Ruckus circling update

[Zorrain]

Hi,

I brought Ruckus to the regular vet Friday for a eye check up and to get Solensia. We had moved in August and he bumped his eye and had to go to the emergency. Since living at the new place he seems to be a bit more clumsy and walking close to the walls. I have noticed that he does laps around our new place. I didn’t think too much into it but it seems like he’s pacing around. on Saturday night he was doing tight circles for about six hours. So we brought him to the emergency VCA, they either thought it was high cranial pressure or Vestibular disease. He was treated with an antibiotic and Antinausea pills. He is also on gabapentin regularly I was given a higher dose. I am at a loss and I’m feeling extremely angry and upset, I just feel it is so unfair. He is on canergoline and has actually been doing good and blood glucose numbers. I talked to the internal specialist team at VCA and they had told me it take multiple SRT treatments and they run for about 10 grand per session. I heard of other cats passing away during the brain surgery or not being the same cat. On Saturday I thought he was going to pass with the circling. There’s no way that I can afford the SRT or brain surgery. I saw him trying squat to poop on the rug and I immediately brought him to the litter box and when I went to put him down he fell face first. made me feel like a huge piece of garbage and I balled my eyes out. I have not stopped crying and feeling super upset and angry since Saturday. Its such an extremely gross feeling to have him put down but I don’t want him to suffer. It’s like my mind can’t cope with it but I keep still just holding on thinking that you’ll get better but then it seems like something new arises.

questions are

has anybody heard of any studies or cheaper treatment options?

When is it time to let go? He is still eating and drinking but he is like a empty soul lately

He is also lost 2.3 pounds since august

 

[Zorrain]

 

[Zorrain]

 

[Wendy&Neko]

When Neko was first diagnosed, the only treatment was SRT or just manage with insulin. Since then, the surgery and cabergoline have been added as options, which I'm glad to see. There is also pasireotide, but it's outrageously expensive - even more so than the other options.

Cabergoline is really the only one most people can afford and doesn't require travel, but it doesn't work in all cats. It's good to see Ruckus's dose has come down, so it is helping him some.

A couple posts for you, only the second was around when I needed it for Neko, I found it quite helpful:

• Feline Pain Scale
• Making "The Decision": Help to know when and how

 

[JL and Chip]

@Zorrain How is Ruckus doing?

I can hear the heartache in your words. Though not directly related to your questions, here are a few thoughts/questions.

Did the vet check Ruckus’ eyes and blood pressure?

Vision impairment or blindness can result from high blood pressure, often secondary to kidney insufficiency. Walking the perimeter of a room is common in cats that have vision problems; I had one who went blind due to partial retinal detachments resulting from high blood pressure and my first two signs were her navigating around by clinging to walls and fully dilated pupils all the time.

Tight circling can be a sign of something neurological. One of my cats had some sort of a neuro issue (vet said probable stroke), and she did the tight circle thing nonstop. It was stressful and dramatic. Vet said if it was a stroke, they can improve and to give it 2-3 days, that that timeframe would probably reflect the best she was going to recover.

I also had a cat who had some sort of neuro or vestibular event or inner ear infection. He circled, fell over, was just totally unbalanced and discombobulated. He had a major head tilt — literally carried his head cocked at almost 90 degrees sideways. I had to isolate him in a small area to keep him safe. He ended up on antibiotics and steroids. It took months but he finally somewhat recovered, although he still has a head tilt and is a bit clumsy at times.

NONE of the above cats were diabetic, though, let alone had acro. Acro can have a lot of weird impacts on the body, even decimating at times.

I didn’t use cabergoline on my acro kitty — I’m not sure whether there can be any side effects that would explain what you’re seeing (probably not?) but might be worth researching. @FrostD @Howiesmom

I hope you get some answers and that Ruckus shows some improvement. And for what it’s worth, Please DON’T feel guilty about not being able to do SRT. It’s not a magic bullet, and some cats do better than others with it (I question whether it was the right choice for Tubby in hindsight). If only we had a crystal ball. But you’ve done quite a lot already help Ruckus and are advocating in many ways for him. Give yourself credit for that. Sometimes there’s only so much we can do.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I like that "tiny bit better" and "jumped up to snuggle" I see on the spreadsheet.

