Re: 11/29 Silver Lights Out 61.2

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KittyMom777

KittyMom777

Member Since 2014
Last Week's Condo

Starting a new condo as I'm doing a curve today. Got up in the middle of the night to see what Silver's numbers do at a +8 night time. Only 104 so I guess he likes to go lower than usual at nighttime. Looking forward to seeing what today's curve shows.

This sleepy mommy is going to back to bed - AMPS in 4 hrs.

Juliet and Silver
 
Re: 11/29 Silver +8 104.4

Juliet

Silver is looking good. All the greens are allowing his pancreas to begin to heal. Hope he surfs nicely for you today.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;V +2=337.5 - bounce??

Sooo disappointed with that +2 number. Where did THAT come from? Too low a dose? Fur shot?

Usually his bounces are before his shot not after....

Thinking maybe it might have been too soon to drop him to 0.25. If he is high for the whole curve then will put his dose back to 0.5.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;V +2=337.5 - bounce??

It could definately be a bounce. Or a bad test strip. Keep going with your curve,lets see what he does
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;V +2=337.5 - bounce??

can't wait to see the rest of the curve Juliet
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;V +2=337.5 - bounce??

LindaMS said:
It could definately be a bounce. Or a bad test strip. Keep going with your curve,lets see what he does
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Can bounces happen at +2 ? Why did I think they only happened at AMPS or PMPS?

Ok I'll keep going. Was so disappointed as I wanted to see a good curve today. He also just peed on the floor and he hasnt done that in a week. Think his BG must be high as thats what he does to tell me.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;V +2=337.5 - bounce??

i'm sorryJuliet - those darn bounces kill me too but Silver is still doing great
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;V +2=337.5 - bounce??

Ok I did a +3 and his number barely changed...should I give him another .25u so he doesnt ride high all day? His dose changed this morning from 0.5 to 0.25 and I may have missed that and done a fur shot or not even filled the syringe properly as I find 0.25 hard to do. If he is high all day, do I go back to .5 tonight?

Juliet and Silver
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;V +2=405 +3=403.2

Well I probably shouldnt have and I'll probably see bad results later - but I couldnt let him ride high all day so I gave him another 0.25u at +3. I know, I know thats probably the wrong thing to do - but even if he got ALL of his am dose (and I think it was a fur shot), the most he got in total would have been his usual 0.5.

Will see what the rest of the curve looks like after that extra few drops.

Juliet and Silver
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;V +2=405 +3=403.2

But don't forget Juliet that that extra dose will now add into the next preshot so be careful. I know you are around to monitor him but it will be like a dose increase on his next preshot.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;V +2=405 +3=403.2

Hi Nadine,
Yes I knew that....I'm being careful and watching him all day. In fact the extra dose even if he got the full am dose (which I know he didnt) is just 0.5u. I would NEVER have done this had he been on a higher dose. No-one was online so I just had to go with my gut instinct and what I know of my cat. I would never knowingly put him in danger.

Right now he is mewing like crazy wanting some TLC...if I stop for a moment he demands more. This is new from him!
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;V +2=405 +3=403.2

that's great that he is demanding attention. He must feel better! yes, i know. you know your cat better than anyone. i'm just a nervous onlooker over here nailbite_smile nailbite_smile nailbite_smile . :-D :-D :-D :-D
Sounds like he's feeling good. That is fantastic !!!! Great Job . We are all learning this sugar dance together. It is great sometimes,scary sometimes and frustrating sometimes but when they start acting like they feel better, isn't it awesome ? dancing_cat dancing_cat dancing_cat dancing_cat
Have a great day Juliet
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;V +2=405 +3=403.2

try saying these words out loud.


"The dose is determined by the lowest number in the cycle......not the high numbers....."





