Should I give shot?

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Pam & Hoot

Pam & Hoot

Member Since 2012
Hi everyone, my name is Pam and I have Hoot who was diagnosed on Oct 4th. His BG was 430 initially, at the vets office. He put him on 1u of Lantis for 1 week, we went back 1 week later on a Thursday and did another test and the vet said his BG hadn't changed much, and bumped him up to 2u. I did my first test on the following Monday in the am and his BG was 41. I gave no shot and tested him again at 11:00am and it was 151. I tried to test a few more times that day with no luck but finally got another test at 9:00 pm and it was 421. I gave him 1 1/2u. Here are his #'s since.

10-16 - 9:00am - 194 gave 1u
4:30pm - 71
9:00pm - 273 gave 1 1/4u

10-17 - 9:00am - 206 gave 1u
9 ;30pm - 347 gave 1 1/2u

10-18 - 8:30am - 211 gave 1/14u
5:30pm - 209
9:00pm - 298 gave 1/12u

10-19 - 9:00am - 141 gave no shot
11:00am - 126
3:25pm - 259 gave 1u

10-20 - 8:30am - 280 gave 1 1/2u
8:00pm - gave 1 1/2u

10-21 - 8:30am - 130 gave no shot
11:30am - 268 ???????

I am very confused on what to give him and when, when his morning Bg is been good. I know I have to be more consistant with the dose, but not really sure what the dose should be. I really don't know what to do right now? I know he needs some dose, but what? I'm thinking maybe I could just keep him on 1u consistantly for 1 week and see what that does?
 
Also he had lost soooo much weight that I was told to just let him eat how ever much he wants for now. I have 2 other non sugar cats and have been trying to get all of them switched over to wet food. I think I have finally succeeded in that, but really have no feeding schedule as of yet because they are so used to free feeding on the dry, they think they need to eat everytime they come in the kitchen and I have been feeding Hoot whenever, which is affecting his BG levels. I have also been leaving canned food out at night for Hoot so I don't really know if the am test is a real fast test. How should I be feeding Hoot? The other two can adjust to his schedule.
 
Keep testing Hoot and you should post this on the other Lantus page. There are people there most of the time. This page doesn't have much traffic. You are not doing to badly but I'd take his dose down to the 1 unit. Keep testing through out the day if you can. At least get a +6 and see where he is halfway through. Sorry no one has come on board with you yet. I'll go over and have Sienne or someone off the tight regulation page take a look at your message.
 
Hello Pam,
I can't get anything from your spreadsheet. The link isn't working and it seems its different than the one we all have.
So first of all, let's see if we can get you a better spreadsheet so that everyone here will be able to help.
how to get a ss

I was trying to make a list of your bg readings and dose amounts in a way that everyone is used to reading it and finding it very time consuming.
I see you've been changing the dose a lot and that's not how Lantus works.
So we do need to find you a correct dose but meanwhile if you could go start a ss with the instructions above.
Most likely you will need to start at the 1 unit and stop changing it around. Lantus dosing is based on the nadir ( the lowest number of the cycle ) so you will also need
to test more freqently to find out where Hoot's nadir is. Every cat is different. Hoot will have his own individual pattern and it's up to you to find out what it is.

Are you able to monitor frequently or do you work and leave Hoot for large blocks of time?
Where are you , sometimes there might be someone nearby who would be available to help.
There are many here who freefeed. I am currently feeding every 4 hours but smaller portions. The same amount I would feed if I fed only twice a day.

You will be welcome to come post in Tight regulation forum even if you aren't doing the tight regulation protcol. But until we get a spreadsheet up and working and also
get some more bg tests, during both the am and pm cycle, it will be very difficult for those who give advice to guide you without being able to see Hoot's patterns.

Can you get a ss started?

I know you are going by your vet's advice currently but around here , we don't usually increase dose by whole units. It's generally by 0.25 units or 0.50 units at a time.
When you increase in larger amounts, you could miss that ideal dose.
I'll be checking back for a reply.
 
Oh and don't worry about increasing the dose yet.
First we need to get all your numbers on a spreadsheet, you need to shoot a dose that you can continue shooting both morning and night safely and then we'll get some eyes
to tell you when to increase and by how much.
Right now, we need to get you shooting consistently, see those numbers, get a few more tests times in to start letting the Hoot's pattern emerge.

Ask questions.

Your vet doesn't sound very familiar with this type of insulin ( many of them aren't) and I think you realize that with your varying dose amounts.
 
The document you have linked is Hoots' profile. You need to edit the location information (i.e., the https line) so it reads as follows: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id ... W_j9kc&amp. You don't need the code for the "frame." As Rhiannon noted, getting all of your test information into a spreadsheet will help you to keep track of Hoot's data and will help us to help you.

One of the basic principles with using Lantus is that it is an insulin that will give you the best results if you are consistent. You need to give a shot every 12 hours (or as close as possible). Also, once you change a dose, you need to allow it to stabilize. Typically, if you increase the dose, you wait 3 days before making any changes unless Hoot's numbers drop below 50, in which case you reduce the dose by 0.25u. Lantus dosing is based on the lowest point of the cycle -- the nadir. Thus, you don't change the dose based on your pre'shot numbers.

