*resolved*HELP PMPS 138 w/ PANCREATITIS

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Sorry. Only just seeing this. Not that I'm familiar with Prozinc...

We normally ask people with newly diagnosed cats to skip below 150. But I see that you test a lot and if you can monitor, you can gradually lower your no-shoot number.
He's doing great! Maybe this dose will nudge him into normal numbers (50-99)! :-)
 
Hopefully! He was just diagnosed with pancreatitis today but I have 4 cats in total with diarrhea so I'm assuming he has a bug that has inflamed his pancreas?
 
Katsallday said:
Tuna is headed towards a hypo right now, 65 at +3

His PMPS was 137 so we only pushed a drop! I just gave him a teaspoon of wet dm, now I have to worry about hypo and pancreatitis too:arghh::arghh::arghh:
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Responding in latest thread.
65 is a safe-enough number. Test again in half an hour?
 
Katsallday said:
Will do, he seems fine but hungry. Following my vets advice I lowered his food amount but now he's super hungry
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Is the DM regular DM or DM Selects? The former is 6% carbs. The latter is 10%

Why did the vet ask you to reduce his food amount? Is he overweight?
 
Hi, did you get another test?

Btw, I'm curious about why you shoot at 2am! That's the middle of the night! :eek:
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Hi, did you get another test?

Btw, I'm curious about why you shoot at 2am! That's the middle of the night! :eek:
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I actually shoot at 3am and do PS at 2:30am. My fiance is a server in a restaurant that stays open very late and I have a panic disorder I couldn't shoot the insulin if my life depended on it lol! So it's up to him, he leaves for work at 3pm and gets home at 3am. My hero!
 
Katsallday said:
She wanted me to reduce because of the Pancreatitis and vomit but only for one day and yep he's overweight
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I've never heard of this. Usually with pancreatitis you're struggling to maintain enough calories and at risk for fatty liver disease. I don't have experience with vomiting due to pancreatitis (my girl had the nausea but no vomiting) but I would think smaller, frequent meals would do better than reducing food altogether?
 
Katsallday said:
Its crazy how many reductions I've had recently, even with this pancreatitis! You would think pancreatitis would make it all worse?
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You would think...but Mr kitty's numbers magically improved when he had his last bout. I explicable and I've been pondering it for months now
 
FrostD said:
You would think...but Mr kitty's numbers magically improved when he had his last bout. I explicable and I've been pondering it for months now
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I just looked at your spreadsheet wow! Immediately blue! I did a drop dose today and I'm sure without intervention tuna would have went hypo. I kept giving him bites of his wet DM, not only because of the falling number but also because his diet was so reduced. I don't think half a can of food for a day is too smart for an 18 lb cat
 
Katsallday said:
Do you think I can push 0.10u with u-40 syringes with no half unit markings? I spent all my money and then some at the vet yesterday
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Since you say you ( your wonderful S.O. actually) were able to give Tuna a one drop dose, you should be able to keep using the U40 syringes. Just ask your significant other to try and be consistent with that tiny dose.

Are you able to draw the insulin into the syringe, but not inject it yourself? That could help your very tired partner from having to measure that dose after a long day at work.

With those low pre-shot BG numbers, it’s better to stall. But maybe not an option since your SO is the one to give the actual shot. In that case, you may decide to skip the shot instead.

Lack of appetite and/ or the vomiting could be the cause for the low BG numbers.

If you can slowly get Tuna to shed some of that excess weight, that will help with the diabetes too.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Since you say you ( your wonderful S.O. actually) were able to give Tuna a one drop dose, you should be able to keep using the U40 syringes. Just ask your significant other to try and be consistent with that tiny dose.

Are you able to draw the insulin into the syringe, but not inject it yourself? That could help your very tired partner from having to measure that dose after a long day at work.

With those low pre-shot BG numbers, it’s better to stall. But maybe not an option since your SO is the one to give the actual shot. In that case, you may decide to skip the shot instead.

Lack of appetite and/ or the vomiting could be the cause for the low BG numbers.

If you can slowly get Tuna to shed some of that excess weight, that will help with the diabetes too.
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He has only vomited the one time (3 piles though) 2 days ago at +6 and the diarrhea has stopped and today's whole cycle looks like a normal cats cycle with no insulin! I can't believe it!!!!!
 
