? Should I Stall? - Merlin's SS

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Wendy 17 and Merlin

Member Since 2020
I am new to all this. Would you please give me some guidelines to follow? Merlin had a few episodes of hypoglycemia with a bounce thereafter. How do I avoid this from now on? He eats wet food every 2-3 hrs (whenever he asks for food); when his appetite is down, he gets tempted with/gets ca. 30-50 kibbles of RC/Hydrolized Protein). He has chronic pancreatitis. For the last mo, he has more frequently regurgitated food (occ. vomit) despite daily Cerenia.


  1. For the last few days, PreShot values have been a little lower. This morning it was 155. I did not shoot. Was that correct?

  1. When I do not shoot, should I wait until the next regular scheduled time for the next shot? One should not give the next shot early, correct?
 
Hello and welcome!

Quick question about your spreadsheet: when you are testing urine, is that a glucose reading or a ketones reading? I'm guessing glucose?

For the last few days, PreShot values have been a little lower. This morning it was 155. I did not shoot. Was that correct?

155 is a lot lower than your other pre-shots, so it was good to be cautious. Under 200 is a general guideline when first starting out; once you get more data and more experience shooting lower and lower numbers, you can start to move that number down. For example, you have been shooting numbers like 206, 211, 218 in recent days, which is pretty close. Had the pre-shot been something in the 180's or 190's, it would have been a good opportunity to move your "no-shoot" number down a little bit. As it was, though, 155 was too big a jump to do all at once.

One other thing you can do when you hit a lower-than-usual number at pre-shot is to stall: don't feed, test again in 30mins. That will tell you what direction he's going-- if he's clearly headed up, you might feel comfortable shooting even if he isn't yet at your current no-shoot number, for example. The other thing that a re-test does is tell you if your first test was an error or a bad strip (doesn't seem likely in this case, but just something to keep in mind. If you suspect a bad strip, you don't have to wait 30mins to check, of course).

When I do not shoot, should I wait until the next regular scheduled time for the next shot? One should not give the next shot early, correct?

That is correct about not shooting early (unless you were wanting to change your schedule anyway, in which case a skipped shot presents an opportunity!).
 
This is a reply to Panic's earlier questions.

1. On the SS, it starts with urinalysis dipstick glucose only because I did not yet have the Relion Prime meter until 9-6-2020. I started measuring 9-6-2020 but have not yet entered all of the early data due to time pressure.

2. Merlin's history is shown in my profile/ Information.

3. I am using 10-parameter dipsticks (Mission brand) for urine that includes glucose and ketones. Merlin has never (in 1.5 years) been positive for ketones.

4. I am using the U-40 syringe and currently go to the 0.5 unit mark or less.

5. Merlin got PZI injections from 9-6-20 to 9-21-20 daily; but it was not always exactly every 12h and was in varying lesser amounts when values dropped low, or I skipped 1 shot totally. It was/is due to my lack of understanding. I am still learning what to do.

6. I keep a rigid time schedule q12hr since 9-25-20.

7. The 12-hr schedule is very difficult for me (I am not getting enough sleep, sometimes only 2 hrs, and my health is suffering). The vet got frustrated that I did not maintain a tight 12-hr schedule, kept changing the dose and, therefore, did not make progress per a higher fructosamine test (488 vs. 450) The vet had started me with 1.0 unit. I lowered it to 0.4 U or less because Merlin had a few episodes of low BG. I just do not know enough! Is giving insulin that way (irregularly) WORSE than not giving any? From the SS, which dose looks appropriate?

8. I looked into Lantus but found that (in addition to high cost) it also needs to be given every 12 hrs. Is there any benefit in my case?

9. Is there any insulin for cats that can be given q24 hrs?
 
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I'll see if I can address everything. :)

9. Is there any insulin for cats that can be given q24 hrs?
Unfortunately no.

8. I looked into Lantus but found that (in addition to high cost) it also needs to be given every 12 hrs. Is there any benefit in my case?
Lantus is actually cheaper than Prozinc if purchased out of Marks Marine Pharmacy in Canada. $165 for 5 pens that last 1-2 years, versus Prozinc $120 every 3-4 months. HOWEVER since you're saying you're having trouble staying on schedule I would recommend sticking to Prozinc unless something can change. Lantus is very very picky about consistency,, and Prozinc at least grants a little wiggle room. It really is important to try to stay as close to 12 hrs exactly but Prozinc at least grants you a 1 hour wiggle room IF NEEDED. I don't want anyone to look at that and think it's fine to constantly be an hour off because it's not. Can you explain your schedule to us, maybe we can help you out with the timing. Sleep is important, we need you to be getting enough!

