Realistically speaking.....

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Gwen and Morris

Gwen and Morris

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Please keep in mind that I am not an 'experienced' pet owner. Please also keep in mind that I work at our local hospital (I am a clerk) and know some things about human medical conditions. Plus, remember that I live in Canada and that vet/medicine costs are different in different countries.

I have been speaking with some of my experienced pet-owner co-workers today about Morris & his problems. I was telling them that my FDMB friends think the 2 most likely causes of Morris not eating is that he either needs to have a dental done or that he could have pancreatitis. The concensus from my co-workers is, if he needs a dental that is manageable, if, however, it is pancreatitis that is a death sentence! They say it is not worth it to have him suffering that much for the amount of money it will cost me to treat him. I am absolutely HORRIFIED by this information!!!

Although I am not sure I want to read your responses.....please tell me honestly what you all think about treating pancreatitis. I should have as much information as possible before my appointment this afternoon. Morris is scheduled to go to the kennel this weekend & again next weekend......I either need to have him feeling well, or make that rather difficult decision by Saturday mid-day.
 
Gwen, my non-diabetic dog had pancreatitis. It was a painful experience for him. A week in the hospital was painful for my wallet.
But he totally healed!...Keep in mind, he was not diabetic, so that might have complicated it...don't know.
 
Your friends/coworkers are doing you both a disservice...pancreatitis can be very manageable and not break the bank!
 
Tucker has had chronic pancreatitis, confirmed through PLI tests, biopsies and Ultra sounds since 2005, it is not a death sentence and is very managable.
 
I totally agree with Jen.

I did lose Lucky whilst she had Pancreatitis but am sure it wasn't what took her (vet ignorance did)

If you have to hospitalise initially, then yes might hurt your wallet a bit, but if you have a vet that will let you treat with sub q's at home, no where near as costly from what I understand.

Not sure how much the FplI test will cost in Canada (not expensive here in Germany)
The definite thing I picked up was, because there is no known cure, throw everything at it. That's what my vets refused to do (idiots but lets not go there).
Appy stimulants, sub q's.

Does Morris sit in the meatloaf position? This is a big sign of possible P'tis a long with smacking their lips when presente with food (as if hungry but feel sick at the thought/smell of it)
People get their supplies from on-line pharmacies as often works out cheaper than the vet.

Do hope you can get Morris through this but ultimately you have to do what you feel is right. :YMHUG:

I can't say how long recovery akes, but there are an endless number of kitties on here who suffer with it.
 
I suspect there would be an awful lot of less people on here if that was so. My understanding too is that there are two types of pancreatitis: chronic and acute with acute cring much more deadly. Chronic is on going and I think a lot of people here deal with it. I even begin to think I have been dealing with it. I have a friend with a non-diabetic that has been dealing with it for years. Between bouts she is fine.
 
I don't know anything about that so I can't talk about that specific problem, but for some people $$$ is a problem. It was almost $300 the day we took Arnold to the vet and he was dx. We were not prepared for that and thankfully had tax $$$ or I'm not sure what we would've done b/c we never have that kind of $$$ (which is why sadly, Arnold hadn't been to the vet in a while). The vet we saw did not take partial payments, it was all or nothing. If the choice comes between feeding my kids and taking care of my cat, the kids win and we'd have to find a new home for Arnold. :sad: I'm hoping we are never presented w/ something we can't manage and now we have Arnold on a health plan that will hopefully help us.
 
My Gwyn had acute pancreatitis twice, 14 years apart. I guess the second attack was ... I dunno, four years ago now? I noticed she was ailing either late Saturday night or sometime Sunday, brought her into the vet first thing Monday. Ran tests and an ultrasound and ruled out most stuff but pancreatitis (I don't think the fPLI test was available then).

We kept Gwyn dosed with painkillers, gave her sub-Q fluids, kept offering her food and water every couple hours around the clock. Can't recall whether we used prednisone (a steroid), cyproheptadine (appetite stimulant), Pepcid (anti-nausea), or some combo thereof. Spent pretty much all of that week taking care of Gwyn 24/7, took her back to the vet on Friday and the vet said she was still a bit weak from everything that'd gone on, but that she was going to be fine.

I think the total cost was maybe $500? It was about $250 to have the portable abdominal ultrasound guy come in, but we caught him between appointments and he was there 40 minutes after we called him, so it was totally worth it. Probably another hundred for painkillers (buprenex is expensive!) and fluids and miscellaneous medications, and the rest was the appointment and bloodwork during the rule-out-other-stuff phase.

Excluding short vet visits, we did everything at home. I guess we could have had her treated at a 24-hour care facility, but I was trying to balance the better (more experienced) care she would get there versus the extra stress of having strange persons handling her and having other animals within hearing distance and maybe sight as well and me not being there to re-assure her, and we came down on the side of home treatment -- Gwyn just doesn't do well with strangers. Boarding her at the vet's or at a 24-hour care facility would certainly have been more expensive than home treatment, but the money wasn't a factor in our decision.


If the kennel isn't an option for Morris, is there any way you could keep him at home the weekends that you're gone? A friend / neighbor / vet tech who could stop by and take care of him, a niece / nephew who could house-sit for the weekend, something like that?
 
