Recently diagnosed

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MaxOliver

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Our Oliver was recently diagnosed with diabetes on 3/25/2012 and I have been reading a lot of information on switching from a dry diet to a caned food diet. My concern is how to regulate his insulin needs during the process of switching food, (how many units to give as his blood glucose drops per mg/dl.) Right now the vet has me giving him (ProZinc) 4 units at 7AM and 4 units at 7PM. I just started testing his blood glucose level on 03/31/2012 and his first reading prior to his insulin shot was 413 at 7 pm, 4 hrs later I rechecked and it was 124. At 7am the next morning it was 574 prior to his insulin shot.

Two questions: Are these swings normal in the beginning and will they level out, and as I switch to caned cat food is there a flow chart or guidelines that says to give this much insulin for this blood glucose level.
 
Hi and welcome to FDMB!

Just a quick observation on the numbers you listed. He was at 413, you gave him 4 units, and four hours later he was at 124. Then he went up to 574 by the time it was time for his next shot?

That indicates that the dose was too high. He probably went lower than 124 in the following couple of hours. That causes their body to go into a self-preservation mode, and causes their livers to dump sugar into their bloodstream to force the blood glucose numbers higher. When that happens, you usually see a high reading at the next shot test.

I am not sure what logic your vet used to set a starting dose of 4 units, but that is abnormally high at the beginning of treatment. Most kitties start at 1 unit twice a day unless there are other conditions present that would make a higher dose logical. Do you know if the blood work showed any other numbers that were out of the "normal" range?

You are home testing, which is terrific! Most people aren't when they first come on the board. That is the best thing you can do to ensure Oliver's safety.

You will see an improvement in his numbers by switching to low carb canned food. Dry food is high in carbs, and carbs are bad for diabetic kitties. BUT, with the dose you are on, if you switch to low carb right now without a big decrease in dosage, it will be extremely dangerous for Oliver. Some people see an overall reduction in numbers of 100 points or more just from switching food. That could cause him to go too low in the middle of his 12 hour cycles, and result in hypoglycemia.

So, first thing you want to do is find out from the vet how they determined a starting dose of 4 units. Next, you'll want to think about dropping that dose down, and switching to all canned low carb food. And you will want to keep testing his BG. You have to test before any shot to make sure the number is safe to shoot insulin into. And testing around 4-6 hours later will show you how much the dose does in terms of pushing his numbers down.

Unfortunately, there aren't any hard and fast rules about what dose to shoot into what numbers. Every Cat Is Different (ECID) is how we put it. Some cats require 2 units, and some cats require .25 units. Testing is the only way to determine how much Oliver will need going forward. Most people do keep track of all their tests and dose using a googledocs spreadsheet, and I am sure one of them will fix you up with instructions on how you can set one up.

I gotta get ready for work, so I'll let others tell you more... glad you found us! This is the best place ever for diabetic kitties and their "beans".

Carl in SC
 
Thanks for all of the information. I’m really new to all of this, even right down to posting on a message board.

One thing I did not mention was that I also checked his BG two hours after the 124 reading because I was worried about it going to low and it had increased to 293.

I also was concerned after doing some reading on the FDMB that starting out at 4 units may be to high. I picked him up from the vet on Friday at closing time and will not be able to talk to the vet until Monday. So I will try to find out what his logic was for starting out so high, I just needed some reassurance that I might be right.

Due to the fact that Oliver hates canned food it won’t be a fast switch over, so I will be able to work it out with the vet on how to go about this. His vet put him on Purina Veterinary diets DM dry food, and after doing some research I now realize there are better options.

One other area of concern is that he has some neuropathy, when I asked the vet what could be done to help this he said that the damage was already done and there was not much I could do. I have been reading about vitamin B12 and need some more insight before I ask the vet about it.

One last thing the vet did mention home testing and said they have a home kit for $200.00. After paying almost $600.00 for this month’s episode with Oliver and nearly this is out of my range. So I have been using the One Touch Ultra, what I need is more info on using a human glucose meter verse the animal meter. The vet said not because they are calibrated differently.

I consider my self to be a pretty strong guy and can always handle anything, but when I heard the news about Oliver I quickly felt lost, helpless and scared. The FDMB has been a big comfort in a very unsure and lost time. So thanks again..

Allen in WV
 
Hi Allen,

There is certainly a lot that can be done about neuropathy, first is getting the bloodsugar down as well as giving Methyl-b12. My Musette had severe neuropathy when I adopted her, she walked flat-footed and was very wobbly in the back end. Her foster dad started her on the Methyl-B12 and then I continued it once I got her and today you would never know there had ever been anything wrong with her legs, she runs, & jumps like any of my other cats.

You can get the Methyl-B12 either online or some health food stores carry it at least in my area, and the nice thing about it is you can't over dose them on it, anything they don't need they will just pee out.

In fact I have a full unopened bottle of it sitting in my medicine cabinet that if you want to PM me your address I can send it to you. I'm not going to need it for Musette so it might as well go to someone that can put it to use. :-D

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Here is the link to help you set up a ss for Oliver http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50130

There is no problem at all using a human meter, nearly everyone here does. Your vet will just need to be reminded that it will read about 30pts lower than the vets meter if he is looking at your numbers.

