Sam's First Year on Tresiba!

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

Something I've been curious about lately is the long-ago days when lente and ultralente were used to treat FD. The few bits I've been able to find describe them being excellent for sugar kitties -- then they were discontinued in favor of NPH and the newly released Lantus (for use in humans; as far as I can tell no consideration was given to the cats using them).

That's typical. Manufacturers of human insulins make the insulin for humans, not cats.

Does anyone around at the time remember if Lantus -- when it began being used for cats -- worked better, the same, or worse for our sugar kitties? It had to have been a huge shake-up, regardless.

If memory serves me well, this all happened about a year before or at least sometime within a year of Alex's diagnosis in July 2006. Therefore I don't have first-hand knowledge. However, I do remember a lot of ultralente users who weren't happy that lente and ultralente insulins were discontinued. I was one of those people who read every post in every forum and followed up on all links to other forums and feline diabetes boards world-wide.

I remember reading about several FDMB members using Lantus early on (2005), especially member Marcus and Langu. Marcus was successful with using Lantus aggressively. Langu went OTJ rather quickly (3-4 months?). It was quite the accomplishment considering tight regulation with Lantus had not been accepted on the FDMB yet. It's actually what inspired me to find out more about tight regulation with Lantus.

At the time, Rand's TR Protocol was considered too dangerous. Roomp and other laypersons from the German Katzen Message Board created the same protocol in use on the FDMB today, but wasn't really talked about as much as Rand's. I suppose/guess it was because Rand had the name and honor associated with her research in feline diabetes whereas, a group of cat parents (just like us) did not. Interestingly enough, several years later Rand scrapped her own protocol and hooked up with Roomp and members of the German-Katzen Board. This union soon led to the German TR Protocol (created by laypersons) being published.

The historian in me is just really, really curious Any existing threads from that time?

I wish. Unfortunately, no. They were lost in cyberspace due to an upgrade/change in software. However, if you're willing to dig through the Pet Diabetes Wiki, you might find some of what you're looking for. You'll find info on insulins, case studies, and a whole lot more. The down-side is this wiki hasn't been kept up-to-date. Broken links are more common that not. You may or may not find what you're looking for.

Sam's still doing good. Even better, he slept more these last two nights. I like sleep, he likes sleep; sleep is good lol!

Yaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!

There's been a steep spike in his appetite that I can't account for, though. His weigh in is supposed to be this morning -- I'm waiting for him to finish with the 'important business' before I bring out the scale

Hmmm, interesting. I wonder what that's all about.

The bad lump from his rabies shot has gone down, although it's not completely gone yet. I'll keep checking it several times a day. I keep a sheet of paper where I squiggle a blob on how the shape and size feels to me so I don't have to second guess my memory.

That's a great way to keep track of the lump!



Go Sammi!
Day 9 OTJ!!!

 

[Sam & Esse]

HAPPY DAY

!!! Go Sam!

So glad to hear he's quieted down at night and letting you get some sleep. Hope the lump keeps improving!

Thank you! As we all know, if a cat doesn't want to sleep -- nobody gets to sleep lol!

If memory serves me well, this all happened about a year before or at least sometime within a year of Alex's diagnosis in July 2006. Therefore I don't have first-hand knowledge. However, I do remember a lot of ultralente users who weren't happy that lente and ultralente insulins were discontinued. I was one of those people who read every post in every forum and followed up on all links to other forums and feline diabetes boards world-wide.

I remember reading about several FDMB members using Lantus early on (2005), especially member Marcus and Langu. Marcus was successful with using Lantus aggressively. Langu went OTJ rather quickly (3-4 months?). It was quite the accomplishment considering tight regulation with Lantus had not been accepted on the FDMB yet. It's actually what inspired me to find out more about tight regulation with Lantus.

At the time, Rand's TR Protocol was considered too dangerous. Roomp and other laypersons from the German Katzen Message Board created the same protocol in use on the FDMB today, but wasn't really talked about as much as Rand's. I suppose/guess it was because Rand had the name and honor associated with her research in feline diabetes whereas, a group of cat parents (just like us) did not. Interestingly enough, several years later Rand scrapped her own protocol and hooked up with Roomp and members of the German-Katzen Board. This union soon led to the German TR Protocol (created by laypersons) being published.

Hi Jill!

