Regulation on ProZinc

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Jenn & George

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Hi Jenn here. My kitty, George, 10yo ASH have been working on getting his diabetes regulated on PZI (ProZinc). After a quick try with Humulin N and change of vets, he has been on the ProZinc for about 3 weeks. On the good side, he is getting use to the shots and is fairly cool with the home testing, though he gets a little more pissed when we do the curves every 2 hours. Those have been about once a week see to where his dosing is going. Here is what we have had so far....looking for some feedback from others using ProZinc. Also wondering if others have had kittys with ProZinc dosages in the 3U range. This just seems high, though it looks that is where we are heading.

- 3.5 weeks ago (early April) - switched vets and started on ProZinc from Humulin N (which was doing nothing but roller coasters)
- Let him go for 2 weeks on the vets recommended dosage of 1.5U to start just to get his system use to it. Getting readings of about 550 before shot.
- After 2 weeks (last weekend) did a curve at 1.5U - saw hardly nothing happen - he dropped to mid 400's during peak and then went right back up after about 6 hours. (I misplaced exact numbers after giving to vet this week)
- So this week we raised his dose to 2U - during a curve today and getting the following:
7:30 am - 566
7:45 am - shot after eating 3 oz of wet (Friskies low cal)
9:40 am - 432
12:15 pm - 384
2:00 pm - 473 (surprised by the jump here)
4:00 pm - 505
6:30 pm - going to retest before feeding around 7pm and try to continue curve til at least midnight before retiring for night
7:00 am - will retest to see where he is at

I would try to go the full 24 hours, but with the holiday tomorrow and a hubby who doesn't really want to get up in the middle of the night to "test the cat", I think this is the best we can do this week. I am planning to call his numbers into the vet to see what she says about his dose, but I am wondering what others think from experience as well. Should we just jump to 3U or try 2.5U next. It seems like he peaking early, and then just skyrocketing back up. The last .5U change doesn't seem to be doing much, though I am at least happy to see a drop below 400 at this point and show some signs of dropping. Was a little worried he might be insulin resistant at first. I'm also sure the little dude is got some ketones at this point with numbers like this, though he doesn't seem to be showing an major effects other than drinking like crazy and peeing.

He is currently being fed 3 oz of wet twice a day (low carb Friskies off the Binky charts), and then a 1/2 of free feeding on the Blue Buff Wilderness (grain free). Asked my vet if she wanted to drop the dry food, but at this time she was just interested in getting numbers before changing foods. I also have two others cats that eat the same (one loves wet, and the other turns his little nose up). Meaning finding a happy medium that all 3 can live with.
 
The blue buffalo dry food is probably the source of your problems honestly. Your specific variety isn't on Janet & Binky's food charts, but the varieties they do have range between 24-47 % carbs. If you really need to free feed dry food, I would recommend Innova EVO Cat & Kitten (8% of calories from carbs) or Wellness CORE (11% calories from carbs). Diabetics just don't process carbs well and that can spike numbers up and lead to high insulin doses. I think you need to work on changing the food first, because otherwise you will be beating your head against a wall with the insulin dosing. Plus, if you do get under control and then change food, then you will risk hypoglycemia because carb content can drastically change the amount of insulin needed.
 
Where did they show you to inject the insulin. Maisey made no progress initially, because the vet tech showed me the wrong place to inject - the ruff. Once I started shooting around her shoulders, we had pretty dramatic difference in how ProZinc worked. I leave the wellness Core out for my grazers figuring if Maisey were tempted it wouldn't be too bad. It doesn't seem to affect her numbers at all.
 
The original vet we went to who gave the initial diagnosis and started the Humulin with did the same thing. Showed me in the ruff. After doing a lot of reading on this site and watching several Youtube videos, I caught on pretty fast that the shoulders, flank, or stomach were better. As a nurse, it just made sense, too. George use to be overweight too, so he has alot of extra skin around the scruff too, which just seems to me like it would add to the problem. I try to usually aim for his side down towards the stomach when he is willing and lays down for me. Some mornings when he less compliant I usually give it right behind the shoulder blades right after he eats.

