Sasha has moved on, and found peace

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EAWall61

Member Since 2013
Does anyone know of a vet who would be willing to wait one week for payment? We don't know if Sasha can wait a week....her hind legs have completely given out. Sasha is one of six cats (all rescued)...We just spent $14.99 on Natural Balance to feed everyone and to their credit,our old vet's office allowed us to purchase five cans of w/d for Sasha (without an appointment). The doctor who used to help us out left the practcice so the office will not see Sasha without up front payment. We have: contacted every vet we can find to ask for some flexibility such as an opportunity to sign a promisory note....even begged them to give us $50.00 worth of consultation...offered electronic transfer of funds (my husbands social security comes in on Wednesday, and I get paid on Thursday). No luck.

We have called the Humane Society and they took our information...advised us they would call us...and told us that we would have to pay at least $50.00 up front plus cost of treatment (but they can't tell us how much that would be).
We have applied for Care Credit...and we were denied (I am engaged in an identity theft matter which will take a long time to resolve....the perp has lots of credit in my name...I was tempted to ask him for the money...just kidding.).

I know there is a truck that will be in our neighborhood (East Harlem) on Friday....but I am not sure if Sasha will be okay til Friday. The thing is, when we took each of our kitties in....we were their last resort........and we have done our best to do the right thing by them. We would have gladly given Sasha...a beautiful Maine Coon to someone who could afford to care for her....but no one wants a "sick" cat. In fact, all of our kitties have various problems...they found us...we took them in...because otheres didn't want them. My family won't help...because they think we are nuts. So we are running out of ideas. If anyone has any ideas....knows of any resources that we have not considered.....we would be so grateful. Thanks for reading. Peace and Namaste
 
Re: Resources in New York City

Hi everyone, thank you SO, so much for your responses. About a year ago Sasha was drinking all the time, never wanted to stop eating, peeing all the time, and had very bad diarrhea. Our vet at the time said she probably had diabetes and if she responded well to a switch to prescription food that would reveal that that was what was wrong. She immediately got better, finally seemed content, and returned to peeing and defecating normally. After the diet change,she has been consistently healthy for over a year. Over the summer, I was waiting to start a new job and we were really broke. We ended up having to give Sasha the food we give our other cats, which is Nature's Balance chicken and pea. For this whole time everything seemed well and normal with her, until about two weeks ago, I noticed a very slight limp in her back leg, but thought maybe it was just something minor from playing. Then three days ago she was wobbling, falling over, and sort of dragging her body across the floor to get anywhere. Now she can only pull herself up into a sitting position with great effort, (sitting up as in sitting on all fours, she can't get to sitting on just her back feet, without a lot of effort and I haven't seen her do that in over a day) and she mostly just lays on her side. She hasn't defecated in at least 3 days, but she is urinating. Her demeanor had actually been pretty normal in spite of these things, as of yesterday she was purring and affectionate, and alert. The emergency vet on the phone really seemed to think, based on everything described, that it was Sasha having problems caused by diabetes, but since she hasn't been looked at, I'm terrified that she is going to die if she doesn't get seen by a vet immediatly. I have no idea what I'm doing, I don't know what to do, I just want to help her. The ER vet told me to get her some Karo syrup or some kind of sugar the day before yesterday, and I had some honey and gave it to her which she LOVED and it did seem to temporarily perk her up (sitting up, purring, looking around). Today, she doesn't want any and seems agitated this morning, crying out and not comfortable.I'm desperately trying to get her seen by a vet since I'm so afraid that she is in crisis, what if this isn't from diabetes, or if she has a blood clot or something else...:( She seems agitated this morning, crying out and not as comfortable, but she did eat and drink last night. She has been drinking for these 10 minute periods at a time, which is what she used to do last year before the food switch. I submitted an application with the Humane society here three days ago, who wouldn't tell me if they would accept payment next week, but they put in an application just in case they would allow it this time. They haven't called me back yet, I'm calling them again this morning. There is one vet who is considering allowing us to pay him when my husband's Social Security check comes in on the 3rd. He is going to let us know at 9 this morning if he is willing to. I am praying so hard that he is. I looked into the incredible resources that SusanandOwen suggested, thank you so much. It seems that catsincrisis isn't taking applications for funding anymore:( Redrover won't pay for any diagnostic work at the vet. I'm checking out IMOM now. All of these charities are incredible. I'm not sure IMOM will be able to help me since they need a letter from a vet that says the cat will die without life saving treatment, and I just need Sahsa to get seen for starters:( I'm going to see if there is anything they can do. Any other help, or guidance would be so, so appreciated and incredible. I have 60 dollars in my bank account right now:( If this had just happened next week I would be able to take her in right now. If anyone miraculously knows of any vet in the NYC area that would accept payment on the third with any proof on the planet they would need to prove my word to them, I would be eternally grateful. Thank you all so much for listening and responding, it really means the world to me. Sasha is a beautiful, lovey girl, a great friend... I just want to get her better again. Sorry for such a long post...
 
