? Rom's spreadsheet. Thoughts?

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Sue484

Member Since 2015
Hi. Can anyone have a look over Rom's spreadsheet and say what they think is going on? Since Friday he has been coasting along nicely (on Caninsulin/Vetsulin and AT meter). I think he is doing this on purpose as I had just emailed a vet at the remission clinic at the RVC for advice on whether he could be switched to Lantus and he does this!! Unfortunately, the remission clinic mainly work with ProZinc now and I would have to go to that insulin first due to the cascade system in the UK which the vet did not feel to be beneficial as it works very similar to Caninsulin except longer lasting.
 
Can anyone have a look over Rom's spreadsheet and say what they think is going on?
Hmmm.....
Have there been any changes in the last few days Sue? Different food? Rom's appetite?

ProZinc ... very similar to Caninsulin except longer lasting.

Although Prozinc, like Caninsulin, is considered to be an 'in and out' insulin (ie. non-depot), they are - in the experience of people on the forum - actually quite different.
Prozinc has a longer duration than Caninsulin (most cats will get 12 hours duration). It typically drops the blood glucose much more gently than Caninsulin. And the nadir would probably happen a bit later in the cycle.

If you switch to Prozinc you may find that the longer cycles result in slightly reduced preshot numbers. You may find that you need a lower dose of Prozinc than Caninsulin.
The numbers may be a bit more even as the cat's BG is less likely to drop steeply and then bounce; and the cat will have insulin in it's system for more of the time.

It is often advised that cats on Caninsulin eat a meal maybe 20 mins before the insulin shot. And sometimes people will also give snacks an hour to an hour and a half after the shot to slow down any steep drop in blood glucose. Neither of these measures should be necessary with an appropriate dose of Prozinc (unless the kitty has an atypical response to it...;))

Eliz
 
Nothing different. No food changes, appetite still very good. It's just like he flicked a switch. Most bizarre. Luckily, he has never had an extreme drop at the start of the cycle and gets his lunch at around +4. Still, I'm not complaining at his numbers lately, and I'll carry on with Caninsulin if he keeps reacting like this.
 
Could he have stopped bouncing, maybe?
Or maybe his pancreas is producing a bit of insulin which enables the cycle to be extended (if the numbers come into decent range sometimes the pancreas can produce enough insulin to 'pick up the ball and run with it' for a while...)
Still, I'm not complaining at his numbers lately, and I'll carry on with Caninsulin if he keeps reacting like this.
Yes, long may it continue! And improve! :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Eliz
 
Those are good numbers, Cappuccino is in a clinical trial at the RVC at the moment and I recently switched to Prozinc and it is a different beast to Caninsulin with a shallower curve and longer duration of action, I don't know if she is the treatment arm or not but I am getting very good results (her dosing is individualised to her just in case you are wondering what I am up to with her doses on those numbers). If you do want to change I can recommend Prozinc but he seems to be doing fine on the Caninsulin.
 
Looks good! Vetsulin /canisilun gets a bad rap sometimes, but for some kitties it works very well. I would stick with that 1.5 dose for a while!
 
@Elizabeth and Bertie @JanetNJ I know. I have no idea what happened, but Caninsulin is really working for him lately. No-one posts a daily condo for Caninsulin do they? Shame. I feel like I want to shout from the rooftops!!
Looking good these past few days! I'd stick with 1.5.... Or even push it to 1.75 and try to push her into slightly lower Numbers. So nice seeing those blues!
 
@JanetNJ There was no food put down after 11pm last night as usual. All bowls were empty this morning. At least at +4 he has come down to 10.6 (191) Phew! :cool:
Sounds good. Really that was a low pink number.... She's ok. Nice to see the blues again though for sure. The more she can stay in the blues, the more chance it gives the pancreas to test and heal.
 
@JanetNJ There was no food put down after 11pm last night as usual. All bowls were empty this morning. At least at +4 he has come down to 10.6 (191) Phew! :cool:
The same starting number just a week ago only came down to the yellows south a higher dose.... That seams indicative of some improvement.
 
