satina

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MORNING SHE WAS 295 AFTER CANINSULIN NIGHT BEFORE 2 UNITS
I GAVE LANTUS 1 UNIT
+2 395
+7 406
+9 399 plus 50 ml fluids
+11 358

18.04.2016
MORNING
403
+6 470 plus 50 ml fluids
+10 461

this is the THIRD DAY
GAVE 1 UNIT LANTUS AT 8
AT 13 SHE HAS 501!!!
what can i do?
i made her some fluids,
thank you
 
Morning. You are do I g great, you will get the hang of it.

Can you fix your ss a little? Example if you give shots at 7am and 7 pm

The "B" column is the test you get in the morning (AMPS) . 7am

Column C "U" is the amount of insulin you give for the morning g dose.

Column "D" or +1 stands for 1 hour after shot (8am) +2 is two hours after shot (9am) etc across the row until;

PMPS which is evening preshot. 7 pm for this example. Then fill the columns across like you did for the morning.

Each row is 24 hours split in 12 hr cycles.


Does this make sense for you. Look at some others and you will see. I have extra info on mine which makes it look busy.
 
You can look at Rosa's spreadsheet if that will help - I think I put most of the 'extra' stuff in the comments column on hers. Usually with Lantus, you hold the starting dose for 5 days to allow the depot to build and you do often see higher numbers during that time, but as Satina was on 2 units of Caninsulin and no adjustment was made to her starting dose for Lantus based on her Caninsulin dose, you might well be OK to increase to 1.25 units at this point.
 
this morning she was 412.
preshot.
i have added new values to spreadsheet hope it has update.
thank you
 
i have updated ss.
could you please have a check and suggest?
tomorrow would be the fourth day
thank you all
 
thanks again, new measure. after 6 hours 464
then, i use to give her at lunch a bit of food, a small snack.
no carb
do you too?
is it right?
 
An inverse curve like your are getting either mean you are giving too much insulin or not enough insulin.
Since you are only on 1 unit I doubt you are giving too much insulin. If you do not give enough the inverse curve is because the insulin does not counteract the BG spike due to food.
My MurrFee had a similar curve but worse since at abut 5-7 hours his BG would be HI (>600)
 
ok, after 8 hours she is 429.
i think tomorrow morning i'll increase 1,25 only in the morning what do you think?
thank you
 
Larry and Kitties said:
An inverse curve like your are getting either mean you are giving too much insulin or not enough insulin.
Since you are only on 1 unit I doubt you are giving too much insulin. If you do not give enough the inverse curve is because the insulin does not counteract the BG spike due to food.
My MurrFee had a similar curve but worse since at abut 5-7 hours his BG would be HI (>600)
Click to expand...
i am giving her not only 1 unit, but 2, 1 every 12 hours.
but before she was 2 +2 with can insulin.
I AM THINKING TO INCREASE TOMORROW MORNING 1.5 ONLY IN THE MORNING.
what do you think?
thank you
 
What insulin are you using? It would be useful to add that to your signature like you added your SS link.
There is no insulin that last 24 hours in cats. I would increase to 1 1/4 units twice a day
 
well guys.
i have updated the ss.
i have to increase.
slow.
so, i'll try to increase half of half in the morning and at night.
don't know really how to find half of half!!!!
anyhow...
do you agree?
increase of 0.25+o.25 seems too much
 
sorry, i haven't understood something.
the start slow go slow says to increase of 0.25 unit.
what does it mean?
o.25 is the second small line in the syringes?
half of one unit?
and it means to add 0.25 every 12 hours?
while the tight regulation with my values would suggest to add 0.5
it means what one unit more every 12 hours?
thank you
 
I think some of the terminology we use is being lost in translation here. When we talk about a particular dose, that is the dose that is given every cycle (every 12 hours) not the total dose for 24 hours. This is because even the long-acting insulins only usually last around 12 hours in cats because they metabolize insulin quickly. So what we're really talking about is the active dose at any given moment.

When you say you are giving 2 units per day because it's 1 unit in the morning and 1 unit at night, that is still only a dose of 1 unit. The reason for giving the insulin twice a day is because it's only effective for 12 hours. So the effective dose in the cat's system at any given time is 1 unit not 2.

