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if we are all so good at helping newbie's here than how did fluffmeister slip thru the cracks of our care??? did anyone advise on her ss? this poor kitty and bean were needing some help long before now. newbie's here? we obviously have not done our job. myself included.
 
I know, my heart sank when I saw the dose this am. I don't know where Rose started - health or here. After this hypo, we can ask. I helped her set up her spreadsheet. I know we have bugged her about not having enough numbers, which is why she was doing the curve today. But obviously, that basic thing about no shot under 200 got missed.

I do know there are people who read only their posts and don't post often. We see that on Health too. We think we give the person the basics when they post the first time. Then they may not post again until they are having a hypo or their cat has completely stopped eating. You can't make people post. Some are right there with us from the beginning and continue to check it. They are the ones that get all the bases covered. I don't know what to do about the ones that don't post often enough. Part of it is probably their time - some may be the complexity of the site.
 
I don't believe she ever posted in health at all, came right here. did'nt even know how to put on the attention getting 911 and was in full hypo mode by +2
see, this makes me KNOW why newbie's need the rounded education you get in health...poor girl. her first responders were all the health people...she may have been on her own becuase she may not have even known she could cross post in health cat(2)_steam
 
she has been posting sue, but only here and apparently without much help...guilty as charged. i only adopt one or 2 at a time as i have a poorly functioning brain and can only follow so many stories.
 
She didn't post on Health this am or previously. She has been posting on PZI since the first of January: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=33765&p=351907#p351907 We covered a lot of the bases for her, looks like. Just not the dose one.......

Ruth, in case you see this thread. We have been debating how to best serve newbies, give them all the info they need without overwhelming them. We are feeling bad that we didn't give you more info on how much insulin to give at the lower numbers.
 
had she been asked to post on health by US she would have had more options and more folks who knew her this morning.
WE did not ask her to be a newbie on Health also.
I am sooooo steamed becuase of this potential DISASTER if you would not of been here sue.
HEALTH is a MUST for NEWBIE'S ok, they need that association as well and it was OUR JOB to get her to post there!!!!
 
Ruth this is not at all directed at you...you are just an example of what can happen when we do not urge newbie's to get themselves known on the health page. that is our job to do for you if you post on pzi first. this was not your fault but ours.
I am sooooo sorry.
 
Maybe. But I have seen hypos on Health where the person is just overwhelmed with all the posts and completely stressed out. When I saw her post this am, I immediately put out some feelers for help, including Cindy, who came. We have the people to help her here now, but not so many that it is overwhelming. Yes, it would have been awful if no one had seen her this am, but somebody did.

I agree that newbies should start in Health. But give us some credit. We did well for Rose starting here - read the link!
 
what link should i read sue?
and 'we' i am referring to are just folks who think posting on pzi first and only is enough...
just so glad you caught this one hon.
and i think the timing is incredibly prophetic as per our latest 'discussion'
at the very least she should have had more places to turn god forbid you were not here.
personal comment removed by Rebecca
you know how i get sue...i'll get a cup of coffee and get off this rant now.
 
I really don't want to take advantage of this incident to further my viewpoints. So I'm just going to say being devils advocate that had we insisted she read the Newbie Checklist she would have known not to shoot below 200. I understand we cannot insist on this though.

Also the newbie checklist does spell out what to do in emergencies and that includes posting in Health.

Also I thought I would note that in Health many of the ProZinc topic get somewhat ignored after the person says they are on ProZinc and the people who want them to switch finally trickle away. Sue [samwise] posted in Health for some time and Sue and I were seemingly the only ones helping her. So I remain very skeptical of the if she were in Health she would have more options theory.

Comment removed as it pertained to another removed comment. _Rebecca
 
newbie's do not read links and stickies when they get here...they just want to talk to people and get info fast... she is NEW
 
No amount of caring posts here or in Health would prevent the fact this person did the TECHNICALLY wrong thing. They will have to READ somewhere not to shoot below 200.



And thank you to the people helping Rose you guys are saints.


