shooting low, eyes? UPDATE

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could you please look at tom's ss and let me know if i can shoot current dose?
thank you.
i know this will occur from time to time...scared to shoot.
 
Re: shooting low, eyes?

i really don't think so sienne...his shot time was 9:30 i'm still waiting.
do you think it's a risky number to shoot without testing?>
 
Re: shooting low, eyes?

if i shoot the full dose now i'll be able to get a +9
 
Re: shooting low, eyes?

You might be more comfortable dropping back to the 1.75U tonight then, though you may still see action from the previous two 2U shots. He hasn't plummeted to green before as far as I can see, so hopefully he won't start now :cool:

MJ&Donovan
 
Re: shooting low, eyes?

ok, i like that idea...any others want to chime in.
should i test again..now...at +12.5 to see what he's doing
 
Re: shooting low, eyes?

oh boy glad i did'nt shoot. 1/2 hour after meal and he's down to 100.. almost shot before testing..now what folks?
 
Re: shooting low, eyes?

yes, shooting a rise is less scary than shooting a (to you) low number.
Off to zzz now - hope the left coasters can stay with you a bit.

MJ&Donovan


edit to add: Hmmm. I'd just hate for you to skip the shot and lose momentum. Maybe shoot 1U instead?
 
Re: shooting low, eyes?

I wouldn't suggest shooting a dropping number especially if you can't test. You either need to stall and shoot the full dose when numbers come up and then test, shoot a reduced dose - although I'm not confident of shooting a dropping number without testing, or skip.

I don't think this is an emergency.
 
Re: shooting low, eyes?

sienne i'm confused. i can wait and test to see a rising # but even if he lingers here is it better to skip than to reduce dose even in half?
 
Re: shooting low, eyes?

With any of the options (other than skipping), when you shoot a low number you've got to do some follow up testing. Otherwise, it's like shooting low and walking out the door for 9 hours. It's not safe. You know this from using PZI. If you don't know how Tom will respond to your shooting a low number, the only way you find out how he responds is to get the data.

Right now, you're seeing a dropping number. If you shoot and the numbers keep dropping then Lantus onset begins, Tom could tank and you'll be asleep vs. being awake to monitor and steer the cycle.
 
Re: shooting low, eyes?

UPDATE: i tested again in one hour and tom rose from his 'food dip' to 124 again so i shot a BCS 1.25 and I THINK part of that was a fur shot.
+9 124 soooooo...
 
Lori,

You don't have the data to shoot a number that low and know whether Tom will be safe or not without testing. Whenever someone shoots the lowest PS they have ever shot, we always suggest that they get a +1 and +2 at minimum....and then further testing as indicated by the intial tests. Knowing that you have a sleep disorder and are not able to stay up and test, the safest course of action was what Sienne suggested...to skip the shot. Tom's safety is the top concern. If you skip, you may lose some momentum, but you will know that he is safe.

Feeding while stalling is a problem....whether he drops or rises from food is not the issue. The issue is that the numbers you get after feeding are influenced by the food....so you can't tell if he is rising or dropping naturally. You fed, tested 20 minutes later and got a dropping number, then tested 40 minutes after that and got a rising number. Usually it takes longer than 20 minutes to see the effects of food, unless you are using karo, etc. which is absorbed more quickly. An hour is long enough to see food effect...so I'm *guessing* that Tom was probably dropping naturally and then the rise was a food spike. But the problem is that there's no way to be sure once you introduce food into the situation....so it's a guess, KWIM? That's why we tell you to not feed when you are stalling....so you can get a clear picture of what is going on. You don't want to shoot a food spike, because the food spike will wear off and the insulin onset will occur at about the same time...that could lead to a big drop.

I suspect that you are going to say, "But I shot a BCS dose, I was playing it safe!" Here's where you are still thinking PZI......you forgot about the shed. Many times when you shoot a reduced dose, you don't see the full effect of the reduction until the following cycle and/or cycles after that because the shed "makes up" for the missing insulin. Likewise with a fur shot...usually you see the full effect of the fur shot during the following cycles, not necessarily the cycle when you gave the fur shot, because of the shed.

