Ruben just came back from the vet

Status
Not open for further replies.
RubenTheCat

RubenTheCat

Member Since 2013
So much to say and don't know wherer to start
1st- They tested him when I brought him in and by there glucometer he was 253 +4.5 (approx) they took his blood and tried mine and mine read 148 +4.5 (100pt difference)
I asked about why it was so off and she said human bg metors generally run lower, since humans moniter more closely and their curve is measured a bit different than in animals.
I endend up getting the alphtrax (animal glucometer) which is what they use, to be consistant in numbers. We took my new alphtrax and theirs and calibrated them. there was about a 20point difference and they assured me that that was fine.
Here's their instruction they sent me home with

1. call Monday w update. If i'm worried at all call b/4 then.
2.they said if i'm going to check his bg they will b the highest after he eats and the lowest approximately 6 hrs after meal, those are the most important times to check
-if Ruben's bg is <100mg 30 min after he eats then only give 1/2 unit and call her. (this made me nervous, but i know nothing so...)
3. they do not reccomend doing a full curve until he is stable at home for a few weeks. when it is time she will give me strict instrutions
4. continue to check rubens urine w/ ketodiastix daily o a few times a week. I fhe has positive ketones for more than one successive reading, or has negative glucose for more than one successive reading, contact for advise. It is at that time they might reccomend a curve
5. continue to feed fancy feast, keep in mind that if he is getting a mid day meal we will not be able to accurately "curve" him, but may not matter if he is other wise doing well.

other than that said he seems good. he gained a tiny bit of weight. which is better than losing. he is 11.5
Im not positive but his drinking seems less (hardly noticed him drinking at all) but they said dont worry also I think he pee piles seem smaller (which is good) but i can't say for sure.
I asked her what is normal range for cat and she said 70-140mg/dl
overall my visit w her was def better than the last few times

Ruben seems good. I honeslty do not want to check him again until his 7:20 shot. we are both exhausted and he has been poked numerous times(me not being the greatest yet)
but if you guys reccomend it I will. but hoenstly do not want to. we need rest

Anyway, I'm just glad he's home w me and he feels the same. vet said calm down,
I guess I have to sart all over w his numbers since I have a new glucometer
Im sure the human one works good. but if Im comparing to theirs I fel better having the one they use. He's worh the extra money and apparently it should be more accurate.

can't wait to hear everyones opinion of her instructions. She is a vet and a specialist but your experiance here sometimes holds more weight.
she kept saying with cats and diabetis its different than human. I told her I want him off the juice and she said positive thinking is good, but it might not happen or it will take time. so I think overall she is complacent w just getting him regulated. ugh I want him off. but all good things in due time i guess. Ill be here all day

one last thing ruben is asking for food, should I give him a little?
 
Okay your vet is correct that the Alphatrak and a human meter do read differently that is why we have a protocol for both types of meters and it is important that we know which one you are using so me can adjust to that. There is about a 30pts difference between the two plus all meters have a +/- of 20%

The reason so many of us use human meters is because of the cost of the strips for the Alphatrak plus the only place you can get them is from your vet, so if you run low or out after office hours or on weekends/holidays etc you can't just run to Walmart like you can for a human meter. The choice is really yours on which you want to use.

Again correct he will be his highest right after eating because the food will spike him up, that is why we feed if they start going low. And yes he should be at his lowest right around +6.

Human curves are different because we eat differently. We are afterall different species. But even with feeding him a midday meal you can run a curve at home, just notate when you fed him so if he has a slight rise during the curve you know why. In fact you can look at my Autumn's spreadsheet and see exactly what a curve done at home looks like...I ran one on her yesterday. She eats after her amps, then again after her +6 and again after her pmps...you will see that she went up just a little bit for a few hours after eating and then came back down again. Now she is on a different insulin she is on Levemir so her curve will look slightly different than it would on Lantus, but it will give you an idea of how food effects the curve.

If he is hungry feed the poor boy.

And while we would love to see all the cats that show up here get off the juice it isn't always possible for them all, and the first step to that is to get him regulated first to allow his pancreas time to heal so it can kick back in.

Personally if he was mine I would go with the .5u and hold that unless he gives you a low like he did today early in the cycle again. Also remember if you are using the Alphatrak that anything below 70 is time to start worrying about hypo..just like 40 is with a human meter.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Always feed the cat! remember they need more food than normal, because they are not processing it right. so yes, if he is hungry feed him.

regarding the curve - you don't ever need to a curve, especially if you are testing frequently - all a curve consists of is testing every 1-2 hours over a 12 hour period. I never did a curve with Maui and it was never a big deal - so you don't need to focus on this.

regarding food and testing - yes food can increase the bg level, however, to not test because you fed the cat is just plain silly. testing no matter when and with our without food is all fine and again not something to stress over. - so another thing you don't need to focus on.

the human meters are fine, however if you feel more comfortable using the alphatrak, by all means use it, just add it to your spreadsheet notes and signature so people know that you are using it, as yes it does read differently than the human meter. keep in mind, that you want to make sure you always have a supply of strips available, because you can't just go to the walmart and pick up strips - you have to get them from the vet or online and if the vet is closed and you run out, then you are screwed. that and the cost for strips are more than human meter - which is why a human meter is fine to use too.

i will let others chime in on the rest....
 
