Sam - AMPS 251

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KristenP&Sam

KristenP&Sam

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Today is day 2 1/2 of the schedule feeding experiment and as you can see, Sam's had a record low bg this morning. After calling this into the vet, she told me to go ahead with the 2 units, but if the +6 was at 60 or lower, to feed him. Also, for the weekend, if any of his preshots are less than 150 but over 100, I'm to only give 1 unit. We have my husband's company Christmas party to go to tonight, so our cat sitter (who is also a vet tech at our regular vet) will be here to take care of Sam. I'll report back in with his +6.
 
Any time this weekend (since they're not open to call) when his AMPS or PMPS is over 100 but under 150, the vet wants me to shoot 1 unit.
 
wow, OK - did that change from before - I thought it was 1u under 200? maybe I'm just confusing myself. :smile: - it's still early here.
 
I don't know, Gator, just going with what she told me. Did someone else's vet give them different info?

In other news, I wish I could feed Sam. He's crying for food and I feel bad!
 
I would be a little nervous to shoot 1 unit into a 100 bg. That doesn't leave them alot of room to drop.

Look at your ss and see the percent of drop from PS to nadir to see what I'm talking about.
 
oh yes, i agree with robin. 1u into 100, even 140...eeks. how much lower can he go at 100? 40 points before you have to do something. double check that. i would think maybe .5 u but i suppose if your around to check often........
 
If he had a 100 bg, I probably wouldn't shoot. I'd retest in an hour or two, then reassess. Even at 150, I'd probably retest in an hour. And if I did shoot, I'd probably add in a third meal.
 
Sam's +6 is 44. I'm feeding him. And I've told the cat sitter not to shoot tonight if he's under 150, that I would retest when I got home and assess then. I KNEW 2 units was too much. Now I'm a little mad at myself. Sam's not acting odd in any way, but I feel like that's lower than I'm comfortable with.
 
Technically 44 is OK but definitely time to feed. The real problem here is that you do not know how long he was at those numbers [or even if he went lower]. When too much insulin is given I've seen them plummet at +3 and continue with low numbers all the way though +8. So if any "rule" is to be broken here, potentially that's where I would start. That will give you a better feel of what's going on exactly. That +3 can be critical to capturing the way that PZI works. And what's going on at +3 can be a good indicator if more testing [or other action] that cycle is going to be needed.

The dosing that's been recommended is aggressive is some aspects. But again if the vet is willing to stand behind you on that then I don't want to argue too much with that - I just don't think it's my place.

As for +6 and 44 I would test again in 1/2 hour. By +8 the insulin should be wearing off so the danger is reduced. You generally would like to have a couple upward trending numbers or at least something not below 40.
 
wouldn't a cat who's eating is restricted so much naturally have a lower BG reading? i mean, let's say the amps reading is 12 hours since the last meal, on an empty stomach, wouldn't BG be lower naturally?

i know ecid but just theorizing. i know in humans if they go that long, their BG will often drop too low. mine definitely does and i get all shaky and disoriented.

one thing to keep in mind when restricting food too much is that if their BG reading gets too low, they can't self medicate as a lot of cats will and do.

sooooo, on a two times/day feeding schedule, i'd probably be uncomfortable shooting 2 units too.

good catch today :-)
 
44 to 148 in 1 hour? that was'nt karo you were feeding i'm assuming...and we don't know for sure 44 was the low point so i'm thinking this looks like a bounce, (rebound)
 
When he was at bg 44, I fed him some low carb canned food (Friskies or 9-Lives, Sea Captain's Catch or some such thing). After that is when he hit 148.

And...I caved today on the food a little. Sam was SO hungry around 6pm, crying and milling about where we feed them to the point that I just couldn't stand to see him hungry any more. I gave him one teaspoon of diced chicken and juice. He wolfed it down and looked for more. I tried to keep the other cats on the scheduled feeding too, but they eat so fast when the food shows up that they end up barfing it back up. It's happened every morning. And Jack, our asthmatic, is constantly hungry - his inhaled meds jack up his metabolism - so we've taken to feeding him in secret so Sam doesn't smell the food. Pretty much the entire household, cats and humans, are unhappy at this point. This experiment isn't going well. :sad:
 
Not overweight, he's 8.4 pounds. Vet thinks scheduled feedings is the best way to regulate him and move him toward remission.
 
Poor hungry kitties. Watch your back! One might try to bite off your foot if given the chance. I know mine would :lol: I hope you guys get in a rhythm that works for you soon. If it's really not comfortable for you, or your other kitties, it's just not going to work, though. You don't need a whole miserable household! Maybe discuss some more flexible feeding options with your vet. Maybe everyone just needs some more time to settle in to the new routine. Stay positive!
 
Wow, is that a normal weight for him (small cat?). I would let him eat as much as he wants. I agree small meals spread out are the way to go (or free feeding) rather than 2 large meals, but I wouldn't restrict calories overall. I can't get my mind around explaining why right now, but with diabetes they need the calories.
 
For some background on Kristen & Sam:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32252
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32208
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32184
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32111

Kristen is fairly lucky to have a very involved vet. And she is doing an experiment [a more controlled one with the vet involved]. Kristen was free feeding and getting spikes which looked like duration issues to me but could have easily been rebound too. The experiment with the food was the vet's idea which I think is rough around the edges but... in some regard might have something to it - we'll just see. But with the aggressive dosing I think Kristen should be testing more to ensure Sam does not need to be fed [or more action take] at more than just +6. Sam is also a Keytone kitty.

I haven't heard from Kristen how things have been going though the past couple days.

EDIT: it looks like Sam's getting some major lows. And again if I were going to be breaking rules I would be testing more before the +6 [like +3 then +4 and +5 depending on the sitch] to know if those lows are happening earlier and even lower. So you could feed [or do anything else] necessary. But Sam was nadiring at +6 it seemed like before maybe. So it would just take more testing before +6 to really find out.

I think the average weight of cats is normally 7-12 pounds?
http://www.vetinfo.com/catnorm.html
 
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