I can't help you at all with your questions about ProZinc how works (we use Lantus) but that does sound like an awfully high starting dose.

I love it when strong men fall apart over their kitties - it shows that your alright in my book ;-)
 
Welcome Daddybean!
What a great parent you are!
I, like most, use a relion meter from w.mart as the strips are ones I can afford. The vet did NOT want me to test at home at all. It is because of this forum that not only did I start testing, did NOT feed the script foods from the vet (used binky's list from here) and listened to folks that do this 24/7, my
Bean is with me today and is in remission for almost 1 yr.

I have her first new vet appointment since 4/27/11 (when the last and only curve was done), for this Saturday. We will be doing a free consult to go over what I want Beans vet wish list to be.
It is time to recheck blood and look at those teeth. I want to schedule a cleaning as it has been 4 yrs. and bad dental can cause those bg numbers to increase...we do NOT want that!

Bean was on PZI when dx at 1 unit bid, then at that curve, the vet increased to 2 units bid. Because of this forum, I did not. Everyone was saying to increase .25. That is what I did. It worked! Bean and I got a spreadsheet going, got rid of those tiny notes momma was jotting all her infomation on, and still to this day, I get to see all that hard work we did all on one piece of paper. And, now, I can take with us to new vet Saturday....he will have all our information right there. It is just wonderful to have.

You will be a pro at this in no time. From the home testing, dosing, feeding and yes, using this board for questions, advice, and furry support.

Keep up the good work, ask, read and gain...you will soon be giving advice just like the rest of us! :YMHUG:
 
Thanks for all of the encouragement; this forum has been the best (only) support I’ve had fro the last three days.

I really am concerned about dosing 4 units of ProZinc. I’m going to talk to the vet tomorrow; I’m not sure how to go about reducing the units.

This morning at his BG reading was; 325 at 7:00 A.M.
121 at 9:00
201 at 11:00
517 at 3:00
565 at 7:00 P.M.

None of this sounds right to me, but I’m at a loss of what to do.
 
That is what we call an inverse curve, and is a real good tell-tale sign of too much insulin. Unfortunately as far as reducing the dose, I'm not real sure how Prozinc works on that, but you can always post over in the PZI ISG and they can help you work out a plan, as everyone there is using your insulin. I know it is dosed differently from the two insulins I have used with my two, since Prozinc doesn't have to build up a shed like either Lantus or Levemir.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Re: Recently diagnosed and confused

Oliver was diagnosed on 3/25/2012, so I’m still very confused on what I’m doing.

I just have a quick question about today’s BG readings. This mornings reading at 7:00 was 55 mg/dL, so I did not give Oliver any insulin. I had to go to work but I was able to have someone check it at 9:00 and it was 104. By 7: 00 this evening it was 533. My vet wants me to just feed him and give 3 units of ProZinc insulin twice a day. I was afraid with a BG reading of 55 and not being at home that he would drop to low. What dose if any should I have given him. Any suggestions would be helpful.

I have one more question about feeding. My vet wanted me to feed the Purina DM dry; however after all of your help I now know this is not the right thing to do. In order to switch him to canned food (which he will not eat) I came up with the idea of baking the wet food mixed with an egg until it is crunchy. He loves it. When I mentioned this to his vet, she said I was missing the point of feeding the wet food because I was baking out all of the moisture. My point was that he is still getting a low carb food source. Any thoughts on this…..
 
Just want to say wow! and I mean wow! with a 55 reading and a suggestion of 3 units!
Please take a quick look at Beans spreadsheet! omg, I could not imagine giving her that much~sorry makes me angry!
I think that cooking does take some of the moisture, but for transitioning, why not? I am sure you leave down water right?
Do you think you could slowly add water - maybe a bit at a time to increase the wet?
I think the lower carb is also important...perhaps that is why you are getting the lower numbers!
Gooood going on the home testing!
 
Yes, you need to drop that dose down.... not sure why the vet would have you at such a high dose to start. Drop down to 1u as 3u or 4u are doses that most cats never reach! Your poor cat will be bouncing all over the place.

Awesome that you are home testing. Thank goodness you are and caught that 55.... it's scary to think what could have happened if you gave a shot of that high dose without testing.

OK what wet foods have you tried so far? Someone already gave you Dr. Lisa's site link? And Binky's list to find some low carb wet foods to try?

Binky’s Food Lists
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition

Remember that it's worth it to switch to wet low carb because many cats are DIET CONTROLLED and don't need insulin once they are switched off the dry foods.
 
Thanks for the help.

I did see the vet today and she did say if he drops that low to reduce the amount to 1 u or less. It would have been nice to know this sooner. I didn't know what to do so I did nothing; at least this caused no harm.

This morning at 7:00 he was at 102, I was afraid to give him the 3u, and go to work, so I gave him only 1u. It wasn't enough because at the office he was at 254, I didn’t tell her the truth she thinks he had 3u, so now she wants to go back to 4u in the morning and 3u in the evening. (I’ll deal with her later) If he reads that low tomorrow I’m going to trust my instincts and go with 2u.

As far as the food he does get plenty of water, and it is my goal to gradually make it wetter. But for know at least it's canned food.

I did try a lot of the wet foods on bink's list, all of the other cats loved it, but not him.
 
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