When we suggest you increase by 0.25 of a unit, that would be at every dose. So you would give 1.25 units in the morning and 1.25 units at night. I don't know what syringes you have or what the markings look like, but I have never heard of an insulin syringe with markings smaller than 0.5 of a unit. So to get 1.25, you would be aiming for halfway between the 1 unit line and the 1.5 unit line IF your syringes have half unit markings.

We increase by 0.25 of a unit at a time because this is the best way to find the ideal dose for any individual cat. You would only increase by 0.5 of a unit at a time if your cat was already on a high dose of insulin. 0.25 of a unit increase on a 1 unit dose is an increase of 25% which is quite enough at any one time!
 
manxcat419 said:
I think some of the terminology we use is being lost in translation here. When we talk about a particular dose, that is the dose that is given every cycle (every 12 hours) not the total dose for 24 hours. This is because even the long-acting insulins only usually last around 12 hours in cats because they metabolize insulin quickly. So what we're really talking about is the active dose at any given moment.

When you say you are giving 2 units per day because it's 1 unit in the morning and 1 unit at night, that is still only a dose of 1 unit. The reason for giving the insulin twice a day is because it's only effective for 12 hours. So the effective dose in the cat's system at any given time is 1 unit not 2.

When we suggest you increase by 0.25 of a unit, that would be at every dose. So you would give 1.25 units in the morning and 1.25 units at night. I don't know what syringes you have or what the markings look like, but I have never heard of an insulin syringe with markings smaller than 0.5 of a unit. So to get 1.25, you would be aiming for halfway between the 1 unit line and the 1.5 unit line IF your syringes have half unit markings.

We increase by 0.25 of a unit at a time because this is the best way to find the ideal dose for any individual cat. You would only increase by 0.5 of a unit at a time if your cat was already on a high dose of insulin. 0.25 of a unit increase on a 1 unit dose is an increase of 25% which is quite enough at any one time!
Click to expand...
Yes, so clear from you. Thank you, the problem is that i have the marker for 1.50 but it is quite impossible to find 1.25!!! And i have 0.3 syringes !
 
piri said:
the problem is that i have the marker for 1.50 but it is quite impossible to find 1.25!!! And i have 0.3 syringes !
Click to expand...
That is a problem we all have. There are, to my knowledge, no syringes that have markings for anything less than a half unit. So we do the best we can and aim for halfway between 1 unit and 1.5 units. The thing to remember is that the most important thing is that the doses you give are as close to the same as you can make them. I might measure 1.25 units a little differently than the way someone else measures it. But as long as you measure the same way all the time, you will still be giving Satina the same dose at every shot - that is what really matters. :)
 
23 april
well, i have updated the ss
increased this morning the dose.
not many changes,
she still drinks a lot,
very weak in the front legs,
glicemie up to 400.
let's hope.
ciao
 
It will take several cycles before you get a full picture of how the dose increase is working; it takes time for the depot to reach its new level.


Mogs
.
 
25.04.2016
hallo, have updated ss.
she is bad...
she has more difficulties to walk, please, can't see her like this.
what better to do?
thanks
 
As tonight will be her 6th shot at the 1.25 unit dose, I think you could increase to 1.5 units (for both morning and evening shots) from tomorrow morning as you're not getting the response to the dose that you're looking for just yet.

The difficulty in walking is most likely diabetic neuropathy. That does take time to get better. The best treatment for it is a form of vitamin B12. For neuropathy, the B12 has to be in the form of methylcobalamin and you will probably need to give it as an extra supplement in addition to the B-complex you are already giving her.
 
piri said:
she is bad...
she has more difficulties to walk, please, can't see her like this.
what better to do?
thanks
Click to expand...

Hang in there. I know how hard it is to see your little one poorly. My heart was like a lead weight in the period after Saoirse's diagnosis; she looked so ill. After a few months of insulin treatment the transformation in her was nothing short of amazing. Sending prayers and positive thoughts for Satina to make a wonderful recovery.

:bighug:


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hang in there. I know how hard it is to see your little one poorly. My heart was like a lead weight in the period after Saoirse's diagnosis; she looked so ill. After a few months of insulin treatment the transformation in her was nothing short of amazing. Sending prayers and positive thoughts for Satina to make a wonderful recovery.