Overall it sounds like a good vet visit!!

Yes the two meters are different. Thats to be expected since one is for humans and one for cats. You will find more a difference at high BG levels, however they will read almost the same at low BG levels (under 200). And its low BG levels you are worried about! Personally, bearing this in mind, I would return the alphatrak and keep the relion to save money but thats up to you!

I think most of the vets points are valid. But I have a comment around #2 above..
We recommend you test before every shot (you dont want to shoot if he is too low!) and at least once during the day. +6 is good because thats when he can be the lowest - they are correct. We call that low point the "nadir" . However cats nadir can vary so we may have you do spot checks sometimes. Or more frequently if he keeps up what he did this morning!!
However we would advise for now that if Ruben is under 200 - dont shoot at all.. wait to see what he is doing, dont feed him and contact us immediately for advice. Once you have absorbed all this you should read this sticky

Give him a rest till his PMPS now, and feed him! He has had a hard day - so have you! so go get a snooze together!!

Lastly I want some other experienced eyes to comment on dose. This morning he dropped low so needs to get a decrease. He was at 1unit so we usually say drop to 3/4unit but 1/2unit might be safer..

I will summarize the last few days for you (until we get you set up in a SS)
Jan 24
PMPS 383 1 IU
+4 135 (fed LC)
+5 194
+6 160

Jan 25
AMPS 250 1 IU
+2 130
+3 48. Went to vet
+4.5 148 (at vets. Alphatrak 253)
 
keep in mind my meter was 100 off by theres so when I took a reading and it said 48 it was more like 148
I am going to take a pmps reading and post it will be around 7 i will feed him while i wait for a reply. she was adimitt about not changing the dose unles under 100. I kinda already thought I was gonna just give slightly less than the 1unit if he was around the 150-200 mark but I dont' have the 1/2 marked ones so was just gonna push the plunger a tiny bit above the 1 unit line.
Vet said we should try to stay consistant with the doses. said testing is good but should test less and use stix more, that if the glucose comes back over 1000 then its prolly around 300 bg reading. she said based on those tests then do bg. I told her I feel more comfortable testing at 3x a day amps mid day and pmps.. she warned me about ruben's ear getting tough and said she supports what I need to do but the best thing is to keep me and him under as little stress as possible.
I can't stress enough how much of a basket case I've been.lol feeling a bit better now, but everytime b4 dose time I panic and panic bad. So don't want to kill him. vet asuured me over and over the 1unit shouldn't kill him.
I'll post reading around 7 and let me know what you think. If your not gonna be here or someone else let me know or I'll go crazy waiting.
I'm a productive happy girl almost all of the time, but thats cause no matter what goes wrong in my life I always have Ruben as my constant.
But when he is not well, EVERYTHING in my world is off.
BF is getting upset with me...lol he has a cold and said thank god he's not dying cause I wouldnt notice. I told him he's right...lol Ruben comes first.
he didn't like that answer
 
Sorry to say this but yes 1u can kill him if he hypos on it. We just had a cat hypo on the levemir isg on .25u to the point he was almost in a coma yesterday..so if the dose is too high regardless of what that dose is it can kill.

The sticks are only going to give you an average for the time that the urine has been in his body it isn't going to tell you where he is RIGHT NOW. Only blood is going to tell you that. Plus a negative reading for glucose on the sticks only means he is below the renal threshold of 250ish. Not if he is dangerously low or too low to give insulin to in the first place.

I've seen my own cat go from 300s at preshot to 20 in 6 hours and she never outwardly showed signs of hypo, you can't always tell by looking at them...some will clearly be in hypo in the 40s others like Autumn will act fine in the 20s.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Who's gonna be on here at 7-715?
Right back to panic strickin. I wont know til I test him. I almost wish his bg is high so don't have to deal w this...is that awful. why is the vet cavaliar about it?
 
No -remember the meters read the same at low numbers. so 48 is 48 (or close enough)

Go to walmart and get the 1/2 unit marked syringes. You are going to need them. I use BD ultrafine 3/10cc short but there may be other brands. Make sure they give you the right ones since they dont allow returns.

Your vet was doing so well. and now I hear this stuff.. shame... she was doing so well! :(
- 1 unit could kill him if its too much and he had a hypo! Today he was 48 at +3 with 3 hours to go until low point. He could have died today if you hadnt been testing etc.!! So thats nonsense!.
- I do agree we stay consistent with doses - at least till the dose settles anyway ;) If he goes to low or too high we may recommend a dose change. Like tonite for example.
- Ear getting tough!!? Seriously she said that???? I have never ever heard of that!! I have been poking Tiggys and Baileys ears 4+ times a day, for over a year and they aint tough yet! That also sounds like nonsense.

I will be here at 7pm. But unless you hear otherwise from an expert here, I would only shoot 0.5IU (1/2 unit) for now.

Also - relax. No need to panic! Maybe this on hypos so you know what to do, and then you are prepared and dont need to worry!!!

