? Should I skip the p.m. injection

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Kelly and Buddy

Member Since 2018
Ahhhh, this cat is so confusing. If anyone sees this and could take a peek at his sheet I would be most appreciative. Given the fact that he has dropped dramatically on several occasions, I am hesitant to inject at 184 but I also don't want him running high. I am almost postiive the two high numbers in the fast few days are from him eating other food.

I hate to keep skipping doses but I just don't know how to navigate what's happening.

Any thoughts?
 
Yes, I will definitely monitor until I feel he is not dropping too low. I hope you're going to suggest I shoot because I just gave a .25 injection. For some reason, your response just popped up and I was afraid to wait too much longer. I'm hoping maybe a .25 dose might be one that I can feel comfortable doing am and pm.

Just curious about the syringe you use. I noticed you actually recorded a 1.125. Do you have syringes marked with anything more than 1/2 units? I struggle to judge where a .25 is so I can't imagine doing any of the other increments I see listed on many spreadsheets (like .1 and .3). Are there syringes marked in tenths that I haven't seen?
 
I use calipers. I use syringes with 1/2U hash marks but use the calipers to measure the dose. If you are interested I can post where to find info and I can find my post on how I got started.

Good job shooting. :)
 
Hi Kelly, looking over his SS I had a few observations.

It seems like a lot of his higher numbers are due to getting into higher carb food. On 7/29 PM cycle you didn't shoot and in the comments you said he got into another cat's higher carb food yet the next morning you didn't shoot again and then the PM cycle he was a green pre shot ( 88) and another no shoot, and then 4 more no shoots in a row. On 8/1Am he was 370 and again, got into the HC dog food but, you didn't shoot....(.maybe you couldn't monitor that cycle?) That PM cycle you shot the 282 with 1 unit and that took him 94 the next morning. It indicates to me that 1 unit is too high of a dose and a lot of his higher numbers are all carb induced.

Let's see what this .25 unit does and keep him out of the contraband and let's see if we can get 2 shootable numbers in a day with a lower dose.
 
I use calipers. I use syringes with 1/2U hash marks but use the calipers to measure the dose. If you are interested I can post where to find info and I can find my post on how I got started.

Good job shooting. :)

I use calipers. I use syringes with 1/2U hash marks but use the calipers to measure the dose. If you are interested I can post where to find info and I can find my post on how I got started.

Good job shooting. :)

I would love to see where you found the information and how you got started!! Thank you!
 
Hi Kelly, looking over his SS I had a few observations.

It seems like a lot of his higher numbers are due to getting into higher carb food. On 7/29 PM cycle you didn't shoot and in the comments you said he got into another cat's higher carb food yet the next morning you didn't shoot again and then the PM cycle he was a green pre shot ( 88) and another no shoot, and then 4 more no shoots in a row. On 8/1Am he was 370 and again, got into the HC dog food but, you didn't shoot....(.maybe you couldn't monitor that cycle?) That PM cycle you shot the 282 with 1 unit and that took him 94 the next morning. It indicates to me that 1 unit is too high of a dose and a lot of his higher numbers are all carb induced.

Let's see what this .25 unit does and keep him out of the contraband and let's see if we can get 2 shootable numbers in a day with a lower dose.


I agree with everything you wrote Bobbie and I thought the same thing. I have a scattered-brained, ADD 17 year old and it is a constant battle to get him to not leave doors open and food out. Buddy is on a constant hunt in the house and knows all the places he is likely to score - the other cat's rooms, the dog bowls, the kitchen sink, garbage cans, and my son's room. I wish I could feed him more because he is SO skinny and it seems like he is starving all the time but he's getting 4 cans of FF right now and that seems like plenty of food for a cat his size.

I would love to get him on a shot that I feel comfortable with 2/day but I can never be home to test M-F. That's what completely freaks me out.
 
Thanks for all your advice. I am ordering the calipers and magnifying glasses today. I'm still baffled about what to do with his injections in the meantime. After giving only .25 last night, he was only at 99 this morning and still only at 122 tonight so I do not feel comfortable shooting. When his numbers go back up again, should I drop down to even lower that .25? Everything I've read on here says Lantus really needs to be given twice a day but I simply haven't been able to do that. Over the past 14 days (28 shot times), I have only given 10 injections and only 8.75 units of Insulin for the entire 2 week period.

I am thankful that is numbers are so low BUT when dealing with such small amounts of insulin, being off by just a smidge is significant and leaves no room for error. That makes me extremely nervous.

If one of you have a different suggestion or thought, I'm certainly open to it. Again, I am SO THANKFUL for this group!!
 