:bighug:


Mogs
.
Click to expand...
really thank you.
so sad. loose hope.
this morning 1.5
 
mucacopatarica said:
No no no dont lose hope! she is still on small dose. We were at 4. My cat was in high numbers for more than 2 months. You cant quit now! We will be with you. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...
Thank you, unfortunately Satina too is under high numbers since months.
And I am living all this alone.
To me she is really special, she is really love of my life...
she has helped me a lot in my life,
so it is really hard.
thank you for your support, it is sweet.
 
But she is on a small dose and she is still young. Did you checked for acromegaly? What about ketones? When was she diagnosed? My Tačka was at the end of january 2016.
 
saty is 13 years old.
she was diagnosed in december.
this morning first day of 1.5
after 6 hours....
432!
my god, she is really down, i feel so down too:(
thank you for sharing with me this
 
You see you still have time. She was diagnosed only 1 month earlier than Tač and you changed insulin in meantime. Go slowly up with the dose and listen to ladies on the forum and you will win...Tačka was down too and sometimes she still is but you should not give up because of that...not yet!
I see you are my neighbor :D Are you living near Slovenia?
 
Dear Piri!
I know how hard it is for you to watch your beloved Satina being ill but please try to be optimistic. She will get better, the first few months on insulin are terrible because her body is trying very hard to adapt to a new situation.
She will have her numbers up and down and you can't be sure what's happening but give it time and she will start reacting to insulin in a more predictable manner.
If you look at Rocky's SS you will see that he was giving me red and pink numbers for a long time and now he has been in blue/green!
So Piri - don't despair, give her and yourself more time and it will start improving.
I feel your frustration.
I'm thinking of you and Saty, praying for both of you.
Take care, you have support here and you are not on your own.
Marlena
 
Piri, I think you need to remember that you were giving 3 units of Caninsulin before you changed Satina to Lantus. When you changed to Lantus, you re-set the dosing back to 1 unit. But it is likely that you will need to increase gradually to fairly close to the same dose she was getting of Caninsulin before you see a good response. The reason for increasing slowly is so that Satina doesn't end up overdosed while you try to find the best dose of Lantus for her but that means it takes time to reach a dose she responds well to.
 
manxcat419 said:
Piri, I think you need to remember that you were giving 3 units of Caninsulin before you changed Satina to Lantus. When you changed to Lantus, you re-set the dosing back to 1 unit. But it is likely that you will need to increase gradually to fairly close to the same dose she was getting of Caninsulin before you see a good response. The reason for increasing slowly is so that Satina doesn't end up overdosed while you try to find the best dose of Lantus for her but that means it takes time to reach a dose she responds well to.
Click to expand...
hope so.
but she seems not to respond...at all.
always over 400.
i keep lantus in the fridge,
don't shake it,
no carb,
this night fluids again, 60 ml,
thank you,
from both
 
she is not responding...yet! you are on a really small dose dont you forget. And when you were on Caninsulin she was responding. I see blue numbers. I know it is hard (see my theme i was really sad 2 hours ago) but we must not give up! I am in that all alone too (I have BF but he works a lot and all the measurements and testings are on me). You have all support here if you need it. :bighug:
 
piri said:
but she seems not to respond...at all.
Click to expand...
She will - once you reach the right dose. Patience is very important when dealing with feline diabetes. Take a look at Rosa's SS in my signature - you can see that it took her almost 2 weeks and 4 dose increases to respond to the insulin properly. But when she did - look how quickly her numbers started to look a whole lot better. I, too, had to do all the testing and shots. My husband was willing to help, but Rosa decided I was the only person who was allowed to test her BG. You can do this, but you have to give it time. :bighug:
 
manxcat419 said:
She will - once you reach the right dose. Patience is very important when dealing with feline diabetes. Take a look at Rosa's SS in my signature - you can see that it took her almost 2 weeks and 4 dose increases to respond to the insulin properly. But when she did - look how quickly her numbers started to look a whole lot better. I, too, had to do all the testing and shots. My husband was willing to help, but Rosa decided I was the only person who was allowed to test her BG. You can do this, but you have to give it time. :bighug:
Click to expand...
hope you are right.
really
 
mucacopatarica said:
she is not responding...yet! you are on a really small dose dont you forget. And when you were on Caninsulin she was responding. I see blue numbers. I know it is hard (see my theme i was really sad 2 hours ago) but we must not give up! I am in that all alone too (I have BF but he works a lot and all the measurements and testings are on me). You have all support here if you need it. :bighug:
Click to expand...
thank you
 
Hi Piri,

I can really relate to the special bond you have with Sati. My Saoirse helped me through some very, very rough times and she's my world.

