Should I just skip dosing altogether?

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Nat & Fluffy

Nat & Fluffy

Member Since 2016
I've been really mulling this over in my head the past few days... since Fluffy got diagnosed again a few days ago as he was tested 300 at the vet and he said his diabetes returned. His bloodwork showed his glucose was high, and there was a suspected kidney related infection, but not at all worrisome for my vet, so Fluffy was given an antibiotic shot that should work throughout the next 2 weeks.

But vet stress can cause #s to go up 100-180 read on human meters, correct? (And they use Alphtrack 2 meters, which means this number is a bit higher than our human meters as I have read!)

In that case, is he really even diabetic? Have I been giving him unneeded insulin? Should I skip a dose today and see what happens? I hate turning Fluffy into a science experiment, but I'm often very distrustful of medical authority on diabetes, FDMB has proved to help Fluffy and me so much.

Or maybe it's this suspected infection in the kidneys... maybe too soon to tell.
 
With a AMPS reading of 414 Fluffy needs insulin. Since this reading was done at home the vet stress does not come into play.Even with the vet stress and possible kidney infection, the numbers are still too high to be good for his body. As the infection clears you may see the numbers coming down some, but in the meantime he definitely needs insulin. Normal numbers on a human meter are 50-120, so Fluffy is definitely well above that.
 
@Tuxedo Mom Thank you! I just am overthinking all these factors coming into play. I'm trying to be on a strict schedule as much as I can. I don't even know if I should increase the dose to 0.75, (or higher?) or just continue to give 0.5, or change the dose depending if it is his morning, early evening, or night dose. :confused::confused: I'm so paranoid that he's going to bounce again and I heard it takes 2 or 3 days to recover. I don't know how I got those nice green and blue numbers Oct 6th after his 2nd shot of the day... I want them again!! :(
 
I understand...I too tend to overthink everything.;)


Since you had those blues 2 evenings ago Fluffy may still be bouncing into higher numbers from the lower numbers. Bounces can take up to 3 days to clear, so I would suggest holding the dose for another couple of shots.

One suggestion...your spreadsheet is very difficult to follow. It would be easier to understand if you put your comments in the box at the end of each line and just put the readings and dose sizes on the main spreadsheet. If there is ever an emergency situation with low numbers members need to be able to see the data quickly and clearly. :bighug:
 
Nat & Fluffy said:
or change the dose depending if it is his morning, early evening, or night dose.
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Just re-reading this. Are you giving THREE shots each 24 hours??? If so this is not a good idea and will make monitoring and keeping Fluffy's numbers in a safe range MUCH more difficult
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Just re-reading this. Are you giving THREE shots each 24 hours??? If so this is not a good idea and will make monitoring and keeping Fluffy's numbers in a safe range MUCH more difficult
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?!?!? Is that not what I'm supposed to do? I give him each shot every 8 hours!

IM SCARED
 
@Tuxedo Mom I will try to make the spreadsheet easier to read!!

It's been so difficult staying on schedule because this #$#!@ insulin wears off so fast and often shots get ahead or behind an hour because of life occurrences as of late..... He peaks at around 3-4. He's been eating his meals just fine, last night I'm making him eat his food 30 minutes before his shot. He eats half the can, and then eats the half later at his peak to ease it.

Please let me know what adjustments I need to make, I feel like a mess and I've been obsessively poring over his numbers and so afraid of him bouncing again... I feel like only two shots a day is too far apart...
 
Although Novolin N often will not last the entire 12 hour time between shots, it is not usually advised to do the 8 hour shots, unless you have a LOT of data. Some kitties will get a longer duration out of the Novolin, but without LOTS of data you don't know if your kitty is one or not. I see you will be getting Lantus shortly. That is a better insulin as far as duration goes.

Now I see why your spreadsheet is so hard to follow with a shot every 8 hours. It also makes it impossible for you to have any sort of life!! Good grief...how are you managing to do this!! How long until the Lantus arrives?
 
Big deep breath! It is possible to do 8 hour dosing but only if your lifestyle allows the sort of strict monitoring required. Yours does not so until the Lantus arrives you will find it easier to switch to a 12 hour regime, his numbers may not be as good as you would want at this stage but they are looking ok. It will also make it a lot easier to see the patterns on the spreadsheet in order to determine the optimal dose and where his nadir is falling. What is the total dose you have been giving per 24 hour period?
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Although Novolin N often will not last the entire 12 hour time between shots, it is not usually advised to do the 8 hour shots, unless you have a LOT of data. Some kitties will get a longer duration out of the Novolin, but without LOTS of data you don't know if your kitty is one or not. I see you will be getting Lantus shortly. That is a better insulin as far as duration goes.