Tunas PMPS is 122 with greens all day on a NS. He snuck into some hills glucosupport dry food I had from my first vet so it could be a food bump? Last night his PMPS was 138 so we shot a drop and he dipped very quickly to +3 65. To shoot or not to shoot?
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Just saw this. It's probably the food causing the bump. When did he eat it.
Looks like you skipped which is good
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It's in the 130s right now which has kinda broken my heart a bit. I felt for the first time today some semblance of control and poof all gone with a 130 BG


Update: it's at 105 now I'm so confused
 
Idk what is going on with tuna. Can someone check his spreadsheet and help me. I'm so confused. Yesterday looked perfect, I started researching OTJ trials and everything, now today is averaging 20-30 points higher.
 
Health issues like pancreatitis can raise BG, so that's probably partially it. But the other issues is no shots...even though his numbers are good, his pancreas still isn't fully functional (especially with pancreatitis). So while it might fire up for a cycle or two, it wears out and sputters after that.

It's why we recommend holding drop doses for as long as you can before doing OTJ trial, to give the pancreas time to completely heal. Anecdotally, the drop doses help with creating a strong remission.

Think of it like being out of shape and trying to run a mile - you feel great and run fast the first 500 ft or whatever, but then because you're out of shape you slow down and cramp up. Whereas if you run every day for two weeks, you're in better shape and can do the whole mile without being winded/sore
 
FrostD said:
Health issues like pancreatitis can raise BG, so that's probably partially it. But the other issues is no shots...even though his numbers are good, his pancreas still isn't fully functional (especially with pancreatitis). So while it might fire up for a cycle or two, it wears out and sputters after that.

It's why we recommend holding drop doses for as long as you can before doing OTJ trial, to give the pancreas time to completely heal. Anecdotally, the drop doses help with creating a strong remission.
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What about his super low preshots? If he's running at 120 and I drop dose him he will probably go hypo. The drop dose I did with a PS of 138 put him in hypo territory. Gave him high calorie gravy to keep him in the 70s.do I risk the hypo and do a drop?
 
Katsallday said:
What about his super low preshots? If he's running at 120 and I drop dose him he will probably go hypo. The drop dose I did with a PS of 138 put him in hypo territory. Gave him high calorie gravy to keep him in the 70s.do I risk the hypo and do a drop?
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High carb dry can affect numbers for longer. Give it till tomorrow to get out of his system and see how he's doing.
 
Katsallday said:
What about his super low preshots? If he's running at 120 and I drop dose him he will probably go hypo. The drop dose I did with a PS of 138 put him in hypo territory. Gave him high calorie gravy to keep him in the 70s.do I risk the hypo and do a drop?
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You want to keep him in the greens as long as possible. I know you have anxiety, so perhaps try to gradually lower the point at which you intervene.

The typical guideline is 1-2 tsp of medium carb food at a time to slow down fast drops, same thing when in the 50s. Drop below 50 is 1-2tsp at a time of high carb food, honey/karo if you think he's still dropping too hard. All the while testing every 20-30 mins. But ECID, do what's comfortable for you. You did a pretty good job the night of 6/4, but there appears to be a bit of overcorrection because he went too high at the end of the cycle.

He's very close to remission. Hopefully once this bout of pancreatitis is over, you only have to drop dose for a week or two before doing OTJ trial.
 
OH I missed the part where he got dry. Agree with Bhooma - give it a day or two to get out of his system. I still think he needs a bit of insulin based on prior data.

When you get a chance can you put food notes in the Remarks column? What he got and when?
 
Thank you both so much, I'll get on the notes right away! Tuna hasn't had diarrhea in 24 hours woohoo!he did take the world's longest pee last night, clocking in at just under a minute of pee stream :eek: I guess the subq fluids worked real well
 
Does hills dry glucosupport have a staying power past 14 hours? Idk if I should do a drop dose with an amps of 146 or see if he clears this?
 
Katsallday said:
"I put the lowest amount possible in the syringe" from my fiance lol
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To measure a drop dose, push the plunger of the empty syringe in fully, keep it pressed and insert in the pen. Let go of the pressure on the plunger and it will draw a drop. When you insert the needle into Tuna, push the plunger and count to ten if he will let you.

You are probably shooting 0.10U rather than a drop!
 
Bandit's Mom said:
To measure a drop dose, push the plunger of the empty syringe in fully, keep it pressed and insert in the pen. Let go of the pressure on the plunger and it will draw a drop. When you insert the needle into Tuna, push the plunger and count to ten if he will let you.

You are probably shooting 0.10U rather than a drop!
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He's gone til 2am now but I will let him know! I've been letting him graze on his food these past few days as well. I saw someone mention that it's better for sugar cats. He seems to like it better this way!
 