Personal comments removed by Rebecca
 
Gator & H (GA) said:
No amount of caring posts here or in Health would prevent the fact this person did the TECHNICALLY wrong thing. They will have to READ somewhere not to shoot below 200.
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To blame the owner is outrageous. I feel quite a bit ill reading this.
 
What is going on here? I have always liked PZI because people were friendly and supportive, great at team work.
Seems to me Rose learned quite a bit from us. It seems she would likely not even be testing if we had not kept at it with her. If you go back and look at earlier posts, PZI people did a lot of good work. With the food, with the testing, with how to give shots, with the spreadsheet, etc. Of course it would have been good if she had been told to have a 200 no shoot number, but I have the impression she had not been coming to us regularly with her numbers and asking advice, so it's not surprising that no shoot number was missed. Unfortunate, but understandable. How about taking the attitude that if we hadn't kept at her to test, her cat might well be dead?
People have different ways of working and no one is perfect. And there is usually not any one right answer, either. It's great that people are committed to being helpful and I think everyone's concern for Rose and her cat should be appreciated.
 
judy and squamee(GA) said:
What is going on here? I have always liked PZI because people were friendly and supportive, great at team work.
Seems to me Rose learned quite a bit from us. It seems she would likely not even be testing if we had not kept at it with her. If you go back and look at earlier posts, PZI people did a lot of good work. With the food, with the testing, with how to give shots, with the spreadsheet, etc. Of course it would have been good if she had been told to have a 200 no shoot number, but I have the impression she had not been coming to us regularly with her numbers and asking advice, so it's not surprising that no shoot number was missed. Unfortunate, but understandable. How about taking the attitude that if we hadn't kept at her to test, her cat might well be dead?
People have different ways of working and no one is perfect. And there is usually not any one right answer, either. It's great that people are committed to being helpful and I think everyone's concern for Rose and her cat should be appreciated.
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I did go back to the earlier posts and yes, everyone did a nice job of telling about home testing and switching foods AND picking a no shot number.

What seems to be missed is that not only did no one explain that you should (and why you should) reduce a dose when switching to wet food it appears that now the owner has been blamed.

Maybe instead of deciding that some of us are not nice enough or that some of us apparently don't belong here we could remember that when we "advise" we need to be sure we cover the bases and also remember that this is not a separate "board" from Health. They are fora of the same "board" and there are many of us here who are actually "allowed" to post whether we are "nice" or not.

Personally, I prefer honest to nice if I have to make the choice. The best would be both qualities but honest and knowledgeable trump "nice".
 
Gosh, this is all so disturbing. Could EVERYONE please seriously lay off the accusations and blame throwing? It is 100% unproductive and off-putting. There is an extent to which it is useful to analyze what went wrong so we can fix that. We're all adults, so can we do that nicely please? The drama level is seeming a little high to me, and I am disappointed to see that cropping up in PZI when we have done a great job IMO in keeping things on a friendly level for some time now.

At one point in time it was always clearcut that this board is relatively low traffic and you should always post, or cross post, on Health if you have an emergency. I don't recall if that was clear from people saying it to newbies in posts, or if there was an announcement or something somewhere, but in my mind that was always clear. Spend as much time as you want here, newbie or experienced, but know that if you don't get answers or if you have a crisis, go to Health.

If that is not clear, I think it needs to be crystal clear somewhere that is easy to see. Not in a sticky, b/c people may or may not read that. Not in an announcement, b/c there are too many of those and no way to quickly distinguish what is critical and what is reference. I'm not sure where, but I am sure there is somewhere that makes sense to put something like that.
 
