Rodent ulcers in diabetic cats

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bikerbaker

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Hello.

Im new have just joined your forum from the uk.

My lovely boy Coco aged 7yrs was diagnosed with diabetes last year. Currently I inject him with Caninsulin twice a day. All was ticking along reasonably well until he developed a rodent ulcer (eosinohilic granuloma) on his upper. Initially treated successfully with long acting antiobiotics, and it seemed to clear up completley. Then 3 months ago it flared up again, my vet did a biopsy and confirmed it was not cancer and indeed a rodent ulcer. So she operated 3 weeks ago to try and remove the ulceration, and cauterized the wounds. to my complete horror it's back again already, my poor boy. So took him back to the vets again last night & she gave him more antibiotics and then said that will probably get much worse and since he cant take steroids, it may be the reason we eventually have to put him to sleep. I am absolutley devastated and refuse to give up on my lovely boy, we have come so far with controlling his diabetes, and he has been so brave. Has anyone had this problem and caould anyone give me some advice?????? please...
 
Hi there and welcome to the board!

We have a non diabetic cat who suffers from rodent ulcers. She never had one in her life until about a month after putting her on wet cat food (because of the diabetic cat) Anyways, she received a steroid shot as well as an antibiotic shot to take care of it. We thought perhaps she was allergic to something in that flavor wet cat food and put her on another. Within a months time she had yet another ulcer on her lip. Another steroid shot took care of that one. So yet again, we switched her to a different wet cat food. And yet again, a rodent ulcer appeared and she needed another shot to get it taken care of.

Finally we made the choice to put her back on dry cat food. She stopped getting her rodent ulcers for a good long while, then we found she had another one. Again, another steroid shot took care of the ulcer. So obviously it was not the wet cat food that caused the ulcers it was just coincidence that it happened around the same time as the switch. Knock on wood, she hasn't had any recently ..

As far as we can tell from research a steroid shot is pretty much the only thing that can take care of the ulcers. Our vet told us that a cat who suffers from allergies (like ours does) is more likely to get the ulcers. Not sure if that is true or not .. Our vet also told us that rodent ulcers are not supposed to cause pain, but how can they be sure? I mean, has a cat ever told them they don't hurt? By the looks of them, they look like they would hurt like the dickens ..

I wish I had better information for you .. Sometimes, a steroid shot is the only answer you have and you have to work your cat's insulin accordingly .. If I could control my cats sugars around the steroid shots and the cat was living a happy healthy life, I would do it .. I wouldn't put my girls to sleep because of an occasional steroid shot, but it is each person's own choice to make ..

Hopefully others will be by soon, to help give you more information on this ...
 
Thank you for your advice. I will talk to my vet and maybe ask her if we can juggle the insulin to allow for a steroid injection. I hate to see my boy suffering but as I said im not about to give up on him .
 
My suggestion would be to try to find what the allergic agent is. It may be in the food or in the household environment. Have you had anything replaced recently, such as carpeting or furniture? Just a suggestion. Gandalf suffered eosinophilic granulomas during the 7 years we lived in an apartment. Within a year of moving out, they stopped. I believe there was something in the apartment such as carpeting which caused his, he had eruptions on his lips too, but they first showed up on his paw pads. He was treated with the steroid Depo medrol for 7 years, 3 shots per year on average. I believe that coupled with the dry, grain filled food he ate, is what lead him to become diabetic.
 
Hi.
Thank you for your suggestions.
I did wonder if there was anything in the house, but nothing has really changed in that respect. The only thing I can think of is that i usually have a Feliway Diffuser on the go, but it has run out??? I have also recently bought a Water Fountain????..could the filtered water be causing a problem...I spoke to my vet again today, she does not want to give him steroids as this could totally mess up his reasonably steady blood sugars. He is currently on Hills C/D diet as he also has a problem with bladder crystals, and I asked her if perhaps the problem could be the "fillers" used in these dried foods???? She didnt think so, however every thing I have read about diabetic cats leads me to believe that I should not be feeding COCO on dried food....my vet feels that food is not a major part in controlling diabetes in cats as it is in felines???? Surely it's a major part????

I have been investigating various foods aand what is available in the uk.....someone suggested Bozita from Sweden, as it's high in protein but low in carbs, but when I suggested this to my vet she said that the high protein element could lead to kidney problems???

It seems every avenue I turn there is a stumbling block, and I would really appreciate any advice from real owners who have been through this.......
 
Yes our cat suffers from eosinohilic granuloma. He has very little, if any lip ulcers but he has a large growth on the back of his tongue. Never biopsied but been there for so long that vets assume eosinohilic granuloma. Plus he has other skin problems and allergies to food and environment and fleas.