Kelly - I just tried to go looking for carb content on the Blue Buff Wilderness (not to be confused with the regular) and while it is 47% protein, I can't find definitive % about carbs. Seems to be a highly guarded secret. They don't sell the EVO anywhere in my area, but did find that our local Petco carries the Wellness CORE. Just bought a new bag of Wilderness yesterday, so I am just going to return it and try the Wellness. They cost the same and hopefully all the cats will be fine with it. I guess we'll give that a go for a week and keep the insulin dose the same. Then next week, we will try another curve and see what happens. I should also be able to see some difference in his evening numbers before feeding time. I would love to test more often like others do, but it just is not possible during the week with our rather crazy schedules. I just keep telling myself we will take baby steps each week and keep trying to we find the right combo.
 
Just an update on his numbers as we head into the 2nd shot time and try to get something.

4:00 pm - 505
6:15 pm - 442
6:30 pm - Fed 3 oz of wet food/ Removed Blue Wilderness for the night (Going to start Wellness CORE tomorrow)
6:45 pm - Shot- 3U ProZinc
8:40 pm - 505
 
Being a long weekend, the board may not be too busy, so I felt that I should just pop in to be sure that you are prepared to watch for and treat hypoglycemia. Changing food from hi carb dry to wet or lower carb has resulted in a dramatic drop for others on this board. I don't use your insulin so can't offer any thoughts on dose or pattern. I would say though that if you are the least bit concerned about ketones, testing for them in urine would be a good idea. The strips are pretty easily available. It seems that DKA progresses very quickly in some cats.

Have you looked at any of the spreadsheets of other Pro Zinc users in the insulin support group section of this board? It might give you some ideas about how cats normally react to the insulin.
 
The Blue Buff Wilderness dry is already a high protein food that is grain free, so it is fairly low carb already. I just could not find the exact numbers, so we are trying another option in the Wellness CORE for piece of mind. I am hoping this will help and do have knowledge already about how to treat hypoglycemia if it comes up. Thank you for concern though. He has also been on low carb wet for quite awhile now too.
 
Just wanted to say hello and welcome. I'm sure you're already figuring out that you've come to the best place for help with your diabetic cat. I knew next to nothing at first and was overwhelmed and stressed. This forum and following the great advice/protocol really helped me turn my cat Max's health around.

Every cat is different and you have to do what works for you but just wanted to add my experience with diet. Max was diagnosed in early January. For the next 4 weeks, he made little progress, testing in the 450's week after week on more and more insulin (PZI). He was on 3 units PZI twice a day and the vet had just upped that to 4 units cause his #'s were still so high. After reading about diet on FDMB, I changed Max to only low carb wet food. I had been feeding him a mix of Science Diet M/D dry recommended by my vet (low in carbs 13% but not nearly as low as some of the wet foods) and low carb wet. Max really turned a corner when I changed to only the low carb wet diet and his insulin dose dropped by a lot (that's why someone mentioned testing is important if you do change diet). Some cats are more sensitive to carbs than others and turns out Max is pretty sensitive. Once I got his carbs way down, 2-4% range, he started doing much better. Max was a die hard dry food eater and took some persuading to eat the wet food but really likes it now. Just a thought on something to try.

I've heard that Humulin N can be a bit of a roller coaster, and I bet you're glad to be off that coaster. I would recommend only increasing the dose by .5u at a time so you don't miss the "ideal" dose. Although the #'s aren't where you want them yet, it's good that you are seeing some action with the insulin.
 
Welcome to our little group of people who are dealing with the same issues you have, someone is here 24/7. A normal curve is every two hours from the first shot to the last. When you post your #'s before you set up a spreadsheet .... 1st.# AMPS .... all #'s after that are referred to as the number of hours from the shot, so 2 hours from shot would be +2 .... 4 hours from shot +4.

I think pzi is a very good, steady insulin and you should notice fewer spikes and dips in time. Also I would be checking for ketones with high numbers, you can get ketostix at drugstore and put under urine.
Only by keeping a record of his numbers will you be able to figure out if 3u is too high or too low. I don't think you'll be able to get a true reading until the dry is out of the equation .... to a diabetic cat it keeps the #'s high, regardless of the carbs in the dry. Your looking for the 78% water in the can and you should also try adding water to the wet.

Good luck but as you can see there are many variables, only by testing can you ever figure it out.
Nancy and Payne ....
 
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