Sabrina's A Little Better Today

Status
Not open for further replies.
BriniWeenie

BriniWeenie

Member Since 2020
I am living in Spain and there is not a lot of resources/things available like in other parts of the world so it makes things more difficult with getting Sabrina the help she needs. I guess I'll provide some background first but I'll try not to get too off track and I'll fill in details as I go.

Due to current financial hardship I was unable to take Sabrina to the vet back about a month or so ago when I first noticed her obsession with water. She was always fascinated by water, she loved splashing in water bowls, playing in the sink or shower. She's always loved water. I've had her since she was a kitten, she will be 15 in a few months. But around Christmas I thought her usual water fascination was extreme. Over the past few weeks I noticed she was drinking excessive amounts. I also noticed the strange walk. I suspected she was diabetic and I knew I had to take her to get looked at but I did not have the funds to get her tested right then and there.

A friend loaned me the money, which I got yesterday morning. I took Sabrina to the vet right away and the vet on duty was somebody I had never met before. I heard there was a new vet at the clinic. I've been going there for 12 years and the vets come and go every couple of years. She never met me or Sabrina before.

She did a urine test and took blood and also did a strip test. Her BG was 325. Sabrina's weight is very low. She was always a thin cat and all this time she was eating, drinking, using the box and I didn't notice she was losing weight. She only weighed 2.15kg. The vet seemed reluctant to recommend any other treatment other than to put her to sleep. I had already explained to her that I would have brought her a few weeks ago if I had the funds to pay for tests. I did in fact, have the funds yesterday and I told her I was willing to pay for whatever tests and treatments she needed. I borrowed this money to get Sabrina taken care of and that's exactly what I did as soon as it hit my bank account.

This vet didn't seem to think there was a point in trying other methods but I pressed. She told me she would give her some fluids but I should consider making the decision to put her to sleep later that day. I thought to myself "What vet doesn't consider any form of treatment?" The results of Sabrina's blood test wouldn't be back until Monday because they get sent out and nothing will happen over the weekend. She said so herself that Sabrina was content/not in pain so what was the rush to make the decision? At least wait until the results come back so I know if there's something else going on with Sabrina or what. I wondered if she was judging me and thought maybe I was wasting her time due to the fact I didn't bring Sabrina in sooner, so how was I going to pay for it?

But i thought maybe my emotions were getting the better of me because of course I do have feelings of guilt for not taking her in before but I figured I'd have a better chance of getting her treated if I went with some money, then ask if I could set up a payment plan. For goodness sake, my cats have been patients there since 2008 and I've brought more clients their way by recommending them. So I had hoped that by going there today and paying for the initial tests and working out future payments, the vet might work something out with me, but this vet didn't know me. But she could see in my file that I've been going there for years, I don't have any outstanding bills, and almost always paid everything in full before.


She told me to come back later in the evening to "make my decision" but of course during my hours at home I spent all day looking up all the information I could so when I went back there later I was not simply going to put her to sleep without at least TRYING something. Sabrina is a strong willed cat and I have had cats tell me before when it was their time to say goodbye. I wasn't getting that vibe from Sabrina, I was getting the vibe that she wanted to live.

I decided that if she kept pushing I would ask to take Sabrina home and I'd go get a second opinion from another clinic. But when I returned later that night, another vet was on duty. One who knows me and one I know is reasonable.

So I went in and we started talking about what the blood test might reveal, home treatment, insulin, diet, everything that I would have to do to on my end to get Sabrina well again and she said yes she would work out a payment plan with me.

She went in the back to get Sabrina so she could show me how to do injections and get her ready for going home, then she changed her mind. She said Sabrina's weight was a problem and she also didn't think there was any hope and that she recommended compassionate euthanasia. I said to her " If she is not in pain and is not suffering like you say, is there any harm in me taking her home tonight and trying these things anyway even if you think she has no chance? Can I at least try?"

She agreed to that and gave me 4 shots of insulin for the weekend. I am not sure what kind is is, she gave me I don't know what the term is, but she filled the syringes for me so I didn't happen to see the name. She told me to feed her pate/wet food, keep her warm and administer the injections every 12 hours. Then come back on Monday for the test results and see if by some miracle Sabrina has made an improvement.

What I am asking is there truly no hope for Sabrina, am I just ignoring reality? It was after reading this forum all afternoon that gave me hope that she could be helped. Some of the threads I read involved cats that sounded like they were much worse off than Sabrina and they got well again, so let me know what you think.

I tried not to get too off track and rein it in when I thought I was getting too carried away but I suppose that's to be expected. I'm probably missing a lot of details too as my head is pretty scrambled right now.
 
Hi,
I'm so sorry to hear about Sabrina, and I'm too new here myself to be of much help. But be encouraged that good help will certainly be along and will reply to you soon, I am sure.

In the meantime, since you don't know what kind of insulin or maybe even how much is in each dose your vet sent home, it would be good to have some honey on hand, just in case Sabrina's blood glucose drops too low. My vet prescribed high doses for my kitty at first, and we had a couple of scary rounds. But some food and honey pulled her through.

It would be great if you could pick up an inexpensive human blood glucose monitor; it will be easy to test Sabrina to see how her glucose levels are doing. Also, you've probably read but in case you haven't, her losing weight might be due to diabetes--not being able to "use" the food she eats. She might gain weight if her glucose is regulated.

There are members here from all over the world; I'm sure someone from Spain will chime in with advice for you too.

Sending good thoughts your way.
 
I do have a human blood glucose monitor, or my husband does. He's Type 2, but I will need to look up how to use one on a cat. I know it was 325 at the vet's this morning but she was on fluids until about 8:30PM when I went down to see how she was doing/see if she had made any improvement. She looked much better by then, but after the whole conversation about her low weight, the vet didn't recommend keeping her in overnight or anything so I just thought I'd take my chances and bring her home. So long as she's not in pain then there is no harm in treating her at home. I wasn't just going to put her to sleep without trying something, anything.
 