Edited by Rebecca to remove personal comments


This, as a matter of fact, was not a matter of which insulin. It is a matter of any insulin. Thus, in part, the request by the board owner for newbies to post on Health first.
 
i just want to say that being good friends with some of the people who don't post in here regularly anymore until there is a situation, i know that several don't post because they have been pm'd by others and told they were not welcome here or for that matter, that they, despite many many many more years of experience and wider knowledge bases than those people doing the pm'ing, do not know what they are talking about. and the deprivation of that knowledge and experience from people new to this disease is not good.
 
fwiw, i see no need for most of the stickies on the board at all. people learned more and understood more much quicker back when we all interacted with them and explained what needed explaining in a way that was understandable. we've become reliant on stickies, which people assume other people read, and it causes problems. people don't read stickies. plain & simple. eventually they might, but not right away. heck, i don't think i read a sticky but maybe a couple times a year here or there. and to be honest, i never felt much need to. i was taught alot, and well, by some of the best, and the info is in my head for me to pass along.

and yes Joanna, the dramatic tone in some of the posts today was even annoying to me. i literally was saying outloud here "COME ON! THIS IS NOT THE TIME NOR THE PLACE FOR THIS CRAP! GET THRU THE SITUATION AND DON'T GET SO DAMNED WORKED UP ABOUT IT!" too bad we couldn't speak thru this board. LOL!!
 
That is sad to hear Cindy. Nasty PMs IMO should be reported, and if anyone is able & willing to post advice here then I hope they will. There is no one except Rebecca who has the authority to say someone is not welcome here, and hopefully someone saying that (which is completely out of line to say to anyone IMO), would be ignored as being off-target.

p.s. Cindy, the sticky came about b/c there have been so few of us here, we were finding it difficult to cover all the newbies and make sure the basics were covered. I think it is needed, though I agree with you posted responses are ideal - just haven't always had enough advisors here to make that happen, so that's where to me at least the sticky was in order.
 
After reading the last few bits I'm thinking a cooling off period may be in order? If anyone is tempted to back and forth each other any further on who meant what and who said what, I would encourage you to take a breather instead, since I think we are close to (if not past) the "can someone lock this darn thread?" point.
 
yes Joanna, sad. but one particular member has taken it upon themself to apparently claim ownership to pzi isg and after attacking people via PM's, that person makes a point of jumping them anytime and everytime they show their faces here. the constant fighting with someone that has power issues takes away from actually helping a cat and if not helping a cat, why be here. reporting pm's has never had much consequences in my opinion but as of late it does appear to do some good so i hope it continues.

eta because i saw your p.s. :-) , there shouldn't be a need to cover "basics" in an isg in my opinion, thus no need for huge populations in them and constant monitoring. i can maybe see the technical stuff being stored in one place so that when someone's brain is actually wrapped around the basics pretty well, they can move on to the more specific stuff.
 
Cindy + Mousie said:
yes Joanna, sad. but one particular member has taken it upon themself to apparently claim ownership to pzi isg and after attacking people via PM's, that person makes a point of jumping them anytime and everytime they show their faces here. the constant fighting with someone that has power issues takes away from actually helping a cat and if not helping a cat, why be here. reporting pm's has never had much consequences in my opinion but as of late it does appear to do some good so i hope it continues.

eta because i saw your p.s. :-) , there shouldn't be a need to cover "basics" in an isg in my opinion, thus no need for huge populations in them and constant monitoring. i can maybe see the technical stuff being stored in one place so that when someone's brain is actually wrapped around the basics pretty well, they can move on to the more specific stuff.
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agree with all of the above and thank you, Cindy, for saying it so well.
 
Carolyn and Spot said:
Like I was here when you said you'd been here for 4 years. I laughed, but I did not post.
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I have NEVER said I've been here 4 years. Lori said she had been here 4 years and I was asking her a question based on that.

Personal comments removed by Venita. I guess R missed this one.
 
I think what they meant was that they should have shown you how to post in both locations. Please do not think you did the wrong thing ... boy you've had a tough day, haven't you? Sending you lots of hugs..
 
Rose, there are many links which you can find through Board Index. If you had known to go to Health and put in the red 911 icon, everyone would have jumped on it. Health gets a lot more traffic. You did nothing wrong, Fluffy is fine, and you learned a lot today.

