Recently Diagnosed and it's not going down!

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IntheUK

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Hi

Sorry but I'm in the UK and hope you don't mind me asking for advice???

Our beautiful Katy whose 12 was diagnosed last month. The first time we took her to the vets her blood was 18.5mmol, he told us not to worry about testing her blood. Caninsulin was started at 1ml morning and night. A week later back we went and it was 25.7mmol,( insulin raised to 2ml) this time he said that she needed hard cat food and is on Hills W/D and normal wetfood (Sheba trays) He also said that we should test her urine and sold us a kit of plastic littertray beads, pipette and siringe. Of course she didn't use the tray that had the litter in and off we went to the vets for her weekly check up, blood was tested and it was 26.6mmol. (insulin raised to 3ml). We brought a human blood monitor but couldn't get blood from her ear. This week her blood was 26.4mmol. We have just finally managed to test her ourselves and her blood was 24.4mmol, she's due insulin in 5 hours (she's currently on 4ml).

She's also been drinking less in the last week, was 350ml, then 200ml and now 100ml daily. But she seems fine in herself and is playing and is far brighter this last week than she has been in a while

Should we take her off the dry food????, im totally confused and scared as we have no kids and shes my baby

Any advice would be appreciated

Many thanks
 
Welcome and good am to ya! Being in the UK is just fine w/ everyone here. You might want to switch from the uk # to us #. I know there is a place on here to do that, just cant remember where.
You will find all sort of information, advice and support right here.
Hang around, keep posting and reading.
BTW... soooo glad you are home testing. I promise it will become easier to get the blood. The ears will 'learn' to bleed. Are you warming the ear before trying to poke? That helps 100%. Also, those low/no carb treats might help Katy know when test time, is treat time.
Also, some neosporin w/ pain ointment - small bit before testing helps as well. We also recommend that you apply a small amount of pressure to the test spot afterwards to help with bruising.

Glad you found us, this is the BEST place to be if you have a diabetic kitty!

Furry paw hugs to you and Katy! :YMHUG:
 
Welcome, Katy and (What shall we call you?) -

We have people from all over on the forum. Glad you got a glucometer and are starting to home-test. When our 10-year old, Hershey, was diagnosed in Nov, 2011 and started ProZinc in Jan, 2012 - my husband did all of the testing and shooting because I was afraid of hurting him or messing something up. Now, 6 weeks later, I test at least half the time and usually get him to bleed first poke. So, I can attest that it DOES get easier! We give him his shots while he's eating and he's usually completely unaware we're in the world!! :smile:

You asked about dry food. Most of us believe the dry food needs to be thrown out and feed wet food (<10% carbs) using Binky's list. Can't remember, right off, how to give you that link, but you can find it through the search bar up top.

As far as checking for ketones, I've heard people say they do it all different ways. Some people use a dedicated litterbox with aquarium gravel (so it doesn't absorb the urine), some suggesting putting a spoon under kitty to catch the urine for testing, and other ways that don't come to mind right off. Hershey is private about his bathroom activities, so it took us a couple of days to finally catch him in the litterbox. Now, it doesn't phase him at all. We just lift his tail and place the strip in the stream.

I know this can be a scary and overwhelming time, but you've found a priceless resource here!! I'd advise you to spend as much time as you can reading the information and threads here and asking lots and lots and LOTS of questions. :-D

Again, WELCOME!!

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
IntheUK said:
Hi

Sorry but I'm in the UK and hope you don't mind me asking for advice???

Our beautiful Katy whose 12 was diagnosed last month. The first time we took her to the vets her blood was 18.5mmol, he told us not to worry about testing her blood. Caninsulin was started at 1ml morning and night. A week later back we went and it was 25.7mmol,( insulin raised to 2ml) this time he said that she needed hard cat food and is on Hills W/D and normal wetfood (Sheba trays) He also said that we should test her urine and sold us a kit of plastic littertray beads, pipette and siringe. Of course she didn't use the tray that had the litter in and off we went to the vets for her weekly check up, blood was tested and it was 26.6mmol. (insulin raised to 3ml). We brought a human blood monitor but couldn't get blood from her ear. This week her blood was 26.4mmol. We have just finally managed to test her ourselves and her blood was 24.4mmol, she's due insulin in 5 hours (she's currently on 4ml).

She's also been drinking less in the last week, was 350ml, then 200ml and now 100ml daily. But she seems fine in herself and is playing and is far brighter this last week than she has been in a while

Should we take her off the dry food????, im totally confused and scared as we have no kids and shes my baby

Any advice would be appreciated

Many thanks
Click to expand...

Welcome to the site!