I TOTALLY agree. And that's so good that you have a monitor handy. Let me look around and see if I can find some of the links about using them. Basically we just nick the edge of the ear and test the blood drop like your husband would. That doesn't seem pressing right now but would be handy if something unexpected happens. Since your husband is diabetic, you are way ahead of the game here--you will already understand hypo and how the disease works and all that. I am so glad that Sabrina came home with you.
 
To tests a cats glucose you can get the blood from the ear. You can use your husband's meter to test. If you look closely at your cat's ear, you will see a small vein running close to the edge of the ear. Between this vein and the edge of the ear is where you want to use the lancet to get the blood. Many of us find it easier to use the lancet free hand than using the lancet device since it gives us more control. To help get the blood flowing before you test massage the ear towards the tip. You want to test at least 2 hours after your cat has eaten. Here is a link with info on home testing http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

Can you send us a picture of one of the filled syringes? We may not be able to tell you what insulin your vet gave you, but can tell you if we think the dose is too high. Also gives us the number from your test.
 
BriniWeenie said:
I will need to look up how to use one on a cat.
Click to expand...

You prick the edge of the ear to get a blood drop and test it just like your husband!
sweet spot diagram.PNG


325 is NOT that high! We've had cats here that started out in the 700's so I totally think you're doing the right thing by giving her a chance.

Hopefully Sabrina will have a good weekend and on Monday, you'll be ready to face your vet with lots of good information on going forward with treatment!

You can do this! We can help!
 

Attachments

  • sweet spot diagram.PNG
    sweet spot diagram.PNG
    75.3 KB · Views: 597
That was the first thing I looked up when I came home, what is high for a cat because I had no idea what range it should be in. I had seen some threads here with people who had cats with much higher levels than that so I wondered why the day vet basically wrote Sabrina off as a lost cause, not even wanting to wait until her lab tests came back. Since she's been back home, she's used the litter box fine, she's eaten her wet food. Oh, yeah because of where I live, most things close by 9pm, so I knew I wouldn't be able to buy Friskies Pate or anything specific like that from a supermarket until morning as it was almost 9PM by the time we got out of there and nowhere near any supermarkets. I did buy some pate from a small corner store, but they didn't have any of the decent stuff. I just knew that she couldn't eat dry food anymore and that would do until morning. She ate all her food, she's drinking water, she's walking around a bit.

We are going to start the insulin in the morning, and we'll also do a glucose test. The diagram is very helpful!

I tried to take a photo of the syringe but the lightning in my house is terrible this time of night. I can barely tell if there's any insulin in it or not. I watched her fill them but maybe there is only a small dose?
20200201_021043.jpg
 

Attachments

  • 20200201_021043.jpg
    20200201_021043.jpg
    17.7 KB · Views: 570
I think it's just an ordinary syringe. I saw her put the insulin in them, though. I pretty much live in a place where there isn't a lot of choice or things readily available. Maybe they didn't have any in stock, I don't know. It's kind of that way with a lot of things here, unfortunately. Poor Sabrina. That is her in my profile pic, but she was only a kitten back then. She gave me that same look when I picked her up from the vet last night and it made me happy. It meant Sabrina's still got some attitude left and she was feeling more like herself. She also likes to tell me off with two short meows. When she did the short meows at me on the drive home I knew she was feeling better than she was that morning. She's chatty when she's happy so I knew the fluids had done her some good.
 
Hi and welcome to you and little Sabrina. She is very pretty.
I get really cross with vets who just suggest euthanasia as a way out when things might be difficult.
Don't be persuaded to put her to sleep if you think she is OK.
If it is just diabetes and she is thin....and she is willing to eat and use the litter box, and you can give her insulin and a low carb diet, I would definitely not consider euthanasia.

A lot of cats loss weight when they have been diagnosed with diabetes. This is because they can't utilise the nutrients in the food properly until they are getting insulin regularly and their Blood glucose levels improve.
My Sheba lost a lot of weight when she was first diagnosed but put it all back on later as she improved..

I would start testing the blood glucose levels.
Find out on Monday what type of insulin they gave you.
You will need proper insulin syringes. We can help you with everything.
Keep posting and asking for help.
 
It is hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like a very small dose, and that's a fine place to start. As others have mentioned 375 is high, but it's not that high. My Billy was over 500 when diagnosed.

I am in the US. I'm sure members in your area will be more useful, but I thought I could give you some canned food guidelines that will help. You're looking for high protein and low carb. Often pates work better than bits in gravy, as the gravy often contains carbs. Even an inexpensive brand will do. Avoid ones with ingredients that list grains, potatoes, tapioca, beans, peas, even things like potato or corn starch.

It would be good if you can home test with the meter you already have. It can take a little practice, but it's completely doable. Make sure you girl gets her own lancet, you don't want her sharing with your husband. You may want to make a gradual switch to the wet food, if she isn't much used to eating it, to avoid tummy upset. If she's used to eating a certain amount of wet food, it may not be an issue.

I want to show you a couple of pictures of my Billy, who is 11 years old. He was very sick when diagnosed. We were also upset with ourselves that we didn't get him into the vet sooner. We didn't realize how much trouble he was having. He was so sick, he laid around with his eyes half closed, he had neuropathy in his back legs, and he didn't eat for close to three days.


Now I want you to see another picture. This was taken only 11 days after he was diagnosed. His neuropathy is almost gone. He's eating. He's already more alert and active than he had been in months.


Now, a short month after diagnosis, there's no neuropathy at all. Billy is feeling great, and going into remission. He hasn't had any insulin at all in 18 days. Click on the link in my signature that says Billy's Speadsheet, and you can see his progress.

