Re: 12/18 Tawny PMPS 390

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DD & Tinkerbell

DD & Tinkerbell

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Yesterday: Tawny 12/17/11 - SS is current.

12/18 amps is not for a couple hrs but i decided to open a 12/18 condo for her instead of posting her overnite update to yesterday's and I will change the subject line as the day progresses.

Overnight (from 12/17 pm cycle):

PMPS 208 - hooted 3u - ate 3/4 can Wellness Chicken (off Mommie's fingers mostly)
+3 - 177
+6 - 85 - ate the rest of the Wellness (mostly off Mommie's fingers) (1/4 can)
+7 - 100
+10 - 152
 
Re: 12/18 Tawny (Overnight Update)

Oh, how wonderful!!!! Her #s starting to look more beautiful now. Keep up the excellent work! My thoughts and prayers are still continuing for you both, and I'm still wishing for her to make a full and speedy recovery. Go, Tawny!!! :RAHCAT
 
Re: 12/18 Tawny AMPS 177

I held the 3u dose - i will be here all day.

She working on her first 1/2 can of Wellness Chicken on her own right now.

I have been experimenting w/plates & bowls. I threw all the plastic out, and started using some paper trays (like French Fry trays) from THS. She would eat from them but acted like she didn't like them much. Then I went w/a small SS bowl which she seemed to like a little better, but not much, and acted like it was too deep (it was small bowl size, not deep).

So last night I got a "camp plate" out of the pantry, it is low like a plate w/a sloped rim, and she seems so far to like this best. She eats from it on her own more consistently than anything else I've tried.
 
Re: 12/18 Tawny AMPS 177

Cats tend to prefer a serving piece where their whiskers don't brush the sides. What we look at as not too deep, may in fact interfere with their whiskers and what amounts to "width perception." I use bowls that sound very similar to what you described -- china and about 1.5 inches deep on the sides and a flat bottom.

Great start for Tawny!!
 
Re: 12/18 Tawny AMPS 177

Sienne and Gabby said:
Cats tend to prefer a serving piece where their whiskers don't brush the sides. What we look at as not too deep, may in fact interfere with their whiskers and what amounts to "width perception." I use bowls that sound very similar to what you described -- china and about 1.5 inches deep on the sides and a flat bottom.

Great start for Tawny!!
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Sienne,

Seriously, girl, you are an absolute encyclopedia of useful information! You have been/are so valuable to us. Who needs Google when we've got you! :-D

Thank you again!
 
Re: 12/18 Tawny Caloric Intake ?

I have been trying to figure out exactly how many calories a recovering Tawny needs per day. The vet recommends 200 calories per day. It is my understanding that a recovering DKA kitty needs 1.5 times it's normal caloric intake, right? So if a cat needs 20-30 calories per pound per day, a 10 lb cat would needs 300 calories per day?

So when calculating what Tawny needs, do I use her current weight (~9.5 lbs) or her healthy weight (12-13 lbs)? So if I split the difference and use 25 calories per pound, at a weight of 9.5 lbs she would need 237.5 calories per day?

And then do I calculate the 1.5 times that amount for her recovery on her current weight or on her healthy weight? So for recovery 1.5 times that is 356.25 calories per 24 hrs?

I am not good at calculating so I may be way off in this which is why I am asking.

I am using the Tawny feeding SS Karrie developed for us. It calculates Tawny's daily intake for me but I need to know what her baseline requirements are still, I am not sure the 200 calories the vet recommended are enough, I think I read in Karrie and Maverick's story that Maverick was getting s/thg like 335?

So far today, "today" starting at AMPS, Tawny has consumed 174.72 calories (using the feeding SS to calculate): Tawny's Calories Consumed SS.


Karrie, the Tawny feeding SS you developed is really great and proving to be invaluable! Thanks so much for the hard work. Hugs to you and Nike, I hope Nike is doing better.

Desi
 
Re: 12/18 Tawny AMPS 177

DD & Tinkerbell said:
Sienne,
Who needs Google when we've got you! :-D
Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: SO AGREED!!!

my 3 brats have settled on my antique ironstone condiment dishes :roll:
(flat bottom with tapered sides about an inch high)...

ah, well...y'all know they are spoiled anyway...and i figured when binks and Skinny Annie took to those dishes with gusto...why not?
Smudgie, on the other hand...would eat anything out of a shallow depression in the dirt...VERY undiscriminating lady :?

thrilling to hear Tawnster is doing so well!
 