I guess the first thing I would say is that you should stop the dry food; it's not good for diabetics, and any vet who says a cat 'needs dry food', especially a diabetic does not know much about feline diabetes.
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition

Of course you should be home testing. If you had a child, you would NEVER give insulin shots without first testing the BG... ask any human diabetic and they will think you are nuts to say they dont' need to test their BG. You want to know how well your Katy is doing, and if possible, once she is eating a good low carb wet diet, she may not need insulin! Without testing at home, you will never know. The numbers at the vet are most often off because of stress, and the numbers you get at home will be true because Katy is in her own home and relaxed.

I don't know which blood glucose meters are available to you, but Bayer and OneTouch are a couple that I like. The FreeStyle meters have been found to give false readings for cats, so that's about the only one to be avoided. What meter did you get for testing? Keep at the testing because it will let you know how Katy is really doing on the insulin.
Testing on cat’s ear

There is a conversion you can use:
BG Conversion Calculator
18.5 and 25.7 equate to 333 and 463

Now, Caninsulin is not the most long lasting insulin, but I know it's hard for people to convince vets in your area to use other insulins. You may be fine with the Caninsulin, but if not, you may want to talk to your vet about using Lantus or Levemir. For now though, you can see how the Caninsulin works for Katy.

I would not raise that dose any higher until you are testing and getting some numbers.... also, when you stop feeding that dry food, you will likely need to give her less insulin.

some info on insulins and their lasting :
Duration is the length of time an insulin continues to lower blood glucose.
The four duration categories are:
* Rapid-acting or Fast-acting insulin begins to work shortly after injection, peaks in about 1 hour, and continue to work for 2 to 4 hours.
* Regular or Short-acting insulin reaches the bloodstream 30 minutes to an hour after injection, peaks anywhere from 2 to 3 hours after injection, and is effective for approximately 6-8 hours.
* Intermediate-acting insulin generally reaches the bloodstream about 1-2 hours after injection, and is effective for about 8 to 12 hours.
* Long-acting insulin generally reaches the bloodstream about 2 to 4 hours after injection, peaks 4 to 8 hours later and is effective for about 12 to 18 hours.

Note that an insulin that is long-acting in humans may be intermediate-acting in cats. The duration classes used here are for humans and usually match those in dogs -- their classifications in cats are somewhat shorter due to cats' faster metabolism.


Intermediate insulins (Lente) are insulins like Vetsulin (Caninsulin) and NPH, some of the human insulins have N in thier name (Humalin N) although some vets are still prescribing them they are becoming less used. Espcially since Vetsulin has been taken off the market in many countries. The more successes with long acting insulins have encouraged many vets to avoid these once typical insulins. Many are however still used with good results in dogs with diabetes (dogs have a metabolism more like humans and these insulins work much longer for them) the animal approved insulin (Vetsulin, in Europe/Canada sold as Caninsulin) was made primarily for dogs.
Long-acting insulins are the synthetic analogs such as Lantus and Levemir. PZI and Prozinc are simular to these however thier duration is often somewhat shorter putting them "in between" intermediate and long-acting. Several other long acting insulins are no longer manufactured (Ultratard, Humalin U)

Caninsulin does not usually last the full 12hours, so it would be important to have you testing Katy and see how long it's lasting for her.

NOTE: Increasing the dose will do nothing to make the insulin last longer. The higher dose will only force her numbers much lower but for the same 8 or 10hours, and then her numbers will rise again.

ETA: Dr. Lisa's food link
 
Vyktor was started on caninsulin which, having done my research, I wasn't happy about. As I was home testing I was able to take the results back in to the vet who then had to agree that the insulin wasn't working well and agreed to prescribe us lantus-glargine with which we are having great results. Three roller coaster ride months later Vyktor is fully regulated and perhaps heading for remission in the very near future.

Caninsulin gave Vyktor a big drop but started wearing off around 4 hours after his shot. Consequently he was still spending an awful lot of time in organ damaging high numbers and was never going to get lower pre shot numbers. I believe this is the reaction in most cats so it would be great if you could persevere with the home testing and see for yourselves what is happening in Katy.

As for your vet telling you not to bother home testing - I do not understand this attitude at all - unless he just wants to make more money from you by doing all the tests himself! Home testing is a vital part of managing your cat safely when on insulin. I am also very concerned that, if he doesn't want you home testing, he hasn't at least taken a curve (testing every two hours between doses) himself to see how low the insulin you are already giving Katy is taking her. She could be going to dangerously low levels while the insulin is working, the vet will not see that just by taking a single test or from pre shot numbers and should not be increasing the insulin dose on this basis.