Every cat is different. But it does not take long to see if treatment is going to help your sweet girl feel better. There is absolutely no reason not to try. Unless the blood work shows some additional issues, then you can reevaluate. Cats with diabetes can live a long and happy life. And your girl should be able to gain weight on the canned diet, as it's easier for cats to utilize. She may need to get her blood sugar regulated first before she gains much, but she should start feeling better right away. Just the change in food will make a positive difference, and the insulin will give her pancreas a chance to heal.
 
It very well could turn out that Sabrina has other health problems but that was what I was thinking to myself the whole time. Why couldn't the vet just wait until Monday before having that discussion with us, once the results came back. She does have neuropathy in her back legs, but these are things that can be treated. That's why I didn't think we should give up on her so soon. If those test results say there are other things wrong, then ok we will deal with that when the time comes. It just didn't sit right with me to euthanize her before the tests even came back, and not trying anything at all. And the evening vet even said "Ok, if you want to try you can, but I don't think she will get better". But here I am now, and you bet I will try.

Billy looks great and in such a short amount of time! It gives me hope that Sabrina can bounce back too. That is exactly why I think Sabrina deserves that chance. She was never one much for wet food, she was never even one for eating little pieces of meat. I do sometimes feed the cats wet food but she was never interested in it before, but it is a different story now. She will eat anything that's put in front of her, she ate all the pate and she liked it so much she ended up wearing some on her nose and got some on her face. She is eating, drinking, peeing and is walking around a bit. If she wasn't doing any of those things I would feel differently about her future, but I feel in my heart that she has a chance.

The packaging on the syringe says Sterican.

I didn't mention before that we have given our cats injections ourselves before, but not insulin. We have other rescue cats besides her. We do have experience with some things, but Sabrina is our first diabetic. In the past, the vet has loaded this type of syringe up with antibotics or painkillers, so they do tend to promote home treatment at the clinic. We just have had no experience with insulin and where to inject it but she showed us how before we left and loaded those ones up for us.
 
Don’t give up. We have had quite a few cats here that the caregivers was told to think about euthanasia and in most cases the cat recovered well. Diabetes is very treatable. So is neuropathy.
You will need to get proper insulin syringes. Ask about what type of insulin you will be giving. . Try and get them to prescribe Lantus or one of the long acting insulins.

She may have been dehydrated. A lot a diabetic cats can get dehydrated. Try and add some warm water to her food if she will allow it.

Do you know if they tested for ketones? If not ask them to test the urine on Monday. Or you can go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from a pharmacy and test her urine by dipping a test strip into the urine and reading the results against the colours on the side of the bottle. Anything above a trace needs vet attention.

Keep feeding her throughout the day and night. It’s great she is hungry! Make sure she eats well before the insulin dose. I would wait 30 minutes after feeding her before giving the insulin and offer her food several times in the first 6 or 7 hours after the insulin.
 
BriniWeenie said:
The packaging on the syringe says Sterican.
Click to expand...

OK...those look to be U40 insulin syringes but the syringe barrel is too big. It holds 1ml (up to 40 units)

upload_2020-2-1_1-26-37.png


upload_2020-2-1_1-27-13.png
 

Attachments

  • upload_2020-2-1_1-26-37.png
    upload_2020-2-1_1-26-37.png
    219.2 KB · Views: 779
  • upload_2020-2-1_1-27-13.png
    upload_2020-2-1_1-27-13.png
    61.3 KB · Views: 800
Last edited:
You might see if THIS PLACE or THIS PLACE ships to you. It looks like your vet either used Caninsulin or ProZinc which are U40 insulin's.

These syringes only hold a max of 20 units and have half unit marks.

Other than trying to find sources for better syringes, there's really nothing you can do about the syringes until Monday when you can find out which insulin it is and whether the vet is going to work with you.
 
What I'm worried about is what if we go there on Monday and they refuse to give proper syringes or insulin because neither vet thought I should proceed with treatment?

The first vet did that strip test but I didn't know at the time that's what she was doing. It wasn't until I got home and started looking things up did I learn what the test was for. She collected the urine, put the strip in and then compared the reading on the side of the bottle. She didn't mention ketones or not that word at least. She said the sugar levels were high and then she did the glucose test with the 325 reading. All she said to me was "It could be a few things, its complicated". I didn't know what kind of a test she was doing, I thought the urine was collected to be sent off to the lab along with the blood test.

While I had a feeling Sabrina was diabetic before I took her in, I didn't know what kind of tests would be done other than blood. I do kind of live in the back of beyond. I wouldn't exactly call things state of the art in my neck of the woods. Even our health care system is like that. Oh and getting things shipped here , I might see it some day or I might never. I ordered stuff from a pet supply place in another area of Spain a few years ago and it was supposed to arrive in a few days. It took about a month and it was a huge hassle trying to track it down. These are the kinds of extra challenges we face living where we do. I am originally from the US but I've lived abroad since the early 2000s. There's some things I'll never get used to. I always think "Oh if this were the US or the UK this wouldn't be a problem" and I get frustrated at some of the hurdles we face.

I guess when Monday rolls around I'll only talk to the other vet, the reasonable one who knows us. I don't want to take Sabrina back to the day shift vet because she seemed pretty set on euthanasia and would be less likely to work with us than the other one. I guess it's all down to the blood tests. It could be something bad, but it might not be. But I will spend this weekend doing everything in my power to help Sabrina.
 
Last edited:
BriniWeenie said:
She collected the urine, put the strip in and then compared the reading on the side of the bottle. She didn't mention ketones or not that word at least. She said the sugar levels were high and then she did the glucose test with the 325 reading.
Click to expand...

Sounds like she tested the urine for glucose, saw it was positive and then did the bloodwork to get a better idea of exactly how high it was.

