Shooting at 140ish...
- Thread starter Terri&Kit
- Start date
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C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
Re: Back up to 277
Terri,
I just looked for the first time at Kit's chart. I never made one up myself, other than the log I keep in a notebook on my nightstand. Mine is so easy to read. Just black on white. Kit's made my head hurt! Only kidding, I just had a hard time figuring out how to read it.
Here's what struck me as strange - yesterday morning he was at 266. you gave him one unit. last night he was too low to dose. this morning he had none. and tonight he's at 277 (which is well inside the meter's margin of error, so pretty much he's exactly where he was yesterday morning. It's actually been 36 hours since he last got a shot.
I guess I don't understand what's going on. If he's eating, his numbers should be going up. And unless his pancreas is producing insulin, they shouldn't drop much, should they? (This question is directed to the group, Terri, not to you.) If Terri isn't giving insulin to make his BG drop, then why doesn't his sugar continue to rise?
Terri, if it were me, I would probably give him .5 units, then if possible, check him 3 or 4 hours, then again at +6. I know that really screws up any chance you have at sleeping! Easy for me to say, I'm off work the next 2 days :smile:
Carl
Terri,
I just looked for the first time at Kit's chart. I never made one up myself, other than the log I keep in a notebook on my nightstand. Mine is so easy to read. Just black on white. Kit's made my head hurt! Only kidding, I just had a hard time figuring out how to read it.
Here's what struck me as strange - yesterday morning he was at 266. you gave him one unit. last night he was too low to dose. this morning he had none. and tonight he's at 277 (which is well inside the meter's margin of error, so pretty much he's exactly where he was yesterday morning. It's actually been 36 hours since he last got a shot.
I guess I don't understand what's going on. If he's eating, his numbers should be going up. And unless his pancreas is producing insulin, they shouldn't drop much, should they? (This question is directed to the group, Terri, not to you.) If Terri isn't giving insulin to make his BG drop, then why doesn't his sugar continue to rise?
Terri, if it were me, I would probably give him .5 units, then if possible, check him 3 or 4 hours, then again at +6. I know that really screws up any chance you have at sleeping! Easy for me to say, I'm off work the next 2 days :smile:
Carl
Terri&Kit
Member
Re: Back up to 277
Lol gee thanks Carl! Nah only kidding lol.
I couldn't figure out how to read the chart until I actually started putting numbers into it lol. I just used the template everyone else was using. I have a notebook log too, but it's a mess lol. I try to keep his online log up to date too so others can help me, but I don't leave my pc on all the time and I tend to forget the number fairly quickly lol.
And I was wondering the same thing about his numbers, I posted in PZI last night, but didn't get many opinions on the matter.
I did lessen his dose to .8 I couldn't decide .8 or .6 but I already set alarms to go off so I could wake up and check him. (I even made sure they were set for AM this time lol) And I even made him up a bowl of food and set it in the fridge so all I have to do is give it to him. Much easier at 3 am! I am still giving him about 5 pieces of kitty crack on top of his food. Tomorrow it will only be 4 pieces! He didn't seem to go for the fortiflora, but I will try it again tomorrow. I got his food cans switched up and gave him a flavor he didn't like :lol: Then I wondered why he didn't eat! Man he's a picky little booger! I also switched to a scruff shot. He didn't bite me, but he still growled and hissed. Its hard to make sure I hit skin there, because he is a long haired fuzz ball!
He's already dropped a good bit at his +2 tonight and I'll keep checking him.
Lol gee thanks Carl! Nah only kidding lol.
I couldn't figure out how to read the chart until I actually started putting numbers into it lol. I just used the template everyone else was using. I have a notebook log too, but it's a mess lol. I try to keep his online log up to date too so others can help me, but I don't leave my pc on all the time and I tend to forget the number fairly quickly lol.
And I was wondering the same thing about his numbers, I posted in PZI last night, but didn't get many opinions on the matter.
I did lessen his dose to .8 I couldn't decide .8 or .6 but I already set alarms to go off so I could wake up and check him. (I even made sure they were set for AM this time lol) And I even made him up a bowl of food and set it in the fridge so all I have to do is give it to him. Much easier at 3 am! I am still giving him about 5 pieces of kitty crack on top of his food. Tomorrow it will only be 4 pieces! He didn't seem to go for the fortiflora, but I will try it again tomorrow. I got his food cans switched up and gave him a flavor he didn't like :lol: Then I wondered why he didn't eat! Man he's a picky little booger! I also switched to a scruff shot. He didn't bite me, but he still growled and hissed. Its hard to make sure I hit skin there, because he is a long haired fuzz ball!
He's already dropped a good bit at his +2 tonight and I'll keep checking him.
Melanie and Smokey
Very Active Member
Re: Back up to 277
Looks like you are trying to do a food change at the same time as starting insulin? I think a dose decrease is probably a good idea. I don't know your insulin, but the numbers show a need for some insulin assistance right now, it just might be a rough ride while you find the right dose with a food change going on too. Better to go low and come back up as long as you aren't really high or worried about ketones.
If you are having a hard time getting him to eat the wet food, try warming it a touch or adding a bit of warm water. A lot of cats will be more tempted by the warm food, I think it stinks more
Looks like you are trying to do a food change at the same time as starting insulin? I think a dose decrease is probably a good idea. I don't know your insulin, but the numbers show a need for some insulin assistance right now, it just might be a rough ride while you find the right dose with a food change going on too. Better to go low and come back up as long as you aren't really high or worried about ketones.