I have not used ProZinc, still finishing up my IDEXX, and just happened to be looking for someone and that is the only reason I was on PZI. Too many forums IMHO and not enough people to constantly cover them all. Too many come on, post their numbers, learn what they can, leave and only come back on to post numbers. Newbies come on Health, get them started, someone comes on and tells them to go to ISG forums and we never see them again unless we go searching in the forums. FWIW, I don't go looking for action and usually I am only on Health, Community and Grief.

Originally, the ISGs were established to ONLY publish numbers and actual questions were posted on Health for everyone to see. Somehow the ISGs morphed into separate discussion forums and I agree that they have become almost detrimental. But don't get excited - I'm not doing anything about that right now except encouraging more people to post on Health. By posting on Health, we'd have more eyes on newbies and also more information about ALL insulin types for people to read about - or not read about as they choose. _Rebecca
 
Just so you know, you didn't do anything wrong here.


Health is here viewforum.php?f=28


The reason that Rebecca, the board owner and webmaster has asked that new people post on Health fo a while first is so that more "experienced eyes" can respond and try to help you with at least the basics.

That request was added to the "sticky" after you first posted here. Please don't worry about it. Like Hope said, you should have been told that here.



edited to correct the horrible type in Hope's name :lol:
 
The Health Forum is located here:
FELINE HEALTH: The Main FDMB Forum
viewforum.php?f=28

Rose, I just want to say that if there is any "blame" a word I did not use, the blame is on us for not making things more clear for you. Our original family 'fight' before the real mess happened in here is all about how to best serve folks like you. We are kind of in the middle of a ongoing discussion on this - and trying to make things better in the future for newbies.

Hope, you are not included. "Action" does not include helping folks in hypo for sures. As I said I am personally very appreciative to the folks who jumps in on that. You are clearly not attempting to add to the mess. I personally feel that ProZinc is very similar to PZI and the PZI knowledge-base is very helpful to ProZinc users.
 
Rose,

I am so sorry you saw this thread. It does not show us at our best.

Some newbies start out on Health and get testing and food info there. You started here and got the same info. That is fine.

What we should have told you at some point is that if you have an emergency and there is no one here to answer your post, to go to Health. There are more people posting there on lots of subjects. You posted here and got lots of help and it turned out fine.
 
Gator & H (GA) said:
The Health Forum is located here:
FELINE HEALTH: The Main FDMB Forum
viewforum.php?f=28

Rose, I just want to say that if there is any "blame" a word I did not use, the blame is on us for not making things more clear for you. Our original family 'fight' before the real mess happened in here is all about how to best serve folks like you. We are kind of in the middle of a ongoing discussion on this - and trying to make things better in the future for newbies.

Hope, you are not included. "Action" does not include helping folks in hypo for sures. As I said I am personally very appreciative to the folks who jumps in on that. We have semi-regular visitors in here that like to stir things up then leave. You are clearly not attempting to add to the mess. I personally feel that ProZinc is very similar to PZI and the PZI knowledge-base is very helpful to ProZinc users.
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Hey um... so you feel that my 2 year/3 cat experience with PZI is NOT good? because that's all you've ever said to me since the day you met me.. when you chose to insult my experience and my intelligence. This is not a private board Justin. We are all welcome here. Which means you can't say this stuff about us. We can post when and where and how often we like. I've paid my dues here, and I think there are plenty of people who will back me up on that... and plenty of hours on the PZI ISG. In fact I'd bet I've got you plenty covered in hours on the PZI ISG.
 
Gator & H (GA) said:
I personally feel that ProZinc is very similar to PZI and the PZI knowledge-base is very helpful to ProZinc users.
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if so, then people with pzi experience should not be chased off because they haven't used pz specifically. if the two are that similar, then everyone who used pzi for numerous years can provide as much or more help than those who barely have used insulin, let alone a new insulin that is so far, used by few.
 