 

[Howiesmom]

I am so sorry to hear about what is going on with Ruckus. I would be so scared and upset like you so please know my heart goes out to you as you are trying to manage, care for him, and make some decisions. I loathe the day I will get to this point with Howie as he is my heart and my soul. As for the Cabergoline, I have not had any side effects with it to help explain any of the symptoms you’re seeing. I sincerely hope and pray you can find some answers. I’m also tagging @Suzanne & Darcy as she has always been a marvelous resource and a warm personality.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

I am so sorry to hear about what is going on with Ruckus. I would be so scared and upset like you so please know my heart goes out to you as you are trying to manage, care for him, and make some decisions. I loathe the day I will get to this point with Howie as he is my heart and my soul. As for the Cabergoline, I have not had any side effects with it to help explain any of the symptoms you’re seeing. I sincerely hope and pray you can find some answers. I’m also tagging @Suzanne & Darcy as she has always been a marvelous resource and a warm personality.

Hi, Tracy. You're so kind. Thanks for tagging me. Zorrain and I have been friends for a few years now, since before she joined the Board. I've been agonizing over what's been going on with Ruckus. He's always been an amazing cat with a really big magnificent personality. I'm really fond of him. I was on pins and needles the other night when he was in the ER. I had advised about having them check Blood Pressure (which the regular vet had done the day prior to the ER visit) and give a good examination of his eyes because he acted like he had vision loss (walking around the walls, getting stuck in corners and not seeming to know how to get out/back out of the place. And I asked about problems with his ears -- since ear problems can cause Horner's Syndrome. Of course, there are other causes. Zorrain and I are hoping it's just been brought on by an ear infection and that the problem will clear up. When Ruckus was little, he had quite a few ear infections.

I did read this paper from the WSAVA 2015 Congress (so it's getting a little old now), but it's about Feline Acromegaly and it does talk about neurological signs in cats with acromegaly to include: dullness, lethargy, abnormal behavior, circling, and blindness. And other things are listed as well... I will link the paper here.

https://www.vin.com/apputil/content/defaultadv1.aspx?pId=14365&id=7259428

You have lots of people here rooting for you and Ruckus, @Zorrain we all can relate to these struggles and to feeling like we aren't doing enough to help our Acro kitties or that, if only we had more money, we could do more. I think you've been feeling like that. I know that you have put your heart and soul into caring for Ruckus. Why don't you update the group on how he's doing.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

I like that "tiny bit better" and "jumped up to snuggle" I see on the spreadsheet.

Yes. He was doing a little bit better yesterday and he looked better (I saw photo of his eyes) and was not circling. I check in pretty much every day. But I wanted Zorrain to update the group and not me. How about it @Zorrain? He's been constipated, which as we all know can cause other seemingly unrelated problems. She's started Miralax... anyway... I will let Zorrain update everyone further...

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I did read this paper from the WSAVA 2015 Congress (so it's getting a little old now), but it's about Feline Acromegaly and it does talk about neurological signs in cats with acromegaly to include: dullness, lethargy, abnormal behavior, circling, and blindness.

The pituitary is close to the optic chiasm, and tumour growth can press on it. Acros can show eye symptoms. Before Neko's SRT, she was sensitive to bright light (it went away), later on she had one pupil larger than the other. Even though her tumour was considered to be "tiny". Circling is something I've seen in a couple of cats here, though neurological signs are less common that some of the other acro symptoms.

Please keep us updated Zorrain.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Ruckus' pupils were very enlarged when he went to the ER and were not responding normally to light. How are they today, Zorrain? The photo I saw looked better, I thought??

 

[JL and Chip]

I've been agonizing over what's been going on with Ruckus.

I’ve been mulling over what could be going on as well. As Wendy mentioned, the optic chiasm is near the pituitary and so I suppose acro is the most likely cause of the symptoms (when you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras and all).

But since we’re wracking our brains, and on the off chance it is unrelated to acro, has Ruckus been tested for toxoplasmosis? I believe that can also cause vision and neurological symptoms. Tagging @Bron and Sheba (GA), who I think might have experience with toxo??

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I’ve been mulling over what could be going on as well. As Wendy mentioned, the optic chiasm is near the pituitary and so I suppose acro is the most likely cause of the symptoms (when you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras and all).

But since we’re wracking our brains, and on the off chance it is unrelated to acro, has Ruckus been tested for toxoplasmosis? I believe that can also cause vision and neurological symptoms. Tagging @Bron and Sheba (GA), who I think might have experience with toxo??

One of my cats was diagnosed with having antibodies to toxoplasmosis (blood test) after she had a couple of seizures which were quite brief. They were not the usual type of seizure but she did move around and around on the bed and was incontinent of urine and was frothing at the mouth. She was put on a month of antibiotics which was clindamycin twice a day. It made quite a difference to her really. She was more active and happier and talkative and appetite better. But about 9 months later she had another one of the little seizures so the vets are not sure what is going on. It is definitely worth testing for toxoplasmosis.

