Shaak's first shot given.

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Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

Member Since 2016
if my cat is allowed to eat up to 5/8 of a cup of food every day then I divide that up to 2.5/8 of a cup for each meal, how much of it should she have to finish in order for me to give her the injection would you think?

She weighs 11.2 lbs and takes one unit of insulin 2 times a day.
 
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Cathie, I was posting about this on your other thread when you started this post. Hopefully someone else will chime in but getting a response may be difficult because 99.9% of the cats here are on wet food so volumes of kibble is not something commonly needed or considered. Please see my other note but based on my experience with my girl, I seriously think you may have to split the food in half and see how much Shaak will eat in one sitting and go with that amount. I'm betting she won't eat 2.5/8 of cup in one sitting.
 
That sounds like a very interesting technique. Instead of using volumes, why not use weights and the metric system? Electronic scales are inexpensive. The most common cooking scale has a readability of 1 gram (g), but you can also obtain them with readabilities of 1/10 g, 1/100 g, and even 1/1000 g. It's useful to know the weights of your dishes in advance, but not absolutely essential. You would also need a calculator, unless you have your spreadsheet within easy reach.

In thinking about this, you could weigh out any food, then weigh what they didn't finish, subtracting the latter from the former, and you'd know the weight of food they actually consumed. I guess it would be a little complicated when they would eat wet food and dry food, because there'd also be a ratio between those two. I wonder if this technique would be more trouble than it's worth? It would be another set of data points to track. Cats tend to be creatures of habit.
 
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Since Novolin is a harsher insulin you want to have as much food on board as possible, to buffer the steep drop so common early in the cycle. If my guy finishes half or more of his meal I will go ahead and shoot, but he's been on insulin for over 6 months and I've learned how his system handles it. Also, don't know about amounts of kibble since mine eats canned and raw. I would imagine the kibble digests slower so he may need to eat more prior to his shot, to stay safe.
 
@Ken & Tara -

When making the switchover from all dry to all wet food I did all the weighing you describe above (in grammes) so that I could learn how much to feed Saoirse - I didn't have a clue. It was also invaluable to keep a log with that level of detail when I had to nurse her through a bad pancreatitis flare both in terms of ensuring she was getting enough nutrition every day and also to have as a record to refer back to when her symptoms have worsened at times since then so I know what helped her in the past. It would also be helpful to maintain a detailed log if moving to a homemade diet, again to gauge how much to feed to reach/maintain ideal weight.


Mogs
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thank you all. great information for me. Having a rough start, can't even get blood to check, poked poor girl 4 times and no blood. Warmed and rubbed ear and everything. Highest poke setting as well. I have called a member here in town and we are going to try to get together. I was so nervous about the injection, right now I think she will be fine with pokes and injection, she barely got upset at all when I poked her the four times. Main issue is to get blood so can get a bg level and then inject at appropriate time, which will be tonight, rather than now, too late past eating to give injection now and don't want to give insulin until I have a base bg level to go by.
 
You are well on your way! Baby steps! Kitty ears bleed better with time so this will get so much easier. Good to hear Shaak was being very tolerant about the testing despite multiple attempts.:cat: Marje will be able to give you lots of tips and tricks. You are in good hands. :)
 
Hi Cathie! I'm a huge Star Wars fan, so I love your kitty's name! I even have a little Shaak Ti lego figure on my keychain! I'm also a big fan of Ahsoka Tano. :-)

Just in case you hadn't seen this yet, I wanted to share this document with you: http://catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf
Some cats are very stubborn, and there are a few that refuse to transition despite all efforts, but it's certainly worth the work to try and get them off the dry food. However, it's very important you don't attempt any food changes until you're comfortable with home testing, because a change in the diet can cause blood glucose levels to drop several hundred points, making the current insulin dose too high. Novolin is an especially harsh and potentially dangerous insulin in this regard, which is why it's not recommended for cats.

You're doing a great job so far learning how to home test! It's a bit of a struggle at first, but once you get the hang of it, it will be second nature. :-)
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I'm not sure it needs to be quite that precise ...
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When feeding very frequent, tiny meals (e.g. during an IBD/pancreatitis flare) working in grammes is extremely helpful. For example, some of Saoirse's meals were only 8g when I was feeding her hourly round the clock. That said, when you have worked out how much to feed it's then helpful for some food types to work out how many grammes there are in, say, a tablespoonful 'cause it makes it quicker and easier to measure out food on a day-to-day basis.