Re: 12/18 Tawny Need Prescriptions Advice

If you haven't read this post from Jaclyn 12/17 you need to: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=58841&p=640006#p640006- WOW - & Tawny is getting these drugs (I am cross-posting on this one, cutting & pasting what I posted in Jaclyn's condo here in Tawny's condo):

Jacspets said:
Mirtrazipine- This is most commonly prescribed at 1/4 Tab every third day. However, the recommended dose is 1/8 tab every day. This dose stabilizes the level of the drug in the bloodstream and seems to also eliminate many of the side effects seen with the 1/4 tab dose.
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Tawny has been prescribed this, 1/4 tab every 3 days as needed, however has had none for 4 days. Also, based on what Karrie posted in Tawny's condo yesterday (12/17/11), specific to cat's w/feeding tubes she will not be getting any more of it:
Karrie and Maverick said:
Do not give a cat with a feeding tube an appetite stimulant. There is no need. It has a lot of side effects and is often called meowzapine. You have the tube. She will eat when she feels better. An appetite stimulant can actually cause long term food aversion and you will have the tube for a much longer time.
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And if she ever has to have it again after her tube is removed she will be only getting the 1/8th. - Desi

Jacspets said:
Metronidazole- In studies, Metronidazole has been shown/proven to cause GI lymphoma in cats and should not be given. In cases where a GI antibiotic is indicated, Tylosin should be given, NOT Metronidazole.
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Tawny was prescribed Metronidazole, 1/8 tab twice daily, during her last hospital stay and on her dischg pprs dated 12/11/11. There are 13 1/8th tabs left in the bottle. Can I pull her off of it? - Desi

Jacspets said:
Well, I hope this is helpful to at least some that come across it.
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You have NO IDEA how much help this is! - Desi

Linda and Bear Man said:
julie & punkin said:
thanks for posting all of that, jacklyn. i've seen several people (but no idea who) mentioning their cats being given metronidazole. that's a little disconcerting.
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Like perhaps me, for one.

Bear Man was an IBD kitty treated long term with metronidazole. Civie Teddy was an IBD kitty also treated long term with Metronidazole. He developed GI lymphoma but had a very long remission on Leukeran. He succumbed to pancreatic cancer two months ago.
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And me.

Tawny was also prescribed Leukeran, on her discharge pprs it reads: "We are starting her on oral Leukeran for suspected underlying intestinal inflammatory disease."

Do you think I should go ahead with this now based on the above?

I would like to stop the Metronidazole and not even do the Leukeran at all based on the above. She has not started the Luekeran yet, plans are for starting tomorrow.

Now I am really confused...HELP!

Desi
 
Re: 12/18 Tawny Need Prescriptions & Calories Advice PLS!

Desi,
I posted in the other thread. Please don't change any meds based on this without consulting with the vet.
 
Re: 12/18 Tawny Need Prescriptions & Calories Advice PLS!

I agree with Linda. Talk to the vet. But that being said, if it were my cat, I'd insist on changing the Metronidazole for something else. It just doesn't seem worth the risk to me but your vet may see it differently. I'm not a Doctor, I'm just passing on info I got from one...
 
Re: 12/18 Tawny Need Prescriptions & Calories Advice PLS!

I agree with talking to your vet. However, you will want to think strategically about this. You've run into a bit of a brick wall with this vet when you've brought information in before. You may need to mention that a friend went to a conference where a vet was presenting on the use of metronidazole and noted recent research related to the development of lymphoma and is now recommending tylosin. You don't want to threaten the vet and have her dig her heels in.

As for calories, while a cat with DKA needs to eat, you don't want to make this such a difficult situation for you both. If you are getting 1.5 times the usual amount of calories into Tawny based on her current weight, which will, hopefully, be increasing. I think that should be fine. I would defer to Karrie on this, though.
 
Re: 12/18 Tawny Need Prescriptions & Calories Advice PLS!

Kazi prefers the the coated paper plates - appetizer size. A small ceramic plate? No thank you. Bowl? No thank you. Ungrateful snot! ;-) Glad Tawny is starting to eat more on her own!
 
This is high but she has pretty much been eating all day, which is going to affect her #s. So far today she has consumed 1-1/2 5.5oz cans of Wellness Chicken and is working on the 2nd 1/2 of the 2nd one, either eating on her own or off my fingers. And she is starting to come get me and tell me when she is hungry, a very Tawny thing to do.

As far as calories, I am using the SS Karrie developed, so if I am inputting the data correctly Tawny has consumed 349.44 calories since today's amps: Tawny Feeding Log

I am not happy about her BBK tho which was 3.1 about 2 hrs b4 pmps. Yesterday urine ketones showed NONE.

I am also wondering if there could be some rebound in here, since she ran blues and even hit green again overnight 12/17-18 & was still in blue for a while at and after amps this morning.

I did not change any of her meds and I will talk to her vet when she gets her "after care" ckup next week.

Linda, it was nice to read that the Leukeran bought Teddy so much more time - thanks.

Desi
 
Re the leukran I would join the lymphoma group maybe and ask about this. Unless they did an ultrasound or a biopsy or had other signs I don't think I would consider this - sounds like its just a guess and not a diagnosis? I wonder with the metronidazole if they suspected IBD. But you said that she didn't really have symptoms of this - no cramping, diarrhea, bloody poop?

You are getting in amazing calories! The thing is I don't know about DKA. Maverick had FHL which was liver failure. For FHL the goal is a minimum of maintenance calories - so they don't lose any weight so the liver doesn't process any body fat and get damaged further. I think with DKA the calories may serve a different purpose. I will PM Sandy and Black Kitty on this and when the calories can be dropped. Did she need to gain weight?

I'm really glad she's not eating that kibble anymore.
 
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