Shadow AMPS 373 +2 495 +5 372 + 8 317

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Shadow12345

Member Since 2014
Good Morning

Shadows condo
AMPS 373
+2 495
+5 372
+ 8 317
+9 ORO Antibiotic
+10 399


2 Negative Ketones throughout the nighttime. When I tested her at +8 I gave her some boiled chicken, she was NOT excited about her treats?! After her test I gave her 1/4 can of food as she seemed hungry. She did not eat much, then she vomited. She hasn't vomited since, maybe it was a random thing. She vomited about 1.5 weeks ago also. Not unusual for her to vomit, once in a while. But will keep an eye on it today. I am home all day with the Princess!

Having a hard time giving her the rest of her antibiotics, don't know what to do. I was thinking about taking her to the VET 2 reasons:

1- Possibly getting the liquid form of the Antibiotics
2- She has a small piece of poo stuck to her Anus, and I can not for the life of me remove it. I am afraid of infection

Will update my SS throughout the day for any feedback

Thanks :razz:
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 373

Oh, goodness. Shadow needs tons of prayers, and healing vines, and you've definitely got them.

I think the liquid form may be a bit easier to dose. I was against it in the beginning when we had Daisy, however, I did find it was much easier to give than to give pills. Pills can stick in the esophagus, which could cause gagging, which would cause the pill to be coughed back up.

I'm hoping that Shadows #s come down for you very soon, and that she surfs nicely. Have a good day!
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 373

I've always found liquids easier to deal with, unless you've got a cat who loves Pill Pockets and doesn't get suspicious about them. Maybe the ABs are causing Shadow some tummy upset? It always helps relieve some stress you can be home with them all day.

Have a great day, and I hope Shadow is feeling better!
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 373

HI guys .. sorry to hear about the throw up .. maybe a vetty visit would not be such a bad thing .. to help her and you feel better! Hang in there, things will start looking up soon .. have a great day!
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 373

Just got back from the vet. Shadow is disturbed! to say the least. Any who, they want me to increase her dosage to 2 units. I told them no, I tried that and I want to wait 3 more days to decide. Then they they said increase it to 1.5 units. I said no I want to wait 3 more days to decide. Bottome line, they kept pushing me to increase. I know my plan is to wait the complete 6 cycles. Which I plan to do and am comfortable with this decision.

They told me the human glucometer is not good for kitties. And will not give me accurate readings. I know the majority of people on here use human glucometers. Words of wisedom and encouragement would be gladly accepted right now. As I am feeling stressed with them telling me what I am doing is incorrect!
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 373

they usually want to sell you an alpha trak. very expensive and the strips have to be ordered, also expensive.

the human meter is good because you are watching patterns and ranges. What you can do with the vet when you visit is take your meter, and let them test with theirs,
you test with yours, and human meters are usually 30 lower than their numbers.
But you see the pattern, you establish it, and most vets start feeling okay with it after they see the consistency. That's why the "good numbers" on an alpha trak are 80-150.
and the human meter is 50 -120.

Vets aren't used to the way we micromanage feline diabetes. My vet was so surprised at how involved I was. They are used to so many people giving up, putting their cat to sleep and they treat cats the same way they treat dogs. Dog insulin doesn't do the same for dogs as what we do here.

You have the best advice here....
the most experience ....
and some vets are catching up, but most of them still are way behind what we do here.

You are doing the right thing.
It was because of everyone here that I am one of the lucky ones who got my Shadow in remission status. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 373

Be sure and add as much water as Shadow will eat to her foods. Especially with ab's....
that helps with flushing out the ketones. infection, dehydration, and high numbers as well as kitties prone to ketones all contribute and you definitely
have that issue to monitor.
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 373

My Vet suggested a human meter.

I wonder if your Vet is older. Mine is in her early 30's and graduated not to long ago. She said she learned about human meters being better in school.

Anyway I hope Shadow does better and you are Shadows only advocate and Mom! You love her! That's easy to see. :-D

Linda
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 373

Hi there :cool:

We use a human glucometer as well. Easier on the brain (no math involved ) and easier on the pocketbook.

Were you able to get the liquid ABs? It's extremely important to stamp out any infection.