Re: Sasha needs help/vet care in NYC

Ok first smell her breath - can you smell nail polish remover? if so , she urgently needs a vet as she has Diabetic Ketoacidosis which is extremely serious. She isnt on insulin right?

What food was she on before? The natural balance is 13% carbs which is a bit high for a diabetic. You want something under 10%. Many people here feed the fancy feast classic pates, friskies pates or Wellness grain free.

You can try and test to see if it is diabetes. Go to a pharmacy and buy Bayer keto-diastix or equivalent . They are around $20 or something. They test her pee for 2 things -ketones and glucose. If you see ketones she is having major DKA issues and needs to go to the vet immediately or she will die. If you see glucose, then she is diabetic and we need to work on that and possibly start her on insulin.
How to test her pee: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1quta5WLEjdO0Y_t2dAYSwN84h-LNZWxOdtVsJDKZ16A/pub

Wendy
 
Re: Sasha needs help/vet care in NYC

One other place to try as Sasha is a diabetic....DCIN (Diabetic Cats In Need) has a financial assistant program DCIN They maybe able to not only help you get her seen quickly but if it proves that her problems are from Diabetes they can help you with testing supplies, insulin etc.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: Sasha needs help/vet care in NYC

Check the legs - do they feel cold? Cold suggests lack of circulation, ie a clot blocked blood vessel. If it seems painful to her (crying, inability to stand), I suspect it is more likely a clot. While the cat can recover from a clot, it is painful and there is a very high chance of having another clot within 10 months. My Spitzer had a blood clot to both back legs and rather than have him in chronic pain from the nerve damage and tissue death caused by lack of blood flow, I let him go.

Because it is just one leg, it is less likely to be diabetic neuropathy, though not impossible. This is resolved through managing the diabetes and providing supplementaly methylcobalamin.
 
Re: Sasha needs help/vet care in NYC

Bless your heart..Not much help here but AM sending prayers. Sometimes you just have to let God...
jeanne
 
Re: Sasha needs help/vet care in NYC

I'm sending prayers for some help for Sasha too.
 
Re: Sasha needs help/vet care in NYC

Hi everyone -- Wow, thank you all so much for your prayers. They brought tears to my eyes. All day I carried all of your support, good wishes, and prayer with me. They truly mean the world.

I have some incredibly blessed news! With a beautiful gift from Eva, Kenneth, and Butters, we were able to get Sasha to the vet, a full blood panel done, urinalysis, fluid injection, and some antibiotics to prevent a skin infection from urinating on herself. Eva wanted me to say "Hi!" to everyone and Mel (MommaofMuse) :) I am so grateful to Eva, Kenneth and all of her kitties for their help getting Sasha help. This wouldn't have been possible without them, and we are so deeply touched and grateful for them, and for this message board for helping our Sasha get to the vet when we couldn't do it on our own. We will never forget this truly incredibly kindness:)

The vet did a physical and didn't think she had a blood clot, thankfully. He said he thought she would be in a lot MORE pain than she is in (he had her attempt to walk, and she did cry and fall over), and that in his examination he didn't feel anything that would suggest a blood clot. Thanks for bringing that up Deb & Wink and BJM, he didn't initially specifically check her for a blood clot. When I brought it up (remembering what you guys said) he checked her. So a big relief there. I'm so sorry to hear about Spitzer (what a great name) BJM, and thanks so, so much for your advice.

We're now waiting on Sasha's blood panel results which we should get sometime tomorrow. The vet said he really couldn't be sure what is going on with her until he sees her blood results, but he said she is dehydrated, seems to have lost some muscle, and said her kidneys are on the small side, but didn't want to jump to conclusions on kidney failure because he did think diabetes could definitely be the cause also, as well as just possible muscle weakness. He did bring up possibly putting her on an IV if she doesn't seem better from the fluid shot. He also mentioned that she might need x-rays to see if she has any tumors, or anything else if the blood tests don't reveal anything, but he didn't want to do that until the blood work comes back. While we were on the exam table, I also noticed that she was holding her front paw at an odd angle, and he checked it out and thought she might have a small growth on it, or a possible very old injury, but he didn't think that was a part of what was going on with her right now. He also noted that she was massively constipated and that could definitely be contributing to her discomfort. He told us to give her 1/4-1/2 a teaspoon of Miralax. Sasha did end up pooping a little bit BEFORE the Miralax (she still hasn't since we gave it to her), and she definitely has had some harder moments since getting home from the vet, particularly immediately after the vet, when she seemed lethargic and out of it. The vet suggested we give her honey again and she really perked up and went back to normal after having it. She's also has had some moments crying, dragging herself in and out of her litter box, not being able to defecate, and another spell of lethargy, but then the other 60% of the time she is really alert, warm, and still the same loving and affectionate Sasha we know. We just have to get through this wait for the results. Hopefully she'll defecate and feel better, and then tomorrow we'll see what is going on with her.