 

[Zorrain]

His pupils did go down yesterday, on Saturday you couldn’t event tell he had blue eyes

 

[Zorrain]

All right I don’t even know where to start, yesterday it seemed like he was having a better day. But today has been a bit more interesting he Peed on the carpet last night and then this morning while I was on the phones. Then he pooped right behind my desk and it was like a hard rock. I have been giving him the laxatives and I don’t know if they’re working yet. I did up the dose in the laxatives And I’m just waiting for him to exploding diarrhoea. Hopefully it’ll be in the litter box, I have been periodically bringing him to the litter box and just setting him in and making sure he has his balance but then he just hops out right away and continues to be somewhere around the house. I’m scared to put him in the litter box too after the face plant the other day. I’m glad that his pupil I went down. He now just pieces around the house in a big circle I was going to try to show a video on here but I don’t know how to post it just the pictures. As for the vets he still on the same medications and I’m hoping that it will clear up whatever is going on here.

 

[Zorrain]

That was the only poop I have seen him do and was like a rock

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

View attachment 66169
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His pupils did go down yesterday, on Saturday you couldn’t event tell he had blue eyes

I know! This looks so much better than before! That’s a really good sign, Zorrain! Keep up that Veraflox!

 

[Zorrain]

Well ruckus had a great day but we are now back there.

 

[Zorrain]

He was walking around today and he was so fast he almost got outside and we’ve been cuddling him and he’s been asking to be picked up. Then as we’re getting ready for bed and to watch a movie he starts circling crazy fast. We are now off to the VCA to get a steroid for him that’ll hopefully help they said that they prescribed me 14 days.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Probably the answer is yes, but did they look inside his ears really well?

I am hoping that the steroid will help. Just watch his BG and increase insulin if necessary. I’m hoping Ruckus is having a better day today. Does he seem exhausted after these episodes? I know you said his pupils were large again last night.

 

[JL and Chip]

@Zorrain How is Ruckus doing?

 

[Zorrain]

@Zorrain How is Ruckus doing?

I’m not 100% sure, he’s on the steroids and he’s been sleeping a lot he’s still on the antibiotics as well. He has not circled since Monday but I’m on sure if it’ll happen again. He has been sleeping and cuddling with his sister a lot and I’m hoping this won’t happen again. It’s really scary and I was up all night covering his face and holding him like a baby.

 

[Zorrain]

 

[Zorrain]

 

[Chrispooky12]

View attachment 66206
View attachment 66207

They definitely love each other my 2 boys do the same thing I hope Ruckus gets better soon

 

[JL and Chip]

I’m not 100% sure, he’s on the steroids and he’s been sleeping a lot he’s still on the antibiotics as well. He has not circled since Monday but I’m on sure if it’ll happen again. He has been sleeping and cuddling with his sister a lot and I’m hoping this won’t happen again. It’s really scary and I was up all night covering his face and holding him like a baby.

Has he been eating and drinking well?
Are his pupils normal size now?
Is he able to walk around somewhat normally?

I’ve been thinking about you both a lot. I know how hard this is. Please post updates when you can.

 

[Zorrain]

Hi,

I am not to sure how to add the update so ill add a comment and if that wrong I can fix it.

Ruckus has been doing okay ish, I was waiting to get a reply back from the Solensa company for the go ahead to do the second shot for his legs. My regular vet wanted to see if the Solensa could have caused this issue with the circling, the company's Doctor did not think it was because of the injection. I went ahead and did the second shot March 03 2023 and then he had a extreme episode of circling and sniffing the air repeatedly which happen a couple days after. I am upset with myself for doing that shot again I think this drug cause the circling. I know there saying it was not because of this but why did happen in the same pattern again. We still trying to determine his quality of life which is extremely had for me because some days are great and some not so much. He is still getting stuck around the house in weird spots like corners of rooms or under the kitchen table. I have learn how to get the circling to stop by making my place completely dark and holding him like a baby in a blanket. The steroids seem to be helping him and I told my regular vet I do not want to stop them, we tired to taper the dose down and he started to circle again. He has also lost some more weight and is a extremely picky eater which he never was. We have had some liter box issues as well but we have been putting him in the liter box which seems to help. I got Cerenia for his nausea and this stuff really works but wow is it expense, 4 tablets was $32cad. Has anyone heard of cheaper types of anti nausea pills for cats?


Thanks for everyone who has time to read his update and sorry it has been so long. He had just been at the same level of health and I feel every time I get excited he is better he get worse and makes me very negative and depressed. I try to not come on here and read to much because it seems a few cats have been going to heaven and it just really hurts to think about. Ill post a few pictures of Ruckus later, he had been sun tanning lots since the weather has been getting warmer.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Thanks for the update Zorrain. I've never heard of that side effect of Solensia before. But it is pretty new.