Not sure if you saw this post in yesterdays thread. It is important information about dosing Shadow.
Jill & Alex said:
Sienne and Gabby said:
What Chris posted about the minimum time at a dose is partially correct. In the case of a kitty that's sitting in high numbers, especially if there's a history of ketones, we will often "fast track" the dose. There is actually another Lantus board, although it's located in Germany, and the version of Tight Regulation that they use allows for dose increases after 4 cycles/2 days. We look to see when nadirs that are below 300 start showing up routinely and then drop back to the more conservative method of holding the dose for at least 3 days/6 cycles. I think we're going to need to see what Shadow does tonight and tomorrow morning before deciding about the dose increase.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
i agree with sienne.

thinking ahead...
i was wondering if there's someone available to test shadow during the work week (during usual work hours).
i'm just trying to get an idea of your schedule because it might become a factor in making dosing suggestions.

just a reminder from your first thread on Health...
if she starts throwing ketones, please let us know right away. if kitties start to throw ketones, we'll often abandon conventional dosing guidelines to suggest more aggressive measures.
Click to expand...

Please give us an idea of your general availability to monitor during a typical day.

And i want to echo Jills message about ketones - if you detect even trace ketones present in her urine, let us know immediatley.
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 373

the vet is probably wanting to increase the dose because of the worry of ketones. i'm glad you're checking frequently for them - that's critical.

did you tell them Shadow got to 192 yesterday?

and yes, the human meter is fine. i'm sure they're just used to what they use. the animal meters are too expensive for most people to be able to test multiple times a day.
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 373

Hi Andrea & Shadow and welcome to Lantus Land!

I read through your posts on the "Health" Forum and I know that you and Shadow will get lots of terrific help and support here.

It is very common for antibiotics to cause stomach upset and therefore vomiting. If Shadow will take the liquid antibiotics more easily than the pills, then you should switch. But be warned that most cats don't like to take either form! Since you are giving antibiotics, it is important to also give a pro-biotic to counteract the havoc that antibiotics wreak on the digestive system (they kill all of the beneficial bacteria along with the harmful ones). FortiFlora is a common pro-biotic (you can buy it on Amazon or at your vet's). You sprinkle it on her wet food. Most cats love the taste of FortiFlora. If Shadow will eat dairy, you can also try feeding a little plain yogurt with active cultures.

You are doing great job advocating for your cat. Many vets don't understand how the newer insulins like Lantus and Levemir work. My previous diabetic cat, Stu, was severely overdosed by his vet (raising him by 2-unit increments every week). We almost lost him and would have if we hadn't found this Board.

The human meters work just fine for cats. As long as your vet understands that your readings will be lower than if the blood glucose reading was taken on an Alpha Trak, there shouldn't be any problem. As long as you use one meter consistently, you will see the patterns and know how to interpret them.

Feline Diabetes is complex and often perplexing, but everyone here will try their best to help you get it all sorted out.

Welcome!!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 373

[/quote]


thinking ahead...
i was wondering if there's someone available to test shadow during the work week (during usual work hours).
i'm just trying to get an idea of your schedule because it might become a factor in making dosing suggestions.

just a reminder from your first thread on Health...
if she starts throwing ketones, please let us know right away. if kitties start to throw ketones, we'll often abandon conventional dosing guidelines to suggest more aggressive measures.[/quote]

Please give us an idea of your general availability to monitor during a typical day.

And i want to echo Jills message about ketones - if you detect even trace ketones present in her urine, let us know immediatley.[/quote]

Hi There!

As far as availability throughout the day to monitor Shadow. Sat & Sun my husband is home & Mon & Thurs I am home. However on Tues & Wed I can sneak home for a BG check around 2. Unfortunately No one lives near us, We live in NH.
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 373

Hi There!

As far as availability throughout the day to monitor Shadow. Sat & Sun my husband is home & Mon & Thurs I am home. However on Tues & Wed I can sneak home for a BG check around 2. Unfortunately No one lives near us, We live in NH.
 
Sienne and Gabby wrote:
What Chris posted about the minimum time at a dose is partially correct. In the case of a kitty that's sitting in high numbers, especially if there's a history of ketones, we will often "fast track" the dose. There is actually another Lantus board, although it's located in Germany, and the version of Tight Regulation that they use allows for dose increases after 4 cycles/2 days. We look to see when nadirs that are below 300 start showing up routinely and then drop back to the more conservative method of holding the dose for at least 3 days/6 cycles. I think we're going to need to see what Shadow does tonight and tomorrow morning before deciding about the dose increase.

