Sick Kitty - who is on Lantus (diabetic and asthmatic)

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csmcvay

Member Since 2012
Good morning - I posted on the Lantus board but thought I would post here as well. Cleo started feeling bad last night - only symptom is lethargic. She had 2 bad asthma attacks yesterday and I had to give alberterol both times. I kept an eye on her all night and this morning she is the same. I took her glucose reading this morning and it was 215. I did not give her Lantus (1.5 units) because she won't eat, she did drink a little water. I really don't want to take her to the emergency vet because she almost died there about 2 months ago, bad experience. Her regular vet is awesome and knows how to handle her - she stresses extemely bad - and he knows her history. I've talked to him frequently. In the meantime if she doesn't eat, do I continue to skip her insulin? I don't know if her symptoms are the asthma (which is always possible) or something else. I'm sick about this and worried to death :(. Thank you. confused_cat
 
Connie,

I'm one-week new to having a diabetic kitty, so I may not be able to help much. Have you tried tuna juice or anything other than Cleo's normal food to convince her to eat? I can't advise you on dosing as I'm too new to this, but I suspect you'll feel a lot better (and therefore not pass additional stress to Cleo) if you can get her to eat something.

What little I know of dosing I learned from this board. I think you're wise to not dose Cleo until she starts eating again. Hopefully someone with more experience will check the board shortly and give you a better answer.

Christine
 
Hi, do you know if alberterol causes lethargy? Is that usual for your cat? Otherwise, wondering about cause of that...

Does she have any other known health issues? Ketone problems...?

Ways to tempt cats to eat include warming the food, trying new food, sprinkling food with something strong smelling like parmesan for example, tuna juice...

When is your regular vet available? Are you saying you've been in contact with him on the phone since this has happened?

Re giving insulin or not - and this is only my personal view (ie what I'd do with my own cat) - I'd hold off from giving insulin if a) the cat wasn't eating at all, AND b) the numbers weren't really high. If the numbers scooted up really high then I'd give my cat a much reduced token dose.

How is your cat now?
 
I posed onver on the Lantus TR board to gve tyou some help. More people post there than on the relaxed Lantus board. Do you have urine test strips to test your cat for ketones? Ketones would make a cat lethargic. You can buy urine test strips at any pharmacy. You can use either KetoStix or KetoDiastix.

Is there another vet ER that you can take your cat to in cse her condition worsens?
 
thanks everyone - i've never tested her for ketones before and she hasn't been to the litter box, at least this morning. But I guess I could run out to the pharmacy to try and get some - can't hurt. I did find a mobile vet that will come to the house on Sunday's by appointment, I may try that if she gets worse. I have my vet's cell phone number also and may call him later this morning - can't hurt to see what he recommends.

In regards to Albuterol, no the only symptoms with that are her heart will race a little for awhile and that's about it.

i did open a new cat of food that she doesn't get very often and rubbed some of the juice on her paw, she is cleaning it off now. I think she wants to eat, but just can't. Breaks my heart. 3rd time this summer she has been sick.
 
Try making the canned food soupy with water and slowly syringe feeding that into your cat's mouth. Use a oral (needle-less) syringe or pet feeding syringe. Most pet stores have pet feeding syringes and the pharmacy will have oral syringes made for children.
 
I hear baby food can be attractive to some cats. ( make sure of no onions )


I was looking up the albuterol for references here on site and it doesn't sound like the appetite issue is related from what I could find.
I hope your regular vet is available later this morning. Have you already called and left a message that you need them?

I would definitely get those ketostix and check that.

I'm sorry your baby is feeling so poorly. I hope you can get her to eat more.
 
I am going to run out now and get a syringe and ketostix as well as some tuna etc. but i'm going to keep a close eye on her and if she gets worse I will take her to the emergency vet. so if she has ketones, what do I need to do, or what does that mean exactly? still new to this diabetes thing. thank you!
 
If she has ketones, you will definitely want to get a hold of your vet. Those are nothing to fool around with.
Like you, I would be avoiding the place where you had such a bad experience.
The most difficult part is that there seem to be too many vets who don't know/understand about Lantus but you can't deal with
ketones by yourself.
That's why I would be checking with the vet I like, they may have an emergency phone number on a recording so you can find him
faster on a sunday.
 
Also see
Pet Diabetes Wiki: Ketoacidosis



What are Ketones?
Ketones or ketone bodies (acetone, acetoacetic acid, and beta-hydroxybutyric acid) are waste products of fatty acid breakdown in the body. This is the result of burning fat, rather than glucose, to fuel the body.

The body tries to dispose of excess ketones as quickly as possible when they are present in the blood. The kidneys filter out ketones and excrete them into the urine.

Should you care about ketones?
YES! If they build up, they can lead to very serious energy problems in the body, resulting in diabetic ketoacidosis, a true medical emergency. If the condition is not reversed and other systemic stresses are present, ketones may continue to rise and a condition known as diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) may occur. This condition can progress very quickly and cause severe illness. It is potentially fatal even when treated. Recognition of DKA and rapid treatment by your veterinarian can save your cat's life.