I will definitely update you all tomorrow with the results.The fact that we have the ball rolling with a vet is a relief of monumental proportions. Now that we have a vet who has seen her, we are in a better place to qualify for funding for Sasha's treatment depending on the diagnosis (I emailed DCIN at Mel's and other members' suggestions, and they said they might be able to help if Sasha has a diagnosis as diabetic, and a few other charities might be able to help if they get a treatment plan from the vet), as most of the charities require a diagnostic report from a vet which we can now, thankfully, get. We are definitely set up with more options for her treatment now, thanks to Eva, Kenneth, and Butters:) Everyone here has been so kind and helpful, and we really feel all of the hugs and prayers. My extended family has always disapproved of us taking in 6 strays, so to really see and feel the love and care this community has for kitties has been such a beautiful, hopeful experience. All of your guidance has been extremely helpful, as I was panicking, and so overwhelmed before I found this board, and all of your guidance and experience has helped me to stay calm, focused and helpful to Sasha. This board is a really beautiful place, and all of you have been so, so helpful:) I feel incredibly blessed. Thank you all so much:) I will definitely let you all know what the diagnosis is tomorrow. I'm crossing my fingers for good news.

Hugs to everyone,

Elizabeth and Tara

P.S. Another shout out and thanks to Wendy&Tiggy, we checked her breath right away at your suggestion and were really relieved when it smelled normal, thanks so much for your advice
 
Re: Sasha needs help/vet care in NYC

I'm glad it isn't a blood clot.

I don't know if we gave you this link: Feline Constipation

If she is obstructed at all, she may need an enema to clear the blockage. Sometimes partial feces can make it through with a blockage, so maybe ask the vet about that. And if the material is real hard, an enema will soften it up and make it less painful to move. Pushing with the Miralax when it is hard can generate a lot of painful, internal pressure.
 
Re: Sasha needs help/vet care in NYC

Hi everyone, according to my vet, Sasha is in kidney failure. She mentioned hospitalization to flush out her kidneys, but said her prognosis might not be good because her kidney values are bad. She said she thought with electrolytes being "out of whack" that it COULD be some other obscure underlying conditioning, but that she thinks it is kidney failure. I'm completely numb, I have no idea what to do. She mentioned putting her down. The vet said she does not think she has diabetes at all, her blood glucose "is a little low", but she didn't think she has diabetes. I am so confused, would it be normal for a diet overhaul to completely turn around the health of a cat in kidney failure for over a year? I know Sasha has always loved food, but would honey really significantly turn her around immediately after becoming lethargic, just because it's a treat? Could she recover with hospitalization, IV, and kidney flushing? Does anyone have any experience with this? Does anyone know what these "obscure" other conditions could be? I am so numb, I have no idea what to do. Any help or guidance would be such a blessing. Thank you all so much again. She said she might only have a couple of days. I am so sad and scared.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, desperately need advice

Oh dear, I have no advice but sending prayers for Shasa. Other here do have experience with this. Good luck and God bless.
jeanne
 
Re: Update on Sasha, desperately need advice

Get the blood analysis (and urine analysis results and any other test results) and post them here.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, desperately need advice

The doctor is compiling them for me, I'll post as soon as I get them. Thank you all, truly. I'm reading through Tanya's Comprehensive guide now, thanks for that. I'm trying to stay calm and clear headed right now and it is hard:(
 
Re: Update on Sasha, desperately need advice

{{hugs}}

There is a lot you can do, if the cat is cooperative, even at higher stages.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Hi everyone, I have the full results, but they sent it as a PDF. I can't totally understand how to type it up, it's a chart form. I attached it, I hope that is okay. If I need to put it in another form to make it easier, I'll definitely do it, let me know. If there is something I should single out I'll do that too. Thank you all again so much for all of this help and advice, we are so incredibly grateful to you all.
 

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Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

The high BUN, creatinine and phosphorous indicate a kidney problem. The high white blood cell count indicates an infection. Maybe treating the infection will improve kidney function. The blood in the urine and especially the bacteria point to an infection.
The high phosphorous makes a cat feel bad and not want to eat. A low-phosphorous food and/or phosphorous binder is called for at this time.
I would talk to the vet abut the possible infection and changes of kidney function improving with treatment.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Hi, Larry and Kitties, my husband just remembered that before I got on the phone with her, the vet said Sasha has a UTI and a kidney infection, you're right on. The whole time I was on the phone with her she really was pushing me putting her down, really down playing the effectiveness of any treatment at all, saying they could give her antibiotics but there was no guarantee she would get better. I do know she knows I don't have any money until the 3rd, because I did pretty much tell her that, so I'm afraid that is coloring her advice to me, and I understand why it would, but I want to do everything to help Sasha live a happy comfortable life as long as possible, and will do ANYTHING to make that happen, if I can. I don't want to do anything that would make her feel worse, but if the antibiotics would help her feel better and live a happy, comfortable life for as long as possible I would start applying for funding every where NOW, and start planning ahead with my paycheck next week. What do you guys think?
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

1) hydration - giving subcutaneous fluids - will reduce some of those lab values a bit, as the numbers are based on the amount in the volume - increasing the volume lowers that ratio. If your cat will let you do it, giving fluids is something you can do at home. I've done it and found that slightly warming the fluids helps keep the kitty comfortable. Placing the fluid bag under your arm and squeezing slightly like a bagpipe helps the fluids go in a bit faster. Some cats may need a "burrito wrap" of towels to keep them still while giving fluids.

