should i be worried?

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yogakat

yogakat

Member Since 2013
Hello all. I have not posted in over a month - busy with life - but I have been keeping up with Coleman and testing 4xday.

I am a bit worried right now because his number this afternoon was 499 and the his PM was 479. He was acting fine this afternoon and now he is lethargic and does not want to eat. Until tonight his appetite has been great.

Short version...back on insulin 6/14 at 1.0 BID...then up to 1.25 BID...then 1.5 BID...now 2.0 BID I gave him 2.5 this PM as our vet recently did that with a high reading when we had to board him for a couple of days.

Last ketone check was 3 or 4 weeks ago and was normal...he has not been keto since last year.

Sorry I have not kept up with his spreadsheet...as soon as I get this posted I will try to get it caught up. I have continued to test 4xday even tho I have not done spreadsheet.

How long do I need to wait to see if he needs to go to the vets (it would be the ER as it's after hours). Is there anything I can do in the meantime? He has not acted like this since his keto episode, but I think this is due to a sustained high reading. I will try to get a keto test when I see him go to rule this out.

So, YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am one worried kitty mom.

Any ideas or help?
 
Let me look.

Ok.

When you got that 81 back on 6/15, you increased his dose at the next shot because he bounced. A bounce happens when the glucose drops unusually low compared to normal or drops fast. This triggers compensatory hormones which release glycogen. That gets converted into glucose and up she goes. Never increase based on the pre-shot numbers; increases should be based on the lowest glucose between shots.

You may be using too much insulin for your cat.

Can you update your spreadsheet for the past couple of days?
 
okay, I am in the process of getting the SS all caught up...give me a 10 more minutes and I will have it up to date (I'm slow on the SS)

I can tell you that even at 2.0 his numbers are consistently in the 200s and 300s with the occasional drop into the 100s

just did a PM +1 and it was 323, so down ~140

he's still acting pretty weak...just lying there, tho he purrs when I pet or pick up...still not eating, still a worried mom

thanx for the advice...I hope my updated SS will help further
 
What does his breath smell like?

If you gently pull up the scruff at his neck and release, does it stay tented up?
 
okay, first...SS is done...sorry so slow, kept checking on Coleman

no, not dehydrated, skin snaps back just fine

breath smells like a combination of old fish and stale fritos (he has not eaten either one)...it is not fruity or acidic

any thoughts?

he is currently curled up in the kitchen sink (not unusual) but still lethargic and not wanting to eat

ps - yes, we let him sleep in the kitchen sink...who wants to wash dishes anyways?
 
Only 2 of 3 types of ketones have a detectable odor, so the breath check doesn't rule it out. With the glucose levels you've reported, I'd really suggest a vet check.

Does he seem comfortable?
Is he breathing slow or fast? Shallow or deep?

Can you wake him? Will he play? Purr?

Somewhat stuporous = go to vet.
 
so I decided at 3am that we needed to go to the ER...he had hardly moved in 3 hours, was 'out of it' and still no desire to eat. (note: he did eat about 1/4-1/3 a can of FF when we got back from the ER, but he was wound up by then...blah tho ever since)

a very quiet ride to the vets.

and, they found nothing. his BG was still in the 300s, but his physical was normal, his vitals normal and no trace of any ketos.

so, they gave me the option of doing chem/blood panels, but at ER pricing, I decided to wait until our vet opened in 3 1/2 hours.

I have an appt for 9am...and at this point with no sleep I am worried about my driving as well as my Coleman

he's still very lethargic and uninterested in what's going on around him

can anyone think of any specific questions I should ask our vet or any specific tests I should ask for?

any advice welcome and very much appreciated
 
I think getting labs at your vet is what will be needed to Id what is going on.

Things that cause lethargy/stupor:
Exhaustion
Infection
Late stage renal disease
DKA
Hypoglycemia
Stroke
Seizure disorder
Heart disease

I'm sure there are others. Good luck.
 
We just got back from the vets and...a lot of money for what appears to be a possible upper resp. infection. The vet's thought was pancreatitis...and of 6 cats they tested today he was the most probable...and the only one who was negative! :roll:

his blood/chem panels almost completely normal...elevated BG and barely-in-the-high-range RBC count...all others great

his physical had a slightly low temp...98 in one ear, 99 in the other...lungs sounded good but breath in throat area and sinuses was off...had lost .6 lbs...dehydrated...one eye had mild but clear discharge...couple that with vomiting twice yesterday, sustained high BG, not eating and possible diarrhea (I thought it was someone else, now I think it must have been him) and he is showing classic early signs of URI...all of that for only $550!!! (counting last nite's worried ER visit)

well, I'd rather have spent that and caught something early than ignored it and have it gotten much worse :shock:

so, he got the convenia shot, 100 units of fluids and an appetite stimulant...keep an eye on him, continue at 2.0 insulin, call them in the morning to report

BJM, thanks for your advice

and thanks to all who read my very worried post
 
Glad to hear such a "good" report. Not that upper respiratory is happy news but it's amazing how we cheer over such minor things when we expect so much worse. (I thought diabetes was the best thing ever since I was mentally preparing for kidney failure.)

Heal quickly, Coleman! Kitty equivalents of chicken non-noodle (nondle?) soup for you!
 
