Scared newbie needing help

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KittyMom777

KittyMom777

Member Since 2014
Silver's last check of the night is 104 at +4. Can someone look at his curve and tell me if its safe to go to bed. Am scared. He doesn't seem to have a pattern.

Mel are you about?
 
Hang in there Juliet. I am sure someone with more knowledge will reply soon. I would test again soon and keep testing for a few hours and I would also feed some food. But I don't have much experience at this so I don't know if that is good advice or not. You have had some readings that have been similar in the past.
 
I probably wouldn't go to bed yet, Juliet. When did you last feed Silver?

There's no danger at this range, but if you haven't fed him more, I'd give him some low carb now - maybe 1oz or so.
 
Ok I'll try a bit of food. He got fed four hours ago with his insulin
Voula - I can't keep testing for next few hrs. It's very late here and I have to get up for work in 6 hrs.
 
I would at least wait till +5, that was a pretty good drop from pmps to +2 which indicates an active cycle. Next from +2 to +4 average 50pt drop an hour. It was my cat I would wait and test at +5 and reevaluate.
 
Hi Juliet,

Just looking at Silver's spreadsheet. He seems to have had low numbers in the latter part of the last three cycles. The lowest value on the previous cycle (this morning) was at +10. If Silver were my cat, I'd be extra cautious.
 
Here's what I'm looking at:

Silver dropped 108 points between pmps and +2.
Then dropped another 108 points between +2 and +4.

Cats don't drop at a steady per hour rate throughout the cycle, but you can look at what's just happened and it can give you a clue about what *might* happen. If you feed him he'll slow down.

Your post was at :20 after the hour. I'll recheck on you again in about 10 minutes from now. Can you get another test and check back in then?

I don't think it's safe to leave him yet. You need to wait until he's stopped dropping.
 
Darin & Charlie said:
I would at least wait till +5, that was a pretty good drop from pmps to +2 which indicates an active cycle. Next from +2 to +4 average 50pt drop an hour. It was my cat I would wait and test at +5 and reevaluate.
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Will test in about 30 mins. That's +5
 
hi Juliet
it's good that you set your alarm to test again at least 1 time at say +6 that would be advisable to make sure he's not dropping too low. also when that happened to me a few days ago, i shot a bit of a reduced dose and then left out a bunch of wet food so he could eat if his bg was getting low. did you shoot the full dose?
 
oops. just saw you got lots of experienced answers. great. good luck. i will be here too if u need support.
 
I shot the full dose. Vet wanted me to go to 2u and not mess about with it. He was at over 500 this morning. It's crazy.
 
I would and have had to stay up testing going to work on 3hrs of sleep, I figure being tired at work and needing to drink a little bit more coffee is low cost to make sure my cat was safe.
 
I'm sure someone has said it already, lantus is not dosed on the preshot number, the high preshot numbers you are seeing are bounces from going into blue numbers the night before.
 
Darin & Charlie said:
I'm sure someone has said it already, lantus is not dosed on the preshot number, the high preshot numbers you are seeing are bounces from going into blue numbers the night before.
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Yes I know. The vet said to do 2 and 2 when she called me on Friday. Dunno if that was a good plan. What level should a cat be at? A non diabetic one? I tested my other cat and she was at 4.
 
ok. so he's going up a bit on his own. can you hang on a bit longer and see if he is still rising?
 
i believe you need two rising numbers not influenced by food but those last 2 numbers are basically the same. i'd like to see more of a rise in numbers
 
tibbs5 said:
ok. so he's going up a bit on his own. can you hang on a bit longer and see if he is still rising?
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I can do that.

I know the goal is to bring him down and into greens but I don't know how to handle the low numbers. I have yo work tomorrow leaving at 7am gone 12 hrs. What if he drops when I'm out? I can't leave food out both cats eould eat it in five seconds flat.
 
Juliet, I'm going to bow out - you've got lots of help now and I need to run do something.

Normal numbers for a cat not on insulin is 30+ to 120ish. Most of them seem to be in the 30's-80's range most of the time. Your 4 would be 4x18=72 in US numbers, so right in the ballpark.

For a cat on insulin, we keep them over 50 in order to have a safety margin.