I haven't seen @Gill & George for awhile here, but I think I remember them being in Spain too.
 
I wish I had taken note of the insulin bottle. I saw her filling the syringes, we were talking, she was showing us how to inject, my head was everywhere. I was just so excited that she gave us insulin to take home because it wasn't looking like she was going to when she changed her mind and thought we should euthanize Sabrina too. The whole day was an emotional rollercoaster.
 
We understand....totally!! When we get this diagnosis, it can really make your head spin....especially if your vet (who you trust to make good decisions for your furkid) tells you to give up.

The vet that diagnosed my China said "insulin is a hassle...just feed her this dry prescription food and she may live another 4 months but she'll go blind first....are you sure you don't want to just put her down today"?

I got on the internet that night, found this board and had another 5 1/2+ years of love before she passed from cancer.
 
Hola,

I am Ann in Sweden, Suecia.

Since Sabrina only weigh as little as 2,15 kg now, what was Sabrina's normal weight before?
 
Welcome to the Best Place You Can Be! I too, because of financial situation, had to wait to take my Sugar Baby, Mr. Moonie, to the vet. He had weight loss, drinking and peeing excessive amounts, and neuropathy. His BG was 555 when we were finally at the vet. I wasn't told to consider putting him down, but I received very little information. The vet did give me a meter and a bag of Purina DM both for free. She didn't mention that the strips for the meter would cost and arm and a leg or that I wouldn't be able to get them except online. Nor did she say that dry food isn't good. She gave me a prescription for insulin and sent me on my way. Only one time since I've been given the news that My Child Has Diabetes has the Dr's office called me. Today, his water intake and output is under control and he's gained some weight back. We're still working on getting his numbers down and he still walks with a wabble. But without all of the help from everyone here, Mr. Moonie an I would not know what, or how, to do anything to help him. Much Love from Us to You and Sabrina as you enter into this New Adventure!
 
Assuming the blood work doesn't bring any more bad news, I cannot imagine any vet refusing treatment if you wish to continue. Sure, they might try to talk you out of it, but if you stand your ground and say you want to try for a month and then reevaluate, I'm sure they will work with you.

It's so good that she's hungry! Such a positive sign! She knows she needs to eat. At this point, I would feed her as often as she wants it, since she needs to gain weight. Just pull the food up 2 hours before test and injection time, to make sure she'll eat when she gets her shot. This will also give you a more honest BGL when you start home testing.
 
We have a member in Spain that has a 9 month old kitten. This member only speaks and writes Spanish, so we have been using google translate to work back and forth. Helping her over the last month or so. Using Prozinc insulin. That may be the insulin your vet gave you. Impossible to tell, but that looks like a U40 syringe.

Because of that, I know some of the limitations of trying to find appropriate diabetic cat food in Spain. She is ordering from Zooplus in Germany, because the Zooplus in Spain does not carry all the foods we have suggested. Feringa, Animonda Carny (beef selections), other food choices from this chart European food chart. They are all <10% carbs. Not sure which ones you can get in Spain.

When looking at cat food labels in Spain, try to avoid foods that have a lot of carb based starchy ingredients like grains (wheat, corn, rice), peas, potatoes, cassava, tapioca.

You need better insulin syringes for sure. You want the smallest "volume" syringes you can find. Those 1ml syringes will be almost impossible to accurately and consistently get a small amount of insulin measured. Look for 3/10 cc (ml) syringes. Maybe at a local pharmacy to start.

Where in Spain? Far from a big city? Other member is in Barcelona.
 
Gave her the insulin this morning, the dosage was so small it was virtually non-existent but I'm guessing that's because of her weight. Prior to weight loss, she weighed about 4kg. She was always a thin cat. My husband's glucose monitor was jammed today so we haven't yet done the test. He's fixed it, or he thinks he's fixed it, so we are going to try doing a test in a little while. He gets them for free through the health care system, as well as the test strips, so all he has to do is ask the nurse at our local health center for a replacement if his isn't working correctly. He is at the supermarket now, buying a whole selection of delicious wet foods for Sabrina to try, haha. She has eaten and used the box today but mostly stayed on the bed. She and I took a nap together in the afternoon. She's still chillin' out on the bed now and we'll try doing a BG test in a little bit. Hopefully the monitor isn't acting up again. Typical!

Edit: I am in the Canary Islands, I'm not on the mainland so it's even more difficult to get access to things sometimes because everything has to be shipped in from somewhere else. There is still very much an old fashioned attitude in some parts about cats here. Some people still see cats as vermin and not pets so there is very little choice for cat food and litter in general. There's much much more for dogs than cats.
 
Last edited:
BriniWeenie said:
I am living in Spain and there is not a lot of resources/things available like in other parts of the world so it makes things more difficult with getting Sabrina the help she needs. I guess I'll provide some background first but I'll try not to get too off track and I'll fill in details as I go.

Due to current financial hardship I was unable to take Sabrina to the vet back about a month or so ago when I first noticed her obsession with water. She was always fascinated by water, she loved splashing in water bowls, playing in the sink or shower. She's always loved water. I've had her since she was a kitten, she will be 15 in a few months. But around Christmas I thought her usual water fascination was extreme. Over the past few weeks I noticed she was drinking excessive amounts. I also noticed the strange walk. I suspected she was diabetic and I knew I had to take her to get looked at but I did not have the funds to get her tested right then and there.

A friend loaned me the money, which I got yesterday morning. I took Sabrina to the vet right away and the vet on duty was somebody I had never met before. I heard there was a new vet at the clinic. I've been going there for 12 years and the vets come and go every couple of years. She never met me or Sabrina before.

