? Reduce tonight? 4/24 - Chloe - AMPS = 88, +4 = 28, +4.5 = 40, +6 = 63, +8 = 119, PMPS 301, +3=225

Status
Not open for further replies.
Chloe'sMom (GA)

Chloe'sMom (GA)

Member Since 2015
Link to yesterday's thread: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...47-11-25-55-pmps-59-1-69.194551/#post-2176893

So, Chloe is low - really low and I'm not home. My hubby is home and tested her, but now has to return to work. I can't get home for another 1.25 hours to test, but will be there for at least an hour.

I'm nervous with her being this low, but she's not displaying any signs of hypoglycemia (temporary blindness, etc). In fact, hubby thought the strips were bad and tested again.

I'm not sure whether to have him administer honey on her food, but added some "gravy" from her low carb canned food which usually helps.

He has to get back, so unfortunately, I won't be able to check her for another hour or so.
 
Did your DH leave some food for Chloe to graze on until you get home to test her?

I didn't see a link to yesterday in your post above.

ETA: Yes, do a reduction tonight because of that 28. You need to keep her safe.
 
Get hubby to add a liberal amount of honey or karo or syrup. Can he test again before he leaves?
 
@Wendy&Neko He's already left. He added the gravy and said she was acting completely normal. He suspects the strips are bad, but I'm not sure. She's been super low though and not shown ANY of the signs of a hypoglycemic cat, so who knows. I have a new box I will be using when I get home to see. I'll be there in a little over 45 mins.
 
I'm home now and she's moving upward. I tested 2 different glucose strip packs and they were 3#s off, so I think they are accurate. I will monitor her for a bit. She was just napping. Seems ok, just annoyed from the pokes. Hubby isn't as good at getting it and usually has to poke her 2-3x to get a good read. I'm hoping my sister can do it better. ;)

If all think I should go with the reduce, then I can drop down to .5u tonight.
 
I’m really glad Chloe is okay, she absolutely needs a reduction. :nailbiting: If she has numbers that low and you or DH aren’t able to monitor her and keep her safe, you have to consider letting her run higher than the range you are keeping her in. Many people would see a 28 and rush their cat to the vet, it’s a very low number, at the least, it’s a sign to get a lot of sugar in to her and stay with her until the numbers come up and stay up. Last night you had a very low preshot, and it’s a safe number to shoot, if you are able to monitor. Shooting a 59 and then letting her be for 7 hours is just not responsible or safe, how low did she go last night? If you don’t know, shooting numbers in the 50s isn’t a great option for you to choose. Set an alarm for the middle of the night to make sure she hasn’t dropped, her lowest point in the cycle is not +1 or +10, judging by your day cycle tests, it looks to be in the +4 to +7 range, but that is just a guess. If Chloe has been diabetic since 2013, you should know her patterns and where her onset and nadirs are and if you don’t, you need to find out or consider a method of regulation (like SLGS) that doesn’t have the same risks and responsibilities that come with keeping her in those low greens.

You have 2 very serious extremes you need to mind when giving insulin: hypoglycemia (numbers too low) and DKA (not enough insulin, infection, not enough food, often associated with higher numbers). Chloe has already had DKA twice, which means you have to be extra cautious, it sounds like she may have had symptomatic hypoglycemia before as well? These are very serious things and both can kill or cause permanent damage. Things happen and we can’t always control them, but having these things happen already to Chloe should instill a sense of fear and prepare you better to prevent them from happening again. Like always leaving high carb food out if you are not able to monitor her and her preshot was low, like testing for ketones, regularly and frequently. Setting alarms to make sure she is safe during the night.

I wouldn’t worry about getting her regulated when you are gone, I would worry first and foremost about keeping her safe now, when you go away, and in the future. Chloe is counting on you to do that because she cannot do it by herself. That likely means letting her numbers go higher unless you can make the commitment to monitor her more closely. I really hope you’ll consider what I’ve written here and think about what you can do differently. We all would like to help you and Chloe, but we can only suggest strategies that we know to work and you have to do most of the heavy lifting.
 