If you can get timed feeders, it's going to be really helpful for you. For example, tonight, if you had to go to bed, you could put food to open in another 1/2 hour and then a half hour after that. It's just a great tool! I'm getting ads on my computer regularly that the prices on Amazon have come down to less than $40 each for those PetSafe 5 Compartment Feeders.

Looks like Silver might be hitting bottom before long. Have a great evening - I hope you can sleep before too long. :-D

Nadine - just saw your last post. That 2 rising numbers non-food influenced is for after you've used carbs and come up from below 50. Silver isn't really in that situation. He's flattened out on his own without any food for several hours. That likely indicates the Lantus is at its peak now and he's not likely to go too much lower. Still, if you want to go to bed, Juliet, I'd feed him and your other kitty each a little bit of regular low carb, for insurance.
 
what time do you do his shot in the morning? it looks like he is having really high bounces from those lows that he is getting. if you won't be around to monitor tomorrow, you will have to consider either a reduced dose in the morning or skipping the shot (if his pre shot number is low). being that he is doing these big drops, it is possible that going to 2 units might have been a bit too fast just considering your time constraints for monitoring him. remember the mantra around here. better to be too high for a day than too low for a moment.....especially if u won't b around to check him
 
I know you want to be able to trust your vet, but they are really not up to date on the feline diabetes, I would put my trust with all my cats in the hands of the veteran members here, they live, eat, and sleep feline diabetes.
 
I can' t stay on any longer but you've got experieced eyes watching over you and SIlver now, Juliet. Great that you tested and caught the fast drop tonight. I wish you both a safe night.
 
julie is more experienced so that's great that she thinks he is flattening out. and yes timed feeders is a great idea for you
 
tibbs5 said:
julie is more experienced so that's great that she thinks he is flattening out. and yes timed feeders is a great idea for you
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I can't use timed feeders as my other cat is on a strict diet and she would eat his food :-(
 
Darin & Charlie said:
I know you want to be able to trust your vet, but they are really not up to date on the feline diabetes, I would put my trust with all my cats in the hands of the veteran members here, they live, eat, and sleep feline diabetes.
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My vet seems to be. She has four diabetic cats she is treating. I find it hard to snub the vet when she's thd one physically here examining my cat. I trust this forum and feel very torn.
 
I would seriously go back to the suggestion the Mel gave you the other day about reducing the dose, its a lot easier to learn the lantus learning curve by starting low and going slow by slowly increasing the dose vs starting at too high of a dose and to have to go through what is happening now.

Leave silver in closed bedroom with the autofeeder, water and liter box. That is what I have to do when I work different shifts and can't monitor Charlie.
 
Nadine, I go to work at 7am. Silver gets tested fed and insulin at 6:30 am as my train gets me home in time for 6:30pm dose. I'm following the Start Low Go Slow protocol - it says not to shoot if below 8.3 but the way he drops I'm going to be scared to shoot tomorrow. Even shooting less than usual dose - won't that mess up his system that's getting used to this dose?
 
Darin & Charlie said:
Leave silver in closed bedroom with the autofeeder, water and liter box. That is what I have to do when I work different shifts and can't monitor Charlie.
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I would love to but id come back to a wrecked house if I separsted them or shut one in a room. I'm renting so would get kicked out. They'd also mew the place down.

I promised my vet I would do the new dose til we spoke again on Wednesday. He's not been in green yet do I think he is ok. Will test again in 30 mins.
 
juliet
yes it would drain his shed somewhat but you can always get back from being too high but if he goes too low when you aren't there, that can be very serious. i myself would err on the side of caution and if he were mine i would also start lower and hold longer because of these steep drops. it would be ok to go the higher dose IF you were around to monitor him. i would go slower for this reason.
 
i know you want to do what the vet suggested but........ you won't be around to monitor him tomorrow. you need to be very careful juliet. also the results of the curve you did on nov 15 were from doses of 1.5. the dose that you shoot today does not really take effect for a day or two because lantus is a depot insulin. given your schedule i would go back to dosing either 1 or 1.5 twice per day and hold that until he stops bouncing into those high numbers. Mel's advice is spot on in this regard and then Silver will be safe when you are at work
 
I fully agree with tibs, safty has to come first for silver vs keeping a promise to your vet. Its always better to be safe then sorry.
 