If you are having a hard time getting him to eat the wet food, try warming it a touch or adding a bit of warm water. A lot of cats will be more tempted by the warm food, I think it stinks more
my Casey bear
Active Member
Re: Back up to 277
Terri,
Hope all goes well for you and Kit tonight!!
Roberta
and Casey
Terri,
Hope all goes well for you and Kit tonight!!
Roberta
and Casey
Terri&Kit
Member
Re: Back up to 277
I think the only reason I was having a problem with a food switch was just that he didn't like the FF. I think we are ok on the food front now. He seems to like the Sophistacats.
I'm definitely going to have to lessen his dose though. His +6 last night was 70, and he was only 91 at his AMPS this morning, so I couldn't give him a shot. I know he needs insulin, but I'm far too new at this to be shooting at 91!
I'm going to reduce him to .5U and see what happens.
I think the only reason I was having a problem with a food switch was just that he didn't like the FF. I think we are ok on the food front now. He seems to like the Sophistacats.
I'm definitely going to have to lessen his dose though. His +6 last night was 70, and he was only 91 at his AMPS this morning, so I couldn't give him a shot. I know he needs insulin, but I'm far too new at this to be shooting at 91!
I'm going to reduce him to .5U and see what happens.
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
Re: Back up to 277
Terri,
I think that's a good decision. I would go with .5 and stick with it. Even if his numbers climb into the 250+ range, I would stick with a consistent dosage if at all possible.
With the diet changes you've gone through in the past 10 days, and with the way his numbers have been so inconsistent, it seems like there has to be some sort of "normalcy" (if that is even a word) in the equation.
Now that you have found a food he likes, that should introduce a type of constant into his routine. I think that as many constants as you can put into this, the easier it will be for you and for Kit over the long haul.
There just seems to be too many things changing all at the same time. The "start low - go slow" method seems to work well for most cases. I know your initial suggested dose was 2, which was "high" for a starting point. It seems that lower doses have gotten great results as he's had big drops after shooting. But maybe they aren't low enough?
What does everyone think? Would .5 units as a "norm" be a good place to be? Shouldn't doses, at the beginning of the "dance" be as consistent as possible? Once a kitty starts to have a positive response to treatment that repeats (same dose = same results), wouldn't you then start to "customize" treatment in order to get a degree of regulation that you are aiming for (and/or eventual resmission)?
Carl in SC
Terri,
I think that's a good decision. I would go with .5 and stick with it. Even if his numbers climb into the 250+ range, I would stick with a consistent dosage if at all possible.
With the diet changes you've gone through in the past 10 days, and with the way his numbers have been so inconsistent, it seems like there has to be some sort of "normalcy" (if that is even a word) in the equation.
Now that you have found a food he likes, that should introduce a type of constant into his routine. I think that as many constants as you can put into this, the easier it will be for you and for Kit over the long haul.
There just seems to be too many things changing all at the same time. The "start low - go slow" method seems to work well for most cases. I know your initial suggested dose was 2, which was "high" for a starting point. It seems that lower doses have gotten great results as he's had big drops after shooting. But maybe they aren't low enough?
What does everyone think? Would .5 units as a "norm" be a good place to be? Shouldn't doses, at the beginning of the "dance" be as consistent as possible? Once a kitty starts to have a positive response to treatment that repeats (same dose = same results), wouldn't you then start to "customize" treatment in order to get a degree of regulation that you are aiming for (and/or eventual resmission)?
Carl in SC
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
Re: Back up to 277
Since you are getting some no shoot numbers and having to skip, and doing the food change at the same time, I would definitely lower the dose. .5 would be a good starting place, getting some nadir numbers and seeing how that works with the food. The general rule is that if you get a preshoot that is too low, you should lower the dose so you can shoot every 12 hours.
I saw in PZI that you have U100 needles so you can reduce to .3 or something if the .5 brings the nadir too low or the preshot too low. You ideally want a nadir (around +6 hours after the shot in most cats - the lowest point of the cycle) to be above 50 and the preshot number to be shootable. Once you get some numbers on him, you can get a little braver about shooting lower preshots. A curve would be useful if you can get one.
The best time to get advice in PZI is in the morning and evening. It is not as big a forum as Health, so come here when you need immediate help.
Since you are getting some no shoot numbers and having to skip, and doing the food change at the same time, I would definitely lower the dose. .5 would be a good starting place, getting some nadir numbers and seeing how that works with the food. The general rule is that if you get a preshoot that is too low, you should lower the dose so you can shoot every 12 hours.
I saw in PZI that you have U100 needles so you can reduce to .3 or something if the .5 brings the nadir too low or the preshot too low. You ideally want a nadir (around +6 hours after the shot in most cats - the lowest point of the cycle) to be above 50 and the preshot number to be shootable. Once you get some numbers on him, you can get a little braver about shooting lower preshots. A curve would be useful if you can get one.
The best time to get advice in PZI is in the morning and evening. It is not as big a forum as Health, so come here when you need immediate help.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Terri shooting an odd number..like .3 or .6 is just an eyeballing thing.
I am prone to shoot the low number that is clearly on the rise...even shoot a much lowered dose rather than skip dose.
But that's me.
Most at PZI will say 134 is a no shoot. If Kit is going up....I don't see the validity to that suggestion. Remember it takes an hour or 3 to kick in.
Lori
I am prone to shoot the low number that is clearly on the rise...even shoot a much lowered dose rather than skip dose.
But that's me.
Most at PZI will say 134 is a no shoot. If Kit is going up....I don't see the validity to that suggestion. Remember it takes an hour or 3 to kick in.
Lori
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