Juliet,
you can't force the higher numbers to go away....
the saying is.... this is a marathon, not a sprint.
Silver is doing great....
you just have to let the cycles play out.
I'm glad you are around today to monitor..... but often, with lantus, the amount you shoot in now..... will play out later in the cycle.
It doesn't react immediately. So most likely, you could get those lows tonight instead when you want to sleep.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;V +2=405 +3=403.2 +4=243

Thanks Nadine, he is doing very well today. No need to be nailbite_smile . He is okay and I am here to keep an eye on him. Even if he was in danger of a hypo I am prepared. I would not be taking this risk of giving him an extra dose had I not been home, I would have allowed him to ride high.

Rhiannaon - you're saying things I already KNOW. I know the dose is determined by the nadir. I also know that my cat has a high nadir if his +2 is high. I made a decision. I believe it to be the right one. He had a high number today because a) he was not ready for the dose reduction and/or b) he didn't even get the am shot as it was a fur shot.

I know you mean well, but NO-ONE was around so I had to make my own decision based on what I KNOW about my cat. He is doing fine and now in yellow numbers. I am not a complete idiot and I hate the word "newbie". I have a good brain in my head, I have read a tonne on the forum and knew I would get slammed for my decision this morning. But like Mel has often told me I and I alone hold the syringe. I have over 100 tests over the past few weeks and I know how Silver responds so as ECID, I made a decision. Respect that, even if its not what you would have done.

Thank you.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;+2=405 +3=403.2 +6=243

He had a high number today because a) he was not ready for the dose reduction and/or b) he didn't even get the am shot as it was a fur shot.
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No need to get defensive.
yes you hold the needle.
But the reason he had a high number was he bounced in reaction to his green numbers.
Most likely, he will bounce even more now.

Every one here is volunteering their time, most of them have jobs and lives. There will be moments where someone doesn't respond.


I am trying to convey that lantus does not respond immediately.
The extra you shot will likely show up during tonights cycle. It's kind of like a delayed reaction.
That is because of the shed/depot.
Silver did earn his reduction.
But a new dose always take some time to settle.....
You say you know this but your actions show otherwise ....
and others who are lurking, need to be reminded so they don't copy your actions. ( some of them don't monitor at all)


Glad you are with him today.....
I'd say you might want a little nap in prep for tonight. :mrgreen:
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;+2=405 +3=403.2 +6=243

Juliet

When I have done dose reductions after a low reading they have taken a few days to settle and remi has gone a little higher again but then settled again. I felt at the time that the reduction hadn't worked but don't get disheartened then can just take time to get used to the lower dose and then they are off again.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;+2=405 +3=403.2 +6=243

I think I already said I gave a fur shot this mornin so in all probability he just got his dose late and a reduced one at that.

I clearly said that I was going against protocol and my rationale for doing so. Anyone "lurking" will know that what I chose to do is not recommended. Don't slam my decision. You put people off wanting to post.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;+2=405 +3=403.2 +6=243

phlika29 said:
Juliet

When I have done dose reductions after a low reading they have taken a few days to settle and remi has gone a little higher again but then settled again. I felt at the time that the reduction hadn't worked but don't get disheartened then can just take time to get used to the lower dose and then they are off again.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I think it was a little soon for the reduction personally but time will tell. I should have waited for Mel's return before changing anything.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;+2=405 +3=403.2 +6=243

hey, juliet...

i had to post when i saw what is going on here. i'm going to give this to you straight because i care, too... no sugar coating, ok?

you have received EXCELLENT advice from people who care about what can happen to Silver (yesterday and today). stop putting them off or they might not be around to help next time. you know there's always a next time don't you?

you may know Silver, but it's becoming increasingly obvious that you do not have a full understanding of the the action, nuances, and exceptions when using lantus. it's not your fault. you're just too new to this sugar dance to have possibly taken it all in let alone know how it applies to Silver. a full understanding will come, but in the mean time please listen to what folks are saying. their comments are made NOT to put you down or slight your intelligence. their comments are made for one reason and one reason only... TO KEEP SILVER SAFE.

and NO, it was not too early for a reduction. period. and no, there's no excuse for giving another shot after a suspected fur shot. never. you have no idea how much of the first shot "got in". the action of lantus is cumulative. it'll catch up to you tonight... maybe tomorrow. watch for it.