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
When feeding very frequent, tiny meals (e.g. during an IBD/pancreatitis flare) working in grammes is extremely helpful. For example, some of Saoirse's meals were only 8g when I was feeding her hourly round the clock. That said, when you have worked out how much to feed it's then helpful for some food types to work out how many grammes there are in, say, a tablespoonful 'cause it makes it quicker and easier to measure out food on a day-to-day basis.
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I never thought about it that way but then I have thankfully never had to deal with pancreatitis (antijinx) where this would obviously be a far more critical to avoid overloading the system. I really was just thinking in terms of whether Shaak got enough food on board for her shot and in that case I didn't think a tiny bit here or there would have a big impact but I could be wrong. And then there is the fact that I am dealing with a kibble addict so if worse comes to worse, I can just count kibble bits! :woot::banghead: (trying to keep my sense of humour about our food situation here!)
 
:) thank you. Marje came over and stayed and helped me learn some things for a couple of hours today. She was so wonderful and Shaak really liked her a lot. I think I am ready for tonight and my first lone draw and injection.

There was a bit of a crazy moment when Marje did Shaak's first BG, it was 162 which raised an interesting flag since she had not had any insulin yet and yesterday at the vet Shaak's BG was 614. Marje got her meter and rechecked and it was 375. So while the lower number was a happy thing it turned out to not be accurate. She suggested I get a different meter. I had gotten it at Wal-greens and she suggested the reli-on micro at Wal-Mart, so I did that and now just waiting till tonight after feeding. Shaak did eat all of her morning meal so I have high hopes she will eat most of the evening one as well.
 
So glad you Marje was able to help you out. What's the name of the meter that gave the low reading? Did you retest to make sure it wasn't a bad strip? That's a huge difference that would be dangerous for man or cat!
 
it was the Wal-Greens TrueResult meter. We did not attempt another draw with that meter. I am going to see if they will take the other one back, even though I used it, I guess I could take a reading with it again just to be sure before I contact Wal-Greens. Yes, definitely a huge difference. I was entertaining thoughts that Shaak had regulated overnight with her diet change. I have always loved fantasy.:woot:o_O:oops:
 
We all love those fantasies but that's all they are! I read somewhere on this board that meters with "true" in the name have a reputation of reading really low so I guess that pretty much proves it! I'm amazed that they can get away with that kind of a variance though.
 
That's so awesome that Marje was able to help you today! Learning to test was the most frustrating part for me. Good catch on the meter!
Cathie and Shaak Ti said:
it was the Wal-Greens TrueResult meter. We did not attempt another draw with that meter. I am going to see if they will take the other one back, even though I used it, I guess I could take a reading with it again just to be sure before I contact Wal-Greens. Yes, definitely a huge difference. I was entertaining thoughts that Shaak had regulated overnight with her diet change. I have always loved fantasy.:woot:o_O:oops:
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It is doubtful that any store will accept return of a blood-related product. I think you'll have to contact the manufacturer, which you should find info for on the packaging. If you tell them how far off it is from your other meter there's a good chance they'll send you a refund. Tip: don't mention that you're using it for a pet.
 
Andy & Pimp said:
That's so awesome that Marje was able to help you today! Learning to test was the most frustrating part for me. Good catch on the meter!

It is doubtful that any store will accept return of a blood-related product. I think you'll have to contact the manufacturer, which you should find info for on the packaging. If you tell them how far off it is from your other meter there's a good chance they'll send you a refund. Tip: don't mention that you're using it for a pet.
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You are right on all those ideas. Thank you for advice.
 
Ken & Tara said:
That sounds like a very interesting technique. Instead of using volumes, why not use weights and the metric system? Electronic scales are inexpensive. The most common cooking scale has a readability of 1 gram (g), but you can also obtain them with readabilities of 1/10 g, 1/100 g, and even 1/1000 g. It's useful to know the weights of your dishes in advance, but not absolutely essential. You would also need a calculator, unless you have your spreadsheet within easy reach.

In thinking about this, you could weigh out any food, then weigh what they didn't finish, subtracting the latter from the former, and you'd know the weight of food they actually consumed. I guess it would be a little complicated when they would eat wet food and dry food, because there'd also be a ratio between those two. I wonder if this technique would be more trouble than it's worth? It would be another set of data points to track. Cats tend to be creatures of habit.
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I'd keep it simple at this stage. You don't need to make this any harder than it already can be. Once you've settled into testing and shooting, you can think about how much food is how many calories and how much to feed when. But right now, just be sure she has plenty of food on board before shooting but not so full that she won't eat later if you need her to.