Read over the info on Convenia, especially the side effects, and be vigilant. If there is an adverse reaction to it, you'll want to intervene promptly.
 
stacia said:
Glad to hear such a "good" report. Not that upper respiratory is happy news but it's amazing how we cheer over such minor things when we expect so much worse. (I thought diabetes was the best thing ever since I was mentally preparing for kidney failure.)

Heal quickly, Coleman! Kitty equivalents of chicken non-noodle (nondle?) soup for you!
Click to expand...

yes, isn't it odd how things can shift in our perspective? given my thought of DKA or pancreatitis, I felt like doing cartwheels for a URI!

thank you stacia...and Coleman is in luck...I'm a vegan mom and I love 'chickenless' noodle soup!

BJM said:
Read over the info on Convenia, especially the side effects, and be vigilant. If there is an adverse reaction to it, you'll want to intervene promptly.
Click to expand...
BJM said:
BJM...sigh...one more thing to worry about...so far so good, though. I should have asked for pills, Coleman is a dream to medicate, no problem at all...I guess I was too tired from no sleep I-)

I do hate the idea that if he has a bad reaction he cannot get it out of his system...I wonder how long I should be on the alert for? a month?

you guys are all awesome!
Click to expand...
 
oh, a note...I have updated his #s since last nite...and he's still bouncing like a rubber ball...from a high of 499 yesterday afternoon to 59 this eve...and I'm going to stay up and continue to test to make sure he continues to trend up at least a little more...I don't want him to drop too low

ANY ADVICE????? after 2+months I would really like to see some lower numbers and some stability
 
Well, if going up in dose made bouncing worse, maybe going down a tad (0.25) would make it better. Or not. The only way you find out is to test the option for a good 3-5 days minimum.

Some cats need to be eased down to lower numbers, rather than going gung ho Tight Regulation.

Some cats may need timed mini-meals to keep them from dropping so fast that it triggers an exagerated bounce. It takes roughly 30 minutes for food spikes to begin, so you might feed about +4 to deliberately slow and reduce the amount of drop. Its an option, not a mandate.
 
and from 59 last nite (no insulin given) to 415 this morning

Coleman is once again lethargic and not wanting to eat...these extreme swings are hard on him...and me I AM REALLY STRESSING OVER THIS...I HATE TO SEE HIM FEELING SO BAD nailbite_smile

so, 375 at shot time and I took BJMs suggestion and went down to 1.75 (from 2.0) to see if that will make the drop not so severe...only time will tell

now Coleman gets his appetite stimulant...which he needs because he does not want to eat and he has had an insulin injection and CAN ANYONE TELL HOW WORRIED I AM?????????? nailbite_smile

does anyone have any suggestions for working with their kitty when he feels so poorly due to extreme bounces?
 
Coleman is doing better...tho if his BG goes above about 350 he becomes very lethargic

I took BJMs suggestion and lowered to 1.75 for both today, and so far so good...his highest reading was 'only' 402...very high but not the mid to upper 400s of late

his appetite is still puny, but I can get him to eat some with each meal...I feed 4xday...and I'm feeding him extra times right now on top of that to make sure that he's getting something down (but not less than 2 hrs before injection time so I get a clean read)

I have not seen him drinking ANY water, but his skin is still snapping back tightly...I am adding water to some of his meals...I am thinking that I may call the vet tomorrow and ask for fluids so that I can have them on hand in case I need to use them...it is the weekend after all and if he's going to show definite dehydration it will be when the vet is closed...of course! :roll:

he has been 'Annoying Cat' a couple of times today, so that is a good sign!
 
Coleman's morning read is 191...should I dose at a lower level or not at all?

When I skip because he's under 200, his PMPS is going to be very high and he'll be feeling really crappy

HELP!
 
That is OK. You've been shooting for a while and may gradually lower your no shot number to 150 mg/dL, starting with 190 for today.

You can always stall for 30 minutes and re-test. If rising, then shoot.

Stick to the 1.75 dose and hang in there.

Also, part of that high number may be bouncing off the low number yesterday. Bounces may take up to 3 days to clear.
 
okay, I dosed the 1.75

I will be around most of the day to keep an eye on him.

He is doing very well today...ate a good amount for his breakfast, acting normal

thank you for the hand-holding BJM
 
You're welcome. Just paying it forward; lots of folks helped my with Spitzer. :smile:

As you go along, check out other folks new posts to see what they're managing. There tends to be a lot of common questions on testing, food, and insulin, plus a need for support. You are encouraged to share what you've learned and be supportive, as you are able. That is how this message board works.

And by checking more established folks posts, you may pick up tidbits you'll find helpful, if not at present, at some time in the future.
 
I did post to others some yesterday...but I don't really feel that I have enough experience yet to address medical specifics, or even talk about what I do for Coleman since he's not really regulated yet.

I just talked about meters/strips and peeing! :lol:

all in good time...
 
I understand what you're saying. I don't know enough to feel like I can help anyone either - I can barely help my Tasha-kitty at this point. But I try to at least offer support and be a cheerleader for others, provide a link if something sounds familiar, that kind of thing. I'm barely keeping afloat right now between my new sugarkitty and work but it's amazing how much of a relief it can be just to have someone post and ask how it's going or to tell you it looks like you're doing OK.
 
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