What should be my plan of action?
I am nervous about increasing dosage tonight because Tuesday & Wednseday. No one can be home with her all day :sad:
However is we are ready for that then I would want to increase the dose! AHH

Please help me plan this out. I still can not see a complete pattern from her SS

Also, if I do go the route similar to the "Fast Track" will there be another board to join? Still new to this so wasn't sure!

Thank you for everyones opinion & guidance we appreciate all the help :smile:
 
Also, if I do go the route similar to the "Fast Track" will there be another board to join?
Click to expand...

No, I think you're misunderstanding what Sienne said...the German "Board" isn't another place you have to join/post in. The TR Protocol they use just says that for cats prone to ketones or stuck at high numbers, it's fine to go ahead and increase every 4 cycles instead of every 6

It does look like Shadow is going to need more, but whether you increase or not has to be your decision depending on your comfort level when you can't be home to test.

Will you be able to get any tests in on Tue/Wed or will you only be able to get the pre-shot? Can you sneak home to get a mid-cycle?
 
Shadow12345 said:
What should be my plan of action?
I am nervous about increasing dosage tonight because Tuesday & Wednseday. No one can be home with her all day :sad:
However is we are ready for that then I would want to increase the dose! AHH

Please help me plan this out. I still can not see a complete pattern from her SS

hi andrea.

since shadow is not throwing ketones at the moment there's no urgency to increasing the dose. imho there are a couple of paths open to you. you can be proactive by increasing the dose tonight or you can hold the dose for a full 6 cycles before increasing the dose.

having a ketone prone cat myself, my choice would be to increase the dose by 0.25 unit tonight or tomorrow morning. i think it's obvious shadow will require more insulin and yet 0.25u is a conservative increase considering her history. personally, i prefer to be proactive in keeping ketones at bay, but that's just me. i don't like to have ketones develop in the first place. imo, an increase of 0.25u shouldn't take shadow into dangerous territory. however, since no one will be available to stay home with her on tuesday and wednesday, you might want to hold off on the increase until tomorrow morning. you'll be home to monitor wednesday night and thursday. by then we should have a good idea of what 1.25u can do.

my thoughts are based on data collected up to +8 today and the absence of ketones. if there are any dramatic changes between now and shot time i'd have to rethink my suggestion. i'm also basing this suggestion on the assumption shadow is eating well and will have food available to her when you're gone.

Also, if I do go the route similar to the "Fast Track" will there be another board to join? Still new to this so wasn't sure!

you can stay right here! you're in the best spot you can be when it comes to fast-tracking. :mrgreen:

Thank you for everyones opinion & guidance we appreciate all the help :smile:

you're welcome.



just my thoughts. i'm pretty proactive and therefore aggressive when it comes to even a mention of ketones. although, in the absence of actively throwing ketones... i do feel the suggestions i'm offering for shadow are very much on the conservative side of aggressive... if that makes sense. :-D

let's see what the others who have dealt with ketones and DKA have to say...

Click to expand...
 
Jill & Alex said:
Shadow12345 said:
What should be my plan of action?
I am nervous about increasing dosage tonight because Tuesday & Wednseday. No one can be home with her all day :sad:
However is we are ready for that then I would want to increase the dose! AHH

Please help me plan this out. I still can not see a complete pattern from her SS

hi andrea.

since shadow is not throwing ketones at the moment there's no urgency to increasing the dose. imho there are a couple of paths open to you. you can be proactive by increasing the dose tonight or you can hold the dose for a full 6 cycles before increasing the dose.

having a ketone prone cat myself, my choice would be to increase the dose by 0.25 unit tonight or tomorrow morning. i think it's obvious shadow will require more insulin and yet 0.25u is a conservative increase considering her history. personally, i prefer to be proactive in keeping ketones at bay, but that's just me. i don't like to have ketones develop in the first place. imo, an increase of 0.25u shouldn't take shadow into dangerous territory. however, since no one will be available to stay home with her on tuesday and wednesday, you might want to hold off on the increase until tomorrow morning. you'll be home to monitor wednesday night and thursday. by then we should have a good idea of what 1.25u can do.

my thoughts are based on data collected up to +8 today and the absence of ketones. if there are any dramatic changes between now and shot time i'd have to rethink my suggestion. i'm also basing this suggestion on the assumption shadow is eating well and will have food available to her when you're gone.