She did a urine test and took blood and also did a strip test. Her BG was 325. Sabrina's weight is very low. She was always a thin cat and all this time she was eating, drinking, using the box and I didn't notice she was losing weight. She only weighed 2.15kg. The vet seemed reluctant to recommend any other treatment other than to put her to sleep. I had already explained to her that I would have brought her a few weeks ago if I had the funds to pay for tests. I did in fact, have the funds yesterday and I told her I was willing to pay for whatever tests and treatments she needed. I borrowed this money to get Sabrina taken care of and that's exactly what I did as soon as it hit my bank account.

This vet didn't seem to think there was a point in trying other methods but I pressed. She told me she would give her some fluids but I should consider making the decision to put her to sleep later that day. I thought to myself "What vet doesn't consider any form of treatment?" The results of Sabrina's blood test wouldn't be back until Monday because they get sent out and nothing will happen over the weekend. She said so herself that Sabrina was content/not in pain so what was the rush to make the decision? At least wait until the results come back so I know if there's something else going on with Sabrina or what. I wondered if she was judging me and thought maybe I was wasting her time due to the fact I didn't bring Sabrina in sooner, so how was I going to pay for it?

But i thought maybe my emotions were getting the better of me because of course I do have feelings of guilt for not taking her in before but I figured I'd have a better chance of getting her treated if I went with some money, then ask if I could set up a payment plan. For goodness sake, my cats have been patients there since 2008 and I've brought more clients their way by recommending them. So I had hoped that by going there today and paying for the initial tests and working out future payments, the vet might work something out with me, but this vet didn't know me. But she could see in my file that I've been going there for years, I don't have any outstanding bills, and almost always paid everything in full before.


She told me to come back later in the evening to "make my decision" but of course during my hours at home I spent all day looking up all the information I could so when I went back there later I was not simply going to put her to sleep without at least TRYING something. Sabrina is a strong willed cat and I have had cats tell me before when it was their time to say goodbye. I wasn't getting that vibe from Sabrina, I was getting the vibe that she wanted to live.

I decided that if she kept pushing I would ask to take Sabrina home and I'd go get a second opinion from another clinic. But when I returned later that night, another vet was on duty. One who knows me and one I know is reasonable.

So I went in and we started talking about what the blood test might reveal, home treatment, insulin, diet, everything that I would have to do to on my end to get Sabrina well again and she said yes she would work out a payment plan with me.

She went in the back to get Sabrina so she could show me how to do injections and get her ready for going home, then she changed her mind. She said Sabrina's weight was a problem and she also didn't think there was any hope and that she recommended compassionate euthanasia. I said to her " If she is not in pain and is not suffering like you say, is there any harm in me taking her home tonight and trying these things anyway even if you think she has no chance? Can I at least try?"

She agreed to that and gave me 4 shots of insulin for the weekend. I am not sure what kind is is, she gave me I don't know what the term is, but she filled the syringes for me so I didn't happen to see the name. She told me to feed her pate/wet food, keep her warm and administer the injections every 12 hours. Then come back on Monday for the test results and see if by some miracle Sabrina has made an improvement.

What I am asking is there truly no hope for Sabrina, am I just ignoring reality? It was after reading this forum all afternoon that gave me hope that she could be helped. Some of the threads I read involved cats that sounded like they were much worse off than Sabrina and they got well again, so let me know what you think.

I tried not to get too off track and rein it in when I thought I was getting too carried away but I suppose that's to be expected. I'm probably missing a lot of details too as my head is pretty scrambled right now.
Click to expand...

BriniWeenie said:
I am living in Spain and there is not a lot of resources/things available like in other parts of the world so it makes things more difficult with getting Sabrina the help she needs. I guess I'll provide some background first but I'll try not to get too off track and I'll fill in details as I go.

Due to current financial hardship I was unable to take Sabrina to the vet back about a month or so ago when I first noticed her obsession with water. She was always fascinated by water, she loved splashing in water bowls, playing in the sink or shower. She's always loved water. I've had her since she was a kitten, she will be 15 in a few months. But around Christmas I thought her usual water fascination was extreme. Over the past few weeks I noticed she was drinking excessive amounts. I also noticed the strange walk. I suspected she was diabetic and I knew I had to take her to get looked at but I did not have the funds to get her tested right then and there.

A friend loaned me the money, which I got yesterday morning. I took Sabrina to the vet right away and the vet on duty was somebody I had never met before. I heard there was a new vet at the clinic. I've been going there for 12 years and the vets come and go every couple of years. She never met me or Sabrina before.

She did a urine test and took blood and also did a strip test. Her BG was 325. Sabrina's weight is very low. She was always a thin cat and all this time she was eating, drinking, using the box and I didn't notice she was losing weight. She only weighed 2.15kg. The vet seemed reluctant to recommend any other treatment other than to put her to sleep. I had already explained to her that I would have brought her a few weeks ago if I had the funds to pay for tests. I did in fact, have the funds yesterday and I told her I was willing to pay for whatever tests and treatments she needed. I borrowed this money to get Sabrina taken care of and that's exactly what I did as soon as it hit my bank account.

This vet didn't seem to think there was a point in trying other methods but I pressed. She told me she would give her some fluids but I should consider making the decision to put her to sleep later that day. I thought to myself "What vet doesn't consider any form of treatment?" The results of Sabrina's blood test wouldn't be back until Monday because they get sent out and nothing will happen over the weekend. She said so herself that Sabrina was content/not in pain so what was the rush to make the decision? At least wait until the results come back so I know if there's something else going on with Sabrina or what. I wondered if she was judging me and thought maybe I was wasting her time due to the fact I didn't bring Sabrina in sooner, so how was I going to pay for it?

