Roo intro

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Tracy & Roo

Tracy & Roo

Member Since 2014
Roo is an 8 yr old neutered, male, domestic shorthair. He weighs 13 pounds. His world has been turned upside down. Recently moved to Missouri (8 hour car ride) and settling into smaller place. Lots to see and watch (birds, squirrels, bunnies) and a deck to venture out on. All was good until he got stung by a wasp. No complications from that, swollen paw for a day and then fine. About a week later, started being mopey, not wanting to play at all or get in our favorite cat tree. Took him in and while waiting for the results, Roo decided to not eat or drink. I called vet first thing in morning to let them know and I didn't receive a call back until late afternoon informing me that it was crucial that I get him to eat and that CBC showed BG through the roof. Needless to say, I went to a different vet. Different vet ran the fructosamine test. Results were still high but nothing compared to the initial CBC (note too that on initial CBC, this office's protocol was to scruff and pin the patient to the table). Purchased an Alphatrak2 monitor and did morning readings for a couple of weeks. A few days would be over 300 and then for a day be below 300. He started having diarrhea, getting lethargic again and not wanting to eat or drink, put a call in to vet and she got us in ASAP. Ran a new CBC and everything was great except BG (not nearly as high as initial test but still high). I could've brought him home but had him stay overnight for hydration and the start on 1 unit of Lantus insulin injections. This is day 3, he seems more of himself but still not quite there (no increase in activity or appetite). The hardest thing I'm having with him is eating. He's always been free-fed dry food up to this point. He tends to be a snacker and doesn't really eat a "meal" in one sitting. Been trying to adjust that to a morning and evening meal with not much snacking in between. He'll like something when I first open it but then wants nothing to do with it after it's been in the frig. Tuna is our staple of choice if he won't eat anything else. I did switch his dry food prior to starting injections to Fromm, Gamebird recipe. He seems to really like it and I've been limiting how much of this he eats as it contains no grain but does have potatoes. Tried Origins (no grain, no potatoes) but he wasn't having it. I've tried parmesan cheese and the vet was giving him FortiFlora but today he wants nothing to do with it. The vet doesn't want me to limit his food too much but I need him hungry when it's time for his shot. Syringe feeding is out. They did this while he stayed at vet and when I attempted last night, he got extremely nasty with me. Note: He does seem more himself tonight, been getting lots of cuddles and more alert. Another thing I believe I misread was that I thought he was seeking out places to be cool (very partial to the sliding glass door, there is a vent there) but the other day we had things opened and he seemed to be more comfortable, out in the open and not tucked away. So I now believe he was seeking out warmth instead. Since starting the insulin, I haven't seen this behavior at all. Any advise/helpful hints/reminders to be patient and not "freak out" and hover over him are all greatly appreciated.
 

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Welcome to FDMB,

I know you said he was free feeding dry and you switched it to fromm game bird recipe. I tried searching for it and was not able to find a canned version of it. Are you feeding the dry version? If so the carb content is really high, according to their website its 28.63% carbs. We generally stick to 10% or less. I know my Hidey does better between 0%-4%. Poor Roo though, that is a lot of change in a short period which can also effect BG and attitude.

Here is a food chart of what is recommended I know a lot on here feed fancy feast or friskies:
http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

Also, it would be a good idea to start a spread sheet and attach it to your signature line. It helps us see where the jumps are. Here is info on that.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207&start=0

Also in your signature line it is best to include what insulin you are using, and meter type :)

Also this cheers you up :)
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33671

Hope some of this helps.
 
Lantus effects build up over 5 to 7 days on the initial dose. Give it another 2 days to see how Roo does, unless there have been diagnosed or home tested ketones. Ketones are a by-product of fat breakdown for calories. Too many ketones may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal and expensive to treat complication of diabetes.

With home testing, and tests between +5 to +7 hours after the shot (probable nadir, or lowest glucose) you might check out the Tight Regulation protocol based on the research of Roomp and Rand and see how doses may be adjusted.
 