Bandit's Mom said:
I would wait to see what his numbers are tonight. If blue again, you might want to look at giving him a drop dose for a few days to see if you can reduce the blues.
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I'm so excited! His numbers so far tonight have been lovely! I am knocking on wood though but I get to call my vet tomorrow and tell them "ha you suck the forum works" because I told the second vet about you guys and they said " most of those sites are just quack jobs" I'm SO HAPPY to prove them wrong! My third vet is more open to the forum so I'll be very pleased to show her the new numbers as well! I'm so grateful to you and everyone who has helped me here! I
 
Katsallday said:
His numbers so far tonight have been lovely!
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They are indeed! You are feeding DM or DM Selects? Will he not eat any other canned food?
DM is 6%, DM Selects is 10%. I'm curious about whether he will do better on a lower carb food - Fancy Feast / Friskies / Tiki Cat lower carb versions.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
They are indeed! You are feeding DM or DM Selects? Will he not eat any other canned food?
DM is 6%, DM Selects is 10%. I'm curious about whether he will do better on a lower carb food - Fancy Feast / Friskies / Tiki Cat lower carb versions.
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I'd like to try fancy feast or friskies, I don't think he likes the tikicat so much. What flavor do you recommend in them? I was doing normal DM not selects

Just got a neg ketone test too!
 
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Hi Katrina! Lovely numbers from Tuna! I agree with @Bandit's Mom that Tuna still needs insulin. Please look at Ruby's spreadsheet and her numbers from the past few days (ignore the yellows and blues, those are from her tummy flares that make her BGs spike). What you see are all greens, numbers between 50 and 80. Those are the numbers you want to see Tuna getting before he goes OTJ. It will take a little more time. Give him a drop next time (I pull .5 units of insulin into the syringe, then push it out along with any bubbles until the plunger touches the clear stopper at the top of the syringe. That fills the needle with a single fat drop of insulin.) Do that to get those blues to flatten. You might need to increase it up to .1 units and then come back down again. You'll also need to get comfy with shooting green numbers and switch to TR. That's the best way to get him OTJ. We can help you. Make a new post every day in the Prozinc forum with Tuna's numbers. So excited for you guys! :woot:

Re: food: The regular DM wet food is fine for Tuna to eat. It's low carb and cats seem to like it. But it's a little pricey. Since Tuna has pancreatitis, what you want is an easily digestible food with little/no fillers that might irritate or inflame his stomach that is palatable to him. The Fancy Feast and Friskies are fine, but they have lots of additives that might not agree with Tuna. Both of my cats have been chronic vomiters, and it got better after switching to wet food, but after Ruby's diagnoses of kidney disease and possible IBD/SCL (we know she has SCL now), I switched them both to a raw diet. Very infrequent vomiting and really nice non-smelly poops happen now. I get raw boneless ground meats and mix in meal completers like EZ Complete and Alnutrin with eggshell calcium, portion out, freeze and thaw as needed daily. It takes me about a half an hour to make a 10 day batch of food for them. They love it and it costs me about the same and sometimes less to feed them on raw than high quality commercial food depending on the kind of meat I choose. I rotate fattier proteins like beef, lamb, duck with leaner turkey. They love it and beg me for pieces of raw chicken whenever I prepare to cook it for myself. You can start by buying a pound of some meat he's probably never had, a novel protein like bison, from the supermarket, and get some Alnutrin (EZ Complete is out of stock until the end of this week), some chicken liver (I add .8 ounces per pound of ground meat), and some fish oil (three capsules cut open and oil mixed in per pound) and make a batch to see if he likes it. Alnutrin's website has recipes to get you started quickly. If raw is totally off the table for you, Ziwipeak venison is a good lower carb option with no additives and it's a novel protein.

But first, get rid of the kibble! I have heard that even if cats smell kibble in the house they will hold out for it. :bighug:
 
FrostD said:
How is he feeling today?
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He's feeling great! He even went crazy with a toy, like more so then I've seen in months! He even had a beautiful poop! Like A++ perfect poop LMAO

PerfumedCatMom said:
Hi Katrina! Lovely numbers from Tuna! I agree with @Bandit's Mom that Tuna still needs insulin. Please look at Ruby's spreadsheet and her numbers from the past few days (ignore the yellows and blues, those are from her tummy flares that make her BGs spike). What you see are all greens, numbers between 50 and 80./QUOTE]
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We will need to convince my fiance of the need of insulin still. He's now thinking tuna had pancreatitis when he was diagnosed with diabetes because they didn't do a pancreatitis test. He now thinks that the pancreatitis is getting better so he doesn't need insulin anymore. I don't know what to think, tuna's numbers have always confused me he seemed to go towards a hypo no matter what dose I did. I'm not going to lie I'm afraid of the 50s. When he's in the 60s I start to panic. I thought that on a human meter 80-120 is the normal BG range btw?
 
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