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Danette & Esmeralda

Danette & Esmeralda

Member Since 2010
Good Morning Guys,

I have a quick question, when does Esmeralda's back legs get better, now she wont even jump on anything. They are so shakey, its breaking my heart. I had to board her over last weekend, and she has gotten worse, I even took issue w/the vet (boarder) to make sure they gave her, her insulin 2xs a day. They assured me they did, but she has gotten worse. Is it because her numbers are to high? The Vet said she wanted to see Esmeralda's numbers between 200-400.

I dont want her to give up, or loose her will.

Thanxs

Danette
 
Your cat maybe experiencing diabetic Neuropathy, where the back legs get weak...Can also have front leg involvement, but it is more common in the back legs--Of course there could be something else, but your vet should be aware--
The neuropathy can be reversed when the cat gets regulated on insulin AND we have found great success by giving our cats
Methylcobalamin Known as Methyl B12, which helps so much with neuropathy- My cat has neuropathy and was helped by this & regulation.

I see you are feeding your cat DM wet and Dry food--Sorry to contradict your vet, but they are high in carbs, possibly keeping your cat's BG's High! You need to use a low carb food--that will help so much-I see you have visited here, but need to be a member posting everyday will help.-Please read the Stickys at the top of the page of lantus--especially the info for newbies and find Janet & Binky's food charts--
They are chocked full of info.
 
Thank you, its hard to change her food, I dont want her to get worse.

I did find Neuropathy, and fax'd over to the vet less than 2min ago, I am extremely frustrated, and have considered a second opinion. I know she's diabetic, but Im not sure she is getting the attention she needs.
 
I agree with Roni. Most vets aren't aware of or don't buy into this regulation protocol, but it works. Just this past 2 weeks two kitties are off their insulin. Please think about coming on board the support and knowledge are here to help you. I'm new and my kitty is so much better than he was when I was doing what my vet said to. Hope you stay :smile:
 
You have been giving the same dose of insulin for a month instead of raising the dosage per the protocol.
If on Lantus, you should increase by .50 dose if reading naidrs are over 300.
Look at the sticky with the Lantus dosing protocol and how long to stay at each dosing.
 
((((((Net)))))) You have found a wonderful resource here. As second opinion is always a good option if you have concerns. Many vets are not well informed of FD and other chronic diseases in cats. It is just one aspect of training that covers numerous species and conditions.

This site has a wealth of information on neuropathy http://laurieulrich.com/jasper/index.html

Often changing the food is the hardest part of dealing with FD, but it is as important as using insulin properly. Many cats go from unregulated, to regulated to remission very quickly once they are on a low carbohydrate diet. If you have other cats these foods are the healthiest for them as well.We have all been through this and are here to help.

Can you let us know where you are? There may be someone nearby who can help.
 
I know from personal experience that it can be hard to question a vet. But vets sometimes don't know enough about feline diabetes. They spend very little time in school on this disease, and that may have been some time ago.

My Kitty spent four months eating the wrong food and getting the wrong dosage. He had severe neuropathy. But we found this website, and with their help, we got Kitty to remission.

There are so many people here with so much experience. They will help you talk to your vet with the best questions, gather the right data, and get your kitty -- whom you obviously love very much -- onto the right treatment plan.

That means changing her food, home testing, and learning to find the right dose through understanding how the insulin she gets is affecting her.

Neuropathy can be healed. Get the glucose under control, and it will improve.

And as Roni suggested, methylcobalamine (the only version of B12 appropriate for kitties) can help too.

Please post often. You are in the right place!
 
Welcome Danette and Esmeralda! You've gotten some good advice so far, so I just wanted to say hello and please keep posting here every day. These folks are the best! My Muffin is one of the kitties mentioned earlier who is off of insulin altogether right now, and I never would have gotten her to this point if I had just done what my vet said (don't get me wrong, I love my vet) and not listened to the very knowledgeable and supportive people here. We owe all our success to this board and it's wonderful members!
 
Best spot to be is here along with developing a good listening relationship and open communication with your vet.

My Khan has neuropathy.. was walking on his hocks. I read that webpage you were directed to, i ordered the product and Khan is doing much better-still working on decreasing his BG and high hopes his neuropathy will continue to improve. He is on 3mg twice a day.
 
Thanks guys soooo much,

I did just order some Xobaline sublingual tablets for Esmeralda. I also ordered her (Petco has this locally, next time), Merrick Cowboy Cookout Canned Cat Food. She does mow on dry food, and the lowest Innova EVO Cat & Kitten Food, Wellness Core, or Purina DM. Right now she is on Purina DM. I figured a lil at a time, first I will switch her over to the Merrick, and her Xobaline, see how she does, the attempt to change her dry food out.