Now I see why your spreadsheet is so hard to follow with a shot every 8 hours. It also makes it impossible for you to have any sort of life!! Good grief...how are you managing to do this!! How long until the Lantus arrives?
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@Tuxedo Mom You understand me!!! D: I am DYING for my Lantus to come, it may be another week until then :arghh::arghh: Fluffy has had a terrible time with Novolin, but he is such a champ... In the meantime, I feel like I am on edge with every number and dose; I am also a full time student, and have to come from and back my university every night to check his blood and doses (because my mom is still learning how to do it) and coordinating with her the dosings and curves and preparing everything for her so she can learn, and leaving for 6 am in the morning with my dad for my 8 am morning classes! But yeah, ever since his 2nd diagnosis last wednesday, I've slept about 4-6 hours every night o___o

Today I'm going to get some keto-diastix from walmart or something... I'm a walking waterbag of anxiety :blackeye:

Do you think I should just go ahead and tomorrow start doing 2 doses, 12 hours apart?

*P.S. I DONT HAVE A LIFE LOL
 
Alexi said:
Big deep breath! It is possible to do 8 hour dosing but only if your lifestyle allows the sort of strict monitoring required. Yours does not so until the Lantus arrives you will find it easier to switch to a 12 hour regime, his numbers may not be as good as you would want at this stage but they are looking ok. It will also make it a lot easier to see the patterns on the spreadsheet in order to determine the optimal dose and where his nadir is falling. What is the total dose you have been giving per 24 hour period?
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*bREAaaathes*

It's becoming near impossible... I am a control freak about Fluffs and my poor mother is trying everything she can to try and stay on schedule, but she has my two other brothers to take care of. Thank you so much... I've been sniffing his breath multiple times a day like a weirdo to check for the fruity ketone-y smell and maybe I'm paranoid but he's drinking well and seemingly normal, so I'm not too worried.

In total... between 1.25 and 1.75 :/ But I had forgot the first few days that you're supposed to feed him 30 minutes prior to injection, and so that may have also contributed to a bounce, and then our schedule isn't strict enough though we try to be D:
 
I'm REALLY jealous of you sugar kitty owner's whose spreadsheets are so neat and nice. They're so pretty to look at. I spend hours pouring over them. That's my goal when I get Fluff's Lantus :confused:
 
Nat & Fluffy said:
Do you think I should just go ahead and tomorrow start doing 2 doses, 12 hours apart?
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This is MY opinion....IF Fluffy has never had a DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) episode (you would have had him at the ER for several days on IV's if he had one)...considering the terrible strain of doing 8/8/8 shots and the fact that you really are not able to test enough to know if this is the right approach for Fluffy, and that you have Lantus coming shortly, I would suggest doing the 12/12 shots, getting the preshots and one of two tests in between if possible. His numbers are not terrible other than a few reds in there, but it is hard to say if those are bounces or not. With the Novolin N you could shoot earlier than every 12 hours if the numbers are high and if that fits your schedule better since Novolin is an "in and out" insulin and there is no carry-over effects once it wears off. Sometimes you have to balance out your life situations with your FD treatments. Definitely get some ketodiastix to test for ketones

ETA Once you get the Lantus it will be SO much easier for you :bighug:
 
We are allowed to have a life - even though it doesn't always feel like it. Novolin is a different beast from Lantus so the pre shot numbers probably look a bit scary compared to what you have been used to, if your mother can get some midcyle testing in without having to stress about dosing as well I am sure she would find things easier as well. You need to ease yourself back into the sugar dance and not be so hard on yourself. One of the benefits of an in-out insulin is that your schedule can be a bit off without throwing control out as well.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
This is MY opinion....IF Fluffy has never had a DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) episode (you would have had him at the ER for several days on IV's if he had one)...considering the terrible strain of doing 8/8/8 shots and the fact that you really are not able to test enough to know if this is the right approach for Fluffy, and that you have Lantus coming shortly, I would suggest doing the 12/12 shots, getting the preshots and one of two tests in between if possible. His numbers are not terrible other than a few reds in there, but it is hard to say if those are bounces or not. With the Novolin N you could shoot earlier than every 12 hours if the numbers are high and if that fits your schedule better since Novolin is an "in and out" insulin and there is no carry-over effects once it wears off. Sometimes you have to balance out your life situations with you FD treatments. Definitely get some ketodiastix to test for ketones
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Ahh okay :O I don't think he has, but I will tell you this; about a year ago when he was bouncing AWFULLY, after weeks and of one of many vet trips, he was still on dry food, and the 2 units was too much... I remember smelling his breath and it smelled like nail polish. I was naive about it and didn't think too much about it, thought it was just someone who swabbed him at the vet or something. :/

Dang. I should've listened to my vet. He said "2 units, every 12 hours". I'm too scared to do 2 units though... I think I want to try just 1... ?? but I don't know how to coordinate his feedings. Should he eat only twice a day 30 min before his 12 hr shot then? At least try?
 
With Novolin you should test, then feed, then give the shot about 30 minutes later. Because Novolin is a faster acting, harsher insulin this gives a food "buffer" before the insulin starts acting. You could give a mini meal or two in the early hours after the shot, maybe at +2 or +3, while the insulin is most active.


