Salem #2

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He's not too low and you just want him to surf so you really didn't need to give him a whole can of food. For future reference..... Best to give a little bit of food and retest to make sure he's come up some before you overload him with food. You don't want him full if he really needs to eat for safety sake. If you are trying to get his BG up so you can get some rest, then give him higher carb food. It looks like this could be an active cycle so no more food right now and retest in an hour.
 
+3 he's at 62. He only ate about half of each can I gave him so hopefully he'll eat more if I need him too. He hasn't been eating as much lately which I wonder if that's why he's going low earlier.
 
Ok. Give him a bit of HC food and retest in 30 minutes. You're going to have to make sure he is holding BG without food being needed to know when he's stopped dropping.
 
Okay I just gave 2 tsp of HC food. He's eating most of it. I'll test him again in an hour at +4 and see where he's at.
 
I'd test him in 30 minutes. The sooner you figure out what he's up to the sooner you can take action so you can get some sleep.
 
He's at 58 now. That's about the same reading right? Should I give more food or wait?
 
So it's about the same but on your AT2 it's too low so I'd give him a bit of honey or syrup on his gums and another bit of HC food and retest again 20 minutes after.
 
Sorry, I thought I mentioned I’m using the Relion right now bc I’m almost out of at2 strips. Sorry I know that’s confusing I just ran through them quicker with all these nights I’ve had to test him so I’m using my backup. So he’s not quite at the too low point on there I think? But if he drops anymore he is.
 
I'd still give him the boost. 50 is the threshold on the human meter and he's getting close enough given it's night time and you don't want to be dealing with this all night.
 
Okay cool I gave him a boost. I’ll test him again in a little while. Since we’re past +4 hopefully he’ll start going back up soon. I just wonder what I’m going to give him tomorrow but I’ll cross that bridge when I get there.
 
Okay he's up to 118 now at +5 so maybe I overdid it a little. Here's to hoping he doesn't bounce from this.
 
He likely will bounce and you just go with the flow. Salem doesn't hold bounces long. You have no idea how many people would envy you for that alone! Leave some food out for Salem to eat if he feels the need. :)
 
So I should probably stick with the .5 tomorrow morning? I'll be at work all day again. My brother will be here but I don't know if Salem will let him test him.
 
AMPS is 224 on the Alphatrak. Not sure what I should give today. Maybe I should stick with .5 for a few days?
 
That is likely a bounce so yes I'd stick with the 0.5u. It's also an AT2 reading again which would be lower on the Relion although we don't just how much lower.
 
Yeah he was impossible to get blood from for some reason so I used the AT2 because it requires so much less.
 
They’re also both not wanting to eat this morning. I guess I need to go get a different kind of FF because they’re suddenly not wanting the pates.
 
I at least got Salem to eat some so that’s good. I gave the .5 so we’ll see what it does today. I don’t want him to be too low for tonight anyways so it’s okay if he goes a little bit higher than he has been.
 
and if they don't want to eat, crumble a bit of treat on top -- for Catcat, that's bonito flakes, other cats like parmesan or romano cheese, Fortiflora, or freezedried chicken or fish .. ECID ! -- leave them a little hungry so they want more ...
 
Okay I just got home and tested him and he’s at 129 on the Relion. Which means he probably didn’t shoot up today so I’m going to keep him at .5 tonight. I’m giving his shot at 7:40 so that’ll give me a two hour window to boost him up before the 10 deadline of no food.
 
Okay just took PMPS and he's at 112 on the Relion and 194 on the AT2. I'm going to give the .5 and hope that's a good amount to bring him down, but not too much.
 
SO I'm about to take Salem's +2 but I really need some dosing advice for tomorrow. He can't have any food after 10 tonight and I have to give him a shot at 7:30 on no food and take him to the vet after that. They said they will monitor him and give him glucose in his IV if they need to but the vet won't do the dental unless he's in normal range from the insulin. I've been giving him .5 and it's bringing him down, and the vet said to give him half a dose but I'm just wondering if .25 would be enough. Or if I should give slightly less than .5? I almost want to give a little more than half bc the vet can monitor him. It's just screwed up because I lowered his dose a good bit from when I talked to the vet on Friday.
 
Okay +2 is 104 on the ReliOn and 184 on the AT2. Now I'm concerned that it's not high enough and maybe I should have stuck with the .75. I need him to get low enough tonight to not have a hypo but be low for tomorrow morning. He still has room to drop though.
 
104 is a good number! At a reading of 112 (ReliOn), I would not have given a larger dose. 50 is the danger point for human meters. Can you test at +4? My cat's min is at about +5. If he starts approaching the danger number, test every 20 minutes and be prepared to treat for hypo conditions. I'm still pretty new at this, and my cat appears to be in remission, but I've been following a lot of threads. Salem looks like his BG numbers are decreasing over the last several days, so the dosing of 0.5 seems like it is about right.

You've had really good advice and Salem looks like he is in good range for the surgery tomorrow.
 
I’m hoping he is! He just decreased so fast and I had to keep up with it. I’m going to test him at +3 and +4 but I really only want to give food if he’s absolutely way too low bc he can’t have food now if I want him to have the dental done. I’m just hoping he’ll drop enough to be in a good range tomorrow so I can give him half a dose and get this taken care of because I really think his teeth are driving up his numbers, just judging by how giving him antibiotics dropped him dramatically over the course of a week.
 
As long as you can test often enough to ensure his BG starts increasing without going too low, you shouldn't need any food. I've read in several posts that you should not give insulin if reading is below 200 on human meter and 240 on AT.

