replacing Vetsulin for Lantus

Paca's Mom said:
that's great information Julie and Honey. I will check out amazon... you say its a place called whole life pet? And than you Kris and Teasel. I will check out these minnow treats. But with freeze dried treats...dont you need to moisten them first?
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Whole life pet is the brand name I got, but if you google freeze dried cat treats you will find a bunch of brands.
 
http://www.wholelifepet.com/just-one-salmon-cat

Here is link to see info, but would check around for best price. I think other brands are similar, I liked these because the skin is removed and some people mentioned on other brands with skin they were tougher. My cat is missing 6 teeth and she did not have trouble eating as long as I break into smaller pieces.
 
oh that's wonderful Julie and Honey. and you say you just break up little pieces and dont make it moist? i appreciate the link very much. this will be a must when i can get enough money to order again online.
 
Paca's Mom said:
oh that's wonderful Julie and Honey. and you say you just break up little pieces and dont make it moist? i appreciate the link very much. this will be a must when i can get enough money to order again online.
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No, I don’t moisten it, but you probably could if you wanted to:)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
PLEASE don't give up on testing. Ask for help. @Djamila is one of the owners of a cat who was semi feral and didn't welcome BG testing.
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Hi Paca's Mom! I'm so sorry to hear that testing has been a struggle for you and Paca. It really shouldn't be a stress to either of you. I have not forgotten how hard it was at the beginning for me and my wild kitty. I still wouldn't say he likes the tests, but he comes willingly now and loves the treats and the kisses and the chin scratches. He even reminds me if I'm in danger of losing track of time. I have written a lot about the process I went through to get him used to the testing. if you click on the "profile" link in my signature, and scroll to the end, you'll find the section about testing, and in particular the routine we went through to get him to tolerate them well. It's a lot of work at the beginning to build the trust and establish the routine. But once that is done, it gets to easy and quick. It's worth the effort in the beginning. I wish you the best, and please ask any questions you have. We all understand how hard this can be and are happy to help. :bighug:
 
hurt my hand the other day...almost took a finger off trying to make a ramp for Paca. He is now having a hard time getting up the make shift few stairs to the bed due to the continued neuropathy because the BG's have not been controlled these few months. He has had 400-500 almost to 600 constantly the past few months on the vetsulin. This dose of Lantus is not enough. it's been even more difficult to get the BG's but today I got the am BG. where is the link that says how many days a cat needs to be on a certain before raising the dose by .25u. I want to read that information but not sure where to look. thanks
 
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Thank you for the links. Im so sorry to ask so many questions... Here is another one please... Paca has only gone hypoglycemic one time on me in these 4 months and it was during a .25 raise in his Vetsulin. Wow that was scary. What I need to know is if he doesnt eat well at his feeding before his injection how long after he eats does it qualify for me to give him the injection? For example let me say he only eats 1/4 of a can and not 1/2 or 3/4 of a can and i wait 1/2 an hour then try offering food again and he eats 1/4 of a can again...so 1/2 a can in 1/2 hour to an hour is the food still being processed in his system so that it is safe enough to give him the injection? Thank you
 
I believe that on Lantus you don’t have to worry that much about Paca’s eating a lot around or shortly after the time of the shot, as it is much gentler than Caninsulin and it takes longer for it to start lowering kitty’s BG. So half an hour is imho pretty safe - more experienced ppl please confirm :)
 
I saw a small bump on Paca's ear today and feel a few more scattered. Is that what happens when so many BG's are done continuously? Has anyone experienced this? And could someone please tell me how soon after an insulin injection does hypoglycemia set in. Is it instant within an hour or less or does it show up later? Thank you
 
Well ideally never, that’s one of our goals. But of course hypos happen if the insulin dose is higher than kitty needs. When - that would depend on how low a kitty was when given insulin (the lower BG the sooner) and the dose (the more the sooner). But if you follow the methods described here and the safety rules (don’t inject when the preshot BG is under a certain value, don’t increase the dose more than recommended and test Paco’s BG), you do the best to avoid hypos.

If you follow the rules, then the lowest BG in the cycle is generally in the middle (6 hours after the shot) with Lantus, and may be sooner with Caninsulin (it was 5 hours after the shot for Bacardi, but every cat is different) - that’s why we want to know the curve and test around that time.

