Sick Kitty - metronidazole, and lab results

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Djamila

Djamila

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Sam's numbers are continuing to climb. He hit his first yellow number in two months this morning, so it looks like his flirtation with remission is over for now.

We went to the vet yesterday and initial results are no UTI (the lab test is still pending), dental resorption of two teeth, and metronidazole for the diarrhea.

So we're scheduling a dental to get the teeth removed. Other teeth all looked good.

I'm not sure if I should give the metronidazole or not. He had an awful round of diarrhea on 7/18, but yesterday was clear (no poop at all), and he hasn't gone this morning yet. I gave him SEB when the diarrhea appeared on the 18th, and he seems to be feeling okay, so should I give it to him? Or is that just the vet trying to be helpful and it's not really necessary?

They are running the full senior panel blood work, so I'll post those when they come back.

Thanks everyone, for sharing your thoughts on this!
 
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Sam stop going from one extreme to the next :confused: diarrhea to no poop! If you don't want to give the Metronidazole I was told S. Boulardii could help if Maury had diarrhea with his flare. Have you ever tried it? @Squalliesmom can probably recommend the brand she uses :)
 
I'm guessing he just skipped his poop yesterday because he had so thoroughly emptied himself out the day before! It was pretty bad. He's eating and drinking and well hydrated, so I'm guessing he'll produce something today. o_O

S. Boulardii is a probiotic, isn't it? He's already on one daily, but it might be worth trying that one going forward and see if it helps any better than the one he's using. He usually only gets this about once every other month, but getting it never would be nice too!
 
Think so, it's a yeast. But I think Lucy gives SEB, S.Boulardii, and a probiotic to Candy (civvie) when her IBS-D acts up. I tagged her above so she can clarify :).
After Maury's couple diarrhea and getting home from the Vet the first time, he didn't poop for like 24 hours either :smuggrin:
 
You can give s.boulardii in addition to the probiotic. My girl gets 1/2 capsule 2x daily with meals, or 1 capsule 2x daily if she's having a flare. SEB is great, but make sure you don't give it within two hours of any other oral meds as it can impede absorption. I usually give it with her lunch, when she's not getting any other meds. I wouldn't recommend SEB for long-term use, because it may also impede the absorption of some nutrients.

Did the vet do dental x-rays on your kitty? I ask because FORLS-resorptive lesions-can occur below the gumline, as well.

If the vet Rx'd the metronidazole I'd go ahead and give it. It is an antibiotic, with anti-inflammatory properties.
 
No dental x-rays yesterday. I'll ask about that today when scheduling the procedure. I'm taking kitty #2 for his annual exam today, so I'll have the chance to ask any follow-up questions about Sam as well.
 
Poor Sam! The absorption lesions can be painful and be enough to hike him up. I would get the dental done ASAP. .

My experience when Bubba has had diarrhea is that after it stops, he doesn't go for a day or two and the vet said that can happen and not to worry.

Fingers and Paws crossed for him. He'll come back down again. :bighug:
 
Attached is Sam's lab work. It looks pretty good to me, but then I don't really know what most of that means. :confused:o_O
 

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Yes, I was looking at Sam's blood work while we were waiting for the vet to come in and see Atty. Vet says it all looks good to him too, and that the urine test preliminary results are normal, so likely no UTI. Official results are due tomorrow, I think.

Atty got a full work up as well since he's had some excessive drinking and loss of energy lately. His BG is fine (vet laughed when I told him I test Atty sometimes, too), so vet ran blood screenings for kidney, thyroid, etc. etc... the whole deal. Also told me it wouldn't hurt if he lost a pound. How does a cat who only eats raw food end up chubby?!?! Oh, and he also needs a dental (He was due for it - nothing in particular wrong, thankfully!)