But i thought maybe my emotions were getting the better of me because of course I do have feelings of guilt for not taking her in before but I figured I'd have a better chance of getting her treated if I went with some money, then ask if I could set up a payment plan. For goodness sake, my cats have been patients there since 2008 and I've brought more clients their way by recommending them. So I had hoped that by going there today and paying for the initial tests and working out future payments, the vet might work something out with me, but this vet didn't know me. But she could see in my file that I've been going there for years, I don't have any outstanding bills, and almost always paid everything in full before.


She told me to come back later in the evening to "make my decision" but of course during my hours at home I spent all day looking up all the information I could so when I went back there later I was not simply going to put her to sleep without at least TRYING something. Sabrina is a strong willed cat and I have had cats tell me before when it was their time to say goodbye. I wasn't getting that vibe from Sabrina, I was getting the vibe that she wanted to live.

I decided that if she kept pushing I would ask to take Sabrina home and I'd go get a second opinion from another clinic. But when I returned later that night, another vet was on duty. One who knows me and one I know is reasonable.

So I went in and we started talking about what the blood test might reveal, home treatment, insulin, diet, everything that I would have to do to on my end to get Sabrina well again and she said yes she would work out a payment plan with me.

She went in the back to get Sabrina so she could show me how to do injections and get her ready for going home, then she changed her mind. She said Sabrina's weight was a problem and she also didn't think there was any hope and that she recommended compassionate euthanasia. I said to her " If she is not in pain and is not suffering like you say, is there any harm in me taking her home tonight and trying these things anyway even if you think she has no chance? Can I at least try?"

She agreed to that and gave me 4 shots of insulin for the weekend. I am not sure what kind is is, she gave me I don't know what the term is, but she filled the syringes for me so I didn't happen to see the name. She told me to feed her pate/wet food, keep her warm and administer the injections every 12 hours. Then come back on Monday for the test results and see if by some miracle Sabrina has made an improvement.

What I am asking is there truly no hope for Sabrina, am I just ignoring reality? It was after reading this forum all afternoon that gave me hope that she could be helped. Some of the threads I read involved cats that sounded like they were much worse off than Sabrina and they got well again, so let me know what you think.

I tried not to get too off track and rein it in when I thought I was getting too carried away but I suppose that's to be expected. I'm probably missing a lot of details too as my head is pretty scrambled right now.
Click to expand...
 
this is awful. I don't understand why they would encourage you to do this without even trying intervention. I will tell you from experience that once my cat started his treatment and his sugars were regulated he did gain weight and was back to a normal healthy weight. Please take a good look at Dr. Pierson's food charts. I was able to regulate my cat's diabetes and kidney issues strictly by using this chart. Even the vet was impressed with his regulation and his kidney numbers improved after 2.5 years. Please do not give up hope, and if it means a different vet, so be it.
 
Dr Pierson's food charts are useful for members in the US.
Most of those foods are not going to be available in Spain.

Sadly, many vets recommend euthanasia for a cat. Not only in Spain but in the US also.
Being in the Canary Islands off the coast of Morocco and nowhere near mainland Spain makes it even more difficult to source foods for a diabetic cat.

Maybe tell us what you were feeding and we can check the ingredients list to see if there is anything that catches our eye.

Maybe tell us what you were feeding your cat before and how many other pets you have and are feeding.
 
What kind of insulin does your husband use? You mentioned he is a diabetic. Maybe the insulin he uses could be used for a diabetic cat.

Brainstorming here. As you fight for your cat. You are your cats best advocate. Keep on trying.

At this point, Sabrina needs food and lots of it. Many small meals a day,so she doesn't vomit.
 
What are the insulin syringes your husband uses for his diabetes? Does he use a U40 concentration insulin or a U100 concentration insulin?
 
My husband is Type 2, so he does a weekly injection with a single use pen. However, I do have a friend who is friends with a vet, or she used to be close friends with her. I'm not sure how much contact they've had lately. They had some kind of fall out about a wrong diagnosis of one of my friend's cats and my friend now goes to my vet. I don't know if they are still as close as they were since then, but I will ask anyway. I have used this vet before for emergencies, but she's not in my area. So I could ask my friend to talk to her vet friend to see if I can get insulin through her and order some proper syringes.

She's lethargic tonight so I'm keeping a close eye on her. She was moving around earlier but she hasn't moved from her spot on the bed since this afternoon. I brought food and water to her, she drank a good amount of water and ate 3/4 of a 100g container of patè, and she ate a whole one a few hours before. So she is still eating and drinking but she wasn't this lethargic before.
 
Have you tried Zooplus.es? We had another member in the canaries that used them. There are a number of the foods from the UK list,available you've been given above on zooplus.es.

Below is their terms of delivery to canaries. I've found their customer service to be great.

CANARIAS
  • Pedidos con un valor superior a 69 €: GRATIS
  • Pedidos hasta 69 €: 7,99 € (PVP incluye el ICIG)
Los PVP incluyen el ICIG

Importe mínimo de pedido: 29 €

Suplemento de peso en pedidos que superen los 31 kg: 6,99 € por paquete extra enviado.

zooplus se hará cargo de los impuestos insulares: impuestos a la importación (AIEM) y tasas aduaneras (DUA).

Los envíos a Canarias se realizan con Correos Express. El pago contra-reembolso no está disponible para este destino.

Plazos de entrega para las Islas Canarias

Los plazos de entrega son entre 7 y 12 días laborales. Se enviará en un único envío semanal, por tanto, los pedidos realizados hasta el domingo saldrán en el envío de la siguiente semana para su entrega a partir del segundo martes desde la realización del pedido. En caso de haber algún festivo durante la semana del envío, los plazos podrán variar sensiblemente. Las entregas en islas menores se retrasarán un día más que para Tenerife y Gran Canaria.