I did fax over "Jasper's Story" to the vet. Still havent gotten a phone call back, but thats ok, I ordered it anyways.
 
Danette,

About switching from dry to wet food:

As Ann said, "Often changing the food is the hardest part of dealing with FD, but it is as important as using insulin properly. Many cats go from unregulated, to regulated to remission very quickly once they are on a low carbohydrate diet."

What that means is that Esmeralda's blood glucose (BG)could DROP when you remove the dry food. That means that her current dose could end up being TOO HIGH.

ETA: Dummy me. You ARE home testing! The very best thing to do is begin home testing before you introduce the new diet. That way, you know how her blood glucose is reacting to the lower-carb food, and you'll be able to lower the dose appropriately.

What is her BG now, by the way?
You're going to do great!
 
Right now, Esmeralda is on Purina DM Wet Canned Food 2xs a day, and she just grazes on Purina DM hard food. I feed her aprox 1/2 hr b4 I test her, and give her, her insulin. This morning at 7am she was at BG 369.
 
Net said:
The vet, says to keep her between 200-400, you guys are suggesting 100-200 for Esmeralda's numbers?
Click to expand...

Frankly, 200-400 is considered high here. Take a look at the regular postings; you'll see many cats have numbers below 100. They are able to shoot insulin at those low numbers because they have good records of home tests -- that is, they're "data ready."

Another thing to notice is that most of us use human meters. The vet uses a feline-calibrated meter, which tends to give numbers a little higher than the human meters. Even so, 400 is a high glucose range.

Vets often keep cats at a higher BG when owners aren't home testing, because they want to prevent the animals from going too LOW, which carries its own risks. But if you are home testing, you can control that risk. That lets you keep her BG in a lower range, which lets her pancreas begin to heal.

Check back later today when some of our really experienced people are online. You'll get great information!
 
I'm sorry, I didn't read your original post well or spreadsheet well enough. :oops: I see that you are home testing, and you're feeding wet food.

What you want to do is move to the lower-carb wet food. Good luck with Merricks.

You might want to consider testing and giving the shot BEFORE you feed her. Many of us either don't feed the two hours before the test, or feed while we're giving the shot.

The reason is that within 1/2 hour, the food can start to raise the BG. That means the number you get when you test can be reflecting the food. It isn't as clear a test as you would like to have.
 
I did fax over "Jasper's Story" to the vet. Still havent gotten a phone call back, but thats ok, I ordered it anyways.
Click to expand...
That's the spirit! Remember the vet works for YOU. Just as you would get a second opinion on your own health, you can do the same for your vet.

Many vets are afraid of liability if they "allow" lower numbers. It is all a matter of how much effort you are willing and able to put into monitoring if you try to bring you cat not just into regulation, but remission. Numbers under 200 give the pancreas a chance to heal and eventually start producing insulin on it's own. Many vets either believe this is not possible or that we are incapable of keeping our cats out of the danger zone. One of our mottos is "shoot low to stay low" . With diligence it can be done, but it takes a lot of time and work. Our cats are the healthier for it too.

OK, we just cross posted. Yes, be very careful of dropping BGs as you transition to dry foods. If you are already giving insulin, slowly changing the food and monitoring BG is the way to go.

Always test before feeding. BG levels can start rising within 20 minutes of feeding. We usually remove food for 2 hours before doing out pre shot test to make sure there is no immediate food influence on the reading. I find it helpful to test, feed and shoot the insulin as Tess is eating. She usually doesn't notice the shot when she is chowing down!

Busy condo, we all keep cross posting.
 
Net said:
Have you guys heard of any side effects to Xobaline - B12, for cats?
Click to expand...

In a word... no. Many, many of us use it without any side effects. One of the things discussed is the form the methylcobalamine is delivered in. There are some brands that MAY contain traces of sugar, I think (someone correct me). That's one of the reasons the Xobaline form is used, because it has nothing like that in the ingredients.

I used a liquid form from Pure Encapsulations. I liked it because I could easily mix it into Kitty's food.

I believe that methylcobalamine is water soluble, so whatever isn't used by the body is flushed out.
 
Maverick was a 100% kibble grazer before his diabetes diagnosis in Dec/Jan. We switched him to low carb wet food and was able to manage his diabetes with diet alone. It was NOT an easy transition. I had to assist feed him with a syringe to prevent his weight from dropping too much. He recovered from FHL in 2008 and we never want to deal with that again. I wonder if there is a sticky here that gives tips on converting to wet food. Maverick won't eat any of the "high end" stuff lol. There are low carb options on the grocery shelves too - don't discount it if your cat won't eat the higher end stuff.

With Maverick he initially would only eat wet food warmed up a bit and blended into a soupy slurry. We added less and less water but it took a long time for him to eat canned food. Kind of gagged on the texture if it wasn't blended. Or he'd just keep trying to lick it and then walk away.
 