Sam isn't doing very well today. He got his rabies shot yesterday along with everything else, and that always wipes him our for a few days. He's lethargic and only eating or drinking when I bring him food. Thankfully he does both when I encourage him, but he's definitely not up for it on his own. I did manage to sneak in a ketone test and that's fine. And he did get up just now and come groom Atty since he smelled funny from the vet's office. Who decided that indoor only cats still need to get that stupid shot!?!? (it's the law in my state)

I'll be so glad when all of this is resolved and my kitties are both back to normal!

How was Meadow's echo? Do you have the results yet?
 
I expect this morning's yellow was from either a steep drop last night, or going low. He had a big drop to +3 last night. I would have gotten a +4 to make sure he had bottomed out.

Ugh on the rabies shot, so glad we don't have to do that. It seems to wipe out so many animals. I hope Sam gets over it soon.

From a quick glance, the b/w looks good for a senior. There is a Labs tab on the SS. It helps if you enter the values there, and is easier to compare across multiple blood works. It is trends, not values in the moment that are most interesting.

Metronizadole is fine for short term use and can really help.
 
Thank you so much, Wendy! I'll work on getting the data entered on the spreadsheet. I appreciated that the form had his last two panels, as well as the current one, so I'll be able to enter all of them.

And thank you also for the reminder about the +4. I forget sometimes that we're on a different insulin now since for the most part his patterns have been similar. But I don't know that for sure and should have been more cautious.

It's actually comforting to hear that his rabies reaction is pretty typical. I've been really worried about him today. It's unfortunate though that it's forced on so many pets unnecessarily!
 
Djamila said:
Yes, I was looking at Sam's blood work while we were waiting for the vet to come in and see Atty. Vet says it all looks good to him too, and that the urine test preliminary results are normal, so likely no UTI. Official results are due tomorrow, I think.

Atty got a full work up as well since he's had some excessive drinking and loss of energy lately. His BG is fine (vet laughed when I told him I test Atty sometimes, too), so vet ran blood screenings for kidney, thyroid, etc. etc... the whole deal. Also told me it wouldn't hurt if he lost a pound. How does a cat who only eats raw food end up chubby?!?! Oh, and he also needs a dental (He was due for it - nothing in particular wrong, thankfully!)

Sam isn't doing very well today. He got his rabies shot yesterday along with everything else, and that always wipes him our for a few days. He's lethargic and only eating or drinking when I bring him food. Thankfully he does both when I encourage him, but he's definitely not up for it on his own. I did manage to sneak in a ketone test and that's fine. And he did get up just now and come groom Atty since he smelled funny from the vet's office. Who decided that indoor only cats still need to get that stupid shot!?!? (it's the law in my state)

I'll be so glad when all of this is resolved and my kitties are both back to normal!

How was Meadow's echo? Do you have the results yet?
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Results of Meadow's echo should be in tomorrow. They can do the echo at my vet clinic but they send out the data to be interpreted by a radiologist.

Re rabies shot: I know what you mean about indoor only cats getting it. However, many years ago in two consecutive summers a bat got into my condo via some ventilation duct and was flying around everywhere, much to the amusement of my kitties at the time. Made me realize that there can be a rabies risk to indoor kitties even though it's a very small risk.
 
Tracey&Jones said:
My vet put a stop to all vaccinations when he got sick last year. Didn't even bring it up this year.
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Can it be waived in your state? Or is there no law about it there? I wonder if I could push more on that for next year?

Kris & Teasel said:
However, many years ago in two consecutive summers a bat got into my condo
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I cannot even imagine! I think I would run out screaming if something like that ever happened! :eek::eek::eek:
 
Djamila said:
Can it be waived in your state? Or is there no law about it there? I wonder if I could push more on that for next year?



I cannot even imagine! I think I would run out screaming if something like that ever happened! :eek::eek::eek:
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Yup! First time it happened I opened my eyes in my not very dark bedroom in the early morning hours to see it flying over my head in circles. I had to exert extreme self control to avoid losing it totally. The second year, my cats found it resting on the underside of a baseboard electric heater. Both times, the goal was to gets the cats out of the way, open patio doors and wave a broom to encourage the critter to exit.
 
