Sharon and Moses from Hawaii

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Nohea's Moses

Nohea's Moses

Member Since 2015
Hi Everyone,

Me and Moses (a classic grey tabby/Siamese mix) is new to the thread. I just started doing home testing and when I was looking at videos to get blood samples I came across this and I am so glad I did. He is my big beautiful boy and I love him dearly. I adopted him knowing he was diabetic but I heard he was going to be taken back to the shelter from his foster mom and I couldn't let that happen. His last glucose curve says he is doing well but I want to change his diet and if I can monitor his BG without cashing a lot of money at the Vet I would love to try, so home monitoring it is.

I look forward to speaking with many of you and hopefully if I ever need help, I can find the answers on here.
 
Welcome to FDMB. Well done on adopting a diabetic kitty. And it is great you are home testing.
There are many experienced people here on the board who will be able to help you on your journey with Moses....who is gorgeous by the way.
Can you tell us what insulin and dose he is on please?
Low carbohydrate, canned cat food is best for a diabetic cat. Here is a link to food information.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/food-links.133016/

If you can set up a spreadsheet with Moses's blood sugar numbers in it, people will be able to advise you on dosing. Here is the link for that. If you have trouble setting it up ...post and someone will help with sorting it all out for you.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/

Can I ask your name please?
Here we always test the blood sugar to see it is safe to give the insulin before doing so ......so we test, feed then give the insulin twice a day 12 hours apart.
Many of us give several smaller meals throughout the day instead of just two meals. So we might give food when the insulin is given, then some more two or three hours later. Then the same at night.
Please ask lots of questions.
 
My name is Sharon, Moses's insulin dose is 5 units of PZI. Right now he gets feed hills m/d but I want to change it to Primal.
 
Hi Sharon!
Is the M/D dry or canned? If it is dry you will need to make sure you monitor the blood sugar levels closely when you change over to Primal, which I imagine is canned. Do it slowly and be aware that the blood glucose levels could drop with the lower carbs in the food.

I don't know anything about PZI insulin as I give my cat a different insulin. But I will tag Elizabeth as she gives her cat PZI I think. @Elizabeth and Bertie , would you mind helping Sharon please. She is using PZI insulin with Moses. Thanks. I will also ask @Sue and Oliver (GA) Sue would you mind helping Sharon please?
Good luck with Moses Sharon ....he is a lucky boy to have you!
 
Hi Sharon,

Good for you to start hometesting and changing the diet. ProZinc is a good insulin. 5 units is more than most cats need, but if Moses is eating high carb dry, it will require more insulin. If you switch to lower carb, it would be best to have the testing down before you make the switch. When we changed Oliver from dry to wet, his levels dropped 100 points overnight. We were testing so we reduced his dose that next morning.

We have put together a protocol for ProZinc. It is in my signature in blue.
 
Hi Sue,

I was having a really hard time getting a big enough blood sample when I was doing his foot but I just tried his ear and I was able to get a reading of 75 mg/dl, Unfortunately I don't know if the results are different on a glucose monitor if the blood wasn't taken via IV. Is 75 good or bad?
 
Yes, nadir is usually the lowest point in the cycle, normally with ProZinc 5-7 hours after the shot. We suggest new diabetics not shoot under 200 until they have enough data to know what their kitty's blood levels might do. If you get a number under 200, stall. Wait 20 minutes without feeding (which can raise levels) and retest. You want to be sure the number is going up, not down and that it is high enough to shoot (200+)

Looks like you have a spreadsheet set up. Good work! Now you can start adding data. AMPS is the morning number before food and the shot. U= number of units shot +1 is the number of a test one hour after the shot; +6 is the number 6 hours later etc. PMPS is the evening shot number. All the + numbers to the right are tests you might get at night.

Having his history at a glance will really help us figure out how he is doing when you need dose help.
 
Considering how low it is right now, I should get a result at night before I feed him, should I hold off giving him his shot considering his shot is way below 200. And thank you for explaining the spreadsheet I was having such a hard time understanding it and where to put everything. LOL
 
I would get a couple of more tests before his shot, just to make sure he is going up. He's been on insulin for two years now, if I am reading the thread right? But you just started testing? I'm not experienced with PZI, but will see if I can tag someone who is.
 
Hi Sharon! So, to verify, he was at 75 at +8? He normally gets 2 units? And he's been on insulin for 2 years, but you just recently started home-testing?