Is it silly that, 14 years after the fact, it makes me happy and relieved to hear that Langu went OTJ with Lantus? I read that lente was discontinued in 2006, but if Marcus and Langu had such success in 2005, it means that the caretakers of sweet kitties weren't left entirely hopeless when lente and ultralente insulin were no longer available.
...And is it a possibility that all of us should have in the back of our heads, that the manufacturers of our choice of insulins can decide at any time to discontinue? Fairly recently there'd been a lot of commercials on TV for Lantus; 'Stick with what you trust!' I'd imagine they wouldn't've felt the need for the commercials unless they were losing users to the newer ultra-longs -- even their own Toujeo. I don't think it's anything that's imminent... Lantus is still a huge money-maker, but eventually...

Are there still people trying to follow Rand's original protocol? Occasionally I see someone new to the board saying they've been following the 'other' TR. Social media sites scare me, so I haven't gone out of my way to look It's sad, though, that it takes the addition of a person with letters after their name to lend respectability to the work of laypersons. Data is data, no matter who collects it -- and most of the time I'd trust the layperson's interpretation of the data more than the scientists', especially when dealing with a 24/7 issue like FD.

I wish. Unfortunately, no. They were lost in cyberspace due to an upgrade/change in software. However, if you're willing to dig through the Pet Diabetes Wiki, you might find some of what you're looking for. You'll find info on insulins, case studies, and a whole lot more. The down-side is this wiki hasn't been kept up-to-date. Broken links are more common that not. You may or may not find what you're looking for.

I thought that might be the case. I'd tried Wayback Machine, but while there'd been two capture attempts in 2005, there's nothing from FDMB saved until 2010. That's pretty cool too, though, seeing an old layout! I'll try digging through the Wiki today, as long as the room stays cool enough I might not find exactly what I'm looking for -- but I'm sure I'll find something worthwhile to read. All information is good!

Go Sammi!
Day 9 OTJ!!!

Thank you! Go Sammi go!

 

[JeffJ]

Those no-shot numbers are looking great. Sammi will be the poster child for Tresiba. Although I suspect other Tresiba users may not get OTJ results, this has been a great thread for the new insulin.

I suspect dosing protocols are different across the world. FDMB is probably only found by less than 1% of all diabetic cat owners. And I would bet that many of them don't do daily testing, as they may not have the money, or the knowledge to accomplish the test results properly.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

Is it silly that, 14 years after the fact, it makes me happy and relieved to hear that Langu went OTJ with Lantus? I read that lente was discontinued in 2006, but if Marcus and Langu had such success in 2005, it means that the caretakers of sweet kitties weren't left entirely hopeless when lente and ultralente insulin were no longer available.

There were a few kitties who went OTJ on Lantus. Form what I've seen, insulin manufacturers give plenty of notice when discontinuing one of their products. Caregivers who fear switching will often stockpile the discontinued insulin to prolong the inevitable. It happened back then.

Things were also different years ago. The Lantus group I joined had about 6 - 7 daily posters. The BIG insulin group back then was the PZI group. Basically, the same thing happened when PZI was discontinued. The PZI group dwindled. The lantus group grew and so did a small group of Levemir users.

At one time there was a separate forum dedicated to tight regulation. In the beginning participation was by invitation only and the forum was hidden from the general membership (for safety). That soon changed, but all but a couple of those posting used PZI.

...And is it a possibility that all of us should have in the back of our heads, that the manufacturers of our choice of insulins can decide at any time to discontinue?

Sure they can! There's not much that has stood still since I joined in 2006.

Fairly recently there'd been a lot of commercials on TV for Lantus; 'Stick with what you trust!' I'd imagine they wouldn't've felt the need for the commercials unless they were losing users to the newer ultra-longs -- even their own Toujeo. I don't think it's anything that's imminent... Lantus is still a huge money-maker, but eventually...

I suspect it has more to do with the introduction of Basaglar. Basaglar is Basaglar is less expensive then Lantus and some insurance companies have begun to cover Basaglar use rather than the more expensive Lantus. I've heard, but haven't confirmed, some chain-type pharmacies have committed to carrying Basaglar rather than Lantus. Sanofi Adventis has to be feeling the competition!

Are there still people trying to follow Rand's original protocol? Occasionally I see someone new to the board saying they've been following the 'other' TR.

Every once in awhile we have someone arrive here whose vet still has an old copy (there were two versions, the latest from June 2006) of Rand & Marshall's TR Protocol. I'm one of the few who have stuck around long enough to quickly recognize it from the past.

What our members don't realize is there are several different dosing methods out there for the various insulins. They tend to think the only 'correct' dosing methods are what they see on the FDMB. The FDMB has simply focused on those methods which are successsful while remaining safe when guidelines are followed. Those are the methods you'll see promoted on this site. That doesn't mean that other methods are not successful. There's more than one way out there to achieve one's goal!