2) the specific gravity is borderline - the more dilute the urine, the less kidney function. Also, the kidney using more water to carry out toxins may be causing dehydration and some excess electrolyte (mineral) losses.

3) white blood cells and blood in the urine may be infection or something called interstitial cystitis, an inflammatory condition. If it is the former, a culture and sensitivity will identify what bacteria and what will treat it. If the latter, some folks find glucosamine seems to help.

4) Lab Tests Online, while for humans, means much the same for animals.

5) Merck Veterinary Manual Online - Renal Dysfunction in Small Animals - you might want a medical dictionary while reading any of this, but this is THE basic reference book vets and vet techs use.

6) stage of disease - classification of Stages of Kidney Disease Did they take her blood pressure? There's a different staging based on blood pressue.

7) epakatin is one type of phosphorus binder to help prevent further phosphorus buildup.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Tanya's site has all kinds of info to help you help Sasha and explains different values. BJM sent you the link. I'm with Larry on this.....she will definitely need fluids given which you can learn to do at home, plus phosphate binders, antibiotic, (do not let the vet give her a CONVENIA shot) bad, won't help her, and has killed some cats. Last upwards of 2 or more weeks so once in you can't get it out. Need to get her creat down, her phosphorus down, few other values that may need supplements but main thing would be fluids and antibiotics. I'm sure BJM will be on with more help.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Thanks again, I don't know if it would apply, but Sasha did get an antibiotic injection for a possible skin infection -- is that something that could help her with her kidney infection and or UTI? I'm going to ask the vet this when she calls me back. Oh my god, I think they might have given her Convenia for her skin infection yesterday...

I'm also going to ask her how she did when they gave Sasha subcutaneous liquids yesterday, since I wasn't in the room. I got really scared because the vet used the term "end stage kidney failure" with me. Is stage 4 on Tanya's chart considered end stage, or is it beyond that? If Sasha is cool with it, I would love to get her subcutaneous liquids especially since it seems like a normal thing that could really help her if she is alright with it. I'm going to see if my vet will allow me to add on to the promissory note to get the fluids. Oh wow everyone, this info is so helpful, thank you all so much.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

End Stage is a process, not an event. And you don't have to make a decision today.

It is going to be up to you and Sasha whether home therapy will provide quality of life. It can be worth a trial of giving fluids, the phosphorus binder, plus an appropriate food to see how that works for both of you. Because she is in a higher stage, keeping the protein moderate and of good quality may need to occur. See Cat Info for information about diet and renal disease.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Thanks BJM, just saw your posts, and thought I responded but I don't see that it did. Is the epakatin something I would need to buy at a drug store, or something I would need to get from a vet?

I would really like to try to give her a good life, she just seems so ALIVE, wanting to cuddle, interested in what's going on. If I can make her comfortable and happy this way, it would be my honor to try for her. Thank you for the words of wisdom, they really ring true. I don't feel like Sasha is ready to pass, at least not right now, and I'm going to follow her lead on this. Depending on what my vet is willing to allow financially, I might apply for some funding through some of the charities mentioned earlier on to try to pay for the subcutaneous fluid, the phosphorous binder, and the low phosphorous food. I don't know if they'll help in this case with no real forever cure to this (I know there is a real need out there for permanent life saving care) but I'll try to get Sasha what she needs as long as she wants it. If anyone knows of any place to get these kind of supplies like the low phosphorous food, or the sub q fluid with the promise of payment on the 3rd, I would be so grateful. I'm down to about 10 dollars now until the 3rd, and am going to check with my vet when she calls back if she has any. Also, I'm going to re-read this thread, I think someone might have mentioned something earlier on, but I could be wrong. I am so overwhelmed by all of your wisdom here, you guys are so amazing.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Epakatin at our shopping partner Amazon

Fluids will require an Rx in most states, because there are varieties and you want to get the correct kind for the condition. Check Tanya's site for good providers - I think they list some.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Stem Cell Research on feline renal disease possibly near you:

"We do have a formal study currently underway at the Animal Medical Center of New York, and we have had several veterinarians use stem cells on CKD cats under our Compassionate Use program, but we do not yet have any data to share."