Wendy
 
I can't get to walmart tonight. I have this neurological thing going on and the stress is effecting my vision. Only want to drive if I have to take ruben to er
Is guessing with the syringes I have now horrible and oo risky? I dont want to have to poke him as much as I did last night. very stressfull and I am gonna use the alphtrax, so less testing is more cost effective, but dont want to jepordize his care....where is the balence?
Hard not to be stress, like I said ive been not in tip top shape myself so more than ever i've been focusing on ruben, now that i found out this, my focus on ruben went form my life is ok to its all falling apart. oh i love him. it hurts how much i love him
 
I'm sorry but I disagree with your vet on so many levels. I don't want to undermine your trust in her. I love our vet but she understands and acknowledges that my knowledge on FD far exceeds hers. And her ego is nonexistent in this.

Consider this....on this board, there are many, many of us who have been dealing with FD 24/7 for a very long time. I'd be surprised if your vet sees 20 FD patients a year and the only curves she sees, since she does not recommend home testing, are the stress-skewed ones in her office.

Her dosing makes no sense. It doesn't matter what his BG is 30 mins after he eats when it comes to dosing.

For what it's worth, here are my thoughts:
1. Take back the alpha trak. It is expensive, the strips are expensive, and your numbers don't need to match hers. I don't remember what kind of meter you got but if it is a Relion, those are good meters with inexpensive strips. There have been days when Gracie was low that I've gone through 20 strips. not usual but still....costly. Pick one meter and stick with it. If you decide to stay with the AT, that's fine....just be sure you note it in your signature block in big letters so we know.
2. Don't do a curve in her office. It is a waste of your money because you are getting real time data at home.
3. Managing numbers using urine glucose sticks is going to get you in trouble. I've had Gracie showing +3 on a glucose strip and 50 on a glucometer because it takes quite a bit of time to clear the glucose from the urine. The glucometer is "real time"....urine glucose testing is not.
4. I would reduce his dose to 0.75u tonight. He was dropping fast this morning and you got a 48. It would have been nice to recheck it....and you should any time you get an unexpected low number. But I don't think it is unusual that your meter would read 148 at the vet. Ive easily seen numbers skyrocket that fast. To be safe, I'd reduce...you can always take him back up if need be. And I wouldn't reduce to .5u. We typically reduce by .25u especially because he didn't go that low.
5. Stay on the ketone testing daily until we have some good data for him.
6. If you get a number below200 at preshot, I'd still like you to not feed, post first and see if you can get some help. We have options...like having you stall a bit until numbers rise or shooting a reduced dose. It does not mean you have to skip. If you can't get help, then yes, skip if you get a PS at or below 200....but usually an experienced member can be around to help.
If you need help with the SS, please send me a private message by clicking on the "PM" button by Gracies pic. I need some info from you to get one set up and the info doesn't need to be public as it has nothing to do with advice.
 
thank you wendy and margi, feel bad for you, I kinda clinged onto you now. Please be here around 7. I will def post. if im not here keep checking its just cause im having trouble getting blood def need help w spread sheet, I have a google account but dont know where to go once i log in there. truely a technological dinasaur.
My gut agree's with most of you on here. its so hard to know what is absolutly the right thing to do. think Im ganna follow here, just worried when I tell my vets my readings and the doses she will drop me. The place i go osvs is a leading vet hospital its not a vet. it is er and specialists only. I really dont want to test him so frequently but I will if i have to. I was hoping for a 7 pm and may be one before bed 11-12 but I am exhausted!! Litterally barely slept or ate in 5 days.form him but i will def post a pmps (b4 food)
also over analyzing feeding himm. he's still hungry, but i havent put food down so i know he'll eat at 7
is that bad or dangerous?
 
We understand...we've all been there in terms of whether to go with the vets advice or this board and just the scariness of starting out.

What time zone are you in so I can check in on you a little before 7 your time?

I don't want you to feed him the two hours prior to his shot or you could get a food influenced number. So if its more than two hours prior to his shot, give him a small bit to eat. If you are already within that two hour timeframe, don't feed.

Could you let me know for certain...is he getting any dry food at all or you giving him totally canned now? If only canned, for how long (since when?).

Thanks...don't worry...it gets easier.
 
You can pretty much guarantee if the person has over 5000 posts that they are either really really chatty or really experienced.

I wouldnt say that was me. I am ok with helping on food and testing but I leave dosing to the really experienced people like Marje, jill, Sienne and others.

if you arent sure, ask Marje ;)

Wendy
 
Samantha

Let me get your SS going here quickly and I'll put in all the numbers. I'll be here for your shot time and so try not to worry, ok? If you can test at about 6:45 EST which is his +11.75 and post, I'll let you know what you need to shoot. Practice .75u though. Here's a picture:

5e86c3d4.jpg


IF you do not feel comfortable shooting that dose, then you can shoot .5u and we'll see how he does. We can always take him back up. Remember...you hold the syringe.

And don't worry if you shoot a lower dose at PMPS and he goes high. He's probably just bouncing which they almost all do starting out. Hang in there!! We're here for you.
 
Just want to answer quick and I'll try to answer more of your questions after dinner.

what do i do if i do a 1/2 dose cause he's low and 5 hours in he's at 500
Click to expand...

