? ???S about Lantus & my technique 4/17 TAFFY-AMPS 310/+3 335/+10.75 271/PMPS 258/+2 209/+4 239

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Sigh. Really, Taffy? Are you getting tired of this?
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Okay, so I am thinking about things with Taffy and I have a couple questions. Our progress seems to have totally stalled and he is not getting regulated. He eats LC, mainly raw and some Purina canned pro plan True Nature grain free, atm.

So, I wonder... Is Lantus the right insulin for us? Should I discuss this at his upcoming vet visit? I don't have great confidence in vet's knowledge about different insulins, so what do I need to know? For a cat that developed FD in spite of being on raw for several years prior (occasional contraband), could he have a different cause for his FD (eg. Not dry food induced)? He was always a little overweight/plump (but not obese) even on the raw, until just the few months prior to dx.

Will also discuss a dental, but he has no real indication of dental issues.

I was also wondering if I am giving injections correctly. If the insulin does not get injected just so, does it not work as well? I have been injecting Taffy on his sides, alternating sides and moving around don't to back a little. I do pull up a tiny tent, but it is not a big tent like you can get at scruff for subQs. Skin is tighter on sides. I insert needle parallel to body. Sometimes he feels the poke, sometimes not at all. I tried looking at you tube video and the are many variations on injection technique, as well as insulin drawing and handling. Most seem to use scruff to inject. Am I doing it wrong all these months?
 
I always injected Furball in her side. It sounds like you are doing fine with your injections. It looks like you are mostly following TR. You may need to try and increase the dose more often per the TR Protocol. I know it is tricky when you are thinking of increasing and then a green pops up. Maybe ask more often if you need to increase the dose. If he does have some issue like his teeth, that can keep him from getting regulated. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
You also had a fur shot on 04/15 (I sympathize :banghead:, I have had three in the past week). That drained the depot a bit so need to wait six cycles before increase. 04/16 was a nice cycle :cool:

When I decided to get serious with TR I got Gizmo's teeth cleaned and checked out and had full labs/urinalysis done and a vet check. I wanted to make sure there was no other reason or concerns before I stated. Then I got aggressive with dose increases every 6 cycles if he wasn't getting good numbers. :bighug:
 
Not to be a TOTAL copycat :cat:, but I completely agree with what Carla and Lizzie wrote.

I also give injections on the side because I read somewhere on the board that the absorption rate is better then using the scruff. If Taffy ever cries you might have hit a little muscle, I've done it to Uncle accidentally a couple of times :nailbiting::banghead:

I think getting Uncle in for a dental will end up being very helpful because he did have inflammation and that could be a contributing factor to his FD. He did end up getting an infection at one of the extraction sites because the stitches pulled loose, but is almost done with his 3 week antibiotic treatment (which he seems to have tolerated well).

As far as following the TR protocol, I know I can get a little loose about it especially if I'm feeling fatigued and not able to test as much as might be necessary.
I get migraines too and lack of sleep is a huge trigger. Honestly I don't know how I'm still standing (well, I'm sitting down now). I have a condition called Atypical Migraine Syndrome It renders me almost completely useless when it's at it's worse, it's kind of a nightmare really. We can just do the best we can with what we've got to work with.

I'm glad you are reaching out to get some feedback. This thing is SO tricky :arghh::facepalm::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
How old is your Lantus? When you get down towards the end of the pen sometimes it poops out and you get wonky numbers.
I have always injected Rusty in the scruff because his hair is so long that I found it impossible to find skin at any of the other sites. (I injected Stu on his side, just behind the shoulder.) I honestly don't think it makes that much of a difference where you inject.
 
Getting up to date blood work and asking about a dental is a good idea. But vet's can't always see what is below the gum line. Neko twice had dental where the dental specialist thought her teeth were fine on visual inspection, but issues were uncovered via dental x-ray.

Another thought is that some cats do better on slightly higher carb food. Baba-Cheri is a good example. He was a champion bouncer. Once when he was sick, all he would eat was 12% a/d. Veronica was able to up the dose because of the higher carbs, and he started flattening out and seeing more green. Today is trial day two for him.