@JanetNJ Do you think his pancreas is kicking in a bit? I was wondering the same thing but thought it doubtful seeing as in December it's two years since his diagnosis.
 
@JanetNJ Do you think his pancreas is kicking in a bit? I was wondering the same thing but thought it doubtful seeing as in December it's two years since his diagnosis.
Hard to say.... Even if he's never totally of insulin he certainly could get more and more consistently in lower numbers. Anything is possible though.
 
Do you think his pancreas is kicking in a bit?
I think that's quite possible.
Rom seems to be getting some extended cycles now (which with Caninsulin - typically known for it's short cycles - can often be a sign of pancreatic activity).

was wondering the same thing but thought it doubtful seeing as in December it's two years since his diagnosis.
Bertie's first couple of years were spent in pretty high numbers. Over time things improved for him, and a change of insulin along the way did work wonders. In the early days we were up to 5 units Caninsulin 3 times a day. And right now, about 9 years on, he's down to about half a unit of Hypurin PZI every 2 - 3 days. I hope this reassures you, Sue, that improvement is always possible! ...And there have been cats here that have gone into remission a few years after diagnosis too...

Eliz
 
No-one posts a daily condo for Caninsulin do they? Shame.
No, people don't post their Caninsulin data. And I agree that it is a shame.
And neither is there a specific thread for Caninsulin/Vetsulin users to post that their kitties have gone into remission (unlike the PZI and L&L forums).
I do wonder if this relative 'invisibility' helps to fuel the belief here that Caninsulin can't do a good job.
...And also, I rather feel that Caninsulin users often go unnoticed on the forum itself. Since most experienced members here are using the L insulins or Prozinc/PZI, there just aren't so many people jumping in to help Caninsulin users.

It is true that some cats have done really badly on Caninsulin. There have been cases where even the tiniest dose would send a cat's blood glucose level plummeting through the floor, and then soaring skywards. Absolutely awful for cat and caregiver....
But there have been numerous cases where cats have done just fine. Over the years I have seen very many cats on Caninsulin go into remission, often within the first few months of treatment. And occasionally cats go into remission so quickly that people here hardly get the chance to learn their names!
....It is likely that most of these cats fall into that sizeable group that only need a need a short time on insulin and a switch to an appropriate diet to get them into remission. And some, like Helen Jayne's cat, Fred (who's just gone into remission), have had steroid induced diabetes. ...But these are, nevertheless, tremendous successes!

Eliz
 
No, people don't post their Caninsulin data. And I agree that it is a shame.
And neither is there a specific thread for Caninsulin/Vetsulin users to post that their kitties have gone into remission (unlike the PZI and L&L forums).
I do wonder if this relative 'invisibility' helps to fuel the belief here that Caninsulin can't do a good job.
...And also, I rather feel that Caninsulin users often go unnoticed on the forum itself. Since most experienced members here are using the L insulins or Prozinc/PZI, there just aren't so many people jumping in to help Caninsulin users.

It is true that some cats have done really badly on Caninsulin. There have been cases where even the tiniest dose would send a cat's blood glucose level plummeting through the floor, and then soaring skywards. Absolutely awful for cat and caregiver....
But there have been numerous cases where cats have done just fine. Over the years I have seen very many cats on Caninsulin go into remission, often within the first few months of treatment. And occasionally cats go into remission so quickly that people here hardly get the chance to learn their names!
....It is likely that most of these cats fall into that sizeable group that only need a need a short time on insulin and a switch to an appropriate diet to get them into remission. And some, like Helen Jayne's cat, Fred (who's just gone into remission), have had steroid induced diabetes. ...But these are, nevertheless, tremendous successes!

Eliz
Smiffy is in remission on Caninsulin and Her spreadsheet is for all to see .....

Unfortunately my computer is down and so I have not been able to update her spreadsheet for the four days she has been without insulin (this is from my iPad) but I have posted her data on her thread "Smiffy's new low numbers August/September".

