.

Humans can get bed sores from not enough movement which is why in hospital care they are turned frequently, I believe every four hours. I'm no nurse, just going off what I remember from my in-laws' hospital stays.

Henry (GA), Sadie(GA), and Lilly Grace all have/had ortho beds for this reason. It helps with blood flow and the self warming mats keep their muscles from getting too sore, in my opinion. I get the beds and mats at Petedge.com for a really good price. The mat can go in the washer so it would be easy clean up for Sillci's accidents.

For Sadie, I kept her food very close to her so she wouldn't have to move much to eat. After she lost a few pounds we used some toys. But then after she lost a good deal of weight we learned she had heart disease. I know what you just went through with Dreamsicle so I hate to suggest it, but I would also have her heart checked. Obesity for that long could be hiding something.

The other thing that helped Sadie was the Tellington T-Touch massage therapy. I got the book second hand and learned it pretty quickly. It stimulates blood flow.

I probably have some extra mats around the house I can send you a couple if you'd like. I need only the one for Lilly Grace and my foster kitten's bronchitis is almost gone so he hasn't been using his as much.
 
Re: Sillci trying to walk

I do have the egg crate mattress under her. Since she doesn't get up to pee right now I have to wash her bedding every day and switch out things. I have her bed, as you can see, laying on the floor because she can't step up/down good or get out of crates good. I have one of the "self-heating" fuzzy for her. I also have heating disks and the little black kitty that you put it in to. I haven't used that yet but should probably start tonight now that I think about it. At least she can lay her front legs on it. I don't want to use a heating pad because I'm afraid she won't be able to move off it soon enough before it might burn her like what happened to Leah (GA).

Thank you for the offer of the mats. I'll order a couple extras today from your source you mentioned. Will put checking heart on my list for the vet tomorrow. Thank you.
 
Re: Sillci trying to walk

We had a shelter cat that was that bad. She lived in the treatment room for a while but people rushing around would trip on her because she would take a few steps and have to lay down, wherever she was (middle of floor, doorway) so she went on foster and came back light enough to be able to walk better and got adopted.

Are you going to do Xrays? With all that weight for so long, she may have some hip displasia or patellar luxation also.
 
Re: Sillci trying to walk

What do you all think about using a pain relievers (other than metacam)...that is, until the arthritis meds kick in?
 
Re: Sillci trying to walk

I was just thinking about Miralax. This way she wouldn't have to strain for a bowel and you mentioned her poops are hard.

You can ask the vet about Buprenex, but I have the feeling Sillci has lived with this a very long time and may sadly be used to the pain.
 
Re: Sillci trying to walk

That is very sad Dale. ((((Sillci))))

I can't see that pain relievers or B12 would hurt. Also wondering about her hydration given the dry food and hard poops. You might want to ask the vet about SubQs on her.

I invite anyone who wishes to help Dale financially with this vet visit (which it is sounding could be pricey), I invite you contribute for Sillci through FDMB Cats in Need. PayPal address is ennis93 AT att DOT net. Donations are tax deductible in the US. Dale agreed to adopt this cat sight unseen and without information about her condition.
 
Re: Sillci trying to walk

Hi Dale,
I'm glad you're getting x-rays. I've never seen a cat who acts so stiff and sore and am wondering whether there's something more than arthritis/obesity going on.

In the short time she was with me, her stools were normal and moist. I fed her only canned food and added water to make it soupy. She dived into her first meal with gusto then didn't show as much interest in food after that. She seemed a bit dehydrated overnight so I ran 100 ml Norm-R subQ into her before hitting the road Tuesday morning and that seemed to help. You might want to talk to your vet about supplementing with subQ, especially since she's eating dry and having hard stools. (I used Norm-R rather than LRS because I was uncertain of her liver status.)

She did use her litterbox 100% of the time she was with me, but I had it next to her. She was a trooper but I'm sure it wasn't easy for her. Hopefully what you're seeing isn't a sign of further deterioration.

Are you going to run bloodwork to check her liver enzymes?

You could also submit some fur samples to a lab for analysis to see if maybe she has some vitamin or mineral deficiencies.

As for arthritis pain, my drooler has gained much relief for her long-term hip dysplasia, spondylitis, and osteoarthritis by seeing an animal chiropractor and having massage therapy. A friend also took his dog to a holistic vet for accupuncture/aquapuncture with good success. I don't know whether they'd be equally successful for a cat, but it's a thought.
 
Re: Sillci trying to walk

> Anything besides arthritis, megacolon I should have checked?

How old is she again? I'd suggest getting a kidney panel done. Lower kidney function can cause dehydration, which can contribute to constipation. Also, if she's not getting around a lot, she may not be drinking enough.


> I do have the egg crate mattress under her. Since she doesn't
> get up to pee right now I have to wash her bedding every day
> and switch out things.

Gwyn lost the ability to walk after her last stroke (~18 months ago now). We have her on an egg-crate mattress (one of those with the 1-inch cones/valleys, not the newer ones that are 3- or 4-inches). We cut the egg-crate into four lengths, to make four separate pallets. Then we went to the store and picked up contractor garbage bags -- these are really heavy-duty bags that they use for collecting random pieces of wood and drywall, so they're really sturdy. Each pallet was then placed in a contractor garbage bag and duct-taped shut. Gwyn doesn't get up for the litterbox, either, but this way the pallets are clean and easily re-usable. We then put a bathtowel on top of the egg-crates, which makes it comfortable for Gwyn to rest on, as well as absorbing the liquid when there is any.

One thing we also do is, every couple hours, we carry Gwyn to the litterbox and hold her in position. If she wants to go, she goes; if she doesn't, well, at least it's a little exercise.