It's sad, though, that it takes the addition of a person with letters after their name to lend respectability to the work of laypersons. Data is data, no matter who collects it -- and most of the time I'd trust the layperson's interpretation of the data more than the scientists', especially when dealing with a 24/7 issue like FD.

It is what it is.

I'd tried Wayback Machine, but while there'd been two capture attempts in 2005, there's nothing from FDMB saved until 2010.

I've been able to get back to 1999 on the Wayback Machine (270 saves between October 12, 1999 and May13, 2019). I can't seem to get back any further.

I'll try digging through the Wiki today, as long as the room stays cool enough I might not find exactly what I'm looking for -- but I'm sure I'll find something worthwhile to read. All information is good!

Good luck!

DAY 10 OTJ!
Keep on' keepin' on Sam!!!

 

[Sam & Esse]

Hi Jeff!

Those no-shot numbers are looking great. Sammi will be the poster child for Tresiba. Although I suspect other Tresiba users may not get OTJ results, this has been a great thread for the new insulin.

Sammi will be a very dusty, disreputable poster child for Tresiba lol! Right now, the feline user base is too small to draw conclusions, even taking into account the previous European users. Sam started Tresiba as a long-term diabetic, and while it looks like he'll achieve remission, it's a strong possibility he'll be back on insulin in the future. Especially considering the ear rash/sore problem that's been ongoing. I mean, I hope Sam's remission is strong, but I won't be disappointed if he does need insulin support again in the future. I'm trying to be ready for all possibilities There's 3 known Tresiba kitties in the ISG: Sam, long-term diabetic heading OTJ; Jessica's Conan, a long-term diabetic with other health problems (I give a quick prayer every time I bring up his SS since there hasn't been an update since February); and Cheryl's Yoda, a long-term diabetic that doesn't have a SS available, and that we haven't heard from in quite some time.

While I'd like to claim that 1 out of 3 long-term diabetic cats going into remission is a promising percentage -- at a sample size this small, it's an almost meaningless claim. Sam could be an outlier. Or not. Who knows Until there are more users, we're pretty much stuck in the speculation stage. I think that new Tresiba users (in the near future) will still mostly be long-term diabetics, though. It may be a long, long while before a newly diagnosed kitty gives Tresiba a try; there's not much reason for them to, when the other insulins have established track records.

I suspect dosing protocols are different across the world. FDMB is probably only found by less than 1% of all diabetic cat owners. And I would bet that many of them don't do daily testing, as they may not have the money, or the knowledge to accomplish the test results properly.

Very true. I tend to forget this, but I shouldn't. After Sam was diagnosed, I was actually grateful that is was Sam, and not one of my two girls. (They were my grandmothers, and I took them in when my Uncle's "solution" was to leave them at a cat rescue .) It took over 3 years for Spice girl to leave the bedroom she'd claimed as her own, 4 years to be able to pet her -- with one hand only, and she still can't be picked up. If Spice became diabetic, I honestly don't know what I'd do. All the tips and tricks to try... it took years of them to get her to sit in the living room. I have great empathy for those that come to the board with cats that just can't be handled.

Hi Jill!

I suspect it has more to do with the introduction of Basaglar. Basaglar is Basaglar is less expensive then Lantus and some insurance companies have begun to cover Basaglar use rather than the more expensive Lantus. I've heard, but haven't confirmed, some chain-type pharmacies have committed to carrying Basaglar rather than Lantus. Sanofi Adventis has to be feeling the competition!

Basaglar popped into my head several hours after I posted yesterday Thank you! That would be a better explanation for the ad campaign. On one hand, I feel the tiniest bit bad for the manufacturers when their patents and exclusivity expire. On the other hand -- my goodness! The prices they charge! It's government protected pillaging in the US

Every once in awhile we have someone arrive here whose vet still has an old copy (there were two versions, the latest from June 2006) of Rand & Marshall's TR Protocol. I'm one of the few who have stuck around long enough to quickly recognize it from the past.

What our members don't realize is there are several different dosing methods out there for the various insulins. They tend to think the only 'correct' dosing methods are what they see on the FDMB. The FDMB has simply focused on those methods which are successsful while remaining safe when guidelines are followed. Those are the methods you'll see promoted on this site. That doesn't mean that other methods are not successful. There's more than one way out there to achieve one's goal!