Vet-Stem, Inc
Whitney St. Germain
12860 Danielson Ct, Suite B
Poway, CA 92064
1-88-VETSTEM1
www.vet-stem.com
www.arthritisindogsblog.com
www.facebook.com/vet-stem
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

low phosphorus food is under 250 phosphorus level - here is a link to what Dr. Lisa Pierson provided regarding food chart composition and phosphorus level -- http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopi ... 28&t=79683

one inexpensive brand is friskies special diet canned food - such as turkey & giblets pate style - you don't have to buy prescription or expensive food in order to get decent low phos foods

look at the chart and see if your current foods are in it and low phos and if not, you can introduce ones that are on the list and affordable to you.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Hi everyone, thanks for the continued advice, it is helping so much. My vet allowed us to add a bag of subcutaneous fluid (one bag, that she said is 10 days worth, is that giving her enough per day?), needles etc, Epakitin, and some low phosphorous food to our promissory note. PHEW. To everyone who has rallied to get Sasha her supplies, so many thanks.

We did, I think, successfully give Sasha her first subcutaneous fluids, with a bit of a learning curve, with so much help from the video that was posted by Hope + (((Baby)))GA , thank you. Our vet told us to give about an inch worth of fluid (measured on the bag) to Sasha, is that enough/ too much? The vet seemed kind of rushed. When I did give Sasha the fluid, she didn't have the big bubble under her skin that the cat in the video had. I also did note that after the vet did it, she didn't either, and the vet did mention that she had a ton of extra skin in that area from weight loss. I just hope I did it right :-| Sasha was amazing with it, she purred, was intrigued by what we were doing, and perked up a lot afterwards. She was actually laying down in a position, comfortably that I haven't seen her in in over a week ( like a kitty Sphinx).

She ate about 1/4 of a can of k/d food (I don't think we'll stick with this since the vet warned that Sasha would probably hate it, and I see from the board that the prescription food is hardly the only show in town, but I was worried I wouldn't be able to get a cheaper low phos food today, so I took it for her) and about 1/4 of a can of fancy feast. That was all at once since I mixed them together to make the k/d more appetizing. I have noticed though, while eating she is sort of moving her ahead a lot, like someone would if they were chewing on something really tough or sticky. Is this something I should be worried about? I didn't have a chance to ask the vet since the office was closed by the time Sasha ate.

I realized after I fed Sasha that I should have sprinkled the Epakitin on it, ahhhh. I think someone might have mentioned it higher up in the thread, I'm going to double check, but I'm not totally sure, but how much Epakitin should Sasha have per day? The bottle says "Epakitin 50gm."

Sasha also drank almost a full cup of water after eating, but when she started drinking, she seemed to be having a little trouble swallowing, but then it seemed easier the more she drank. She still hasn't had a BM, but the vet said to wait for the fluids to help in that department. She also suggested we get Sasha some Peptid to prevent ulcers, which I couldn't get today. Ahh sorrry for the information overload, I'm still going through all of the AWESOME resources you all suggested. Tanya's is so encouraging and helpful. I cannot thank you all enough for this help, oh my god. Sorry for such a long post, I am so new to this, and just want to do everything right by Sasha. Thank you all so much.

P.s. Just saw the food suggestion above this post, I'll try to get the turkey and giblets for Sasha tomorrow, thanks for that recommendation.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

So glad you got the fluids and were able to give her some. The bag should have markers on it.....if vet said it was 10 days worth than that would mean 100 mls a day which is fine and should be a big help. Usually you can get the fluid bag in a 500 ml or 1000 ml.......she probably gave you the 1000 ml. It should have numbers and lines on it starting at the top with 1 and then a smaller little half line then another line with 2 on it. 1 to 2 is 100 mls. 1 to the half line is only 50 mls. You should use a new needle every time you give fluids. Also, always watch the fluid count so you don't give too much.

Also you will want to get the Pepcid A/C.....do not get Pepcid Complete. Cannot use that in a cat.

So glad the vet has given you all this.......it will truly help Sasha.

Did you find out if the shot was a Convenia for her skin problem or a steroid shot? Did you get antibiotics to put her on?
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

I have been following your posts about Sasha, and now that I see she has kidney failure, I wanted to throw my advice in, for what it might be worth.

I recently lost my 17 and a half year old tortie cat, named Ketchie, from end stage kidney failure, plus other health issues. But, I, like you, did all I could last year to give her as much help as possible, to live a decent quality of life. She was like a little baby to me. Born in my bathroom, and she talked all the time.

My recommendations are about the same as everyone else's here, but also you might want to watch the following site that explains kidney failure in terms that were easier to understand for me.
http://www.partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/pet-owners/kidney-disease/how-is-it-diagnosed

Also, you might want to join the Yahoo CRF feline group by joining Yahoo groups (if you don't belong to any at this time) and type in Feline-CRF-Support group, and join up there. I joined that group, plus the Tanya's support group on Yahoo groups also. I got a lot of great advice, and a lot of encouragement with Ketchie from people who emailed me privately.