We will do our best to try to convince you that Lantus is not supposed to be dosed that way. Dosage is not based on the preshot test numbers. But the simple answer to your "what if" question is -
You just live with the 500 until it's time for his next shot. Once you've given a shot, you just deal with what follows. If the numbers go low, you use high carbs to boost them up. If they go high, there's nothing to do but wait. You can't give a "booster shot" in the middle of the cycle. You just log the numbers and use the data to figure out "why".

Carl
 
Just to be clear.. Marje and I are saying to give 3/4 unit tonite (or as close as you can but go on the low end if you need to) UNLESS he is under 200 in which case - you do not shoot, you do not feed, and you post here.

Later - if he is over 500 at +5 you ignore it and you go to sleep. You do not worry. you do not panic. he will be fine. He could be bouncing from the low today (we will explain more on that later) in which case he will come down. Or his dose may be too low. But we need to be consistent for a couple of days to be sure so we keep the same 3/4 unit dose unless we say otherwise.

Tomorrow morning you get up and test. Same thing
- If under 200 do not shoot, do not feed, post here
- If over 200 give 3/4 unit or as close as you can get.

relax.. :-D
Wendy
 
388 PMPS
PLEASE DONT MAKE ME TEST AGAIN IN AN HOUR. i JUST HAD TO SICK THE SHITE OUT HIM. WE BOTH NEED A REST. iM SHAKING HE WAS GROWILING(NEVER DOES THAT AT ME) BUT I WILL IF I MUST. hE WAS VERY UNHAPPY UGH THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER.
FIGHTING W BF NOW HE DONT GET IT
 
SO IM ASSUMING THE 3/4 BASED ON THIS READING OR IS IT THE 1UNIT.
CAN NOT THANK YOU ALL ENOUGH, THOSE WORDS OF BREATH AND RELAX MEAN EVERYTHING TO ME. I VOW TO RETURN THE FAVOR ONE DAY TO THIS FORUM
 
Samantha

It's ok. Calm down, ok? We're here for you. Please give him .75u. You do not need to test in an hour, ok? We'll let him go a bit.

It's going to take a little time for you all to get used to this but Ruben will. I promise. But you must be calm or you are going to make it worse for him. He trusts you and if you are upset, he will know. Be sure you talk to him, love on him, rub his ears softly before you poke. Sing to him....whatever to keep yourself calm. Then give him a treat and lots of love when you are done. Be sure you put the Neosporin ointment with pain relief on his ears every single time....you might have to wipe it off before you poke again, but that's ok.

Ok...give him his shot and his food and then come back and let us know you are ok. I'm almost done with his SS.
 
Its ok.. he knows you are upset and panicking and is picking up on it. . For now just give him love and treats and scritches or brushies (whatever he loves) and breath calmly and tell him how much you care.

Marje she has a google docs account already set up fyi
 
Never mind.. I see the spreadsheet yay! good job everyone.

Sam - here is a few things to calm you down

1. message from Ruben http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33671

2. Deep breathing exercises..

Relaxation Breathing

Begin by sitting in a comfortable chair with good back support, or lying down. The key thing is to have your body pretty much straight between hips and shoulders so your lungs have room.

Now, breathe out completely. That way there will be room for a full breath in. If you start with half filled lungs, taking a deep breath in won't feel very large.

Pause.

Slowly, take a deep breath.

Pause.

Slowly, exhale.

Repeat, and establish a pattern of slow, deep breathing. Give yourself a good 20 minutes (turn off the phone, close the door) to get into this process. If done at bedtime, you may drift into sleep. Cuddle Ruben if he wants to.

By slowing and deepening your breathing, you often cause the heart rate to slow and relax, muscle tightness to ease away, and blood pressure to decrease.
Click to expand...
 
oh thank you guys, you are now my life coach..lol but i really am freaking out. and this is trying not to, too..lol
on other news my other cat now has violent diarrhea and is vomiting, she wont eat. she DOES NOT travel, actually have a travel vet that comes just for her she so bad.
2 quesions, signs of dehydration?
she wont eat so not sure if shell drink but should i try chix broth? oh my poor kitties
It would be ideal if i didnt have to test again til tomorrow, but got a feeling you guys wont reccomend that, but honestlyhis ears are all scabbed up. i only had neosporin w/o pain healing gonna get that tomorrww too along with the syringes
 
"Scabbed up"? It sounds like you maybe arent stemming the blood properly... while the meter is counting down, press and hold finger on the spot you stuck for a good 15 seconds afterwards. Press with fingers on both sides of the ear. You can use a cotton ball or piece of tissue . This will prevent scabbing and bruising.

Yes try a little chicken broth (no onions in it right?) on both of them.. wont do them any harm. But call your vet tomorrow and get the same pills for her too.. since they worked on Ruben they might on her too. Meanwhile clean and replace all the litter in both litter trays and the food and water bowls in case its an infection or something.

I will leave it to marje but based on his numbers last night you might be able to do a +3 or +4 tonite only.. but I will let her comment on that.

Signs of dehydration:
Gently pull up the skin at the scruff of the neck then let it go. If it s l o w l y goes back to normal, the cat is very dehydrated. It should snap back.
Another way to tell: Lift the lip and press firmly on the gums then release. If it turns pink quickly, the cat is doing well. If it stays whitish or the gum feels vey tacky, the cat is dehydrated. This method is better for less severe dehydration.
 