The more you test, the better idea you will have about when to expect lower BG values and test there to make sure Paco is safe. But don’t worry, you can always feed some higher carb food if he’s lower than you want. My Bacardi had his only hypos before I started testing him. Since I started, I always knew when he was going lower and it was easy to prevent him from dropping too low. It’s not as scary as it seems, trust me. I was so afraid when I started, but with some testing (just 4 - 5 times a day) you’ll be confident soon. And you are already testing, you’re doing good!:)
 
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As for the ears, I have not seen that with Bacardi. But there are people testing much more, 10 times a day and even more than that, and they said that their kittys ears are just fine - so with just a couple of tests every day you should be OK:)
 
If you have new questions, like how long to hold a dose, it’s best to start a new post. We suggest one post per day if you are posting regularly. Once a post gets overly long, people might top reading.

Hoping to see some under 300’s show up. :)
 
Paca's Mom said:
I saw a small bump on Paca's ear today and feel a few more scattered. Is that what happens when so many BG's are done continuously? Has anyone experienced this? And could someone please tell me how soon after an insulin injection does hypoglycemia set in. Is it instant within an hour or less or does it show up later? Thank you
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It could be from testing but I wouldn't worry. You can try scattering the pokes along the very edge of the ear and alternate ears. Teasel has a couple of tiny spots on his ears that are a bit harder to get blood from. Warming his ear well helps a lot.

Re hypoglycemia: you're most likely to see the lowest BG in the +4 to +7 time period with Lantus but that can change from cycle to cycle. As long as the lowest BG is above 50 on a human meter he's safe. You'd want to give him a small snack of (maybe) slightly higher carb food at that point though. A true hypo with obvious symptoms (staggering, confusion, etc.) isn't likely if you monitor carefully the way we do here on FDMB. That's one HUGE reason that BG testing is so important.
 
Oh thank you Kris I so appreciate your help. I have been telling paca calmly that I am doing this because I am helping him and love him. He just looks at me like yeah right mom. I was reading the sticky for know your insulin sticky and it said something about +10 to administer to overlap? What is that about please.
 
i have tried to reduce the number of temptations treats after the injections and BG tests. for PM injection I offered him some FF salmon fillet instead and only 5 treats. Then I offered him some catnip on his toy as a reward also. I scraped up a little money but bought the wrong choice of freeze dried treats. I could kick myself trying to save a dollar. I bought freeze dried shrimp...total bomb and too chewy dry or moist. Im gonna see if my son can help me go back to the pet store and get the freeze dried salmon treats instead. if that fails im out of ideas for a little while and i dont know at the moment if I will be able to invest in those minnow treats. if so not until the first of the month then. he had his first dose of zobaline in his am meal...that went well. after pm meal and 1/2 salmon fillet then injection he seemed sleepy so i was worried he was going into a hypo attack. I took his BG and he didnt even flinch so because he reacted so lethargically or sleepy and content i got worried and 15 minutes after the dose and and hour after which were the same 366. This evening was his first raised dose of 2.5.
 
https://diabeticcatcare.com/DCCCOK/InsulinScales.htm

this was the link i was referring to. i thought it was from your website. under the Lantus area it describes something about +10 or giving the injection every 10 hours instead of 12 to create some sort of overlap. I did not do that. I did every 12 hours as normal. Thank you again for all your help and patience. You have given me new courage and you are a depth of knowledge.
 
Paca's Mom said:
https://diabeticcatcare.com/DCCCOK/InsulinScales.htm

this was the link i was referring to. i thought it was from your website. under the Lantus area it describes something about +10 or giving the injection every 10 hours instead of 12 to create some sort of overlap. I did not do that. I did every 12 hours as normal. Thank you again for all your help and patience. You have given me new courage and you are a depth of knowledge.
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I suggest you follow the Lantus guide that's here on FDMB. That other link is to a group that uses (used?) a different method for dosing that we don't follow here.