when kitty gives you a preshot number of 81 like Silver did the day before yesterday and you're not comfortable shooting it because it's too low... it's time for a reduction. Silver then dropped to 54 @ +2 last night and probably would have gone lower had you not intervened with food. juliet, what do you think would have happened had you not been home to catch it? what if it was a work day? on work days you say you only feed twice a day (at shot times). i shudder to think of your poor kitty dropping too low early in the cycle with no food to help him bring his numbers up.

for safety's sake... for Silver's sake... the new dose should be 0.25 unit bid until he tells you otherwise.

like i said when i started this... no sugar-coating. all comments, including mine, are made because we care and don't want Silver or you to have to experience a tragedy. please accept these and everyone else's comments in the spirit in which they've been given.



ps --- give mel a break. please let her enjoy a weekend with her husband and family. those who stay on to offer advice when they don't have to get burned out as it is. give them time to recharge their batteries with the love from friends and family...
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;+2=405 +3=403.2 +6=243

Thanks for your reply. I will stop posting if that's preferred.

Mel sent me a PM so I know what to do to fix things. And I don't force her to respond.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;+2=405 +3=403.2 +6=243

KittyMom777 said:
Thanks for your reply. I will stop posting if that's preferred.

Mel sent me a PM so I know what to do to fix things. And I don't force her to respond.
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juliet, don't stop posting. that is not and was not the intention of my post. i encourage you to post. i hope you post. i also encourage you to post publicly. this board was founded on peer review. seeking and receiving advice via PM is widely frowned upon and highly discouraged.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver

no one wants you to stop.

if I came off abrupt.... it's not meant that way.....
I try to say things as gentle as I can....
Jill said it much better than I did.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4;+2=405 +3=403.2 +6=243

Posting is fine Juliet

What Jill and what I was telling you in PMs is the same thing, we never reshoot a suspected fur shot because we just don't know how much actually got in the cat. and because of the way Lantus works reshooting doesn't normally help with the high numbers you are seeing during that particular cycle.

Yep we freak out on things like that mainly because we have been around and seen bad things happen when someone does reshoot. Just about like we all lost our minds when your vet wanted Silver started on 2u bid. Those freak outs come from years and years of experience with not only our own cats but by all the cats we have seen, read both condos and spreadsheets on etc.

Even with years of experience, knowing our insulin and our cats, we can still get dangerous lows and still give fur shots from time to time. Just last night I was up until 4 a.m. with Autumn because she was running lower than I was comfortable with, and did eventually drop dangerously low (39) at +8 last night, and that was with me feeding her curve and trying to hold her steady.

Not a single person that offered advice was slamming you are insulting your intelligence, they were worried and giving you the same advice that I would have had I been here. Which is that you never reshoot on a suspected fur shot. No it wasn't too soon to give the reduction given your work schedule and feeding schedule, because we want to keep Silver safe. And they can bounce anywhere in the cycle and off any number until they just plain stop bouncing.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: 11/29 Silver

Not slamming maybe but not kind either. I've been very upset by the comments in my condo. Maybe not intended but I've been made to feel stupid and not caring about Silver. Not very welcoming or helpful to someone new.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver

KittyMom777 said:
Not slamming maybe but not kind either. I've been very upset by the comments in my condo. Maybe not intended but I've been made to feel stupid and not caring about Silver. Not very welcoming or helpful to someone new.
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One can choose to be upset or one can choose to take what has been said in the spirit it is intended for the sake of their cat.

I am truly sorry you've chosen (it is a choice) to become upset about comments made to keep Silver safe, but better you upset than watching Silver experience an ugly or maybe even fatal hypoglycemic episode. None of us could live with ourselves if anything happened to Silver had we watched in silence.

What you do with the information given is up to you.