I learned a lot when I started giving Ketchie fluids here at home. Did your vet give you Lactated Ringer's or Sodium Chloride Solution? Usually they give Lactated Ringers, but I found my vet sold me both kinds, and Ketchie seemed to do better with the Lactated Ringer's.

Also, what size needles did your vet give to you for the fluids? Number 18 is what they were trying to use to give Ketchie fluids at the vet's, and they were just too large for her, as she had lost so much weight. So, I asked for number 20 size needles, and they were smaller (the higher the gauge needle, the easier it is to get into the cat, and doesn't hurt them as much, even though the fluids may take a few minutes longer to give).

My Ketchie, was having a lot of trouble eating last Fall, and so, my vet found that she had a very abscessed tooth in her upper right side of her mouth. The only tooth she had left there. I almost put Ketchie down in December, but my vet said if I would let her pull the tooth and she was already on Baytril as an antibiotic, that it might help her feel better and eat again. On Dec. 7, last year, the vet pulled her tooth, and after that, Ketchie perked up and started eating better again. She was down to about 9 pounds (her normal weight was 13 pounds), but I still had to give her fluids, due to the kidney failure getting worse. I was determined, as it sounds like you are, to give her as much time as possible to be with me, as long as she had 'quality of life' and was not in too much pain.

For pain, you might want to ask your vet if they would give you some Buprenex (it is a narcotic) for Sasha, if she might be having any trouble with her mouth or her teeth. Plus, just being dehydrated, and having kidney failure, can be painful. DO NOT GIVE HER METACAM. (see this site: http://www.metacamkills.com )

As Hope said, please do not let the vet give her a Convenia shot either. My vet kept wanting me to give Ketchie a shot of that, but I would not let her. Ketchie always had bad reactions to some drugs, and that one stays in their system for at least two weeks.

Well, I can tell you lots more, since this all happened so recently to me, but I truly hope you can keep Sasha around for a much longer time. She is only 12 years old, and so young. At least my Ketchie did make it to 17 and a half. I have a friend in Florida, who has a cat going on 17, and she and I talk on the phone a lot, since she is going through the same thing with her female tortie, as I was with Ketchie. But, the vet started her cat on Epogen due to anemia (that is what happens too with kidney failure), and she gives her cat fluids every day. She is really improving this past week! YAY!!!

If you want to PM to me, I would be happy to write more to you about any questions you might have. The others here are all great with all they have been helping you with, though. It is hard to digest so much information, but I do not regret keeping my Ketchie girl for as long as I could. She started to not eat, and I could not even get food into her the last few weeks. She was down to 6.4 pounds, and very weak, and could barely walk. I knew then, that it was time to let her go.

But, listen to your gut instincts, and if Sasha is still perky and feeling better with the fluids, and if you get an antibiotic (I used Baytril with good results), and if you give her the phosphorus binders, and good quality food, and use the Pepcid A/C if you need to (usually a quarter of a 10 mg tablet once or twice a day), then you may have Sasha with you for longer than you know!

God bless, and good wishes for all that you are doing for your sweet girl!
((((HUGS)))),
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

One other thing, if you give the fluids and do not feel a pouch where they are going in, then she is dehydrated enough, that her body is sucking them right up.

That is what happened with my Ketchie. Even when the vet or vet tech would give her fluids, they noticed the same thing.

As long as the fluids are going into her, and not leaking out, then you know she really needs them.

Take care!
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Thanks Jean and Charcoal and Hope, wow so much great info. Before we got back the blood results that revealed Sasha had a UTI and kidney infection, the vet had given her an injection of Convenia for a potential skin infection, which I am now really stressed about, since I didn't know about it's dangers at the time:( The vet did say that that would absolutely treat the UTI and kidney infection, but I just hope the shot itself isn't hurting her.

The bag itself is a 1000 ml bag of lactated ringer's solution, with a bunch of 18x 1A needles (that's what it says on the cap of them). Thanks so much for the reassurance with fluids. Other than the needle squirting out a ton of liquid when we removed it (aghhh, learning curve....), everything seemed to go into Sasha and stay in. I'm so glad her body is getting what it needs. What an incredible relief.

Have either of you had experience with the phosphorous binders? I'm still not totally positive how much of Epakitin to give to Sasha since the vet didn't really talk in depth to me about it, I just brought it up to her and she provided the bottle. It did come with a thing that said spread one scoop over food every 12 hours, is that adequate? I think I'm going to start there since I feel terribly that I didn't get it into her during her last meal, and want to get all of this good stuff into her. I'm not like totally overwhelming her with stuff am I? Ahh, sorry,this is so new and just want to make sure I'm doing everything right.

I'll get her the Pepcid today also, thanks for the recommendation on that.