JJ & Gwyn said:
If the kennel isn't an option for Morris, is there any way you could keep him at home the weekends that you're gone? A friend / neighbor / vet tech who could stop by and take care of him, a niece / nephew who could house-sit for the weekend, something like that?
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Unfortunately, I do not have anyone that is able/willing to test his BG & give insulin. My hubby & son will be home both of these weekends, but they will not treat Morris.
 
meatloaf position is on belly with feet tucked in -- sometimes head is down too

This can be a sign of "I don't feel good" pain

Not to say that cats don't sit in this position at other times (non-painful) but usually head is up and they're looking around and interacting. Also, they'll sometimes sleep like this
 
This is totally manageable and will not break the bank. It is some work, but my babies are worth just about anything
 
Thomas' first bout of pancreatitis was in the spring of 2000, and every change of season he suffers through another episode...winter to spring--summer to fall.
I have learned to adjust his food at those times...mostly poached chicken breasts and such. We are in Canada, and I have to say that the only time it broke the bank was the first go through. I am sorry but your co-workers are wrong.
Dana
 
if, however, it is pancreatitis that is a death sentence!
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Wow. That's awfully 'doomy/gloomy'.....unnecessarily so.

While pancreatitis *can* be very serious and life-threatening, so can a car accident but....we all know the spectrum of car accidents. They can range from a minor fender-bender to a fatal wreck.

Without knowing the serverity of ANY disease, we can't comment on prognosis.

One thing that I will comment on is my frustration that PAIN MEDS are so often ignored in treating P.itis.

My notes from one of my vet seminars (2002) state:

DO NOT MAKE YOUR PANCREATITIS PATIENT BEG FOR PAIN MEDS!!

......in bold, capital letters.
 
I appreciate all the feedback received today! Special thanks to Dr Lisa for stating her position on this topic! I now realize that I forgot to cross-post here about how my appt with the vet went this afternoon!

The vet we saw today was very pleased with all the detailed information I was able to provide her & did not cringe at all when I talked about the information & help I receive from my 'online friends'!!! Morris has gained weight since he was last there in Dec....he was 5.27kg & today I can't remember if she said today he was 5.36kg or 5.69kg. She does not think he appears to be dehydrated at all, so we did not need to get any SQ fluids. She did look at his teeth....she said they could use some attention, but she has definately seen worse. Before we schedule a dental, however, she wanted to run some tests to rule out other issues. It cost a small fortune, but I gave the OK for a full blood panel (cbc & chemistry), urinalysis, urine culture & the fpl test (she brought that up before I had a chance to!). The preliminarly results will be back tomorrow afternoon, but the urine culture & probably the fpl will take a few more days. In the mean time, diabetes is taking a back seat. The main goal right now is getting him to eat anything! If all he will eat right now is MC, that is OK. Tonight, dh has also suggested that I should try feeding him a can of salmon (he caught the salmon & had it canned....no additives in it). I also mentioned that I kind of hope Morris is feeling better by the weekend as he needs to go to the kennel.....the tech that we see most assured me that the kennel he is going to (she is the 1 who recommended it to us in the first place) is quite competent & will be able to deal with his health issues if he is still not 100% by Saturday afternoon. Morris still did not eat much today, but at least he did drink the water that I had added to the food. When we got home from the vet, I opened up a new can of MC fancy feast, mixed it with water & served it to Morris.....he ate about 3/4 of it before going to lay down.

I must admit that pain would have to be 1 of my main concerns. Dh & I were discussing it this afternoon......if it is going to take a bunch of pain meds to keep Morris happy, it is not really worth it. Neither of us would like to be kept alive waiting for our next dose of pain meds, so it would not be fair to do that to Morris either. After my visit with the vet this afternoon, however, I am ever hopeful that a little dental work will be all that is needed!

Any other thoughts/suggestions/advice/questions???
 
Thank you, Dr Lisa! At the first sign of a CP flare for Moochie these days I call the vet for famotadine and buprenex. It has been a godsend for her on a couple of occasions. As you know, Moochie is not easy to treat and if the meds can't be injected subQ she won't get them. The last couple of flares the bupe gets the credit for getting her through them IMHO.

Gwen, I am not an expert by any means but I agree with others who have posted. Pancreatitis is not a "death sentence". As a few have already posted even acute pancreatitis can often be successfully treated. Chronic pancreatitis in the experience of many of us here is often very much kept under control by diet. Moochie, my dry foodie fat and cranky old diabetic hasn't had nearly the number of flares since feeding her *cough* Kitten Chow *cough* which is fairly low fat. I'm not recommending her choice of foods but there isn't much out there that's cheaper so I think I can safely say that treatment doesn't break the bank :mrgreen:
 
I was posting at the same time you updated. Just to be clear, the pain meds are not a maintenance med for pancreatitis. They are only to be used in the case of a flare to reduce the pain until the body can "heal". I've never had to use them for Moochie for more than a few days at a time with extended periods (months at least) between flares.
 
Susie and Moochie said:
At the first sign of a CP flare for Moochie these days I call the vet for famotadine and buprenex. It has been a godsend for her on a couple of occasions.
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Gwen - I am never one to keep an animal alive that is in chronic pain and would euthanize an animal far before probably 90% of all humans would....but we are talking about temporary pain meds during flare-ups of a (usually) manageable disease - just like what Susie does with Moochie.

Buprinex is so easy to give....just a couple of drops of a tasteless liquid deposited into the mouth so that it is absorbed through the gum tissue. ie.....not to be swallowed so you don't have to get it far back in a cat's mouth.

It can also be injected sub q. It does not sting and is very well-tolerated by most cats.

Part of the problem is that we (stupid) humans often don't recongnize pain in cats - often the vets are at fault for this lack of recognition.

Therefore, I have always been a fan of 'diagnosis through the back door'.....ie.....given the patient pain meds and see if they feel better.

If they do? Well...then....that is highly suggestive that they were in pain.
 
I wonder if your co-workers were thinking of pancreatic cancer . . . that is always very, very bad news, for humans or animals.

Pancreatitis on the other hand -- manageable, as everyone has said.

-- Janet
 
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