Have a look @Sue84

I will update her spreadsheet as soon as I can
 
Thought you might want to look at Smiffy's numbers as you can see that for her Caninsulin started to last pretty much the whole 12 hours.

I will be able to communicate with you better Sue when my computer is up and running ....seems I can't even tag you on this iPad!

Thanks for tagging me .... I will look in on you as soon as my computer is back x
 
QUOTE="Sue484, post: 1778114, member: 12546"]I wonder if I should start a trend. :) But I see @Looby & Smiify is doing something similar. We can be trendsetters together![/QUOTE]
Hi Sue!

Unfortunately my computer is down at the moment and I am having trouble using the FDMB with my iPad.

I can't see your spreadsheet until I gat my computer back but yes I think we could start a trend!

I will look at it hopefully over the weekend and we can share stories.

Sorry If I am repeating myself ! Really having trouble even taggin on this I pad so tag me again over the weekend when I will have my computer up and running.

Sorry also for typos and predictive text.

Haven't given Smiffy any insulin for four days now!

Sounds like you are heading that way with Romulus
 
I've been following your story with interest @Looby & Smiify and seen your computer troubles and how amazing Smiffy is doing. I can only hope that Frankie and Rom go the same way, but Rom I still can't believe it's been nearly a week from him with normal numbers. PMPS he is 11.1 (200). I am definitely starting a condo every day for him and look forward to you joining in whenever you can. I will certainly tag you on Saturday. I hope Smiffy continues to behave himself!!!
 
Nice PMPS Sue!

Smiffy's PMBG so no shot is 7.7 (139) tonight!!!

Look forward to getting to know you and your puss cats better at the weekend.

I will soon be posting a new thread about Smiffy's success with Caninsulin (Vetsulin) so that, as you say, @Elizabeth and Bertie more people get to know about some of the Caninsulin success stories and Sue looks like you might be joining me soon!
 
Sue

Considering that you are using a pet meter, as opposed to a human meter where you would be looking for lower numbers, Romulus's numbers are getting into good ranges. still a bit too high for remission, but definitely getting more into the regulated range. At this point the Caninsulin seems to be working for Rom, so IMO you should continue with the treatment plan you have set up for the time being. If it ain't broke...don't fix it!! ;)

:bighug:
 
@Tuxedo Mom No, I'm not planning on changing it now. I was, and on the very day I start making enquiries, he decided to get regulated. Typical cat!! +6 he is 4.2 (76) :D

@Looby & Smiify Smiffy is doing great. I look forward to getting to know you too. Will be doing a daily condo now for Rom as well as Frankie (in the Lantus section). Look out for it!
 
@Tuxedo Mom No, I'm not planning on changing it now. I was, and on the very day I start making enquiries, he decided to get regulated. Typical cat!! +6 he is 4.2 (76) :D

@Looby & Smiify Smiffy is doing great. I look forward to getting to know you too. Will be doing a daily condo now for Rom as well as Frankie (in the Lantus section). Look out for it!
Hey just one daft question - I'm not familiar with the term condo? What does that mean?

+ 6 number is awesome!
 
Oh OK!!!

I thought to begin with you were in the UK but if you are on line now you must be in Canada? It's now nearly 3am in the morning here near London and I am up soothing our two cats through the thunder and lightening but will have to head for bed soon!

My computer may be back tomorrow or Saturday so I can't read any links or spreadsheets as my iPad doesn't seem to like them for some reason ..... don't think I have it all set up properly yet but I will have a look at everything soon I promise and write at more length.

I assume all your condos are in the same thread?

I have no experience of Lantus nor do I understand how it works so I will leave that to the experts on Lantus but will look at Frankies numbers when I ca out of interest.

I can't even send you a smiley from my iPad!

Let me know where you are will you?

Big Smiley!!!
 
Callie has been doing so much better. In May she had UTI that drove her numbers sky high- up to over 600 (black) . Tonight she is a no shoot. Her PMPS was 130. in the last few weeks, she has a few in the 60's.
 
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