@Stacy & Asia - I appreciate your insight and your suggestions, but I have to be honest and say that I feel like a little child that was just reprimanded. I come here for advice as things have changed recently, not to be chided because I'm not getting up at 3am to test Chloe when I have to be up for work a few hours later (for example). Her body is changing and her needs have changed, and apparently her insulin needs have as well. As a kitty mama, my interest is definitely in keeping her safe and doing all I can to encourage that upward movement and progression of maybe, just maybe reaching the days of OTJ. But, I'm also 50 other things: A wife, a business owner, an employee, and so on. Believe me, in 2015 when my Chloe looked the worst she ever has (I can barely stand to look at the photos), and I had her vet her and an ER vet tell me that the most humane thing I could do is put her down, I chose to keep fighting. I don't feel like a message board completely conveys or displays my grit and determination to keep her safe and alive. We've put in the work, believe me. I love this little blessing so much and dread the day that I have to let her go.

While I'm already nervous leaving for a trip that I've longed dreamt and planned for and while I'm busy getting ready for the trip, I'm sorry, but this is just added stress that I don't really need. I'm in travel as a career and have in the last several months and couple of years turned down many trainings, opportunities, invitations, and even personal vacations that my husband has begged for in order to keep her out of a boarded situation and in our home and safe. My goal is always to keep her safe.

I will take your suggestions and considerations to heart - believe me. I will definitely drop her dose tonight and try to monitor her mid-cycle if I can. I appreciate your response and your insight and while I was nervous at shooting her at 59 last night, I was doing the best I could. After having the night before last be one of worry and broken up sleep to obtain those numbers, I desperately needed rest. I'm not one to lazily think that others are responsible for her, or will do the work for me, and I hardly think that I won't do most of the "heavy lifting". Of course I do - my husband too - and in 2015/16, there were many nights I was on here every hour of the night chatting and looking for help. There was a friend on the west coast helping me and then handing me off to a friend in Australia to help me get her through that horrible DKA. But, my work has increased dramatically since that time, so the juggling act is a bit more difficult.

Again, I appreciate your insight and I hope my response was respectful. If it wasn't, honestly, it was not my intention. But, I felt like some of the things you mentioned warranted a reply.
 
It’s hard to convey tone in writing, unfortunately, misunderstandings happen all the time that way. It is certainly not my intent to treat you like a child and I’m sorry if it came off that way. I wanted to clarify DKA and hypoglycemia because you seemed confused over the two in a previous post. I’m just asking you, one adult to another, to consider doing a few things differently because my heart leaped into my throat at seeing her low number and knowing she was home alone. Bad things happen to cats sometimes, even with the best of care and all of the knowledge in the world, but we have a lot of safety measures we can put in place to improve the odds and they aren’t often difficult, time consuming or expensive to implement.

There are guidelines for keeping a cat in tight regulation and paramount to that is being able to keep your cat safe, particularly from numbers too low. If it’s not something that fits with your lifestyle a good majority of the time, we have alternate options to managing FD (SLGS) that won’t regulate them as tightly, but will keep them safer. We all wear many hats and have responsibilities, and when something else conflicts with keeping our FD cat safe, we have to make difficult choices that we hope will do the least harm: skip shots, leave high carb food out, cancel plans, drag our exhausted bodies out of bed for a quick check, etc. There is an every day responsibility with tight regulation but things happen and we need contingency plans for the times when we can’t make it work. Like vacation dosing, nobody is excited to run their cat’s higher while they are away, but it’s usually a better option than leaving the responsibility of tight regulation to someone else, even a vet.

I’m not doubting your love of Chloe or your past commitment to her FD, but her recent history (shooting blind, only preshot tests, etc.) suggests you haven’t been on top of things as much as perhaps you once were. Life gets in the way, I get that, but you can’t control FD from afar (heck you can’t even control it sometimes with 24/7 care, ask me how I know :p). Maybe now you have some more time to get back at it, and that’s great, but FD management is a big responsibility anyway and tight regulation is an even more extreme demand of your time and money, not everyone is able to commit to it. You have to ask yourself questions like if you’re too exhausted and need sleep, is it a good idea to shoot low, skip, or reduce the dose for safety? That’s really my only point is to be realistic with what you are able to do and please make some tough choices when you know you don’t have all the resources to keep her safe.
 
I think Chloe's been hinting at reductions for quite a few cycles now and with less testing ability, the lows have gotten missed.
If we don't see the lows, can't assume they happen.
looking at her chart, I would tell you that all of her recent "highs" ( the pink, the red, the yellow) were bounces after very likely hitting those 20's and 30's. That's the pattern I see on the chart. This is hindsight.... which as every one knows, is always 20/20.

I'd have to add that it's amazing that you make it thru the night without having to get up at least once to pee.
I wish I had that ability. :p
Even when I quit drinking any liquids before 7 pm, I have to get up somewhere in the night.