INFORMACIÓN GENERAL
  • En el momento de terminar el pedido, puede indicarse la preferencia de entrega con Correos Express o con GLS. Puede ocurrir que, por las características del paquete, el pedido no pueda ser entregado con el servicio de mensajería seleccionado por el cliente.
  • Es posible que los paquetes que pertenecen al mismo pedido se entreguen en días diferentes en algunas ocasiones.
  • Las mensajerías enviarán un email notificando la fecha de la entrega.
  • El servicio de pago contra-reembolso está disponible con ambos servicios de mensajería para entregas en la península e Islas Baleares y tiene un coste adicional de 2,90 €.
  • El importe total de los gastos de envío se indicará una vez que te identifiques en tu cuenta o cuando indiques tu dirección de entrega en el momento de validar tu pedido.
  • Los pedidos suelen ser procesados en un plazo máximo de 48 horas después de haber realizado el pedido.
Si se elige transferencia bancaria como método de pago, el pedido comenzará a procesarse una vez recibido el importe del mismo.

I'm on mainland Spain, very rural, I get all my stuff delivered.

My local pharmacy gets my bd microfine demi syringes in for me (I used lantus a u 100 insulin). You might find using the local pharmacy cheaper and more helpful when it comes to sourcing supplies for you.

My vet also painted a bleak picture, I cried all the way home. But I found this site and persevered an George, went into remission.

I found that the strips for the insulin meter are expensive here in spain, I do have a freestyle lite as a backup (I can get strips at pharmacy at short notice) and then I bought an SD code free meter and strips, from the UK, they deliver all over the world, so I can't see you would have a problem.
Here's their website below.

https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/codefree-blood-glucose-monitoring-system-mmoll-or-mgdl/

On the plus side I found that Lantus (human insulin that I chose to use after doing some research) is much cheaper here in Spain than it is for our friends across the pond. (My vet wanted to use vetsulin but I refused, and asked for a lantus prescription which she happily gave me)

I do get how difficult bit can be here in Spain, and I know being in the canaries adds to the complexity. I get how cats are treated as second class citizens at the vets, George was my vets first Diabetic cat. Mostly because not many folk took their cats to the vets, glad to say that I see that slowly changing.

Hang in there there is always hope and you don't need a vet knowledgeable in diabetes to treat your cat.
I basically dosed my cat using the protocols for dosing on this site and with the help of the members here, that got us into remission.

Please don't give up hope.:bighug::bighug::bighug:.
 
My Billy had many days when he was lethargic. As long as your girl is still eating and drinking, then it's a positive sign. Sometimes I think they have quiet days when their body is trying to heal. Just a thought, no scientific data to back that up.
 
Were you able to get some Ketostix from a pharmacy to test for ketones?
If Sabrina is lethargic, I would test for ketones to make sure she does not have any.
Also try to get her to drink more. Will she let you add water to her food?
 
I did wonder if the first vet had a lot of experience with diabetic cats. My husband asked her if she had ever seen a cat as sick as Sabrina and she said no. She said she had treated similar cats, but Sabrina was worse. And then after doing some research I've since learned there are cats who were much sicker than her who made a recovery and turned out ok. So maybe that's why she was so quick to suggest euthanasia. The second vet discussed home treatment with me and she seemed to be more knowledgeable but then of course my heart sunk when she said Sabrina's low weight was a problem and she changed her mind and recommended euthanasia.

And you're spot on about how the general attitude towards cats in Spain is. A lot of people especially think I'm weird because my cats are indoor only on top of it because they think I'm living in a house filled with vermin ! I only have one friend here who has indoor only cats. Everyone else has indoor/outdoor cats and they think I'm a weirdo for not letting mine out. But I say to each their own, ha.

Sabrina peed all over her bedding and she hasn't moved. I changed her bedding, cleaned her up, and now she's got a few cats keeping her company. They know she is ill. It probably comes as no surprise she has a brother named Salem!

I will see if we can get some of those urine test strips tomorrow. I am surprised the vets didn't even suggest anything like that to me, but I'm guessing it's because they think I am wasting my time treating her. We will not let the vet put Sabrina to sleep on Monday. I think we might even go there without Sabrina for the test results and see what the vet tells us. I'm afraid that once she's in there they will start guilt tripping us about euthanasia again. If she does have some kind of terminal illness, so be it. We will bring her back for that if that is the case.

I've never bought anything from Zooplus before, I'm going to take a look at their site and make an account. I used to buy things from Tiendanimal but after that last debacle with it taking a month for me to get my order and me having to hunt it down myself I stopped ordering from them. It's not them, it's the courier they use that's the problem. I hope that isn't the case with Zooplus. It's pretty much like that any time I try to order things online, it's not the company, it's usually the courier that's the problem. We don't have UPS or FedEx or anything like that. Something might ship with UPS but it gets handed over to one of these couriers and then packages get lost in the shuffle.

I wouldn't be surprised if the insulin I've got is the human kind. It's common for vets to use human medicine for a lot of things, like antibiotics, eye drops, so I have a feeling that human insulin is the preferred kind.
 
Last edited:
The insulins most of us use are human insulins.....like Lantus (glargine) and levemir.
There are animal specific insulins like Prozinc and Vetsulin.
We find the longeracting insulins like Lantus, levemir and Prozinc the best for cats.

Don't let them make you feel guilty. Sabrina is your cat, you are her advocate and you are paying the bills.
You know her best. Just politely say....no we do not want to do that thank you. We want her treated.
Maybe your vet does not know a lot about feline diabetes.
As long as you can get the insulin and the correct syringes we can help you with everything else.

Please go out and buy the Ketostix or Keto-diastix as soon as you can to test the urine for ketones.
 
BriniWeenie said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the insulin I've got is the human kind.
Click to expand...

If it is, those are the wrong syringes. My money is on the insulin being Caninsulin.