For things you need to wash that have urine in them, add a cup of white vinegar to the laundry in addition to whatever laundry detergent you normally use. That gets rid of the urine smell. If it's something like a pilow, I may use two cups. If there's urine on the floor, mop it up with the corner of a towel, then splash some white vinegar on the flood and mop it up with the rest of the towel. (If the urine's been there a while, I'll let it sit for 3-5 minutes.)

Some stores carry white vinegar in gallon jugs. Prices in my area range from $1.79 to $3.29 per gallon, so it can pay to shop around.

Also, not sure if Sillci is turning herself or not; we make sure that we rotate Gwyn every couple of hours as well (from lying on one side to the other), so that her risk of bed sores is minimised, and also to let any sweat / urine / water on her fur dry out.


> I don't want to use a heating pad because I'm afraid she won't be able
> to move off it soon enough before it might burn her like what happened
> to Leah (GA).

Yeah, I have the same concern with Gwyn. I do sometimes drape a t-shirt over her torso, to help keep her warm.

If you've any questions you think I may be able to help with, please feel free to PM me (I don't always remember to check the General Health board). Finally -- I'm so glad you've taken this precious feline in! She really deserved better than her old people, and I think what you're doing is wonderful!

-- Jean and her Gwyn
 
Re: Sillci trying to walk

That's very kind, Venita, for you to ask for donations but I think I've pretty well got this covered right now. All the kitties-in-waiting living at vets/foster homes need the monies to keep them safe until their adoption. So thank you, but I think I'm okay money-wise with her vet visit. And remember, she just had bloodwork done 2 weeks ago and everything was pretty normal.

I prefer not to be sub-q's until I can get the heart checked out. I do have the equipment/supplies to do them, just prefer to wait until the vet visit diagnosis tomorrow. I will put more water in her food like you suggest Agent J. I've changed her food and water dishes to very low edges since she lays down or on her side to eat. And they are now right by her bed. She has her litterbox but I also have puppy pads on the floor so all she has to do is walk about 3 feet to them and squat. This peeing where she lays has just started in the last couple of days.

Thanks for your ideas and suggestions. I'll make some changes tonight as you suggest in hopes of making her more comfortable and eventually out of pain and into normal kitty behavior.
 
Re: Sillci trying to walk

I don't know what type of litterbox Sillci has, but when Gwyn had movement troubles when she had a growth in her leg and after one of her strokes, we switched to this litterbox for toy/miniature dogs http://www.amazon.com/Purina-SecondNature-Dog-Litter-Pan/dp/B0019Z8ZV6/ref=pd_sim_k_3_img.

The lowered lip across the front is 12 inches across (the widest I've seen on any litterbox), which makes it easier to get in and out, and the box itself is larger than a normal cat-box, which allows for the cat to use as wide a stance as needed to keep herself stabilised without either stepping in used litter or peeing over the side. I'm a huge fan of these boxes for mobility-impaired cats.


For food and water, we make sure that Gwyn's bowls are tilted at about a 45-degree angle. That means she doesn't have to stretch her neck over the side of the dish and then down to get to the food. But it also means that she can push the food against the bottom of the bowl to help get it into her mouth -- so that she's not just pushing it farther away from herself like she would if the bowl was flat on the floor.
 
Re: Sillci trying to walk

Dale said:
What do you all think about using a pain relievers (other than metacam)...that is, until the arthritis meds kick in?
Click to expand...


Hi Dale

As you may know, I have a dog with liver disease who can't have any NSAIDs and he has significant lumbro-sacral pain (the U-shaped bone that supports the spine and sits in the back of the pelvis) so I've tried a lot of things and done a lot of research on non-NSAID pain relief. Unfortunately I have found --and the orthopedist I work with agrees with me -- that opioids don't work that well for day-to-day osteoarthritis pain (if that's what this is). It is certainly worth a try, and if nothing else you should make sure she gets a shot of buprenex after her x-rays are done because to take good x-rays you need to put the hips into an uncomfortable position. (I assume she'll be sedated for this.)

Other possibilities include ACL tears in one or both back legs. This is not a common injury in cats, as it is with dogs, but she is so morbidly obese she may be at higher risk. Fortunately cats often heal their own ACLs and don't need surgery as dogs do.

Spinal/LS pain such as my dog has is another possibility. To really diagnose it you would need advanced imaging but I haven't done that on my dog ... I don't plan to do surgery and his physical exam clearly shows that the pain is localized to that area.

Someone mentioned her leg trembling. I can't see it in the video, perhaps it's running too slow on my computer, but if that's so it could be due to pain or it could be an "intention tremor". These are the bane of neurologists because they certainly are neurogenic but don't appear to mean much. It happens very frequently in older dogs --- my dog started with this business about two years ago -- and occurs when the animal's weight is shifted off the leg. My dog will do this will all four legs and it's noticeable only when he is changing positions (getting up or leaning one way or the other before taking a step) or lifting his leg to pee.

Other drug thoughts: start Adequan injections. I haven't had a cat to use them on but many people here have found them to be of great help to their achy cats. Also, gabapentin and another drug called amantadine can be used for neuro and ortho pain. If you look them up, you'll see that gabapentin is an anti-seizure drug and amantadine is used for Parkinson's disease. For reasons that are unclear, they seem to also help with certain types of pain. According to the way they work, they really shouldn't work for orthopedic pain ... but they both do, in practice. My dog is on gabapentin and I've seen a big difference. Gabapentin takes up to 3 weeks to see results, amantadine may show results right away but works best in conjunction with another drug. Anyway, we can talk more about those if Sillci turns out to need longer-term therapy. In the meantime you can start with Adequan and see if an opioid (or synthetic opiod such as tramadol) might help.

Good going with the diet. I think this will really be the most important step.
Jess
 
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