Just checked in quickly before putting my head down.

Given that you're torn between the information you're getting here and the instructions you're getting from your vet, could you maybe speak to your vet tomorrow about the dose? If two units is too high for you to safely administer without a lot of monitoring (and therefore not enough sleep), I think it would be a good idea. With your long working day and long commute you need to make sure you're OK in order to help Silver to get better. Getting Silver onto an effective dose that keeps him in safe numbers - even though right now they're not as low as you want them to be - would give you more peace of mind while you're at work and also help you to get enough rest at night.
 
Ok...so at least I can tell the vet that I tried the 2 units. So I wonder what my preshot decision number should be then? How do I decide what to shoot tomorrow?
 
Critter Mom said:
Just checked in quickly before putting my head down.

Given that you're torn between the information you're getting here and the instructions you're getting from your vet, could you maybe speak to your vet tomorrow about the dose? If two units is too high for you to safely administer without a lot of monitoring (and therefore not enough sleep), I think it would be a good idea. With your long working day and long commute you need to make sure you're OK in order to help Silver to get better. Getting Silver onto an effective dose that keeps him in safe numbers - even though right now they're not as low as you want them to be - would give you more peace of mind while you're at work and also help you to get enough rest at night.
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My vet is off til Wednesday. Right now I guess he's still in safe numbers - not gone into green - it's the fast drops that concern me. About to test again but he's sleeping beside me purring happily. Hate to disturb the little guy.
 
Just wanted to pop in since Ive been following this thread tonight. I totally agree with Nadine and Darin! Start low, go slow is the best option in this scenario with Silver. Different story if you can be home to monitor. if I had listened to my"experienced "vet, My cat may not be alive today....please keep your kitty safe
 
juliet
if he were mine, given his history and your schedule, i would not shoot more than 1 unit , if even that much. i am concerned about him being alone all day. your schedule really dictates the need for going very slowly with his doses. what is his number now?
 
Ok. He's at 8.2 now (147). Dunno why I panicked. Turning out to be a nice curve. I guess Silver drops quickly the first four hours then balances off.

Thanks all. Going to get some sleep now.

Juliet and a purring Silver
 
Laura&Chichi said:
Just wanted to pop in since Ive been following this thread tonight. I totally agree with Nadine and Darin! Start low, go slow is the best option in this scenario with Silver. Different story if you can be home to monitor. if I had listened to my"experienced "vet, My cat may not be alive today....please keep your kitty safe
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I'm trying to Laura. That's why I'm here on this forum. I'm trying to do the best/ right thing for him.
 
tibbs5 said:
juliet
if he were mine, given his history and your schedule, i would not shoot more than 1 unit , if even that much. i am concerned about him being alone all day. your schedule really dictates the need for going very slowly with his doses. what is his number now?
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When he was at 1u hd was regularly in the reds. It's not enough for him. It's bsd being consistently too high as well. Today I panicked - but I don't think the dose was too high - the start low go slow protocol on here says "if the lowest point of the curve is above 5 keep the dose the same.
 
Critter Mom said:
KittyMom777 said:
My vet is off til Wednesday.
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Isn't there any cover for when your vet isn't available? What do you do if you have an emergency?
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Oh there's other vets at the practice but not the one whose been treating Silver. I know everyone here doesn't trust vet advice but this one has been keen to listen to me; has been on the forum and is open to suggestions made here. I'm not her only client with a diabetic cat. She called me for over an hour on her day off to discuss Silver. She's encouraging me yo home test.
 
yes but when you had him at 1 unit and 1.5 it was only for 2 days. that is not even enough time to see the effects of the shed that is being built up. that's great that you like your vet. good to have that support
hope you get some good rest.
 
Ok. He was fine last night. Not sure how long the insulin lasts for? I looked at his numbers over the whole weekend and he drops into blues mid cycle. PMPS is usually ok but AMPS consistently high. I thought it was supposed to last 12 hrs? My vet will probably tell me to increase again when she sees this but I won't this time.
 
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