Hi Samantha,

Read this later when you have time, not in the middle of chaos, okay?

So much to say and don't know wherer to start
1st- They tested him when I brought him in and by there glucometer he was 253 +4.5 (approx) they took his blood and tried mine and mine read 148 +4.5 (100pt difference)
I asked about why it was so off and she said human bg metors generally run lower, since humans moniter more closely and their curve is measured a bit different than in animals.
Click to expand...

Question - did they use the same drops of blood for both meters? If not, then it isn't a valid comparison. Normally, there is about a 20-30 point difference between an AT and a human meter, which others have explained why we work that into our protocols. We usually assume that the AT will read 30 points higher. That's why we ask you to add notes to your signature and your SS that say "Alpha Track Meter". And like Mel said, when you see "70", that's low enough and you would use food or a few drops of karo to boost a number below 70 back up if you are going to be using an AT meter.

That your meter tested 100 below theirs is surprising to me frankly. 30 or 40 points, I'd buy.

2.they said if i'm going to check his bg they will b the highest after he eats and the lowest approximately 6 hrs after meal, those are the most important times to check
-if Ruben's bg is <100mg 30 min after he eats then only give 1/2 unit and call her. (this made me nervous, but i know nothing so...)
Click to expand...
OK, it sounds to me like they are suggesting that you feed him, wait half an hour, and give insulin only if his BG is over 100? And then to only shoot half his normal dose? Well, first off, I don't think it is very likely at this point in his treatment that this will happen. 30 minutes after eating is right about the time that his food should be kicking in and raising his BG levels. I'd be surprised if he was under 100 at that point in time. Maybe in the future, when he's almost off the juice you might see that. He might stay in green numbers all day long by then. But telling you to not test until 30 minutes AFTER he eats doesn't make sense to me. If you wait until then to give a shot, it's going to make the whole cycle "off" compared to what we're used to. His onset would happen later, his nadir would most likely too.

We follow the "test/feed/shoot" sequence for the most part. You test before feeding, so the BG number isn't influenced by food, then you let him eat and give the shot while he's eating or right after he's done. But the decision as to whether you're going to give a shot, or not, is based on the pre-food test, not a test taken once the food has started to boost his numbers upward. I don't understand the vet's logic.
Actually, our way seems to me to be safer. You know how people have told you that if you see a number under 200, to stall without feeding, test again in a few minutes, and see if his number is coming up to 200 or more on it's own? Well, if you do it "their way", you're just about guaranteed to see a number over 100, and you might be giving insulin when "our way" would have you not give a shot.

The other "flaw" in their method is that they have you adjusting the dose on a shot by shot basis, potentially. In the morning, you might be shooting a 1/2 dose, and at night a full dose. If the doses aren't consistent, the numbers are going to be all out of whack and you'll be constantly trying to figure out why.

3. they do not reccomend doing a full curve until he is stable at home for a few weeks. when it is time she will give me strict instrutions
Click to expand...

Someone else has already pointed this out - you don't HAVE TO do a full curve at all. You can whenever you choose to of course. But the only "strict instructions" are that you test every two hours from AMPS to PMPS. That's it. You don't alter the feeding amounts or times. You just test every two hours, and make notes of what he ate and when like you'd do normally. If you change any other part of his routine, then the curve isn't based on his normal day, so the results won't do much for you.
Really, four tests a day, unless you happen to see "odd" numbers, are sufficient. At the beginning, we ask people to get a +2 or a +3 or a +11.... the reason for that is because we're trying to see what's going on during a cycle. The "early" cycle tests are primarily for safety's sake. As you've seen, sometimes the numbers take a dive early in the cycle. We like for you to know that, so that if it happens, you can head off a really low number in the middle of the cycle before it happens. If you see an early number like a 48, or any number that is drastically lower than the AMPS reading, you can be proactive and intervene. If you saw that 48 at +6 or +7, you would still react, but it wouldn't be as much of a crisis.
The +11 number is a good idea because then when you get the +12, you can tell if he's rising, falling, or just staying steady. It's just a "good to know" number.

But if you test before the AM and PM shots, and you can get a test during the AM cycle (preferably near the middle), and then get a test just before bedtime, on an average day, that's enough. New members test more often for a couple of reasons. One, the more data you can collect, the better you can see how the cat is reacting to the insulin. The other reason is for peace of mind. Knowledge is a powerful thing, and the more you know concerning what his BG is, the more confident you are. When you see low numbers, and you react, and you do that a few times, then you know you will be able to do it on those rare occasions that nobody is online to help you out. Yes, the past few days have been very stressful for you for sure. But you should have gained a good deal of self-confidence from all of this already, right? A month from now, when you happen to be online late at night and a brand new member posts a "911" on the Health board, it'll be you who is dishing out the "calm" and helping them through their emergency.

keep in mind my meter was 100 off by theres so when I took a reading and it said 48 it was more like 148
Click to expand...