Yowza! What a way to wake up!!!

For anyone who knows how to interpret lab results, they are now on his spreadsheet. I put the most recent results closest to the ranges, but I'm happy to swap and put it in chronological order if that's preferred. I also noticed that some of my vet's ranges were different than those on the spreadsheet, I couldn't find a Magnesium test or a Triglyceride test, so if those might go by a different name, let me know. There were a few things on the list that weren't on the spreadsheet, so they may just be called something different?
 
Looks like I had some beginners luck with pilling Sam this morning. This evening is not going so well. We have both retreated to our corners to chill out a little and then we'll try again. I've popped it into his mouth a bunch of times, and held his mouth closed, and rubbed his throat, and blown on his nose.....and he still manages to spit the dang thing out! Fear not friends, this is going to work...it's just a matter of time! ;):blackeye:o_O:smuggrin:
 
Djamila said:
Can it be waived in your state?
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I live in Alberta, Canada, and this is the second pet I have own that went off all vaccinations after a sever illness. I had a dog and Jones now. I was still able to renew their city licenses. Take them to the vet clinic. I don't know, when I brought it up once about Jones, she said not to worry about for now. And when it was his 1 year check up, she was only worried about his current conditions and it is flagged in their system he is past due for some of his shots. The rabies is a three years vaccinations so I think we have 1 more year on that.

No longer have any dogs, so no outside contamination from dog parks. The cats are all inside cats and don't go to a cattery. So I figured why worry about it.

Can't they titer test and see if they still show the anti-bodies? Isn't that good enough? I know a lot of pet owners are doing that here vs. the yearly vaccinations. Or is that only for dogs and rabies?
 
Hmmm.....good questions! I'll have to ask some of those next time I'm at the vet (which will be soon). We only get the 1-year rabies vaccine here since the 3-year is apparently even worse on pets, and we can't renew our pet licenses without proof of the vaccine. But maybe there is some way to waive it.
 
back to the dental thoughts....

when you get dentals, you want x-rays when there are absorptive lesions occurring. Teeth that look normal could be developing cracks
that aren't visible yet so you want your vet to be able to remove all teeth that are cracked, otherwise, you'll be right back sooner than later.
 
Oh, I forgot to post about that! Yes, they are doing an x-ray before the dental. It was already on the estimate when I picked it up today. And they are going to do one on my civvie too just to be sure he's okay because as you said, I'd rather not have to bring him back in sooner than necessary!
 
Djamila said:
But maybe there is some way to waive it.
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For my drooler the vet just put a note on file that any further vaccinations were not medically recommended due to her illness.

She got IMHA - which they think is caused by over vaccination. Go figure.:rolleyes: She went another 3 years without being vaccinated or titer tested.
 
LizzieInTexas said:
This is the method my vet taught me. I still use hubby but this method works. Vet would puff a breath in his nose to get him to swallow. The key is to drop the pill directly to the back of the throat.

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Wow! That looks so easy! Pill time in an hour, so I'll definitely be trying that!
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Also pill pockets work just use the smallest portion possible. They spike Gizmo's BG but the don't with most cats.
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That's good to know! I was worried that they'd be too high in carbs. If that video approach doesn't work, I'll try and see if a small amount of pill pocket will make it easier.
 
That's pretty much the same method I used for Maury who hates being pilled :oops:. I put the water in a bit quicker so the pill had less time to get a taste in his mouth. From my other stories, you know I've not been 100% successful :p
 
It totally worked to get the pill in, but he was having none of the water. That's the part that made him freak out. I'll need to work on my technique. Six more days to go. :oops:
 
Here is a list of states that exempt rabies vaccines. https://www.rabieschallengefund.org/states-with-medical-exemptions

Smokey was exempted because at the time it was due he was sick and my vet won't give vaccines if animal is not well. Later we decided to keep the exemption

Be forewarned-a lot of ER, kennels, boarding facilities will not accept an unvaccinated pet. The ER near me would not admit Smokey if he needed it unless they vaccinated him, which shouldn't be done if they are sick. They would only treat him as an office visit.