If that is correct, I wouldn't shoot below 200. You just don't have the data to see what he might do with any amount if he's already low. Say at shot time, he is at 170 or so. In that case, I'd stall 20 min WITHOUT FEEDING. Re-test. If the number has gone up to above 200, you should be okay to shoot. However, I might reduce the dose, since that gave you such a low number late in the game.
 
AMPS ???; 2 units
+8 ~ 75 mg/dL

The nadir period for ProZinc is usually between +5 to +7 hours post-shot, so he was likely starting to rise by +8 and could have been much lower earlier.
If he gets up to 200 mg/dL and you can monitor around +5 to +7 hours post-shot, you might try 1.0 units.
 
Yes I am very late in the home monitoring game. Also I was having a hard time even getting a sample to test. I was watching youtube videos on the ear puncture sample and gave it a shot and was able to get a actually result. I didn't know about the whole nadir time but now I will get on that I usually don't come home from work in the 5+ to 7+ period but I will do it once I get home.
 
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Some folks do that on a day off or weekend. Some will even set an alarm and test overnight. If you do the middle of the night alarm, set it for a multiple of 45 minutes, which is the average time for a sleep cycle. Waking is less difficult at the end of a sleep cycle.
 
He may come up at the end of the cycle or he may be below 200. If he is under 200, do the stalling. Wait 20 minutes without food and retest. If he rises and is over 200, you can give him a shot, but I would give less than your previous shot. If he is over 200, then the same dose you gave earlier MIGHT be okay. What we don't know is whether there was a lower number before the 75.

Since he is responding well to the insulin and food, what would you think about restarting him at one unit? Then you raise if your hometesting indicates, 0.25 at a time. It is a lot easier to carefully raise the dose based on your tests rather than trying to guess how much to reduce.
 
Alright I just tested him right now and it came out to 184 so it is definitely rising. I will retest him in an hour and see what it is and yeah I would be willing to give him 1 unit tonight.
 
Sneaked a peek at Mose's spreadsheet. I would urge you not to shoot below 200 until you have more data. When you shot at 163, he could have still been falling, not rising. You don't want to add more insulin onto insulin that is still working. We suggest stalling - waiting 20 minutes without feeding and retesting. You want a number that is rising and nearer 200.

It might be that he dipped low after the cycle with the 163 shot and bounced back up.

The other idea I have is that if you are getting a 163 after 12 hours since the previous shot, he may need less insulin. With ProZinc/PZI, you want a smile curve: starting at one number, dipping down in the middle to a safe nadir and then slowly rising to a level near the amps. You are getting a curve with the lowest number at the end, often suggesting too much insulin.

Could you get a bit of a curve this weekend? Get a number in that +2 range, then somewhere 5-7 (maybe even 4 and 6) and then 8/9? That would give you a good idea of how the insulin is working : when does he start down? What's the lowest point? When does he start back up? Then you can make a good choice about how the insulin is working and how you might adjust the dose.
 
I will try to do the glucose curve this Sunday on my next day off. So when he is below 200 even after stalling, I should feed him but not give him his shot?
 
If he were mine and he didn't get up to 200 after 2 periods of stalling (2 tests 20 minutes apart without feeding) then I would skip. It's early in this sugar dance for you two and it's safer for him to be too high than too low.

You have some options with ProZinc. Say you got that 163 and even after stalling the twice, he is still under 200. You could

1. Let it go until later in the cycle. Say he is high 2 hours before your next regularly scheduled shot or 4 hours. If you want, you could shoot early. The problem is that it messes up your schedule as the next shot should be 12 hours from that one.

2. If he is close to 200 (maybe 180+) and sure rising from his previous test, you can shot less. So if one unit gave you a number too low to shoot but that rose in 20 minutes, maybe pull up one unit and let out two drops.

3. If he is pretty low like your 163 and he doesn't rise (and particularly if he is falling) skip. The next pre shot test will probably be high because it will have been 24 hours since his last shot but I would still reduce. MY thinking is if your previous dose gave you an unshootable preshot, you want to reduce a bit.

Have I completely confused you?
 
It is best if you can post when you get a number you wonder about but I think our time zones are off so I wanted to give you some options.

The good news is that one unit is working very well and a dose reduction could be in his future.
 
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