Also, if I do go the route similar to the "Fast Track" will there be another board to join? Still new to this so wasn't sure!

you can stay right here! you're in the best spot you can be when it comes to fast-tracking. :mrgreen:

Thank you for everyones opinion & guidance we appreciate all the help :smile:

you're welcome.



just my thoughts. i'm pretty proactive and therefore aggressive when it comes to even a mention of ketones. although, in the absence of actively throwing ketones... i do feel the suggestions i'm offering for shadow are very much on the conservative side of aggressive... if that makes sense. :-D

let's see what the others who have dealt with ketones and DKA have to say...

Click to expand...
Click to expand...

contemplating what to do!!!!!!! ahhhh nailbite_smile
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 373 +2 495 +5 372 + 8 317 PMPS 305

Hello All,

I decided to go up .25 on Shadows Insulin. Very difficult to draw up .25 . She ate a good amount of Dinner tonight! Yum

I will be sure to keep a good eye on her with tests tonight.
 
Yes, those .25's are tough, but what's most important is for you to be consistent, so it's the same each time.

You might want to look into using calipers. A lot of people here use them. Marje has a post on Dosing with calipers that might be helpful

Good luck with the dosecrease!!
 
as Chris said, the important thing on the dose is to be consistent from one time to the next. some people draw up a sample dose in a used syringe using colored water (or tea, coffee, flat colored pop) and keep it on the counter to compare it to.

i think it was a good call to increase the dose. not sure what time you shoot in the morning before you leave, but if you have time to get a +2 before you go to work, that can be very helpful. generally in an "active" lantus cycle the +2 is around the same as the preshot. From the New to the Group yellow starred sticky:

Example of an active Lantus cycle:

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
+12 - PreShot number.
Click to expand...

Conversely, if Shadow's +2 is significantly lower than the preshot that can mean that she's headed for a significantly lower dip. Your best tool for handling the cycle is food (carbs) . So when you leave tomorrow, leave out plenty of food and water available to her, even if it's more than she'd normally eat. Many cats will go eat if they feel their blood sugar dropping.

I want to repeat what has already been said - if she'll eat food with water added to it, add as much as she'll tolerate.

So glad to hear she ate a good dinner! How does she seem to be feeling?

Are you getting the AB's down her ok?
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
as Chris said, the important thing on the dose is to be consistent from one time to the next. some people draw up a sample dose in a used syringe using colored water (or tea, coffee, flat colored pop) and keep it on the counter to compare it to.

i think it was a good call to increase the dose. not sure what time you shoot in the morning before you leave, but if you have time to get a +2 before you go to work, that can be very helpful. generally in an "active" lantus cycle the +2 is around the same as the preshot. From the New to the Group yellow starred sticky:

Example of an active Lantus cycle:

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
+12 - PreShot number.
Click to expand...

Conversely, if Shadow's +2 is significantly lower than the preshot that can mean that she's headed for a significantly lower dip. Your best tool for handling the cycle is food (carbs) . So when you leave tomorrow, leave out plenty of food and water available to her, even if it's more than she'd normally eat. Many cats will go eat if they feel their blood sugar dropping.

I want to repeat what has already been said - if she'll eat food with water added to it, add as much as she'll tolerate.

So glad to hear she ate a good dinner! How does she seem to be feeling?

Are you getting the AB's down her ok?
Click to expand...


Hello,

AMPS will be at 7:00 tomorrow and I will test her 2 hours after at 9:00 to ensure she is okay. I will be home at 2:30 to test her again
I will leave out food & water to ensure she can try to help herself if she feels the need! She gobbled up her liquid ABs!!!!! :-D we'll see how long that lasts!
I have been adding a lot of water to her food, almost to soup consistency and she doesn't seem to mind!

Will set up a syringe with colored H20 to mimic!
 
Chris & China said:
Yes, those .25's are tough, but what's most important is for you to be consistent, so it's the same each time.

You might want to look into using calipers. A lot of people here use them. Marje has a post on Dosing with calipers that might be helpful

Good luck with the dosecrease!!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice will look into this to help with consistency!
 
I hate to throw a screw in the works, but I've been researching the oral antibiotic, Orbax Suspension

It's got a malt flavoring which I have to think may contain sugar. Might want to check with your vet.
 
Chris & China said:
I hate to throw a screw in the works, but I've been researching the oral antibiotic, Orbax Suspension

It's got a malt flavoring which I have to think may contain sugar. Might want to check with your vet.
Click to expand...


Will call today! Thank you
 
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