I know you see people shooting low numbers, and you hear about "shooting low to stay low". We want you to get there, but first and foremost, we want to make sure that Tom is safe while you are getting there. You need to be able to monitor if you are going to shoot a lower number for the first time. Anyone without the necessary data would be told the same thing....you don't want to shoot a low number that is dropping or food influenced if you are not going to be able to monitor. It's not safe.
 
Thank you Sienne..and fwiw, the big difference here for me is I would not shoot a low # with pzi. I felt I knew my cat and the pzi only too well.

And Laurie,
I understand mostly what your saying. I don't know which is harder..shooting a low # or skipping a dose. Tom's safety of course is primary. Considering I won't be testing at night but can get a +1.5 an a +9...and based on current data...there must be another option than to not shoot. I would love to carefully examine my SS with you. I feel we may find some trends and data to go by with what we have now.

Thank you both,
Lori
and tomtom too!
 
Lori, I've got no good advice to give, but I took a peek at Tom's spreadsheet and just wanted to say that I'm so excited for the progress he's made! I remember a couple weeks ago when you said you didn't want to get greedy and hope for blues/greens! :) So glad that Tom is working his way to healing numbers... good luck! :)
 
Tom is really liking this dose!

Unfortunately there isn't any way to get data that will apply to shooting low other than by shooting low when you are able to test, and collecting the data that way. If you can't test at night, then you'll just have to wait until he gives you an opportunity during the day when you CAN test. He's trying, so hopefully that will happen soon.

For now, though, just notice how much flatter he is the lower the preshot number. No big plunges yet when you've shot blue, right? Not that he can't still drop from blue, he can, but he can't drop as far from blue as he can from pink or red.
 
Libby are you saying he 'can't' drop that fast when in the blues to the greens or that they don't drop as fast as when they are higher. like pinks or reds can and do drop faster. Is that what you are saying?
Yes we are both liking this dose...albeit nervouse when it comes time to shoot.
And from where I sit tom has always been kind of flat since starting lev. That's coming from pzi where you can typically drop 3 or 400 points by +6...so lingering around where he has since lev is really slow movement to me :lol:
 
lori and tom said:
Libby are you saying he 'can't' drop that fast when in the blues to the greens or that they don't drop as fast as when they are higher. like pinks or reds can and do drop faster. Is that what you are saying?
Yes we are both liking this dose...albeit nervouse when it comes time to shoot.
And from where I sit tom has always been kind of flat since starting lev. That's coming from pzi where you can typically drop 3 or 400 points by +6...so lingering around where he has since lev is really slow movement to me :lol:
lori, libby is saying is you won't see as steep a drop when you shoot a low ps number as you often see when shooting the same dose on a higher ps number. check out spreadsheets of kitties whose beans shoot low to stay low for examples. look at alex's 2009 - 2011 lev spreadsheets. however, in order to feel comfortable shooting low ps numbers, you need more data. once you have the data, you'll know what you can and cannot do with tom.
 
ok thanks jill, i'm relieved to see they don't drop as much on lower numbers. i knew the time would come ( if we were lucky ) when i would have to shoot a low and now i know i will have to shoot an even lower. it is foreign concept and a little hard to accept but i know i've seen it every day here in lantus while i shot pz. so in 45 minutes i should be facing 'the number' and be prepared to shoot it.
 
lori and tom said:
ok thanks jill, i'm relieved to see they don't drop as much on lower numbers. i knew the time would come ( if we were lucky ) when i would have to shoot a low and now i know i will have to shoot an even lower. it is foreign concept and a little hard to accept but i know i've seen it every day here in lantus while i shot pz. so in 45 minutes i should be facing 'the number' and be prepared to shoot it.
b-b-b-b-b-but...
when you shoot a lower than usual ps number, you'll want to perform spot checks until you've gathered enough data to know what tom will do when shot on a low ps number. kwim? you can't just shoot on his lowest ps number ever and go to bed.
 
not to worry jill. he gave me a nice curve today and pmps 195 shot 2u

so if you have'nt seen his ss his day was

amps 188
+4.5 113
+6 102
+8.5 111
pmps 195

very comfy shot.
i'll be getting a +9
hope that's given approval :-D

i never mentioned but tom only has one good ear for poke. his other ear was torn in a tomcat fight years ago and really cannot bleed without a 15 minute massage and a long milking process----so basically we got one ear.
 
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