I'm going to delve into those communities you both recommended... Wow, I am so amazed and encouraged by all of this. I have a lot to learn, but I'm trying to become an expert asap... and thanks to the help on this board I have learned a TON. I'm going to read over the thread some more after I feed Sasha again.
Tonight she does seem a bit lethargic, like, she kind of tilts her head when you call her name, instead of a full head turn, but she has also always been a super laid back, dozey cat, so I'm having a hard time telling what is her not being okay, and what just is her personality. I'm going to keep going with my girl, one day at a time, with her calling the shots:) Any more recommendations are always so, so welcome. I'm definitely going to re-read this thread in case I missed some things along the way. Thank you, thank you, thank you, and warm hugs all around:)

P.s. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience with Ketchie with us:) Sounds like Ketchie was a great kitty :YMHUG:
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Ahhh, another update. Sasha just gave us a bit of scare. We tried to give her the k/d by itself since while I had my back turned my other cats ate the remainder of her fancy feast. I sprinkled on the phosphorous binder, and was really wary that she was going to want to eat this... To start, she was only mildly interested in our normal food hype that we do for her (like "Oooooo, Sasha chow!!" kind of how we gauge how she is feeling), and she looked in like she would eat it and then just wouldn't, which I did kind of expect. The worrisome part came after that, when she was cuddling with my daughter and just seemed to completely zone out in her arms. Her eyes were partially open, and she was purring, but when we called her name she didn't respond, and we really thought she was getting ready to pass over. At the last second I thought to maybe entice her with some honey, and she just boom, came right back to herself, sitting up, really wanting some, eyes wide open. She took about three big finger fulls with some medium enthusiasm. This isn't the first time honey has done this for her, but apparently she isn't diabetic. I don't know what any of this means, but she does seem back to where she's been for the past day, pretty alert and comfy looking. Any insights on what could have happened, or is this kind of thing to be expected now and again? I'm trying to go with Sasha's flow on this.

As soon as a store opens I'm going to get her some fancy feast and slip some of the binder in. I really hope that she just hated that food (which I was warned she probably would), and isn't now turning down food. But she did take the honey, so I don't know. I'm getting her some better food. Ahh sorry for so many updates, all of your insights and guidance have helped Sasha monumentally. Thanks for listening, reading, and all of the guidance and support. :YMHUG:
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

In renal disease, it gets so that more water than she consumes is needed to remove toxins from the body. This may affect consciousness.

Daily dehydration check:
Gently pull up the scruff of her neck, then release.

Does the fur stay pulled up ("tented")?
- that is moderate to severe dehydration; she need fluids.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Hey BJM, thanks for that tip, it does stayed scruffed. What more can I do? Can I give her more sub q? I gave her about an inch of a 1000ml bag around 8pm last night.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

An inch is roughly 100 mL, if I recall correctly. This is a vet question, as too much fluid may overload the body and throw the electrolyte (mineral) balance off. This may affect the heart rate.

You may add some water to her food which will help. Maybe 1/4 to 1/3 water : food, if she'll eat it that way. (No dry food - she needs the water)
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

http://www.tomcomknowshow.com/how-to-administer-subcutaneous-hydrating-fluids-to-an-ailing-cat.html

Scroll down just a little and it shows a bag of fluids. Click on the bag and it brings it up a little larger. You can see the numbers on the right side of the bag.. From one number TO the next number is 100 mls. The little short line inbetween two numbers stands for 50 mls.

Giving 100 mls you just go from 1 to 2. If you need to give 150 mls then you would go to the short little line AFTER the #2 marker.

If you need to give only 50 mls then you would start at #1 and only go to the short line . If you need to give 75 mls you would start at a number and go 3/4's of the way to the next number.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

You could try asking the vet about giving her more fluids twice a day in the beginning if she is showing signs of dehydration. As BJM said, you don't want to overload her, especially not knowing if her heart is okay. Ask if you would do better with giving 75 mls in the a.m and another 75 mls in the evening. Less risk that way and she would be getting a total of 150 mls a day but split up so not taxing the heart.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Thanks for the info, I got a hold of an ER vet since my vets office wasn't open yet, and she said it probably wouldn't be good to give her more, particularly since the vet who did the exam didn't check my cat for a heart murmur, so she advised we not give her more. From what you guys said it looks like 100 ml is what she is on now.

Sasha is starting to turn down her favorite foods and is kind of out of it, but comfortable looking. Eva&Butters mentioned talking to the vet about an appetite stimulant for her, I'm going to see what the Dr. says.

I saw on Tanya's site that there was some conflict with Peptid and the Convenia shot Sasha got, and am waiting to hear back from my vet if that is a problem, and if maybe Zantac is a good alternative. I also saw some info about slippery elm bark possibly soothing ulcers so I'm running out to the store to try to get some. My husband found a 20 dollar bill in an old coat (thank you universe!!!), so Zantac/Peptid and the slippery elm seem to be a possible get. Thank you all for all of this info, it's keeping me going for Sasha. Any other suggestions would be so, so amazing and helpful. Thank you all so much.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Awesome idea Hope, I'll ask my vet that when she calls back. Thanks so much:)
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Just sent you a pm but I have about a dozen extra needles for subq fluids if you want them, they are just collecting dust in my kitty med kit at the moment so they might as well go to a good home.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Convenia.....is it worth the risk?