Big big issue is flea control. I have taken a very long time to get that thru my thick head! I am now dosing LB every month like I should have done all along. I don't see flea's on him but fleas and mosquitos - and any little bities can cause a reaction with their immune system. We also had a case of chin acne a few yrs back and it took ages to clear up. I am now thinking that had we had a better flea control program, way back then.... our kitty would not have turned into the allergic moggie he now is. Now he's allergic to food and possibly environmental too.

I'm a little surprised that your vet operated on the ulcer. Although I know the US will sometimes operate for the oral granuloma's - they don't operate for them here in OZ. However we did have to put our kitty on steriods and that was the end of normal life as we know it. (diabetes) In hind sight I should have changed his diet and whole approached to the problem.20/20 hindsight. He is now very allergic to fancy feast, beef, tinned food generally.... which he ate a lot of pre diabetes. The allergies have been much worse since dx for FD.

One feline skin specialist told me to give LB a small dose of evening primrose oil every day - and maybe you can order in Forti Flora (the US folks seem to swear by it). I've also read the brewers yeast is good for cats with diabetes - and I suspect it could be good for their skin issues. I think it's about finding a way to support and strengthen their immune system. As I understand this problem is auto immune - I presume you've read about it?

It's very complicated and takes ages to understand. Went to a new vet yesterday and was told that diabetes and skin problems are related - coming from a basically unhappy digestive system. Read what you can about cat health. I think the raw diet is better than dry especially if you are the sort of person who can make up batches of raw as taught on this web site. I thought dry was the root of kidney problems - and of course it means you have to give more insulin. If you want to add some carbs to the raw mix to cut down on the protein then you follow a trial and error course.

With this condition its a case of PAY ME NOW OR PAY ME LATER. Better to sort it early - get your kitty on a healthy diet with supplements and build his immune system up. He's only 7. He's only going to get worse over time if you use bandage methods the way I did. :oops:

I'm just home from the UK. Had wonderful time.

Marilyn
 
HELLO MARILYN.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR ADVICE. I DID WONDER ABOUT THE "FLEA" ISSUE AND REALISED i HADNT KEPT COMPLETLEY UP TO DATE WITH MY FLEA TREATMENT, SO A TRIP TO THE VET AND COCO HAS BEEN DOSED.

i WAS VERY SURPRISED MY VET DECIDED TO OPERATE ON THE ULCER, AND TO BE QUITE HONEST ALL IT HAS DONE, IS PUT MY POOR BOY THROUGH A NASTY OP, AND THEN TO MAKE THE WHOLE THING WORSE. I AM NOT HAPPY AT ALL & NEITHER IS COCO. SHE CUT AWAY QUITE A BIT PORTION OF HIS LIP, THEN CAUTERIZED IT, AND NOW ULCERS BACK WORSE THAN EVER.

AS YOU SAY COCO IS QUITE YOUNG AND I REALLY JUST WANT TO MAKE IT ALL BETTER FOR HIM. HE'S QUITE A HAPPY CHAP BUT HIS POOR MOUTH JUST LOOKS TERRIBLE, AND ALTO THE VET SAYS THE ULCER IS NOT PAINFUL, I DISAGREE IT MUST BE SO UNCOMFORTABLE.

BUT I WILL PERSEVERE, AND KEEP TRYING EVERYTHING I CAN. I HAVE INVESTIGATED GETTING SOME EVENING PRIMROSE OIL CAPSULES I CAN PUT ON HIS FOOD.

YOUR ADVICE IS MUCH APPRECIATED.
 
I've lost the link that I found for you. I lost the whole message. Dang! I googled Rodent Ulcer. Then found the sites discussing cats. feline rodent ulcer would be better. Just give a little evening primrose oil or flax-seed oil. 100mgs per day. Might even be less. Your vet is meant to tell you how much is ok. I saw a dermatologist vet. He told me to mix it with olive oil. (I can't quite remember now) I need to look for the paper work for that visit. A dermatologist is probably a good step for you. I paid $200 for the visit and told them they were not at liberty to do endless tests. I can't help feeling they think of their pocket ahead of our pets. He wasn't too pleased but when he started the examination he fell victim LB's charms. They can't be meant to our pets - even if they find us a bit tedious.

Keep in contact with me when you can as we have similar issues. The message I lost I suggested you buy brewers yeast tabs for Coco. it's good for diabetes and very good for skin issues. We can't get them in OZ but I should buy the powder. it's a tonic that would build him up which is what you are aiming to do.

best
 
HI.
Thank you for advice re: brewers yeast, I will look into that.

As of yesterday, COCO another visit to vets for checkup. Rodent Ulcer is less angry, could be responding to antibiotics, have also been very careful with his food and de-fleaded him just in case. He seems a lot chirpier, i just hate to see his poor mouth look so nasty. He's eating well and up to all his usual activities, bopping all the surrounding cats on the head with his paw!
 
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