If your kitty ever had a serious DKA episode, he would not have survived without ER intervention. If you can get the ketodiastix and test his urine for ketones you will see if there are any ketones. Once you see a trace or more then it would be time to see the vet.

As far as dosing for a 12/12 shoot that would depend on how much you are able to monitor in the beginning.
 
That's what I do with my cat, it does make things easier. If you are comfortable with 1 unit every 12 hours then I would try that, if not maybe 0.75 units. 2 units twice a day might be a bit much until you get a better feel for how he is using the insulin and I would be wary about that size dose if Fluffy were mine.
 
Alexi said:
That's what I do with my cat, it does make things easier. If you are comfortable with 1 unit every 12 hours then I would try that, if not maybe 0.75 units. 2 units might be a bit much until you get a better feel for how he is using the insulin and I would be wary about that size dose if Fluffy were mine.
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Also if you are going to be starting Lantus in a week you don't want to push your kitty too hard with the Novolin. As long as you are testing for ketones.
 
@Alexi Thank you, that sounds like a good thing to start off with. :) How regularly do you both test for ketones? If they are over 250 consistently?
 
Ketones usually will show up in the case of:

Not enough insulin...consistent high numbers
Not eating or not eating well
An infection of some sort

Usually it is a combination of two or more of these things. Ketones are more prone to show in higher numbers, but if there is an infection or the kitty is not eating well they can show at lower numbers as well.
 
I do it at least once a week - I have to catch her using the tray so the actual day of the week varies. Other things to watch are activity levels and water intake. If a cat is ketone prone or has a history of ketones then more frequent testing is advisable.
 
Thank you guys <3!! Okay so, today was the best day so far, feeding him 30 minutes before his shot, and then finishing the rest of the meal around between +2 and +4. The curve looks gentler than I've ever seen before... :woot:

Now the question is, with N, I've read, don't shoot if it is under 200 at the time of his dose at +12 tonight; does that sound good here? :)

I won't be here much longer after his meal and possible shot since I have to be at my university tonight so I won't be able to check him during the night. My mom is going to be watching him tomorrow :O
 
Nat & Fluffy said:
Thank you guys <3!! Okay so, today was the best day so far, feeding him 30 minutes before his shot, and then finishing the rest of the meal around between +2 and +4. The curve looks gentler than I've ever seen before... :woot:

Now the question is, with N, I've read, don't shoot if it is under 200 at the time of his dose at +12 tonight; does that sound good here? :)

I won't be here much longer after his meal and possible shot since I have to be at my university tonight so I won't be able to check him during the night. My mom is going to be watching him tomorrow :O
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It is suggested that in the beginning ( and Fluffy is starting over again, so somewhat new) you do not shoot under 200. especially if you can't monitor carefully. This could lead to a higher number for his next shot, but sometimes you have to err on the side of caution. How long until the Lantus will be there?
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
It is suggested that in the beginning ( and Fluffy is starting over again, so somewhat new) you do not shoot under 200. especially if you can't monitor carefully. This could lead to a higher number for his next shot, but sometimes you have to err on the side of caution. How long until the Lantus will be there?
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Yes, Fluffy went into complete remission right when I started transitioning him to FFC (maybe I'll have to find an even lower carb diet)

Yeah, would rather hi than too low o.o

I called Marks and they said that it will arrive within a week or 10 days ish. I made sure and emailed them that I have the fastest shipment possible, no matter the extra cost!
 
Nat & Fluffy said:
Yes, Fluffy went into complete remission right when I started transitioning him to FFC (maybe I'll have to find an even lower carb diet)

Yeah, would rather hi than too low o.o

I called Marks and they said that it will arrive within a week or 10 days ish. I made sure and emailed them that I have the fastest shipment possible, no matter the extra cost!
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Mark's is usually pretty fast. Fingers crossed it arrives soon, so that you can get into a nice regular pattern for treating Fluffy and be able to have a life as well. :bighug: :bighug:
 
@Tuxedo Mom yesssss :bighug::bighug:!!! As terrible as it sounds, taking care of my cat really gives me an extra excuse to spend more time with him :) Marks is incredibly nice too, when I was talking to them on the phone they were helpful??? Completely different from the generally rude American healthcare services we get here :banghead:
 
Nat & Fluffy said:
@Tuxedo Mom yesssss :bighug::bighug:!!! As terrible as it sounds, taking care of my cat really gives me an extra excuse to spend more time with him :) Marks is incredibly nice too, when I was talking to them on the phone they were helpful??? Completely different from the generally rude American healthcare services we get here :banghead:
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Many of the US members using Lantus or Levemir buy from Mark's, partly because of the much cheaper prices than you pay in the US, but also because of the great service they give. When there was a possibility of a mail strike here in Canada, the fellow from Mark's gave regular updates on what was happening so that people could figure out what to do...luckily the strike was averted. One of the things that people with FD kitties find, is they get a much closer bond because of all the extra time and care they need to give. Everyone loves all their kitties, but FD kitties become just that little bit extra special. :bighug:
 
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