Absolutely forget thinking that way! Your meter was 100 points lower than theirs today, on one test, and for whatever reasons. BUT, I don't care if you're using a Relion meter, an Alpha Track meter, or a freaking Parking Meter..... when you see a 48, it's a 48, and you react to it like it's LOW. Don't fall into the trap of "well, it says this, but it really means THAT". Don't go there. Nothing good comes from 2nd guessing a low reading.

BF is getting upset with me...lol he has a cold and said thank god he's not dying cause I wouldnt notice. I told him he's right...lol Ruben comes first.
he didn't like that answer
Click to expand...

BF is just going to have to learn to love it. Tell him that the bright side is that if he's ever diagnosed as diabetic, you've got him covered. But that if he's not supportive, you'll be poking his ear instead of his fingertip. ;-)

Carl
 
Samantha

You did a great job shooting tonight.

Here is what I do for Gracie's ears and my vet has never been able to believe we test as much as we do. I bought a pack of baby washcloths. Before I test, I wet one in cool water. As soon as I finish the poke, I hold the cool cloth to her ear where I poked and I hold it for several seconds and press on the spot where I poked. I then put the Neosporin Ointment with pain relief on her ear. She has never had bruises or scabs. I switch ears for every test...we keep a little lined sheet and label it in columns "R, L, R, L" and as we test, we mark it so we know which ear to do the next time. As you get better and his ears bleed more freely, you can use a smaller gauge lancet like a 30g but starting out, it's usually best to use about a 28g.

Here is a post I did on Testing and Shooting Tips which might help you.

As you can see from last night, Ruben can clear a bounce quickly. Will he tonight? I don't know. So you will need to test him tonight. I'd suggest no later than a +4 test. Then, hopefully, you can both go to bed. But testing puts you in control of his numbers and keeps him safe.

You might want to think about posting in the Lantus ISG tomorrow where there are alot more people to keep eyes on you and that frees up the people who help out so much in Health, like Wendy and Carl, to also help others. Most of us in the Lantus forum practice the Tight Regulation Protocol but it is not required.

The TR protocol is the only protocol based on scientific research and was developed based upon the premise that a cat's pancreas may be able to heal and return to producing insulin if the cat's BG is kept in a normal range, ie, 50-120. Caregivers following this protocol adjust insulin doses following the protocol guidelines, to aim for that range. Basic information on the TR is here TR Protocol. If you want to follow the TR protocol, we strongly encourage you to post daily in the Lantus TR insulin support forum for a while to learn more about how it all works.

Requisites for following a TR protocol with Lantus or Levemir include:
• Kitty should be monitored closely the first three days when starting Lantus or Levemir.
• It will be necessary to test kitty's blood glucose levels multiple times per day.
• Learn the signs of and how to treat HYPOGLYCEMIA and prepare a HYPO TOOLBOX.
• Test regularly for ketones and know about DIABETIC KETOACIDOSIS (DKA).
• Use U-100 3/10cc syringes with half units marked on the barrel for fine dosing.
• Feed a high quality low carb canned or raw food diet.
• Feed small meals throughout the day. Some kitties adapt well to free feeding.

The Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) protocol has caregivers start with an initial dose based upon the BG at diagnosis and whether kitty has been transitioned to a wet low carb diet, hold that dose for a week or two while testing for ketones regularly, being consistent with food and shooting every 12 hours. Once a week a curve is done (test every 2 hours for one cycle) to check for the lowest point. the low number in that curve determines any dose change for the following week. Basic information on the SLGS protocol is here SLGS.
 
they did use the same blood for the two tests
eitherway, im using the alph trax, already bought it and it will be conguant with the vets
i feel safe with you guys and am following your protocol and keeping my vets info in mind.
She does want me to stay consistant and not change form dose to dose (i missed communicated) but i kept saying what if he's low so she said I could decrease unit only if i feel it, but really wants me to keep him in 1unit in the am and one in thepm and to do more keto tests and bg less....I agree with you guys and will being doing more bg tests than that
other news poor other kitty puking and diarrhea, unfortuanly w/ her i have to wait it out. she does NOT travel. Im assuming its the food change
on wet for 2 days. they were both all dry. I knew the switched would cause diarrhea but the vomiting..ugh
started her on the metronozonal, i check ed with the vet earlier even before the vomiting.
ugh there both falling apart and takingme with them.
gonna go and try to breath but i will be here im sure every five minutes
thank you carl
 
You're very welcome!

You might want to think about posting in the Lantus ISG tomorrow where there are alot more people to keep eyes on you and that frees up the people who help out so much in Health, like Wendy and Carl, to also help others. Most of us in the Lantus forum practice the Tight Regulation Protocol but it is not required.
Click to expand...

That's a great idea, Marje.

Samantha,
Everyone posting in the Tight Regulation forum (except for the occasional visitor like me) uses either Lantus or Levemir, and follow one protocol or the other. It's also the busiest forum on the board, and people are literally on there 24/7. I don't mind helping you or anyone on Health that I can help. But as far as Lantus specific info and help, the TR board is the best place to post. But if I can help, don't hesitate to ask.

I've never even seen Lantus, nevermind used it. My cat, Bob, was on PZI insulin. While I've read all the stickies, and the amazing people who populate the Lantus forum have been patient and increbible "tutors" and answered countless questions I've asked them (sometimes more than once or twice, lol), I have no direct first-hand experience with the insulin itself.