Thank you for this reminder! I'm afraid I'm a bit... snobbish... since the FDMB has been the perfect resource for me I do apologize to anyone reading my remarks that might have found them insulting, elitist, or... snobby We are, all of us, fighting the same battle against FD.

I've been able to get back to 1999 on the Wayback Machine (270 saves between October 12, 1999 and May13, 2019). I can't seem to get back any further.

Hmm. I think I need to try a different search. I've got 'Saved 616 times between February 11, 2005 and July 9, 2019.' Drat. I wish there was an easier way to set up more generalized searches there. Or -- clearer searches. Oh! There it is, going from felinediabetes.com instead of felinediabetes.com/FDMB. Wow! None of the actual messages were saved (of the ones I clicked on), but how wonderful to see how the board looked in '99! It's yellow -- but I remember that kind of board well! What a happy glow of nostalgia!

DAY 10 OTJ!
Keep on' keepin' on Sam!!!

I've marked a star on Saturday of his blood glucose log book lol! Sam's rash-thingie is trying to pop back up on his left ear. I've said I don't mind if Sam needs to cut his OTJ trial short, and I don't. But maybe it's mankind's competitive nature that's having me give pep talks to Sam. "Just 4 more days, Sam! 4 more! You can do it!" Sam's not the only silly goose in this household!

I hope everyone has a wonderful day today! Even if it is Wednesday

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

Hoping the rash-thingie doesn't throw off Sam's numbers.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

I've got 'Saved 616 times between February 11, 2005 and July 9, 2019.' Drat. I wish there was an easier way to set up more generalized searches there. Or -- clearer searches. Oh! There it is, going from felinediabetes.com instead of felinediabetes.com/FDMB.

Ahh, I knew that, but completely forgot! LOL! Thanks for the reminder!

Sam's rash-thingie is trying to pop back up on his left ear. I've said I don't mind if Sam needs to cut his OTJ trial short, and I don't. But maybe it's mankind's competitive nature that's having me give pep talks to Sam. "Just 4 more days, Sam! 4 more! You can do it!" Sam's not the only silly goose in this household!

He's soooooooooooooooo close now! He can do it!!!
Go Sam!!!

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Is that waterfalls I hear nearby? Go Sammi! Happy Day 13!

 

[Sam & Esse]

Hoping the rash-thingie doesn't throw off Sam's numbers.

Thank you! So far, so good rash-wise. There's been no new spots, and the ones he has look like they're taking the first steps towards healing up. I'm very grateful that it appears to be a mild outbreak this time

He's soooooooooooooooo close now! He can do it!!!
Go Sam!!!

Sam gobbled pork loin with us last night. With piggy in him, he says he can do anything! --As long as he can nap afterwards lol!

Is that waterfalls I hear nearby? Go Sammi! Happy Day 13!

Thank you! It's very exciting! I'm planning on salmon for dinner tomorrow -- since salmon pool up at the base of waterfalls before making their way further upstream. And Sam loves salmon. To the point that while I'm sitting down to eat, he'll stretch up as far as he can to bat at my cheek to remind me to share

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

he'll stretch up as far as he can to bat at my cheek to remind me to share

A very civilized cat with excellent table manners. Rover would reach out and the top of my son's head a gentle pat from the top of his cat tree conveniently overlooking a window and the dining room table, especially when halibut was served.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Mine aren't so civilized......have had my old guy try to grab food off a fork on the way to my mouth if I am not sharing fast enough for him! He's also stolen defrosting pork chops and cooked chicken breast off a buffet laid out on the dining room table!

Sounds like Sammi is going to have quite the celebration dinner!

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

One of mine liked to bring offerings into the house to share. Quite often, semi-eviscerated rabbits. Nope. Not happening.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Ewww! And I thought my middle child's offering of a dead mouse dropped by my face on the couch was bad!

 

[Camille and Cyclone]

Ew indeed! My favorite was when Cyclone came charging in while I was watching TV and dropped a gigantic dead waterbug on the coffee table. He was quite disappointed when I shrieked and tried to climb through the wall behind me.

 

[Sam & Esse]

Lol! Sam's a mighty hunter; but follows the catch and release policy. Last year he caught a bird in the oleander, and in typical Sam style trotted a few steps proudly before dropping it on the ground and sprawling on top of it. I went and gently scooped the bird out from underneath the Fluffy Belly of Doom and told the bird sternly I hoped it used this as a teaching experience, because the next cat that caught it would probably have teeth Then I let the bird go, and Sam spent the next 15 minutes telling me off because he hadn't been done sitting on it