He is really having a great result on LC food for sure! Let's see what he does tonight w/o insulin again. You could try 0.1 dose and see if you can get two shots in a day . Here is what it looks like. However, syringe markings can be off so in order to know that your syringe zero line is in the correct placement, apply a little pressure to the plunger and the top of the syringe rubber stopper should be even with the zero line. And the 0.1 dose is just below that line. The calipers will make it a lot easier for you. Bubba is currently on that dose and I rely on my calipers.


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Are you able to leave food during the day for him? Many of us use auto feeders while we aren't home.
 
It appears that my plunger goes slightly past the zero line. When I get to what I think you're describing, it looks like I get one drop and then a tiny speck more. Does that sound right? Somebody could make a fortune making syringes that measure in tenths! LOL.

I bought a PetSafe 5 meal feeded and it lasted for 3 days. That is what scares me to death about the autofeeders - I'm so afraid I will leave, counting on the feeder to work, and it will not dispense and he will become hypo. I so wish I could let him eat all of his food at once (which was the only real advantage of Vetsulin). I do have a neighbor who has agreed to come in and feed about 6 hours after his injection (she is an angel) but I'm wondering if waiting 6 hours could be a gamble. She works late shift so she sleeps until noon. Unless he is really high tomorrow, I may wait and inject in the evening (at the .1 dose) and see how much he drops. I wish I would have tried the lower dose while I was home this weekend.

I need to order syringes. Is there a specific syringe you recommend? I know I saw one on the forum last night (Terumo, I think) but don't know if there is preferred syringe. I would love to find a 31 gauge with 1/2 inch needle but I'm having a hard time finding one of those with 1/2 units. It's all so complicated, isn't it. LOL.

At what readings do people generally go OTJ. I notice your readings are fantastic with just a drop but wondered if they would still be okay (just slightly higher) completely without insulin. I'm sure you've "been there, done that" but wasn't sure which is better - slightly lower numbers but still using insulin, or numbers in the low 100s with no insulin. I suppose they both have their risks and benefits.
 
I bought a PetSafe 5 meal feeded and it lasted for 3 days
What do you mean? I have been using mine for, probably 18 months at least. If it broke contact their customer service, they are very good.

I need to order syringes. Is there a specific syringe you recommend?
Not 1/2" but close. These are what I use and have had pretty good luck with them.
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/16367/carepoint-vet-u-100-pet-syringe-31g-half-unit
 
For my syringes ( and they are all different) 0.1 is approximately 4 drops of insulin. I use the Relion syringes, 31 gauge, 8mm short needles. They are cheap and I use calipers so I can navigate the inconsistency of ill marked syringes. I believe they are all subjected to error from mass production but I do think I have read that the Turumo are better, but more expensive......

I do understand your concern with the feeder mal functioning, I am a worry wart and have been with that anguish myself. What happened to yours that it only lasted 3 days? It should have been under warranty. The company is in Canada and their customer service is very nice. They replaced one of my, with no hassles.

The OTJ trial numbers would be when you have numbers consistently under 100 but above 50 for one week. ( with an occasional blue number) Then the trial would start and after 14 days and no insulin, Buddy would be deemed in remission. And we would have a party! You aren't quite there but, I suspect it's around the corner for Buddy. Once in remission, they are still diabetic and can lose remission easily. ( ask Bubba about that, he is poster child for lost remission) so a low carb diet for life and regular dental cleanings as that is one of the # 1 reasons a cat loses remission.


Was Buddy on steroids for a short time? The reason I ask is that sometime steroids will throw a kitty into what we call transient diabetes. And with some insulin support and a low carb diet, they can turn around quickly. And to answer your question about what is better, is slighty lower numbers, numbers under 100 but not lower than 50 with some insulin until they have gone all the way to one drop. Which is the next thing after 0.1.

Could you create a signature like the rest of us have. In it provide Buddy's age, date of DX for diabetes and any other healthy issues he might have. Also include the meter you use, and what food you are feeding and any other pertinent info or if you'd like to share other furbabies that share your home.

Yes, Bubba has been there and done that and has the t-shirt 3 times and recently we were hoping for #4 off the juice but the morning I was going to start the OTJ trail, he was constipated and it sent him higher. I had to go back to 0.1 dose to reel him in some. I am home , take care of my 91 year old mom ( her BD is tomorrow) so I can be more aggressive with dosing and monitoring. I do realize that it is harder for all you that work outside the home.

Even thought you did not shoot insulin tonight, still get a test in before you go to bed. All info is good info. Next time in the PM with a blue number over 150 and you can monitor, I would shoot as long as you have some higher carb food on hand and plenty of supplies. That would be good data to have so that you will know how he will react to shooting lower. We have a saying around here, "shoot low to stay low" Lantus is famous for it's flat curves. But, you need that data first.
 