Carl
 
Hi. I'm no expert, not even close, but I DO know what you're going through. Getting him regulated to allow his pancreas to heal is priority one. Baby steps. Regarding the test strips--it is imperative to keep a good supply of them, at all times. Believe it or not (I am did not/would not believe this at the beginning), Ruben will get used to testing :) I read the stickys over & over, and still do. You can get the 1/2 unit needles from the link at top (American Diabetes Wholesale)--very good prices and this website gets a portion of the sales towards it. I buy my lancets there as well. What size gauge needles and lancets are you using currently? I only ask this because it may make a difference when first learning to draw blood. I started with the 28 gauge lancets as they are a little thicker, but now use the 31 gauge lancets and usually have no problem getting a drop of blood--though I didn't "master" the blood testing until about two weeks after testing.The higher the number, the thinner the needle (i.e., 31 gauge lancets are thinner than 28 gauge lancets). When drawing blood from the ear, I keep pressure on the ear (ear between two fingers) for about 20 seconds after blood is drawn (and tested) then apply triple antibiotic w/pain relief after every poke. I also test from hind paw pads; they usually take a little longer to bleed but it gives the ears a break. And a warm rice sock helps a bit--has anyone told you about that? A thicker needle should make him bleed easier. With regard to your "I can't stress enough how much of a basket case I've been.lol feeling a bit better now, but everytime b4 dose time I panic and panic bad. So don't want to kill him. vet asuured me over and over the 1unit shouldn't kill him....But when he is not well, EVERYTHING in my world is off....BF is getting upset with me..."I have been a total, total looney-bin, basket case over Gobbles' being diabetic and everything that goes with it. I was yesterday for sure--because his BG levels were very goodmost of the day and I am so used to seeing his levels high, that I thought he was going hypo (he was about 64-200)-I swear I'm amazed I still have hair in my head. But it does get better--however, I still find myself forgetting that from time to time :) Please don't panic...I still panic, well, kind of. There is always an Expert here on board for you--ask, ask, ask away--they will help you and be here for you. Gobbles is my world as well. He's the "favored" cat. My husband said my moods change with Gobbles' glucose levels. As for the BF, he'll have to get over it...(that's just my opinion but then again, Gobbles rules) Gobbles as well as myself has made so much progress since I've been here. I read that you have a neuro problem/vision problem--I've got some physical/medical limitations as well--I can relate with you. The stress has been affecting my back problems...my hair started thinning and my face breaks out...well, someone on the boards told me yesterday to basically not let all this take over my life...and I put that mindset into place just recently..the man that told me this is exactly right. And I do love, love, love, cherish, cherish, cherish Gobbles as I can tell you do your Ruben. Gobbles has been on the low end before, and then goes over 500...but it doesn't freak me out as much now (the high numbers)...sometimes with Gobbles at least, those high numbers are most probably partially due to times he eats...and oh, my--the bouncing!...but he is still being regulated...ECID--have you heard that yet..Every Cat Is Different--so very true! I will be on board the rest of the evening. Take a deep breath. You are in very good hands here. And give Ruben a smooch from Gobbles--obviously his Mommy really loves and cares for him.
 
bowhuntress-thank you
this site is all my good karma

the spreadsheets are a bit confusing and overwhelming but will get used to it

i will be on the lantus tr forum tomorrow but staying here for tonight

i will try to test at +4 (vision is funky right now so not sure i need to relax or im gonna stroke out-lol i will post in my spread sheet (thanks marje)

So in the am when i do his amps should i follow the same kinda guidelines?

if its 200 or under post and wait?

and if its high like pmps do .75 units?

i know i say it over and over but wow how unbelieavably moved i am by all your kindness and understanding and non judgement

im actually happy i have this neurological disorder going on ( they think complex or baisler migraines- but a severe case) b/c i am out of work and able to stay home with ruben for 2 weeks

going to keep checking here but need to lay down and not think diabetis or stroke for a while. I hope i don fall asleep - im gonna set alarm for 11pm (+4)

worried about my female now too
 

Attachments

  • scans 003.jpg
    scans 003.jpg
    78.1 KB · Views: 1,074
So in the am when i do his amps should i follow the same kinda guidelines?

if its 200 or under post and wait?

and if its high like pmps do .75 units?
Click to expand...