Have you read the yellow Lantus stickies about the SLGS (Start Low Go Slow) and TR (Tight Regulation) dosing methods? You'll see that they give very clear instructions about what to do when. If there's any dry food in Paca's diet SLGS is the one to try. It's less aggressive and you can ease into things more slowly. Read it over and ask a lot of questions. :)
 
If I may reiterate a point or two:
  • We encourage people to start a new thread on a daily basis. Otherwise, there can be a LOT of posts in a thread and not many people will want to wade through the information. You may not want to read everything. It will also make finding something you thought was important very difficult.
  • Please do not use the Diabetic Cat Care site. They have had some horrendous outcomes based on their misinterpretation of tight regulation and the management of low numbers. Following their directions versus ours will leave you confused.
  • Freeze dried treats are great. If cost is an issue, cooked chicken may be an option for you, as well.
 
Paca's Mom said:
i have tried to reduce the number of temptations treats after the injections and BG tests. for PM injection I offered him some FF salmon fillet instead and only 5 treats. Then I offered him some catnip on his toy as a reward also. I scraped up a little money but bought the wrong choice of freeze dried treats. I could kick myself trying to save a dollar. I bought freeze dried shrimp...total bomb and too chewy dry or moist. Im gonna see if my son can help me go back to the pet store and get the freeze dried salmon treats instead. if that fails im out of ideas for a little while and i dont know at the moment if I will be able to invest in those minnow treats. if so not until the first of the month then. he had his first dose of zobaline in his am meal...that went well. after pm meal and 1/2 salmon fillet then injection he seemed sleepy so i was worried he was going into a hypo attack. I took his BG and he didnt even flinch so because he reacted so lethargically or sleepy and content i got worried and 15 minutes after the dose and and hour after which were the same 366. This evening was his first raised dose of 2.5.
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Not sure where you got shrimp treats, but I know my Petco said that will take back if cat does not like them. I also tried shrimp (before I got salmon) and my cat just swats with her paw or tries it and spits it out. I guess that’s her way of saying yuck to that flavor, lol. Those I did get at Petco and they are going back and I am sticking with salmon.

Temptations have a lot of carbs ( they have ground corn and rice) if you are using those after tests and shots several times a day, that may also be throwing off her sugar levels. Suggest reducing those gradually rather than cold turkey to avoid a sudden drop in BG. The cat honestly won’t know the difference between 5 treats and 2.

Also insulin dose may need adjustment to lower dose as well when weaning off high carb treats. Please get advice and don’t just randomly take away all high carb at once while keeping dose as is.

Adjustments need to be made gradually and suggest a new post on the subject of weaning off high carb treats and how to adjust dosing if needed.
 
Yes I understand about the new thread. I will do that from here on out. The best thing about this thread is it has all the reference information in one place for me to quickly access instead of wading through a ton of my own posts trying to find what information i need on which post. But I will post a new thread if I have anymore pertinent questions. Julie I was wondering if they would do that. I got them at PetSmart but the gas to get back over there, especially in such horrible weather would probably just equal out to what I spent. Its my fault...there is so much going on in my life I wasn't thinking clearly about them. If I was I would have thought about it and knew that shrimp is a shell fish and dry or moist its a chewy consitency. Good to know about Petco for future reference though...its alot closer to home lol. I looked at those salmon treats too and to save a buck i wasted 4. I will have to take the loss. Better it be a loss on treats then the Lantus I just invested 200.00 in ya know :) I have begun to wean him off as many treats as he was getting which was alot honestly. His numbers are so off though. This morning he was at 540... :( I have read through the information little by little...there is so much to take in and learn. I really need to be able to get the BG in the am and pm but as far as the other BG...evening is just easier for me to do so. I sent Kris a message so I am glad she knew I had a post here as well but will make new post for the rest of the questions. lol I'm still glad though that all this information is in one spot and easy access. I have referred to the image of the shots and units more than a few times this past week. It was not so easy to grasp at first because I had started with u40 vetsulin with u100 syringes and a converstion from the vet then went to u100 insulin with u100 syringes and it blew my mind at first but good thing Kris had that pic of the syringes and how to read them or would have made a grave error for sure. Hope you have a super day Julie. Thanks Kris for all of your help. Have a good day everyone and thank you as well for all this great information. It is being put to good use.
 
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