Google rabies vaccination exemption for your state, you should find something, print it out so you have proof it's a law.

I do vaccinate but don't license them since they are indoors only. Like Kris, I had bat in my house, rabies is present where I live. So for my babes protection they are vaccinated. When my cats turn 15, my vet stops the other vaccines.
 
Djamila said:
That's good to know! I was worried that they'd be too high in carbs
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Greenies Pill Pockets Canine Roasted Duck & Pea Allergy Formula Dog Treats. Use as small amount as possible. Like I said, they do affect Gizmo's BG. When I tried them, I rolled a small "empty" one up (smaller than a pea) and gave it to him, then I put the pill in similar size and gave it to him. I was thrilled with them until I took his next BG test. :banghead:

Djamila said:
but he was having none of the water
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Yong said:
Try putting the water in his cheek pouch
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Yep, try just a dribble in the side of the mouth. You can even hold their mouth closed and just push a few drops in the side then tilt the head back slightly. The water helps make sure it gets all the way down to the tummy and not stuck. When I have to pill by myself I have to wrap Gizmo up like a burrito. o_O:)
 
Marje, thank you so much!!!

Just got the labs back for Atticus, and looks like his kidneys are on the higher end of normal (I'll get the actual numbers when I go in next week).

Also, moved Sam's dental up to Wednesday, so he'll get that done before we leave for our giant road trip. I worry about him having enough time to recover before I throw him in the car for a five hour drive and a week in a strange cabin. But I also worry about him having those teeth in there with his numbers being somewhat stubborn these days.

Does that seem like the right decision? Is it enough time for him to rebound from the anesthesia and extractions before all the stress of travel?
 
Please don't squirt the water almost directly in like the person did in the video - that risks getting it into their nasal cavity as well as possibly aspirating it. Always give liquids and food from the side and let the cat do the swallowing part.

HUGS! I suspect the pilling will get easier when he gets used to it.
 
His labs look really good. Keep in mind that some numbers can vary during the day to a certain extent and so if you see a high or a low number, it might be something to just keep an eye on or it could be just high or low for that moment in time.

The reference ranges on the lab tab are for Antech and your vet uses IDEXX so you might want to update those reference ranges from your lab results when you have time.

Kidneys and liver look good; his urine specific gravity, creatinine, and SDMA all indicate normal kidneys at this time. It is not u usual for cholesterol to be high in a diabetic. I see it more often than normal numbers so I wouldn't get too concerned. I also wouldn't worry about his ALT and AST being low. His sodium and chloride are on the low end but stable with last year and his ratio is good.

I'd be pretty happy with those labs.

Question about his SS....you are missing the template tab which is important for future years, if you need it. At any time that you'd like me to add it back in, it's easy for me so just let me know.

Also....I use S. boulardii, too, as well as regular probiotic. Both my cats get Renew Life Ultimate Flora Adult 15b cfu, 1/2 cap bid. My male, Tobey, also gets 1/4 cap Renew Life S. boulardii bid because he had coccidia as a kitten which "can" but doesn't always predispose them to IBD later in life so I give him a little extra intestinal support even tho he has perfect poos :):)
 
@Marje and Gracie, Thank you so much for taking the time to look at Sam's labs! I've been so worried about him this week as his BG numbers have been going up and up, and I find it really reassuring to know that at least his lab work is good.

Thank you also for offering to add the template pages back into my spreadsheet. While I really hope that we don't need any spreadsheets in future years ;), I did go add the template page to our spreadsheet. I must have deleted it when we first started, not understanding what it was there for. I'll also get the ranges fixed on the lab page.