4 tablets was $32cad. Has anyone heard of cheaper types of anti nausea pills for cats?

I actually prefer using ondansetron for nausea, but unfortunately it's really expensive in Canada too. It's dosed by weight but given 2-4 times per day. Depending on your pharmacy, the 4 mg pills can cost $4-5 each. My current cat gets 1/2 pill per dose, but she's probably lighter than Ruckus.

 

[Zorrain]

Has he been eating and drinking well?
Are his pupils normal size now?
Is he able to walk around somewhat normally?

I’ve been thinking about you both a lot. I know how hard this is. Please post updates when you can.

Ruckus struggles to eat at times and seems to only like gravy food now. His pupil size is only large when he is having a circling episode and once it is over it seems to calm down. He walks around all day and does laps but his body sound like a glow stick cracking.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Hi Zorrain! I know that I mentioned this to you before, but since the Zoetis representative said that Solensia is a large protein that is not expected to cross the blood brain barrier in the absence of “local severe inflammation like meningitis,” I still think it would be worthwhile to ask your vet about putting Ruckus on a course of antibiotics in case he may have an infection that is undiagnosed. We don’t know; he could have something like a meningitis that is causing neurological symptoms.

 

[Zorrain]

 

[Zorrain]

 

[Howiesmom]

Thanks for the update Zorrain. I've never heard of that side effect of Solensia before. But it is pretty new.


I actually prefer using ondansetron for nausea, but unfortunately it's really expensive in Canada too. It's dosed by weight but given 2-4 times per day. Depending on your pharmacy, the 4 mg pills can cost $4-5 each. My current cat gets 1/2 pill per dose, but she's probably lighter than Ruckus.

I’m getting Howie the Ondansetron from Chewy for $.20 USD per pill for their generic version. Much cheaper than Cerenia and the name brand version.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

@Howiesmom Unfortunately, prices in Canada are way higher and Chewy doesn't ship here. I'm not even quoting the name brand version prices which are even higher.

 

[Zorrain]

Ruckus has been doing poorly since my birthday on April 04, He peed 4 times outside the liter box and seems so be looking empty inside. I have been putting him in the litter box which has been solving the problem. When I put him in there he does not even seem to understand why I am putting him in there. I have reach out to Dr Amelia at VCA to see what she think and if its time to do euthanize him or to do a check up. He just seems more and more everyday like he does not know what's happening. He does this weird thing where he twitches back like he is going to hit a wall but nothing is there. Is there a way to post video's on this forum page ?

 

[Zorrain]

him after he was circling, I wrapped in a blanket to try to get them to stop, and then he fell sleep in here. seems like a light really bugs him when he’s going through these episodes.

 

[Zorrain]

him after he was circling, I wrapped in a blanket to try to get them to stop, and then he fell sleep in here. seems like a light really bugs him when he’s going through these episodes.

 

[Zorrain]

 

[Zorrain]

all the other cats were watching him, and he had his face pushed against the pillow on the couch.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

If you put a video up on someplace like your channel on Youtube, you can link it here with the media icon. It's the one two to the right of the smillies icon.

It's interesting that these episodes seem to be associated with him not liking the light. The pituitary is near the optic chiasm, and it's growth might be pushing on that. I know that before her SRT, Neko shied away from bright light. But she just had a tiny tumour. I think reaching out to the vet for an opinion is a good idea. I hope the vet gets back to you soon.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

It is always hard/sad to see our cats slowly deteriorate. Knowing when to say goodbye is so hard.

 

[Zorrain]

I brought Ruckus to the VCA emergency on Friday. He was hitting the wall and falling over multiple times. He was sniffing the air again and seemed very off. We spent the day outside on the patio and suntanning with me then he came in and started to do that. When I brought them in on Friday, the vets recommended that we euthanize him he was in such a bad condition. He has since passed, and I hope he is with all the other cats and heaven. I am extremely depressed and sad. I have never had to euthanize an animal, and I held him till the very end of his life I my arms. These images are burned into my brain, and I feel like I cannot get them out.I have never cried so much in my whole life I feel I cannot even breathe. I will post some pictures of him later on memorizing his life but I thought I’d give a quick update on this terrible unfair week.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

 

[Howiesmom]

I am so incredibly sad for your loss. These fur family members are so important in our lives and leave such a mark on our heart and soul. Big hugs to you and your family. Ruckus was a beautiful cat and he was so lucky to have you. Fly high, sweetheart.

 

[Chrispooky12]

So sorry for your loss