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For my syringes ( and they are all different) 0.1 is approximately 4 drops of insulin. I use the Relion syringes, 31 gauge, 8mm short needles. They are cheap and I use calipers so I can navigate the inconsistency of ill marked syringes. I believe they are all subjected to error from mass production but I do think I have read that the Turumo are better, but more expensive......

I do understand your concern with the feeder mal functioning, I am a worry wart and have been with that anguish myself. What happened to yours that it only lasted 3 days? It should have been under warranty. The company is in Canada and their customer service is very nice. They replaced one of my, with no hassles.

The OTJ trial numbers would be when you have numbers consistently under 100 but above 50 for one week. ( with an occasional blue number) Then the trial would start and after 14 days and no insulin, Buddy would be deemed in remission. And we would have a party! You aren't quite there but, I suspect it's around the corner for Buddy. Once in remission, they are still diabetic and can lose remission easily. ( ask Bubba about that, he is poster child for lost remission) so a low carb diet for life and regular dental cleanings as that is one of the # 1 reasons a cat loses remission.


Was Buddy on steroids for a short time? The reason I ask is that sometime steroids will throw a kitty into what we call transient diabetes. And with some insulin support and a low carb diet, they can turn around quickly. And to answer your question about what is better, is slighty lower numbers, numbers under 100 but not lower than 50 with some insulin until they have gone all the way to one drop. Which is the next thing after 0.1.

Could you create a signature like the rest of us have. In it provide Buddy's age, date of DX for diabetes and any other healthy issues he might have. Also include the meter you use, and what food you are feeding and any other pertinent info or if you'd like to share other furbabies that share your home.

Yes, Bubba has been there and done that and has the t-shirt 3 times and recently we were hoping for #4 off the juice but the morning I was going to start the OTJ trail, he was constipated and it sent him higher. I had to go back to 0.1 dose to reel him in some. I am home , take care of my 91 year old mom ( her BD is tomorrow) so I can be more aggressive with dosing and monitoring. I do realize that it is harder for all you that work outside the home.

Even thought you did not shoot insulin tonight, still get a test in before you go to bed. All info is good info. Next time in the PM with a blue number over 150 and you can monitor, I would shoot as long as you have some higher carb food on hand and plenty of supplies. That would be good data to have so that you will know how he will react to shooting lower. We have a saying around here, "shoot low to stay low" Lantus is famous for it's flat curves. But, you need that data first.


His feeder was never properly aligned and now the digital screen just flashes. I did contact them and they said they would replace but I just don't have it yet. It will now make me super paranoid though. Buddy was on steroids for all the diarrhea but it was a very short term dose. I'll have to check dates.

I just did a test and he is up to 174 and has not had his last meal yet (will get it as soon as I finish this). Would like to have seen a lower number. I'm so worried about injecting anything tomorrow since I will be gone from 7:30 until at least 4:30. My neighbor will come in and feed him about 12:30 but he drops really quickly - 150 - 200 points in 4-5 hours. I don't know if you will see this but I am tempted to not shoot if he is under 200 since I can not be home. Do you think that would be the safest route? I so wish I had a job where I could at least leave for lunch but, unfortunately, teachers don't have that luxury. Even if I could get home tomorrow, it can not be a regular option for me. So frustrating.

My vet texted me tonight and asked how Buddy is doing. I am dreading telling her I've gone completely rogue on her, LOL. Hopefully, she will support my decisions and agree that continuing him on the 1 unit she had him on would probably have killed him by now.
 
I am dreading telling her I've gone completely rogue on her, LOL. Hopefully, she will support my decisions and agree that continuing him on the 1 unit she had him on would probably have killed him by now.

My vet would do the same thing...ask how Luci was doing...I told him all about the support I was getting from this group - and sent him a copy of the SS so he could see for himself. I figured why not? It was after all helping Luci...he did ask why I was changing the dosage when she was in the green...really? He did NOT know that if they have a number below 50 (for us we're using the Relion Human Meter) that one would want to reduce the insulin amount...so it was just more proof that they (the vets) really don't understand the intracacies of fine dosing with Lantus...or any other insulin for that matter. He continued to ask me questions about her and I'd send him my data. For one thing he always wrote me back and said I was doing a really WONDERFUL job of testing her. Said he wished he had more patients like us...so my honesty was appreciated - apparently and he didn't take it as an insult whatsoever...

So my advice to you... be honest...tell your vet how wonderful you're doing by taking care of your Buddy! :bighug:
 
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