Thanks for the info.... I did read the "message from your cat" and it did help some. I know he sleeps a lot (just more apparent since we are in a smaller place, went from 4 bedroom, 2-1/2 bath house to a 2 bed, one bath condo). I have to say he's been much more himself. In fact, this morning his curious nature was peaked and was checking out a bug on the deck and it apparently sprayed him with some kind of stink spray (was not happy about that). Momma took care of. ;-) He hadn't been doing any of this and to wake up with him in my face purring is the most comforting thing of all.

The vets here seem to like to really push the prescription food (Purina Farms is located where we are) but I will say our current vet is also about what we can get him to eat. I've been doing A LOT of reading about feeding and the pet store I went to (Animal Crackers) has healthier options than most. I tried giving him goat's milk, that was a no. Raw, thawed, frozen nuggets (which I thought was a good way to go) but, again, no. I know to avoid grain, gluten and potatoes if at all possible. I am feeding Roo dry but am limiting to about a 1/4 cup a day with canned/tuna the rest of the time. Mostly because he's been accustomed to strictly dry. I always have water dripping for him in the bathroom and a bowl of water next to food (that is if he hasn't decided to knock it over). I've always been so reluctant to leave the canned food out for very long. But I did leave it out longer last night and he did go back for more. I picked it up when we went to bed (11:30-ish) and just left a little of the dry. He actually hadn't eaten much of it overnight/early morning.

Vet doesn't want me to do any testing (unless I suspect BG is low) until about a week so that we can get the curve. I wondered about testing in the time frame you mentioned, just to see for myself (he currently is getting his injection at 5:00pm). He wouldn't pee at the vet and I can't get a clean sample since he will ONLY use his clumping litter. I've tried putting stick in "pee patty" and from what I can tell (after wiping litter off) looks like a light pink, which means some traces. I did see on Amazon this brand called Kit4Kat and I'm thinking of ordering some. Resembles sand but won't absorb the urine. Roo just might use this as that's pretty close to the litter we use.

Once we get regulated, I will do the spreadsheet. Thanks for the help and advice.
 
For safety's sake, I really encourage you to home test! Using a human glucometer with pet specific reference numbers will help ensure he doesn't go too low because you'll be able to spot it and intervene to help him. You don't want to find him in seizures and need emergency care. Ask the vet if he or she would give a baby insulin without knowing first if it were safe. Exactly why we test. And its your cat, not the vets, so you decide if you want to home test.
 
Well, if you notice in my signature line, I do have a tester and we had been testing prior to starting injections. I haven't felt completely right about not testing and have periodically done my own (still over 300). I just didn't know for sure exactly when to test after giving injection and I see that you stated 5 to 7 hours after to test and I will do that.....

Is it a good idea to check prior to giving injection? Especially if we're trying to implement diet change?
 
YES! Big YES to testing before injection It is definetly good to test during the day to get an idea how the insullin is working but if you dont test prior to injection you could send him into hypo and hypo can kill. I know what you mean about vets pushing prescription foods but you have to use your better judgement as well. Most of the so called prescription diets for diabetes are still high in carbs and are not intended (in my opinion) for cats hoping to go into remission. My vet did the same thing. Tried to put Hidey on prescription foods and told me not to worry about home testing. If I didnt home test I could of killed Hidey. There were a few days were his number just dropped out of no where and if I would have given him a shot.....I dont even want to think about it. Luckily my cats have always gotten both dry AND canned so I knew they would eat the canned, but they took it hard when I took it away. Heck the only reason I was able to get them completely off it is because Hidey had two teeth removed and eating dry could ripe his sutures so dry just WASN'T an option. If your going to feed dry most here recommend EVO cat & kitten formula, Young again zero carb, or Stellas freeze dried. I tried the EVO and my cats didnt do good on it, I switched them to Young again and they loved it. It is pricier but if you add in the fact they'll eat less and also less vet bills I think its worth it lol. I still have tons if you would like me to send you a sample, or you can email the company and theyll send you info and a sample.
 