Cindy + Mousie said:
if so, then people with pzi experience should not be chased off because they haven't used pz specifically. if the two are that similar, then everyone who used pzi for numerous years can provide as much or more help than those who barely have used insulin, let alone a new insulin that is so far, used by few.
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As far as I go, I have encouraged you to help out here Cindy. But I have discouraged you from passing judgment about ProZinc based on what your vet thinks or what you think without trying it or actively trying to advise for it. You are welcome to help here - we need your help here. Telling people from "what you have seen, ProZinc is" not good or however you put it or my vet says XYZ bad things about ProZinc doesn't really help much here. Those sorts of judgments from someone who has not gotten their hands dirty with it serve little constructive purpose. AGAIN Cindy, I feel you are VERY welcome here to contribute constructively to people using the various PZI flavors.
 
Gator & H (GA) said:
Cindy + Mousie said:
if so, then people with pzi experience should not be chased off because they haven't used pz specifically. if the two are that similar, then everyone who used pzi for numerous years can provide as much or more help than those who barely have used insulin, let alone a new insulin that is so far, used by few.
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As far as I go, I have encouraged you to help out here Cindy. But I have discouraged you from passing judgment about ProZinc based on what your vet thinks or what you think without trying it or actively trying to advise for it. You are welcome to help here - we need your help here. Telling people from "what you have seen, ProZinc is" not good or however you put it or my vet says XYZ bad things about ProZinc doesn't really help much here. Those sorts of judgments from someone who has not gotten their hands dirty with it serve little constructive purpose. AGAIN Cindy, I feel you are VERY welcome here to contribute constructively to people using the various PZI flavors.
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This is where you are wrong. Cindy is welcome here to say anything. Cindy has VAST experience. VAST. Cindy is a respected board member. She is a respected cat owner. Cindy can say what she wants, where she wants, and you nor anyone else who is not the owner of this board has the right to tell her otherwise. And that my boy, is how it goes. There are a good many of us who put money into this board every month so that all have the right to post their opinions. That includes you and Cindy. So if I have to wade through what you say to see what Cindy says, well.. that's what I pay for.
 
="Gator & H (GA) As far as I go, I have encouraged you to help out here Cindy. But I have discouraged you from passing judgment about ProZinc based on what your vet thinks or what you think without trying it or actively trying to advise for it. You are welcome to help here. Telling people from "what you have seen, ProZinc is" not good or however you put it or my vet says XYZ bad things about ProZinc doesn't really help much here. Those sorts of judgments from someone who has not gotten their hands dirty with it serve little constructive purpose. AGAIN Cindy, I feel you are VERY welcome here to contribute constructively to people using the various PZI flavors.
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I don't speak of myself. I've never been one to spend much time in isg's, any of them, ever. it's just not my cup of tea and i don't have that kind of time in my life anymore. i've only ever helped in an isg here and there is all. personally, i don't think people should need my help much if they're in an isg. they should be pretty darn knowledgeable already if they're in an isg.

instead i speak of all the people who taught me so well and that have been run off who are or were willing to help in isg's daily.

as far as my view of pz, it is what it is. what it is NOT is pertinent today. but to be honest, what one deems constructive can be interpreted many ways and making sure that someone knows that there is not much knowledge base about their insulin yet or that it takes a while for it to work or it takes more to do the job or whatever, is contributing constructively if you ask me. it is no different than telling someone that N or vetsulin is hard on the cat or that lantus can be frustrating because it requires a lot of time or patience. and i do that with all the insulins so i'm not going to treat pz any differently.

as far as getting down and dirty with it, i don't have to use it to know about it. i didn't use N that long, never used vetsulin, and went into using lantus pretty flawlessly. taking the time to read, study, and learn is how i know as much as i know about all this stuff. and i'm pretty well respected for it i will say so myself. you used 2 insulins in what, a little over a year's time? how does that make you more knowledgeable about any of this than anybody else? especially if the two are so similar?
 
Enough fur has flown.......

so can all this just stop before it really gets out of hand? Rose got the help she needed and hopefully will continue to get help with dosing advice.

Personalities are kicking in and FDMB is about cats and helping them cat_pet_icon Agree to disagree and let it go.
 
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