Yes, that sounds like a perfect plan. And post it (along with any questions) in the Lantus Tight Regulation forum. There's always someone on board there in the early morning. Bring coffee and they'll love you! :lol:

Carl
 
RubenTheCat said:
bowhuntress-thank you...i will be on the lantus tr forum tomorrow but staying here for tonight...i will try to test at +4 (vision is funky right now so not sure i need to relax or im gonna stroke out-lol i will post in my spread sheet (thanks marje)So in the am when i do his amps should i follow the same kinda guidelines?if its 200 or under post and wait? and if its high like pmps do .75 units?...im actually happy i have this neurological disorder going on ( they think complex or baisler migraines- but a severe case) b/c i am out of work and able to stay home with ruben for 2 weeks...going to keep checking here but need to lay down and not think diabetis or stroke for a while. I hope i don fall asleep - im gonna set alarm for 11pm (+4)worried about my female now too
Click to expand...
you're welcome! Glad you to hear that tomorrow you're coming over to "our house", LantusLand!!! With regard to testing/shooting & vision--as for me, I know when I first wake up in the morning and sometimes in the evenings before I go to bed, my vision isn't the best...And it is imperative that you can see straight and what you're doing when you test, when you draw the insulin into the needle and when you shoot...a few times I did not allow my eyes to "wake up" in the morning and I either ending up poking Gobbles several times trying to get blood..getting blood and not getting it on the test strip correctly, thence had to test again...or couldn't get the insulin dose right (and kept throwing needles w/insulin in them, out, again and again, and paranoid when I finally did get the dose right that I may have way too much in the needle...and wondering if I did a "fur shot" (did I, didn't I, what if I did, what if I didn't...!!!!) So just be super sure your vision is good before you test, draw and shoot (even if its a few minutes late)...as for "following guidelines...200 and under"-I can't answer any of that but there are experts here who can and I'm sure they will answer your questions. Kudos to you for considering your neuro problem/unemployment as a blessing--that's a good sign that "the cup is always half full" and keep the half-full mindset with Ruben (and your other kitty) and feline diabetes. I hope you had sweet dreams and keep up the awesome work! You're doing a heck of a good job--hang in there!
 
RubentheCat said:
So in the am when i do his amps should i follow the same kinda guidelines?
if its 200 or under post and wait?
and if its high like pmps do .75 units?
Click to expand...

In the Lantus ISG, our post and ask for help number is 150. But the first time, you can use 200 if you like. I'll ask two of our early morning, very experienced members to look for you, ok? Here's how you want to post it (just an example):

1/26 Ruben NEW +12 178 Stalling Help Pls

OK? I'll check back in around your +4.
 
143 +4 (alpha trax)
feel good about that? <is that a correct feeling?
gonna be hear for about an hour he off to bed and to test again in the am
(getting blood is getting harder not easier. he jumped think i ripped his ear - i picked my finger)
anyone do paw tests? feel like his ears need a res looked under a flashlight and felt awful
so many bloody holes?
i go through like everyime? is that common or am i a bucher?
wish it was me who had this instead
 
Samantha

That's a big drop for early on..I was afraid he would do that but wanted to give you all a break.

Can you feed him a couple good tsp of LC food? And retest in no more than an hour but 30 mins after he eats would be better. He still has a long time to go...you might be up testing tonight.
 
Look on the bright side. He may be heading into remission.. touch wood anti jinx. These are great numbers.

Did he growl at you this time?
 
You arent alone. Problems are very common when you start off... but honestly it does get easier. Also the ears almost need to learn to bleed.

The bruising will heal and you WILL get better at this. The flashlight could be handy to see the sweet spot.

Rememebr:
- ear needs to be nice and warm. Dont rush this stage. I like to use massage because my guys like ear rubs but many people here use rice in a sock that they warm in a microwave or a warm wet washcloth..
- go in at a 45 degree angle with the lancet (or use lancing device if you dont have luck with the lancet). Some people do two little pricks side by side to get enough blood.
- hold a small hard thing under the ear to press against - pill bottle, plastic bottle lid , flashlight, anything.
- hold the ear firmly just beow the wound to help "dam" the blood so it wells up
- press and hold the wound afterward for a good 15-20 seconds
- use neosporin to finish
- important - give him a treat whether you are successful or not!!!

Maybe watch this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8 and review these tips. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=85113

And maybe.. ask your bouyfriend to watch

Wendy
 
Have some confidence! You CAN do this. You will control his disease and make him healthy. Practice makes perfect. If at first you don't succeed ... I am sure in life you have conquered many challenges, this is just a minor one

Before you know it he will be bleeding like a human in vampire den. (I would have used a pig analogy but I know you are a vegan) lol sic.

You have some time now, so watch the video and read the tips above. And maybe google "fdmb blood testing tips"
Wendy
 
he just ate a few bites but he did eat a little i'd say like 1 tsp
i'm blurry and alone. sigh. need to sleep, when I get to this point speech will go. fingers crossed for both of us?
should i try paw next time? that last ear one was bad. for both of us
 
I don't know about testing on the pas. Some do it. But we need you to get a test now. It's been longer than I would have liked for how fast he was dropping.
 
RubenTheCat said:
should i try paw next time? that last ear one was bad. for both of us
Click to expand...
I test on Gobbles' paw moderately, sometimes not for a day or two, sometimes the entire day if his ear had a lot of testing the day before, If you're going to try, I would suggest warming up a washcloth--sit on the floor and hold him in your lap, facing you (his back would be on your knees). Put the washcloth on one of the back paw pads for about 20-30 seconds. While holding his foot, prick one of the back paw pads....give it a chance to bleed...."milk" if helps. If you still get little or no blood, take another lancet and prick close to the first hole you made. Once you get blood squeeze the paw pad and grab your glucometer and strip (leave more than one strip out each time you test in cast you don't get enough blood on the first test and need to insert another strip. When finished, put pressure on the paw pad and ointment on it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top