I'm glad you caught this low number today because since she's been hinting without a strong indicator that she needed less insulin until yesterday, she could have been in danger today.
Congratulations on another reducie.

I think you might seriously consider the SLGS method because she's on a mission and she could earn those reductions with less drama.

Then also when it's time to go on your trip, you'll need to lower even more to give your sister a safety margin of error.
 
@Stacy & Asia -

I agree regarding tone. I hate that about textual writing vs a phone convo. Thank you for your reply, that was much better explained and received! ;)

Yes, I had become lax, rather comfortable, as we had her on an even keel and she wasn't getting sick, she wasn't dropping and she was much happier. We could leave her for longer periods of time and she may run slightly higher, but she was better regulated, etc. It was recently when I saw her getting sick more frequently, that I knew something was wrong. So, now we're back to figuring it out! She has decided that being regulated wasn't fun anymore and that she needs to liven things up a little. Ha.

Yes, the number earlier did worry me too. Oddly, she didn't have any of those typical hypo symptoms (and yes, she's had the temporary blindness/trouble seeing in the past) or lethargy she usually demonstrates, so hubby thought maybe the strips were bad. She did however have an increased appetite and has since been doing great. I still have the hopes she will someday go OTJ, but I'm just not sure that is possible. I worked so hard to get her OTJ, but we just never were able to get lower than .25-.5u.

So, now I'm doing the guessing game of where to settle on her insulin dosing and we're working to figure it out. Your insights and valuable help do not go unnoticed, so again, thank you. I'll definitely drop the dose to .5u tonight barring any other craziness and see where she goes.
 
rhiannon and shadow (GA) said:
I think Chloe's been hinting at reductions for quite a few cycles now and with less testing ability, the lows have gotten missed.
If we don't see the lows, can't assume they happen.
looking at her chart, I would tell you that all of her recent "highs" ( the pink, the red, the yellow) were bounces after very likely hitting those 20's and 30's. That's the pattern I see on the chart. This is hindsight.... which as every one knows, is always 20/20.

I'd have to add that it's amazing that you make it thru the night without having to get up at least once to pee.
I wish I had that ability. :p
Even when I quit drinking any liquids before 7 pm, I have to get up somewhere in the night.

I'm glad you caught this low number today because since she's been hinting without a strong indicator that she needed less insulin until yesterday, she could have been in danger today.
Congratulations on another reducie.

I think you might seriously consider the SLGS method because she's on a mission and she could earn those reductions with less drama.

Then also when it's time to go on your trip, you'll need to lower even more to give your sister a safety margin of error.
Click to expand...


Ok, now that just scares the :spam: out of me to change her methods! Yikes! I'll need to read up on that one and see, but I worry about making a big change like that before leaving. :o Thanks for your input @rhiannon and shadow (GA)!

I've already shared her chart with my sister and she's SUCH a good cat mama. I know she will do great - I just hope that Chloe cooperates and doesn't be too feisty with her! :rolleyes:
 
I get how nervous you are. Please do read SLGS if only to use until you get back from vacation. It require less testing and you reduce at 80 or 90. My heart dropped too when I saw that 28 and your husband needing to leave. People do it but honestly if I had been working I never would have attempted TR with Max as I live alone. Lots to think about but nothing has to be decided today. I would weigh your options so whatever you decide you have as many days as possible to tweek the dose. Congrats on the reduction.
 
tiffmaxee said:
I get how nervous you are. Please do read SLGS if only to use until you get back from vacation. It require less testing and you reduce at 80 or 90. My heart dropped too when I saw that 28 and your husband needing to leave. People do it but honestly if I had been working I never would have attempted TR with Max as I live alone. Lots to think about but nothing has to be decided today. I would weigh your options so whatever you decide you have as many days as possible to tweek the dose. Congrats on the reduction.
Click to expand...

Believe me, I panicked too. I wish he could've stayed, but thankfully, I was able to leave and get home an hour later. I'm thankful for that flexibility today. I'll definitely look at the SLGS tonight. So much to do and time is running out. Eeek! :eek:
 
Ok, so I'm getting this back straight in my mind! :joyful: I was thinking the bounce was due to the super low #s from earlier. So, I think her nadir is between +4 -+6. I'm going to TRY and get up at midnight (+4) and get a reading.
 
giphy.gif
 
:p:p:p;););) She's keeping me company here as I take care of some things, lol! I have my laptop out and open for alerts/and updates. She's asleep and cozy, lol! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
She's heading back down. I think she is out of the danger zone. I might be able to get a +4 before zonking out, but I'm getting pretty tired too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top