Yes!!!! That would be wonderful!!! I was reading about the Young Again and was intrigued. Wish I could get it local. You're right about the price but, considering what we've already put in and he is our furbaby, there really isn't a limit. Roo had several back teeth removed a few years back and that was part of the reasoning behind keeping him on crunchy. I think we may have a winner on the canned!!! flip_cat Hounds & Gatos salmon flavor. Lapped it up for lunch. He's such a snacker, this morning he had some and at some point in the morning finished what I gave him. But when I saw that he had finished it, I offered about another 1/4 can for lunch and he ate it all!!!! From what I can tell from the chart link you gave, this looks to be a pretty good one (low carb but still getting the calories). It appears to me that today he hasn't eaten much dry (maybe he'll ween himself off)

Note on the freeze dried, we tried that as well..... that was a "oh, hell no!" :-Q
 
Well, it's been a while but unfortunately, Roo's numbers have jumped back up to 400's. Back in July we got him stabilized and off insulin. His numbers were so good (tested every month) With the new year we were bad, and wasn't testing like we should. I started noticing more peeing, more hungry and some hiding. (no weight loss - 16lbs) He still wants to play and be his sweet self. Blood work was all good except for BG. Vet wants us to continue to use the Lantus that we got last year (expires in Oct, we've kept it refrigerated). I know there's been some concern of effectiveness after that long, what do you think? She wants us giving 1/2 unit dose, once a day. Food wise he's on Orijen Cat & Kitten (about 1/2 cup a day) and one can of BFF Bonita (his fav, never turns his nose for it), split up - 1/2 in morning, 1/2 in evening). Before, we gave him his shot in the evening but with both of us working now, I feel the morning will be best and that way the feeding routine doesn't change (just that he won't have any food to snack on overnight). I'm just looking for reassurance and suggestions. I thought of maybe offering full can at each meal and maybe just a bit of dry. The weather is getting warmer and mommy isn't home all day anymore and I'm wondering if this could be playing a part. If you notice, he wasn't on insulin for long last year.
 
That's what I thought..... We went a couple days ago. He needs a dental cleaning but no sign of infection and full blood work was great.......
 
After running a curve today I have decided to invest in an automatic pet feeder to stop the insanity of only feeding twice a day. My thoughts right now is the limited feedings have contributed to the high bg readings I have been getting lately. If you are interested in one Amazon has the Petsafe Eatwell 5 discounted at $29.86 for Prime members.
 
Roo is a snacker. His numbers have been so good for so long with the food he's on. I could try to reduce the dry and give more canned but I really feel there's something else at play, just don't what it could be.
 
Reducing the dry sounds like a good plan. From everything I have read on here the dry food causes higher readings.
 
Yeah but this is supposed to be one of the best dry foods (he insists on his crunchies), no grain, potatoes, etc. And he wasn't a fan of the zero carb dry (one of the ladies was nice and sent me some).
 
I understand the finicky cat challenge. Finding a quality has been an impossible challenge on our house too. I had switched to the raw diet from Dr. Lisa's site and Spikes's BG levels were heading in the right direction. Then he suddenly got really sick and now he refuses to touch it. I have spent hours in several pet store using the carb calculator (scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.htm ) in hopes off finding something he will eat that doesn't send his numbers through the roof.
 
We tried raw as well, vet was a little leary of it (interesting) but he wasn't a fan of it. Granted it was when we were making so many changes, I've thought of trying it again but he was doing so well (8 months OTJ). I hadn't seen this calculator...... Orijen comes out to 19... Canned is harder but I've used this chart (http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf) He was more of a pate' than shredded but during the tough time, he was practically living on canned people tuna so I thought I would give BFF another try and as I said, he hasn't turned his nose up at it not even once. So came the thought of more canned, less dry.
 
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