The other thing with the Walgreens meter is it requires a much larger sample than the Micro.
 
okay, shot given. the only thing I forgot was to keep the plunger pressed down hard after I inserted the needle. Then when pulled the needle out I pushed the plunger to see if I got it all and there was a tiny drop that poked out (teetiny). I really feel it was very successful though. She did not get upset at all, she was very relaxed Now can relax for the next 2 hours and then take next draw. I am going to do some reading about BG testing right now. Will check back in a little while to see if anyone is as happy for Shaak and me as I am.
 
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Great job!!! Of course we are all happy with and for you and Shaak!! Don't worry about the plunger...it is what it is for tonight. Good luck with the +2 test! It should be two hours after the shot...not two hours after you fed prior to the shot, k?
 
is there a link for the food chart to pick out a suitable dry and wet emergency food for Hypo. No, don't need it, I just want to have it. I may have already received a link for it but I can't seem to find it. I have chart for low carb foods, just not emergency hypo foods.
 
I am headed to bed, Cathie. If you need help, post first on Health and if no one is up, go to the Lantus/levemir forum and post there for help. Anyone with experience can help you deal with low numbers no matter the insulin.

Here's some info from the primer Andy linked for you:

When curving on N for the *first time*, in my opinion, it is good to check bg's at +2, +3, +4, +5 and again at +6. This will tell you exactly where your peak is. After the numbers start to rise, you can go back to every two hour checks. This is not the only way to do a curve; it is just my opinion on how to do your first with a new insulin, especially one as fast acting as N.

Until you have a chance to curve, I do not recommend giving the shot at bg’s under 300 simply because you do not know yet how much of a drop you are going to get. I have sat up all night on hypo watch with several folks who were new and thus had not curved yet, only to find out their cat dropped 200 on a single unit…not good when preshots was 250.
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If she drops more than 100 by +2, I'd check hourly until she heads up which would hopefully be by +5 or +6. If she doesn't drop much by +2, maybe set an alarm and check her at +4 or +5. Of course,mid anyone with N experience comes on tonight and gives you other suggestions, I'd follow them.

In the morning, if you get a 200 at preshot, don't shoot. Post here. If you get between 200 and 300, and if you can test as suggested in the quote above, I'd shoot and get the data to identify her nadir (lowest number of the cycle).

Sound good?
 
Cathie and Shaak Ti said:
is there a link for the food chart to pick out a suitable dry and wet emergency food for Hypo. No, don't need it, I just want to have it. I may have already received a link for it but I can't seem to find it. I have chart for low carb foods, just not emergency hypo foods.
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I sent it to you in a PM. Sorry...did it 30 mins ago and thought I hit "post" but didn't.

Pls be sure and read my post to you above this one. I'll check back in ten minutes to see if you have any questions.
 
100 points from PMPS. So if she drops to 225 by +2.

You might find later...as you get more data...that 100 mg/dL is not a big deal for her but since we don't know, we need to be safe.
 
You can test sooner than an hour if you'd like, I certainly wouldn't wait any longer than 1 hour.

I will be awake and checking in every 30 minutes or so :)

Make sure you post if you need anything
 
Andy, I'm out of here for the night in a few minutes, but I just noticed Katie and Dinah's thread. I took a look at Dinah's spreadsheet and noticed she'd given a 47 at her +2. I've commented on her post, but would you be able to take a look in on it to see if she gets back with any more numbers please...I'm a little concerned at Dinah going low so early in the cycle, although I know she's on one of the insulins that usually hits hard and fast. Thread is here http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/need-help-regulating-dinah.152082/

@Cathie and Shaak Ti - sorry to hijack your thread. I just want to make sure no-one gets missed if there are cats running a little low tonight.
 
For right now, I think we would like to keep her over 100. She will be safe all the way down to 50 or lower, but we try to stay away from there with new kitties
 
Cathie and Shaak Ti said:
another question, if BG went down to 50 I know to rub some karo on her gums, then food, how much food?
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50 is still pretty safe, just not for new kitties or those eating dry food. My non diabetic cat routinely test around 45 to 50.

That said if you get a number too low, -you want to keep Shaak over 90 since she eats kibble- you will feed a small amount of gravy from high carb food, no more than one or two teaspoons. Depending how low you may want to add karo or another simple sugar. The process then is to test every 20 minutes and continue feeding small amounts until sugars raise the back to an acceptable level
 
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+4 190 so she has already going back up 47. The thread about Novolin said you could hit your low BG between 2 and 6 hours. So normal to hit low at +3 I guess, but I also guess she should have gone lower. Guess my worry should be the other way, she didn't go low enough.
 
It's ok, it will take some time to get her dose dialed in. You did great tonight!

Get some sleep and we'll see you in the morning, if preshot test is under 300 tomorrow morning make sure to start a new thread and ask for help.
 
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