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=convenia Dr. Lisa's site also has info on phosphorus in food....just go to her home page and look at the index. Jeanne also gave you the link for Metacam. Charts on my cats are all marked in red....no Convenia and no Metacam.......I also make sure no shot is given without my knowledge of what it is and why it is needed.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

As the others have said, giving the fluids is good, but you may want to do half in the early part of the day and half in the afternoon or evening.

The appetite stimulants I had Ketchie on were Mirtazapine, and I also tried Cyproheptadine. But, she nearly flaked out on the Cyproheptadine and fell off of my bathroom counter. That was the last time she ever got up there to drink water on her own from the faucet. So, I stayed with very small amounts of the Mirtazapine tablets. They are easy to cut into pieces. But, you need the vet to dispense them or give a prescription to you for the Mirtazapine.

Try not to give her too much of the phosphorus binder all at once. I do believe that Aluminum Hydroxide could also be used instead of the epakitin, but you don't want to throw too much at her at this point, till you get her more stable with the fluids and with getting food into her.

You see, when a cat is very dehydrated, and has kidney disease, they feel very nauseated, and that is the reason she may sit with her head a certain way or not appear to want to eat. When you get fluids into them, they usually perk up some, and my Ketchie would then come and drink a little water from her bowl, and then eat a little food. But, like I said, she was very old, and had other problems besides just the kidney failure. So, I was really just trying to give her as much time as possible.

If you get any time, please watch that link about kidney disease in cats in the first post I wrote to you during the night. I learned a lot more just in those brief little video's on that site, than I had known. They really help you to understand what is going on inside their body when they have kidney failure.
Here is the link again: http://www.partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/pet-owners/kidney-disease/how-is-it-diagnosed There are five short video's over on the left listed. If you watch the first one, then click on the next one. They are very informative and helpful.

If you can, ask your vet about giving Sasha some canned A/D food. I gave Ketchie that in between giving her the Fancy Feast, but you have to be careful about the phosphorus in some of the FF foods. I did not realize at first how much phosphorus was in so many different canned foods.

Just try not to overwhelm Sasha's body with too many different things all of a sudden. She may be very weak from the dehydration, and you do not want to tax her heart, as the others said with too much too fast.

How much does Sasha weigh? What kind of cat is she? Oh, by the way, could you tell me your name? I could not find it through all the posts.

Below is Ketchie and how quickly she went downhill. I am not showing you this to be morbid, but to just do your best, and hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. In the picture, I had three bowls of different wet canned food set around her. I tried all I could, but in the end, she just seemed to give up, and remember she was much older than your girl. She also had cancer growing on her back by her tail, that was about 2 inches across and we did not know if she might have had it elsewhere. :(

Feb202013KetchieandCats011_zps38db455f.jpg
Ketchie before she died on February 21, 2013

Hugs to you and Sasha and your family!
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Hey guys, I've spoken to two different vets now, one said no way, don't give her more fluids. The other said basically give some to her, at the earliest noon (Right about now), why not, her prognosis is terrible no matter what. Ugh. I think what I'm going to do to balance out opinion and is do what a member suggested and give her half of her dose now, and half later, because she is really not doing well. I just pulled out her fluid bag, and there appears to be orangey-ness on the edges of the bag, and I can't tell if it's just the outside or the inside. Ahhhh, oh my god. Gonna do some research now on this, does anyone know anything about that? My vet is hard to reach, and Sasha really, really needs fluids now.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Move the bag and see if the color moves with the fluid. I think it just may be an off color from the outside material of the bag.

I would give her 75 mls now.... and then another 75 mls tonight. That's just 1/4 less but doing it twice a day may help to keep her more hydrated. If you are measuring by inches then that would be 3/4 of an inch.
 
Re: Update on Sasha, kidney failure, desperately need advice

Okay the orange when I moved the liquid around in the bag looked like it was totally on the outside, phew. I just messed up and gave her half of the 50 I meant to give her. 100 ml is what the doc said to give her for the day (is that enough for an 11 pound cat?), so should I try to do this again (she seemed more uncomfortable this time), or will it release the liquid I already gave her? The stupid marker wiped off ahhh.

I got the Pepcid, and since I noticed she was struggling to chew or swallow yesterday, the vet suggested I mash up the half pill, mix it will tuna liquid and put it in her mouth with a syringe. I got about half in, in like two doses and she responded kind of badly to it. Opening her mouth really widely, gagging, and a little foaming at the mouth. I decided to put the breaks on that for the time being, and maybe will retry if the fluids help her to feel a bit better. I'm going to see if food seems interesting again to her, and I'm going to call my doc about the appetite stimulant, I forgot to ask last time I talked to her. I'm trying to breathe and keep it together for Sasha and keep all of this straight. All of you guys are helping me so much, I can't thank you enough.
 
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