To get the American numbers you just have to multiply your meter's reading by 18. There is also a ss that will convert for you automatically (you enter Katy's numbers as per your meter in the world page) and utilising that spreadsheet will help you be able to better visualise what is happening with Katy and it will help people here be able to help you and Katy better if you start recording Katy's numbers in that. Here is the link: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50130

I agree you should ditch the dry food and feed Katy on only LC canned food. HOWEVER, I would not make the diet change until you are home testing consistently as the change in diet alone can make a cats blood glucose numbers drop substantially and you don't want to be surprised by a hypo. Some cats end not needing insulin at all after a change in diet to LC wet food.

There are plenty of UK members on the board that should be able to advise you about which foods are LC in your end of the world if Binky's List doesn't cater for you (it's no help to me in Australia). If you need to find out about that just post a new thread with something like 'UK LC food advice required' in the subject line.
 
Hi and welcome - you are in the right place to get help and support. There aren't actually many of us UK members on the board these days so you may have to get used to "speaking" in US numbers, unfortunately.

The others have given you excellent advice and there's not a lot I can add. Vets do tend to prescribe dry "diet" food but it really isn't the best for a diabetic cat (dry isn't the best for any cat!). You are much better off feeding standard supermarket varieties such as Whiskas or Felix in jelly (not the gravy ones, which are higher in carbs. Check the Sheba trays to make sure they are jelly varieties, not gravy ones). These brands are available everywhere so you shouldn't have any problems. It's true that you shouldn't take Katy off dry food until you are home-testing, as her BGs might drop significantly due to that diet change alone, but the numbers you are getting don't suggest that she is likely to hypo. However, it's better to be on the safe side, at this stage especially, so if I were you I'd carry on with what she has now but maybe give her a little less dry and more wet food.

As for the vet saying not to worry about home-testing - they nearly all say that for no particular reason, but personally I think it's because they don't trust us not to be confused by the numbers we get and how they can fluctuate depending on when food and/or insulin was given. If you spend enough time here reading you will start to understand this and you can talk to the vet about it and then he might support you in doing it. Really, it's important that you do, so even if he says not to, do it anyway! It's not a crime, you are doing no harm, you are simply equipping yourself with vital information.

I know it all seems strange and scary at the moment, but like so many things, FD is a learning curve and the more time you spend here and start to understand it, the more relaxed you will feel.

Good luck!

Diana (in Surrey)
 
Hi All


Thank you so much for your replies. Our Katy is very fussy (the ironic thing is that when she was a kitten i purposely brought her various makes of food as i didnt want her to be fussy) when it comes to wet food, and it took her 8ish years to eat dry food. Thankfully she doesnt like Gravy pouches and wont eat the 2nd half of a tin (like whiskers) so cant go down that avenue. She also as we have noticed recently prefers terrine type foods to jelly where she licks the jelly and eats the meat last .....

This morning she had drunk 200mls of water and when we tested her bloods about 30 mins ago she was down to 19.5 (insulin is due in 1.45 mins) i havent tried taking her blood yet and she really doesnt like it being done but practice makes perfect.

Our vet gave us 5 needles free !!! But how do the rest of you prick the ear and if your in the UK can you tell me where to get them from. We did get a finger pricker tthinggy in with the blood monitor but dont think she'll like that at all.
 
Try clicking a pen near her ear, if she's not fussed about the noise chances are she won't be fussed about you using the lancing device. The edge of their ear where you test is not sensitive so it really doesn't hurt.

For supplies you can probably get everything you need from your local chemist/pharmacy but if you're having trouble you could try contacting the diabetes association in your region - there's bound to be one.

Or PM the UK person that responded further up and ask them directly.

ETA: to PM someone click on their user name and then click on send PM on the page that clicking on their user name takes you to
 
If Katy doesn't like the clicking sound of the lancet device, you could try using the lancet "freehand", ie without actually putting it in the pen. It's a bit of a knack but once you've got it, it does make life easier for you both.
The important thing is to make sure her ear is warm before you try to take blood. There are various ways you can do this but I found the simplest was to run a small piece of cotton wool under the hot tap, squeeze it dry, and hold that by the ear with one hand. Then take the lancet with your other hand and make a quick stab at the very edge of the ear (where the vein is) - if you do this while Katy is eating, perhaps, she will be distracted and after a while not notice it at all. The advantage of using the cotton wool is that you can then hold it to the ear where you pricked it for a minute, so stop any further bleeding. It may sound a bit tricky and we have all gone through the difficulties and scariness of it, but honestly - it is a knack and you can do it!
As for supplies - you say you have a monitor and that should have come with the lancet device and a few lancets, so presumably you now just need extra lancets. The best (cheapest) place to get them is ebay - do a search for the name of your monitor and then lancets, and see what comes up. Let me know if you get stuck.