This is the Prozinc Dosing Sticky, there are two dosing methods but you'll have to stick with Start Low, Go Slow right now. Review the parts about holding/increasing/reducing the dose, print them out if it's easier, this is how we determine when to move the dose around and by how much. You can also tag us for help and we can guide you along. Let's focus on the part about pre-shots:

How to handle a lower than normal preshot number when following SLGS:

Until you collect enough data to know how your cat will react, we suggest following the guidelines in the FDMB's FAQ Q4.4:
Q4.4. My cat's pre-shot level was way below the usual value. Should I give the injection?
A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines.
  • Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin.
  • Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options:
    • a.) give nothing
    • b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose)
    • c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value
  • Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.
  • In all cases, if you are reducing or eliminating insulin, it's wise to check for ketones in the urine.
  • Above the normal pre-shot value, give the usual dose, but if the pre-shot value is consistently elevated, it's a good idea to schedule a full glucose curve to see whether a change in dose or insulin is appropriate. In most cases, the target "peak" value should not be below 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L), and for some cats it might be higher.
Keep in mind these are general guidelines, and they should be personalized to your own cat's response to insulin once you have data and understand your cat’s cycles. If your experience is that your cat does not became hypoglycemic with a dose which is close to her usual, then personal experience should be your guide.

With experience, you may find that lowering these thresholds may work well for your cat. When you have reached that stage, the following guidelines are suggested for Prozinc users following the Start Low Go Slow approach:

If the preshot number is far below usual preshot numbers:
  • Do you need to stay on schedule? Then skip the shot.
  • Do you have some flexibility with your schedule? Then stalling to wait for the number to rise might be a good option. Don't feed, retest after 30-60 minutes, and decide if the number is shootable.
  • Repeat until the cat either reaches a number at which you are comfortable shooting, or enough time has passed that skipping the shot is necessary.
If the preshot number is near kitty's usual preshot numbers:

Look at your data to see what numbers you have shot in the past and decide what would be a safe, shootable number for your cat. Don't feed. Stall until kitty reaches the preshot number you've decided on and then shoot.

We usually don't suggest or recommend shooting a preshot number less than 90 mg/dL when following the SLGS Method. Remember that with SLGS, generally speaking, your goal is to achieve flat numbers that are greater than 90 mg/dL. However, let experience, data collected, knowledge of your cat, and availability to monitor help in making the best decisions for your cat.

So to summarize, cats below 150 should not receive insulin if you do not have much testing data, so that is going to be your no-shoot number. Between 150 and 200 you might give a token dose, delay the shot until later in the day (if it won't throw off your schedule too much), or skip altogether. You can also stall feeding for 15-20 minutes and re-test to see if the number is going up into shooting range. This "no-shoot" number will lower as you get more data, but for now stick with that. Also see that if pre-shot is unusually low for YOUR cat, a reduction is a good idea. For what it's worth, I don't think you did anything wrong skipping today with the 155, that was a safety call without much data.

Now I don't know how your work/home life schedule affects you, but we can't do much else without mid-cycle data. For all we know, Wendy needs a reduction. Or an increase. Or she's at an ideal dose right now. It's hard to say. Note that pre-shot tests are the LAST numbers to go down, so if Wendy's pre-shots are running in the 100-200s odds are she's dropping below 100 during the day. Those ar good healing numbers, but we don't know if she's dropping too much or not! Any time a cat drops below 90 they earn a 0.25 unit reduction. Getting some data during the day is ideal to understanding how she's responding. A good system might be to get a +2, +4, and +6 one day and a +1, +3, and +5 the next. Doesn't have to be exact, just get some tests to help you fill in the gaps throughout the week to paint a better picture of everything. We also recommend a +2 and "before bed" test every night cycle. Again, we don't know what your schedule is like, but ideally that's what you would do.
 
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Elizabeth (Panic), thank you for the detailed guidelines. I really appreciate all your effort and help. I decided to do as you asked and take some additional readings. I am so glad you urged me to.

Although he had been eating frequently and enough since the last shot, Merlin was hypo at +3 h (48 Relion, Vet meter 28) without showing any signs. I treated him with honey and food and rechecked at +4 (83) and +6 (146). No ketones. What should I do next when the usual dose is due? No insulin or reduced dose? Is a permanent dose reduction indicated?
@Panic
 
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