Do you know if the S. Boulardii or the Renew Life have a taste? Do you just mix them both into their food?
 
Nice start today. :cool: Glad that Marje weighed in for your Lab results:cool: and that they look good.

Not sure about the Renew Life having a taste or not. I use Florastor ( you can get it at CVS but, pricey , cheaper online) It does not have a bitter taste and I add it to the food. Another S. Boulardii is Jarrow but, they and MOS to it and it makes it bitter tasting and pilling is necessary.

Glad you moved his dental up and if he has simple extractions and doesn't require sutures, he should be fine to roll with your on your trip. If sutures are placed, he will need to return in about 1 week - 10 days to have them removed by a vet tech.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Nice start today. :cool: Glad that Marje weighed in for your Lab results:cool: and that they look good.

Not sure about the Renew Life having a taste or not. I use Florastor ( you can get it at CVS but, pricey , cheaper online) It does not have a bitter taste and I add it to the food. Another S. Boulardii is Jarrow but, they and MOS to it and it makes it bitter tasting and pilling is necessary.

Glad you moved his dental up and if he has simple extractions and doesn't require sutures, he should be fine to roll with your on your trip. If sutures are placed, he will need to return in about 1 week - 10 days to have them removed by a vet tech.
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Definitely not adding anything that requires pilling. We are having a hard enough time getting through this round of metronidazole! My skill level in pilling is low, and his willingness to take the pill is even lower. Maybe by the last dose we'll have this figured out! :rolleyes: That video really did help. It's still not as easy as it is for that vet, but I've at least managed to get it down him.

It was good to see a lower number this morning. He's been feeling so lousy lately, it would be nice if he could have a good cycle and give his body a little rest. I was going to raise his dose this morning, but chickened out when I saw a lower number. Still getting used to thinking in Lantus.

The vet said he'd be good to travel, that the teeth involved are the "easy" ones, although there is always the chance that the x-ray will show something additional needing to be done. It just makes me nervous since his last dental it felt like it took him awhile to get over the anesthesia and get back to his usual feisty self. Maybe a week in a nice cabin in the woods will be good for him though. Certainly calmer than our noisy urban condo!
 
Djamila said:
Definitely not adding anything that requires pilling. We are having a hard enough time getting through this round of metronidazole! My skill level in pilling is low, and his willingness to take the pill is even lower. Maybe by the last dose we'll have this figured out! :rolleyes: That video really did help. It's still not as easy as it is for that vet, but I've at least managed to get it down him.

It was good to see a lower number this morning. He's been feeling so lousy lately, it would be nice if he could have a good cycle and give his body a little rest. I was going to raise his dose this morning, but chickened out when I saw a lower number. Still getting used to thinking in Lantus.

The vet said he'd be good to travel, that the teeth involved are the "easy" ones, although there is always the chance that the x-ray will show something additional needing to be done. It just makes me nervous since his last dental it felt like it took him awhile to get over the anesthesia and get back to his usual feisty self. Maybe a week in a nice cabin in the woods will be good for him though. Certainly calmer than our noisy urban condo!
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Do you have a plan in place to keep kitties from escaping into the wilderness, Djamila?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Do you have a plan in place to keep kitties from escaping into the wilderness, Djamila?
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Not completed yet, but in the works. I've definitely been worried about that! The leading option is just to confine them to one room whenever we leave. The other option involves PVC pipe and netting to create sort of a double door situation. That one seems like a lot of work though!
 
I have the best kitty ever! Apparently he decided he'd had enough of the forced pilling. This morning when we sat on the floor to get the pill down him, he just reached down and ate it before I could even get him in position. He was of course rewarded with copious amounts of head scratches and kisses and treats to get that nasty taste out of his mouth. I don't imagine it will be that easy for all of the remaining days, but it was so nice to avoid at least one stress-session!
 
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