When Gabby was first diagnosed and before I arrived at FDMB, my vet suggested I feed Purina DM (canned or dry) or Hills MD. I first found a website authored by a vet (Lisa Pierson, DVM), that discussed feline nutrition in depth. I went back to my vet's office with cases and bags of food and asked for a refund. I explained to my vet that I could find food that was equivalent or lower in carbs and at least as high in protein that was better quality and cost less. The vet didn't argue. She knew that I understood what the purpose of the food she prescribed was. (If you look at the ingredients of DM, it's primarily animal by-products.) Janet & Binky's food charts will provide you with a lot of choices for foods that are lower in carbs and better quality than DM.

The feline nutrition site that I linked above also has very good information on how to transition a cat from dry to canned food. When you decide to transition, you will need to test more often than what you are currently doing. Esmeralda's numbers could drop quickly once dry is no longer present.

I agree with what Kathy/Kitty said -- BGs in the 200 - 400 range are too high. Above 250 is likely to be above your cat's renal threshold. If your vet's goal is to have Esmeralda surf at around 300, you are, in the long run, risking kidney damage. For the kitties here who are following a tight regulation protocol, dose decreases are earned when numbers drop below 50. The protocol has published veterinary research behind it and it is safe.

I would also encourage you to test a bit more often. It's great that you are routinely getting pre-shot tests. However, Lantus differs from other kinds of insulin -- it's dosing is based on the nadir, or low point, of the cycle. If you don't get spot checks or do a curve, you won't know when the nadir is and you won't know whether to change the dose. At this point, I would be reticent to make any suggestions regarding dose without some mid-cycle spot checks.

Like yourself, I'm a little concerned that your vet may not be entirely conversant with how Lantus is used. Many vets treat Lantus like other, shorter acting types of insulin. It's dosing strategy is entirely different. You could always print out the Rand/University of Queensland protocol that we use for your vet. If your vet gives you a hard time, then maybe asking here or on the Health Board if anyone has a vet they'd recommend who's in your area may be a good strategy for a second opinion.
 
Net said:
Right now, Esmeralda is on Purina DM Wet Canned Food 2xs a day, and she just grazes on Purina DM hard food. I feed her aprox 1/2 hr b4 I test her, and give her, her insulin. This morning at 7am she was at BG 369.
Click to expand...
I really must agree with the other advice - it really would be best for your kitty, to stop the grazing on the dry food - that dry food is absolutely LOADED with Carbs even if it is "prescription" food. Just cutting out that will almost CERTAINLY help bring her BGs down and as the others have said, that may well mean you will need to reduce the Dose of insulin. Please get some mid-cycle tests done so you can tell what the LOW BG is - unless you do that your kitty could be at risk.

Do you have a Hypo Kit ready? If not please do as soon as possible! - you'll find help on that in the "Sticky" Posts at the top or click here: Hypo Toolkit
 
Hey Guys,

You have been such a big help today, thank you. I decieded to test our male cat (who is sooo healty), he tested at 68. So the vet telling me Esmeralda's numbers should be 200-400, is soooo off the grid.
Thank you again guys. Iam looking forward to getting the Xobaline for Esmeralda, and I also will be spot testing her, starting NOW.

Thank You
Danette
 
I found it difficult at first to not trust my vet. Until I realized that peeps here know much more :-D we changed vets and found one that is much more supportive. She will at least hear me out, read up (actually came to this site) and then give me her opinion. Fact his, numbers speak for themselves.

Tom had been on dry food for 15 years when I switched to wet. Took some convincing but eventually they were hungry enough... His insulin requirements dropped drastically.

They will get used to it.
 
Net said:
Hey Guys,

You have been such a big help today, thank you. I decieded to test our male cat (who is sooo healty), he tested at 68. So the vet telling me Esmeralda's numbers should be 200-400, is soooo off the grid.
Thank you again guys. Iam looking forward to getting the Xobaline for Esmeralda, and I also will be spot testing her, starting NOW.

Thank You
Danette
Click to expand...

That was so smart, Danette, to test you "civvie" (healthy kitty). You see the numbers for yourself! And now you are spot-testing.

You are on the road to getting Esmeralda healthy. :-D
 
Glad you took my advice with the xobaline--You can crush it up & put it into the cat food--I used it for a long time, now I use a different brand, does the same thing! See Danette, you need to be here daily working to get your furbaby better--
Hope you feel better now--We all help each other here & have a wealth of info...Glad you came--Welcome to Lantus land!
 
you're getting great info from the wise advisers here...just want to say welcome!
and to share this with you...binks would not still be with me if it weren't for us finding this board 3 months ago...and he is continually improving thanks to the help and support we've received here.

celi & binks
 
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