If Salem is not going to get any food until after the surgery, I would be worried about giving him any insulin in the morning. It will cause his BG go down without any carbs to prevent it from going too low. Someone experienced would be able to provide advice. Giving insulin with no food? Hmmmm, personally that seems ill advised. Look at how much his BG drops *with* food. Without food, it will go even lower. As Salem's numbers are in the blue, insulin with no food could cause too much of a drop.
 
So the vet said to give him half a dose and they’re going to monitor his glucose the whole time. They said they can give him some in his IV if he starts getting too low. The problem is apparently he needs to be in a normal range for him to get the anesthesia. My issue is I’m not 100% sure on what to give bc I’ve been giving him so much less.
 
I see; Salem has to be in the green. "they can give him some in his IV if he starts getting too low". Something to raise the BG? Do you know the time of the surgery? Is it soon after the time you normally give him insulin? I'd be concerned that depending on the timing of his shot and the surgery, his BG doesn't pass through the normal range and be too low.
 
So I backed up his shot time to when I need to give it so he should be okay on that. The issue is how low he’ll be in the morning. If he’s around 130 or 140 I think it’ll be okay but if he’s higher I’m worried he won’t drop enough. I just took his +2 and he’s at 174 on the Alphatrak so he hasn’t dropped very much. I probably should have given him a slightly higher dose but I also didn’t want him going too low because I can’t feed him. It’s just so tricky when he’s not consistent.
 
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It sounds like you and/or the vet have thought this through pretty well. Salem's evening numbers look more stable. The mornings are all over the map. I hope the fates are looking down favorably on you and Salem in the morning and that everything goes well.
 
Thank you! I’m hoping he’ll be pretty low tomorrow morning but who knows. I guess worst case scenario I just have to do it another day.
 
Thank you! +3 is 104 on the Relion so he’s not really dropping. He’s sleeping right now and just kind of acting like he doesn’t feel well. Guessing this isn’t going to be an active cycle, but I’m hoping he’ll come down a bit by tomorrow morning.
 
Okay Salem’s ps today is 167 on the Alphatrak. I need to give him enough to get him in the 80-120 range. He’s also not getting food though.
 
I have no idea why but I got no notifications from this thread whatsoever since 6:30pm last night.
I see no reason why Salem would have to be in "normal" numbers for anaesthesia. Never heard of that before and goodness knows there's been a lot of cats have dentals done here that were no where near regulated that tightly.

I hope all went well with the vet and that Salem's dental helps pull his numbers down even more. Do keep us posted. I'm leaving myself a note to check on you later!
 
Thank you! So an update: they did the dental and he did really well. The vet also told me to stop changing his doses and keep him on one for a week so I think I’m going to keep him on the .5 for a week just to see what it does especially after getting this done. Then I can always go back up to 1 if I need to.
 
Catcat's dental didn't drop things drastically but it does seem that his numbers are more consistent since then -- and he seems to feel more energetic as well

hope things go as well or better for Salem
 
So the vet was saying that cats can’t have their doses adjusted much so I’m wondering how true that is? Obviously I want to keep him on the same dose because that’s easier for me but it’s hard when I have to drop it due to his numbers falling a lot.
 
So glad to hear Salem did well. Bet both of you are glad that's over and done.

While the vet might think you should hold a dose for a week, as you've discovered, kitty doesn't always allow you to do so and you are left with a decision to either skip or reduce. Sometimes it's a matter of CG convenience/need for sleep too. Dosing would have been more consistent for Salem if his numbers had not dictated some caution. That said, ProZinc is an in and out insulin and in some cases, people are successful using sliding scale dosing so I think perhaps that comment was meant more as a disapproval of you making dosing decisions (vets often don't like that) rather than any commentary on the progress you've made with Salem.
 
Yeah I’m going to just leave him at .5 for the next week and see what it does. I would like to be able to give him a consistent dose and catch up on some sleep myself so hopefully it’ll keep him low enough for the next week or so and we can re-evaluate next week after I get more numbers. I mean I get what he’s saying about not changing him too much but when it’s the weekend and I can’t talk to him I just have to do what I can.
 
to a certain extent it depends on which formula of insulin you're using -- the quick in-and-out types such as Caninsulin/Vetsulin and Novolin N, can be used with varying doses, though it's more reasonable to hold a steady dose until you learn how your cat reacts, since ... ECID

Lantus, Basaglar, and Levemir, being depot-type insulins, really do need a consistent dose to be efficacious, since the injections are "refilling" the depot rather than being immediately

for ProZinc, I defer to those who are experienced with it -- not my area of experience
 
ProZinc is an in and out one I think so that’s why I was more okay with varying it. I mean I want to leave him on a dose but when he’s super low at night and I feel it’s unsafe to give him a full dose that’s when I change it.
 
Yay! I'm glad to hear that everything went well this morning!

Consistent dose can be good advice to avoid people changing doses on their own and then getting into terrible cycles of bouncing. And as Salem is unregulated, there are likely to be changes as he adjusts to having consistently lower BG levels. If you worry about going too low and letting the higher end be, the folks here can offer advice on dosing. Getting the numbers to be more predictable, even if a bit high rather than looking like a random color sampling will be helpful.
 
Yeah Linda has been amazingly helpful with dosing advice. I do really want to keep him consistent and I’m hoping his numbers will be more consistent now so I can just keep him on one dose. I feel like I’m starting from scratch at .5 but I’d rather give him some wiggle room if he comes down any more.

Also I bought a fancy camera so I can now watch the cats on my phone and talk to them when I’m not home! Salem is fascinated by the camera moving which is funny.
 
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