A couple of things:

1. Diabetes regulation does take time - Sati didn't become diabetic overnight and it will take a little time to find the right dose for her and for her body to then relearn how to run in normal, healthy numbers again. It's hard for us because we want our little ones to be better yesterday.

2. Sometimes with Lantus when the dose is increased it can temporarily result in high numbers - FDMB calls this phenomenon 'New Dose Wonkiness'.

Hang in there. Saoirse looked awful for a while during the early part of her treatment: she was very lethargic and out of sorts; she had lost weight; and then all her fur started falling out. She looked a mess and I was very sad and scared. :( But we persevered, we found a good dose, and not very long after that Saoirse started getting a little better every day; slowly at first, but then more and more positive changes started happening. I was amazed at how much the insulin helped her! Saoirse was 14 when she was diagnosed and she just turned 16 at the beginning of this month. Keeping fingers and paws crossed for Sati's insulin to help her the way it helped my Saoirse.

:bighug:


Mogs
.
 
Piri,
when you give your cat insulin it is a hormone that comes from outside( by you giving injection) and, at first I think confuses the cat's system. Your cat has been in high glucose numbers for sometime and all of a sudden there is a lot of insulin available and your cat's body need to get used to it.
That why we need to start slowly and, at first it's not going to work like that:
you give insulin - blood glucose drops.
Your cat's system will fight that lower glucose number which is different to what's the cat's system is used to (remember - high glucose).
It is a natural process and it is expected in the first few weeks or months of treatment.
After so many weeks, your cats body will get the message that insulin is dropping blood glucose slowly and it will react to this process in a more predictable manner.
It is important that you follow the advice from L/L members and absolutely vital that you test at expected nadir as per information from your group. Nadir is the lowest number of blood glucose after injecting insulin and it is a very important number.
This is a simple explanation, that whole process is more complicated then that but I thought that I put things simply so you can accept that what's happening to Satina at the moment is to be expected and we all went through this with our kitties!
So be optimistic and don't despair, it will start getting better.
Lots of love,
Marlena
 
Hi Piri,

Just dropping in to send some scritches to Sati and some :bighug::bighug::bighug: to you.

piri said:
unfortunately I am living this all alone.
Click to expand...

Not any more; you're part of the FDMB family now! We're all here for you both, and we'll do everything we can to help you both and to give you as much reassurance as possible. :)



Mogs
.
 
sweet ladies,
satina today has been in pink.
updated ss

she is very weak in front legs, her problem is strange, she has kind of
fasciculations.
giving her meat, wondering if better to take only taurine supplement or felini complete.
waiting for dear suki to send me b vitamin,
what would you suggest?
i hug you
thankyou
 
Pink is better than red and black! you are on the right way. I dont know if your Satina have a neuropathy or something like that. Do you know if weakness is related to diabetes or not? Tačka have arthritis (she is 19!) which was a lot worse when she was in high numbers. I think i understand what you want to say with fasciculations. Something similar happens to Tačka sometimes but it is much better since we are in better numbers What your vet thinks about her legs?
 
she said neuropathy...
but it is strange, it is in anterior legs,
how did you understood it is arthritis?
in front legs too?
does she has kind of tremors?
she has when for example feels cold things, water food, my hands...
ciao
 
she has this for quite some time. Her front legs are little bit deformed. They are slightly in the x shape. Sometimes she has somethnig like tremors (i cant find word in english for that) but she is not sensitive on cold,water or something like that. She dont want to jump on higher things so we made her stairs and other things that help her if she want to go on higher things. For example: if she want to go in our bed she have footstool which ease jump for her. Acctually she dont need to jump she just step on the stool and than on the bed.
 
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