I injected Neko in the scruff or back of shoulders for five years. It hurt her less there.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Another thought is that some cats do better on slightly higher carb food. Baba-Cheri is a good example. He was a champion bouncer. Once when he was sick, all he would eat was 12% a/d. Veronica was able to up the dose because of the higher carbs, and he started flattening out and seeing more green. Today is trial day two for him.
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Hmmm. That's an interesting thought.
 
Thanks for all of the replies. So, nobody thinks that a short acting or other insulin would be something I should try with Taffy? What reasons are other types of insulin used?
 
Taffysmama said:
Thanks for all of the replies. So, nobody thinks that a short acting or other insulin would be something I should try with Taffy? What reasons are other types of insulin used?
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*Usually* our first suggestion is to use food to manipulate the curve to allow a caregiver to get as much insulin into the cat as you can to bring down the higher numbers and prop up the lower numbers. That can be accomplished by strategically feeding mini-meals through out the cycle OR as Wendy suggested, feeding foods with a higher percentage of carbs. This thread from years ago may interest you: Feeding Lowest/Zero Carb vs Lower Carb Foods.

With proper coaching you *could* use Novolin R (Regular), a fast acting insulin at the start of a bounce, but it's more time consuming and presents a bit more of a risk so we don't suggest it unless all other avenues of treatment have failed. Another option is to switch to Levemir. It's similar to Lantus, but some cats do better with Lev than Lantus... not all. There are no guarantees. Taffy is responding well to Lantus. If I were in your shoes I'd try raising the percentage of carbs fed before I'd tackle anything more drastic.

About your shooting technique...
I only ask because there was a point when Alex's numbers were a little higher than I liked. After injecting insulin for several years, it dawned on me that my technique was off. I had gotten a little sloppy and wasn't quite getting the injection into the subcutaneous layer. Here's a short little video that talks about the layers of skin. It gives you a pretty good visual of where the needle has to end up when injecting into the subcutaneous layer: Subcutaneous Tissue Layer: Definitions & Injections. As soon as I made the correction, Alex's numbers went right back to where I wanted them.


Good luck with whatever decision you make...
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
*Usually* our first suggestion is to use food to manipulate the curve to allow a caregiver to get as much insulin into the cat as you can to bring down the higher numbers and prop up the lower numbers. That can be accomplished by strategically feeding mini-meals through out the cycle OR as Wendy suggested, feeding foods with a higher percentage of carbs. This thread from years ago may interest you: Feeding Lowest/Zero Carb vs Lower Carb Foods.

With proper coaching you *could* use Novolin R (Regular), a fast acting insulin at the start of a bounce, but it's more time consuming and presents a bit more of a risk so we don't suggest it unless all other avenues of treatment have failed. Another option is to switch to Levemir. It's similar to Lantus, but some cats do better with Lev than Lantus... not all. There are no guarantees. Taffy is responding well to Lantus. If I were in your shoes I'd try raising the percentage of carbs fed before I'd tackle anything more drastic.

About your shooting technique...
I only ask because there was a point when Alex's numbers were a little higher than I liked. After injecting insulin for several years, it dawned on me that my technique was off. I had gotten a little sloppy and wasn't quite getting the injection into the subcutaneous layer. Here's a short little video that talks about the layers of skin. It gives you a pretty good visual of where the needle has to end up when injecting into the subcutaneous layer: Subcutaneous Tissue Layer: Definitions & Injections. As soon as I made the correction, Alex's numbers went right back to where I wanted them.


Good luck with whatever decision you make...
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Thank you!!! I would prefer to try using food to work on Taffy's numbers. I will keep Levemir in mind to try, but I agree that diet manipulation would be better to try first. What are good suggestions of MC foods to use and would I only use as the snacks or every meal or experiment? Taffy does get two snacks of his regular LC raw or canned but I am not strict about the timing.

I will definitely check out both of those links, thank you. That is exactly what I was thinking about my shot technique...am i getting in the subQ layer every time? Thank you again, let's see how I do!
 
These are my go-to's for bumping up Uncle's raw food with carbs, they are both under 200 P and there is no fish or fish oil in them if those are concerns for Taffy.
Weruva Pumpkin Lickin' Chicken (pouch) is 12% carbs and 195 P
Weruva Grandma's Chicken Soup (can) 21% carbs 193 P

How's Baby doing?
 
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