Signs of Diabetic Ketoacidosis (DKA)
Drinking excessive amounts of water OR no water
Excessive urination
Diminished activity
Not eating for over 12 hours
Vomiting
Lethargy and depression
Weakness
Breathing very fast
Dehydration
Ketone odor on breath (smells like nail-polish remover or fruit)
Causes of Diabetic Ketoacidosis (DKA)
Insulin dependent diabetes mellitus
Inadequate insulin dosing or production
Infection
Concurrent diseas that stresses the animal
Estrus
Medication noncompliance
Lethargy and depression
Stress
Surgery
Idiopathic (unknown causes)
Risk Factors for DKA
Any condition that causes an insulin deficiency
History of corticosteroid or beta-blocker administration
Diagnosis
Laboratory tests performed by your vet are necessary for diagnosis. Depending on how sick your cat is, the testing can be extensive (and expensive). Your veterinarian will determine what tests are necessary. At a minimum, testing is likely to include a number of blood tests and a urine test.
Treatment
If the cat is bright, alert, and well-hydrated, the cat will not require intensive care. Your cat will require insulin, food, constant access to water, and close monitoring for signs of illness such as vomiting, anorexia, and lethargy.

Treatment of cats who show signs illness require inpatient intensive care. The goal of treatment is to correct dehydration, electrolyte depletion, to reverse the high ketones in the blood and the metabolic acidosis that is present, and to increase the rate of glucose use by insulin-dependent tissues.

Veterinary care for DKA involves intravenous (IV) fluids, usually supplemented with potassium, monitoring by observation and urine and blood tests, and sometimes feeding by a tube. Treatment may involve a hospital stay of five days or more and often costs about US$2000. Without treatment, "sick" animals with DKA will die.

Testing for Ketones
Simple urine tests can detect ketones. This is done by collecting a urine sample and inserting a special dip stick into the urine. Some urine ketone strips detect only ketones while other types test for both glucose and ketone levels. Urine ketone strips will detect only some of the ketone bodies produced by the body, not all of them. Strip storage, handling, and testing procedures are similar to those used for glucose test strips. Strip test results are indicated by presence of color changes, indicating presence of ketones, either quantitatively (giving you a number for the ketone concentration) or by descriptive terms (for example, negative, trace, small, or large). False positives may occur if you are also using certain medications or vitamins, or if the strips have been handled or stored improperly.
 
I agree about testing for ketones. It would be a relief to rule that out.

I hope you get the ketone test strips. Please let us know what the test result is when you get one.
You might want to lay plastic wrap over the litter just in case you don't catch her in the box, maybe some of the plastic wrap will catch a drop or more of the pee.

You want tuna in water that has no soy in it. And baby food that is meat and broth only, with no onions or garlic.
I would be great if you could pick up a glucometer and test strips (cheapest from WalMart), as well, if you don't already have one. We can help you learn to test.

Please keep us posted.
 
I actually checked her blood this morning and her number was 215. Found some ketostixs, now if she will just pee :(
 
I spoke to my wonderful vet this morning and he said since her number was 215 she wouldn't have ketones in her urine. He said that because of the 2 asthma attacks yesterday he is pretty sure that is the reason she is acting the way she is. He said to keep monitoring her, try to get her to eat, and call him if there is any change. he knows how stressed she gets at the vet and because it puts her asthma into distress and her glucose numbers shoot up so high, he doesn't think emergency vet is a good idea for her at this moment, but of course if she gets worse she will have to go. Saying my prayers and will watch her like a hawk today. Thank you everyone!!
 
Some cats will get ketones without high numbers. I would stalk the litter box, and get a ketone test, anyway.
 
meanwhile, work on that eating issue.
Was she a dry food addict? If you have fortiflora to sprinkle on the food, that would be better than my next suggestion just to see if
she will eat something. I don't think you'll find it locally, I have to order it online.
But the second ( less desireable ) suggestion is to crumble one piece of dry on her food and see if that sparks her to eat.

Did you recently change all her food? I see you've been here since Aug 27, one month.
And had she been eating fine up until today? She ate yesterday?
Does she have a favorite?
 
because she is so skinny my vet has her on DM, canned and dry food, plus I throw in a little fancy feast cause sometimes she doesn't want to eat the DM. she ate a little bit last night and a handful of treats. but she won't touch the treats today so you know she is sick :(. I've bought all sorts of canned food, human tuna fish, clam juice, doesn't want anything, and she loves ham, but won't even smell it :(. But I got a syringe and will try to get some down her in a few hours, she is sleeping right now and I want her to get some rest if she can. She will see her vet first thing tomorrow. Plus I've got to do her morning inhaler dosage as well. Poor baby.
 
A lot of kitties love KFC......anywhere near you to pick up a chicken breast? Also, when it comes to ketones they can happen even with lower numbers.......Mishka always ran in the 100 range when she went DKA on me.
 
Well it doesn't look as though Cleo has Ketones - if I did the test correctly lol. I got a little bit of litter on one little corner of the strip, but regular urine on the rest. She pees on the side of the box so it is really hard to get right underneath her. I will try to do it one more time later today and of course, try to get some food in her too. Can't wait until we can go to the vet tomorrow a.m., will make me feel better to have her in more experienced hands. Or maybe I'll be lucky and she will bounce back. Thanks.
 
I'm glad the ketones showed negative. I would try to do another test, though, when you can. I use little plastic containers like a cleaned out Fancy Feast Appetizers tub that I just put under my cat's tail as he's peeing. I have to wait until he's actually in the process of peeing, and then put the tub under his tail.

Sending eating vines to Cleo.
 
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