ETA: eg if you have a One Touch Ultra, you would look for 'One Touch Ultra lancets' and get this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksi ... s&_sacat=0


Good luck
Diana
 
Hullo from Hastings

I'm a little late to join in as we have been away for the weekend.

Most of the info has been given to you so just a few points.
Caninsulin did nothing for Bushey Boy his numbers were in the 35 range (dangerously high) so I tried the old bottle of Insuvet PZI(beef) and his numbers began to fall
I understand that this is no longer made, but ask you vet about a PZI preferably beef as these are nearest bto a cats normal insulin (CANINsulin is ideal for canines i.e. dogs!)

THE OTHER THING IS:-
Always keep powdered glucose in the house. In case of HYPO, rub it on the gums or syringe it into the mouth..... acts like magic.

Hope this helps.
Let us know how you are getting on
Mary(UK)
 
Hi how is your kitty getting on? I live in Portsmouth on the south coast and my beautiful boy was diagnosed at the end of february and he was started on 1 unit twice a day but he was re-admitted last weekend as he'd lost alot of weight and was dehydrated and his readings were off the scale. We've upped his dose to 2 units a day now. He was a big boy at just over 7.2kg but is now only just over 6kg. I am constantly worried that he not drinking enough, then worry he drinking too much. I am in a constant state of turmoil and just hope there is light at the end of the tunnel as am sure he is fed up with me constantly watching him and checking to see if he dehydrated! Does this get easier?
 
Yes, it does get easier.
If it didnt, we would never have welcomed Katy into our home after Jazz Cat went to the Bridge.

And we wouldnt have taken in Bushey Boy when Katy went to the Bridge.

As I said earlier, we were able to treat with Insuvet PZI(beef) but it seems to be unobtainable, so I would ask for a PZI rather than Caninsulin. Some people find Caninsulin good, but it had no effect on Bushey.

We found that removing ALL dry food from the diet helped enormously. Most dry is 50% carbohydrate whilst canned food is about 5% and did you ever see your cat hunting for an ear of corn?
If you need to talk send me a PM and I will send our number. We are in Hastings, just up the coast from you

Mary
 
Hello

And helllo to my fellow Southerns xxx. Been both to Hastings (actually last went last summer to the wine and food festival and hastings changed since the last time l went about 10 years ago) and Portsmouth (though it was when i was small and went to see the Mary Rose, Victory, Return of the Jedi and a funfair quite nearby!!!)

Anyway back to Katy...We have gone down..and up and down but were not very regulated at the moment. Have been testing her around 3 times a day and have been as low as 5.1 (halfway through her day - insulin is at 7am/pm).And as high as 30 last night (6.30pm) Shes on 3ml but today as she was so high last night my hubby gave her 2ml this morning though i htink it was because she was a litte piggy yeaterday and ate more biscuits than she would normally eat during the day. See seems so much happier at night though can be alittle strange during the day ( i htink we may reduce the inculin to 2 1/2ml during the day and keep her on 3 of a night (as she eats less at night).

Were pricking her ear with needles brought from the vet as we have no luck with her click, (we have Fastclick needles though i got some multiclicks from ebay - are they any better????)

Alittle worried earlier though as when i pricked her ear alot of blood came out but having said this she had been asleep and had been laying on it so lm presuming it was just cause it was hot.

xx
 
It sounds like you are beginning to see more of a pattern now, largely because you are testing Katy's blood and can see how she reacts to the insulin doses (which by the way is measured in units, not mls!) A low of 5 and a high of 30 certainly shows that there is a way to go yet, and I would speak to your vet about this if I were you because a picture will be forming and the vet will need to see these results to help tweak the dosing.

I'm a little puzzled about the reading of 5.1 halfway through the day - that suggests to me that she had been lower than that, probably soon after the Caninsulin dose, which may be why she is "a little strange" and you wouldn't want her to be going too low as she could be at risk of hypo-ing. But at the other end of the scale, 30 is too high and a BG of that level will be making her feel uncomfortable too. It may well hinge on the type of food and type of insulin, so do talk to your vet about other insulins if you can - I think we have mentioned this before.

Keep in touch with both the vet and us here - the combination of both will help a lot!

Diana
 
My boy was taken back into hospital again yesterday as his levels were off the scale again and still dehydrated. They have upped his insulin to 2.5units twice a day now so am hoping that may work as this will b the third time he's had to go in and get more worried each time that he wont come home.
 
The ups and downs are normal, if you look at my spreadsheet it took 3 months for me to get anywhere with my Scooter and we're still working on getting in normal ranges. Take a few deep breaths.... patience.

Becky - I suggest you make your own thread if you have any questions or concerns about your kitty. Your posts may get lost in other peoples' threads. My advice to you would be to start home testing so YOU are in control of your cat's treatment, not your vet that you see once every few weeks/months..
 
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