I'm glad to see @Gill & George was able to comment. Having someone in the same country can be such a valuable resource! (even if you're in totally different parts)

As for Sabrina's weight...as long as there isn't something else going on that's causing the weight loss, she can gain most (if not all) of it back again once she's better controlled. If you look at China's profile (in my signature) you'll see her "before" and "after" pictures. She was 6.8lbs at diagnosis (and her ideal weight was about 15lbs) …..within 6-7 months, she'd gained pretty much all of it back (plus some!)
 
I'm frustrated as neither me or my husband have managed to get a successful reading with the glucose monitor. We did get blood but there wasn't enough on the strip for it to read. I know it will take some practice to do it properly. We will try again later because Sabrina's a little agitated. I watched the videos but my attempt at it didn't go as smoothly.

She still hasn't moved from her spot but she ate another 75g of patè about 2 hours ago and she looks like she's hungry again. She's also drinking water. Her lethargy is worrying me so I really wanted to get a reading to see where she's at.
 
Did your warm Sabrina's ear? Take an old sock, put some uncooked rice in the toe, tie a knot in the top of the sock. Heat in your microwave. You now have a warm 'rice sock' you can use on her ears to bring the blood flowing to the "sweet spot".

After warming the ear, use a double poke of the lancet, two pokes close together to get a bigger blood drop. Give her a treat, successful test or not. Always a treat for being a 'good girl'.
 
I did warm her ear before trying but perhaps it wasn't warmed up enough. It'll try the warm sock next.

In the past 30 minutes she ate another 50g of paté, got up and used the litter box herself and is walking around a little. Her poo is more solid today. There was a slight difference with it yesterday but it's not nearly as soft as it was prior to starting treatment. Every little thing is an improvement. :)
 
Tomorrow is the big day when the test results come back and I'm so nervous. She is doing better, the improvements are small but they are there. The big **if** is what the lab tests say. I know what we need to do if the tests show there are no other problems, but I do also have to prepare myself for if she does have some kind of terminal illness.

Part of me wants to show both vets that they were wrong but I know that's just my emotions getting the better of me. The second vet has been there for 4 or 5 years, she's always been good with the cats and I've never been dissatisfied with her before. I can't really say I'm dissatisfied with her about this either. I understand that vets are only human, they can make mistakes and they don't know everything. Maybe Sabrina **is** the worst case she and her colleague have seen.

If the tests come back and show there's no other health problems and the clinic refuses to help us because they think Sabrina is too ill, then we will try asking our friend's vet friend for help or ask one of our connections at an animal shelter if they can help. I mean we borrowed money to get Sabrina treated but we don't have unlimited resources to go to new vets and start the process over and over again. Besides, this vet we go to happens to be one of the ones that's better equipped. Some aren't equipped to do more than the basics. So I'd rather not sour our relationship with this vet over Sabrina, but I will fight for her and I won't take no for an answer.

But then it all comes back to getting past tomorrow and the test results. If everything else comes back ok, then I know given a couple of weeks she'll be fine. I see the difference already, I can only imagine what a week or two weeks from now will be like. And of course, that's depending on tomorrow's lab results.
 
Last edited:
You are your little girl cat Sabrina's best advocate.
Keeping all paws crossed here for good news tomorrow.
Sending "get better vines" to Sabrina and "calming vines" to you.

Mindfulness breathing. Concentrate on your breath and block out all other thoughts. Even for only a minute or 2 can be helpful.

@Juls and Billy had a dramatic turnaround too. You should see the pictures from day 1 and about 10 days later.

There is hope.
 
Well they didn't even send Sabrina's blood test to a lab, they tested it in house only. So I don't have a lab report to share like I thought I would because it never went to one. I guess they really were set on putting Sabrina to sleep that day if they never sent her blood out.

She weighs 2.20kg so she gained a little, her BG was 326. And the insulin is Caninsulin. It was the first vet who saw us today, we were going to wait until evening when the other vet was on but we needed insulin as we only had enough for Saturday and Sunday. The vet was pretty ok with us today and she even gave us the insulin for free. She suggested we bring Sabrina in for a weekly update and also helped us do a BG test, it was hard finding the right spot on Sabrina but we've got it now. We went to the pharmacy and bought syringes on our way home.

So with that information I can start keeping a spreadsheet to mark her progress. I also got a few photos of her so I can show how she looks right now. There isn't a whole lot of change from the day we brought her in to today, but at least she is not worse. And she did gain a teeny bit of weight. All that eating she did too, she ate about 1000g of pate over the weekend.
 
Sabrina! Keep on eating and get better. Your momma loves you and is trying very hard to get you better.
What dose of Caninsulin did the vet start you off with?
We ear test our cats.
Would you like some tips on doing that?
No other medical problems for Sabrina except for the emaciated condition and the diabetes?
She'll probably need to eat at least twice as much as a non-diabetic cat. At least for now.
Getting her to eat and gain back some of that lost weight is very important right now, as you already know.

Now for some technical stuff.
Caninsulin is known as Vetsulin here in the USA. Same product, different name.

We have a standardized spreadsheet we use here. So you don't "have to reinvent the wheel".

FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions
Understanding the Spreadsheet/Grid

Take a look again at this link. It has some basics on preparing a hypo kit, basics of how to use the message board, setting up information in your signature to help us help you better, etc.
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

Caninsulin is known as Vetsulin here in the USA. Same product, different name. You might find this link useful
Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin)

We have a separate ISG (Insulin Support Group) for Caninsulin, but there are not as many people that post there. I would suggest that you stay in the Welcome and Main forum for now. More people here to see you posts.

So relieved that the vet was willing to start Sabrina on insulin.:bighug::bighug::bighug:

p.s. I'm not sure we have ever had someone from the Canaries before. You have some unique challenges for food options, vet care, and simply getting supplies to where you live.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top