If you want more information on Lantus and it's use, please take a look at the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Lantus Tight Regulation Board. The following is an outline of what's contained in those notes:
  • Tight Regulation Protocol: This sticky contains the dosing protocol that we use here. There are also links to the more formal version -- the “Tilly” Protocol developed by the counterpart of this group in Germany, which was also published by Kirsten Roomp & Jacqui Rand, DVM in one of the top vet journals.
  • New to the Group: Everything you wanted to know about this forum and more. Info on our slang, FAQs, links to sites on feline nutrition and to food charts containing carb counts, how to do a curve and the components to look for, important aspects of diabetes such as ketones, DKA, and neuropathy, and most important, info on hypoglycemia.
  • Handling Lantus: how to get the maximum use from your insulin and what to not do with it!
  • Lantus depot: This is an important concept for understanding how Lantus works.
  • Lantus & Levemir: Shooting & Handling Low Numbers: What data you need in order to be able to work toward remission or tight regulation as well as information if you have a low pre-shot number or a drop into low numbers during the cycle.
 
sueandsamwise said:
Keep testing Hoot and you should post this on the other Lantus page. There are people there most of the time. This page doesn't have much traffic. You are not doing to badly but I'd take his dose down to the 1 unit. Keep testing through out the day if you can. At least get a +6 and see where he is halfway through. Sorry no one has come on board with you yet. I'll go over and have Sienne or someone off the tight regulation page take a look at your message.
Click to expand...


Thank-You!
 
Thanks everyone! I am working on the SS and will have it by tomorrow. I just did the profile first. I am home most of the time so testing more often would not be a problem. I am in Florida and have checked out if anyone is close to me and there is someone if I need them. I have read alot of the info on the board but not all of it yet, but will. I tested him again @ + 6.5 and he was 29, I immediately gave him some food and checked again and it was 44. I checked him again @ + 7 and he was 42. I gave him some more food and a little honey. I just checked him @ + 9.5 and he was 79. Now what should I do. I really have messed this up :? I usually give his shots around 8 or 9. It is 9:40 now so how do I get him back on track?
 
Hi, Pam.

Right now, I don't think you have the data to shoot this kind of low number. So please, in order to keep Hoot safe, please don't give a shot tonight. I do expect that you'll see Hoot's numbers bounce into high ranges by tomorrow morning. Don't be alarmed. This kind of a bounce off of a low number is your cat's body's protective response.

In addition, your dose is too high. The dose you're giving is dropping Hoot into the 20s and that is low. It was very fortunate that you tested when you did and caught that number. You did exactly the right thing to bring Hoot's numbers back up. Usually, most new members are in a state of utter panic. You did good!! In fact, you did great.

Without the benefit of a spreadsheet, it's hard to know exactly what you've been doing with dose. If I understand correctly, you shot 1.0u this morning? If that 1.0u dropped Hoot to a 29, I'm going to suggest that you essentially start over with your dose and drop the amount to 0.5u. Hopefully, this will allow you to give a shot twice a day at 12-hour intervals.

If you need help, information, etc., please feel free to post on the Tight Regulation board. There is usually someone around 24/7 -- or pretty close to that. There are several people on the TR board who use the SLGS approach. We're happy to lend a hand if you need one.
 
Hello.

I'm trying to re-cap today so I'll need your corrections

AMPS at 12:30 pm today? (E.S.T.)
+6.5 29
soon after 44
+7 42
+9.5 79


Keep in mind that honey will wear off so you should keep checking to make sure Hoot doesn't head back down.

Hope you can get that ss up.
I think it's going to be needed.

With the skipped shot tonite, you will be able to get back on track and have your shot times back where you wanted.
Please keep posting your numbers tonight.
 
Wow Pam, glad you caught that low number and got Hoot back up in the acceptable range. Whew! You have very good help here now and Sienne and Rhiannon will be loads of help. Good luck and do move over to tight regulation. Be the best place for you and Hoot. Love the name by the way. :-D
 
I finished the SS, I hope I did it right, let me know. It's already 10:30 how often should I check him tonight? And should I repost all this in the other Lantis board or just start new posts? And I should just skip tonights shot? Sorry, so many questions! I just don't know what we would have done with out all of you. Thanks again ♥
 
You can copy the general info and paste it into a new post on the TR board. You can also link your two posts together -- although I wouldn't worry about that. Either Rhiannon or I can do that for you.

If you have your SS together, make sure you've followed the directions exactly in order to put it in your signature. The profile link in your signature doesn't work. There's a lot of extraneous code in there that causes it to not work correctly.

Please skip the shot tonight. We typically advise new member to not shoot numbers below 150. I think on this board, they advise to not shoot below 200 until you have accumulated sufficient data to allow you to shoot lower numbers.
 
when you post a link.

use the URL button and make sure the link goes between the brackets. Sometimes it will move around on you ( or at least it did that to me)


If you want to go ahead and post tonite over in TR forum, you'll have a lot more eyes.
I'll link this post to it if you do.

Definitely you want to be over there tomorrow.
And if you can't get your ss link working, please give me the numbers so I can correct that re-cap of tonite.

Have you tested recently?
 
No, I can go test now. And I'm going to have to figure out the link to the SS. I'm not very computer savy, LOL, but I'll figure it out sooner or later.
 
Ok, his Bg is now 128. When should I check him again? I am going to bed now, but will get up to check him if you want.
 
Now I just have to figure out how to name it....Baby steps! I am going to test hoot 1 more time right now then I am going to bed. Waaaaay past my bedtime! I will post over in the TR Board tomorrow. Thanks so much for all your help tonight!
 
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