Have a good day, Juliet.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver

Silver is fine and perfectly safe. I would never put him in danger. I may have made a mistake reshooting a fur shot but he's never been in unsafe numbers. If he was I'd take him to the vet. I wouldn't let him suffer. Despite what you think I have been listening to the advice. My vet wants Silver on 2u bid. At no time did I say I was refusing the advice. Not one single person was online either in TR, Health or Relaxed this morning, so don't give me a hard time for making a wrong decision. There was no one to ask.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver

Wow. Juliet, please dont severe a great support system over this. Everyone was concerned, for good reason, and was trying to tell you what you needed to know. We have no way of knowing how much you know or understand. We dont live in your house, we have never met you in person. We can only read what you write, and then again between the lines, add in our experience, and then provide our advice (for what it is worth).

No one here is claiming to know it ALL. No one is an expert. But we screw our courage to the sticking post and put our necks out there and give advice because we care about sugar cats, their owners, and wish to pay forward what was done for us as we learned this dance.

Its really really really hard to type a message on here to someone to tell them that perhaps there is a better way to deal with their cat. Its nerve wracking, you dont want to be misunderstood, or to come across as judgemental or superior. I struggle with it everytime I write a post (including this one!). And I know others do to.

But again, courage to the sticking post, and we do it anyway, because we care that much.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver

Thank you Linda, Mel, Jill and everyone else who has commented in this condo. I apologise for getting upset and defensive. I'm exhausted and finding the lack of sleep makes me more sensitive. I nearly lost my job this week caring for Silver. My friends haven't seen me for weeks, my pastor is worried about my health as I'm not long recovered from brain surgery and I'm not sure how to continue and keeping my health and sanity. But I must. Somehow.
 
Re: 11/29 Silver

KittyMom777 said:
Not one single person was online either in TR, Health or Relaxed this morning, so don't give me a hard time for making a wrong decision. There was no one to ask.
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Should such a situation arise in the future, Juliet, I recommend in the strongest possible terms that you follow the forum maxim, "Better too high for a day than too low for a moment."
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4; PMPS 183.6 +2 93.6

looks like the pm cycle could see some action. that +2 is quite the drop.

Surf safely, Silver.... no keeping mama up all night..... :mrgreen:
 
Re: 11/29 Silver AMPS 158.4; PMPS 183.6 +2 93.6

I'm too exhausted to stay up all night. He will have to be ok as I'm going to bed. If I lose my job thru exhaustion then I won't be able to care for Silver. They say in airplanes to put oxygen mask on yourself first then your dependents. If I am ill I'm no good to Silver.
 
if you're still up, please give some high carb or syrup if you can't stay up. There's a pretty good chance this is the extra insulin kicking in. Carb him up so he has enough room if he's still going to keep dropping tonight.

See how on 11/27 you skipped a shot, but the numbers were ok until suddenly 24 hours later it went high? That was a delayed response to the skipped shot. The same can happen in reverse - any time you increase or decrease a dose, or give a fur shot or an extra shot or whatever, it can take a few cycles to see the full effect. Just because he didn't go low this morning on the extra insulin doesn't mean he won't go lower tonight or even tomorrow.

LANTUS & LEVEMIR - WHAT IS THE INSULIN DEPOT?
 
Re: 11/29 Silver

KittyMom777 said:
I didnt seek it. I cant control the actions of others if they want to PM me.
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NOBODY should be offering you or anyone else advice via PM. It violates the terms of service of the board. What people really should be doing (especially when the advice is unsolicited as it seems to have been based on your comment above) is reporting the PM to the moderators. Anyone who offers advice that is not subject to peer review has no business being here.

I 2nd Libby's advice. If you are still awake, but can't stay up, carb him up to keep him from dropping too low later. It is sometimes referred to as "aborting the cycle".
 
Thanks Libby - I set the alarm for 2 hrs later and tested him having given him some of his usual food. He was a good, comfortable 129.
Carl & Polly said:
KittyMom777 said:
I didnt seek it. I cant control the actions of others if they want to PM me.
Click to expand...

NOBODY should be offering you or anyone else advice via PM. It violates the terms of service of the board. What people really should be doing (especially when the advice is unsolicited as it seems to have been based on your comment above) is reporting the PM to the moderators. Anyone who offers advice that is not subject to peer review has no business being here.".
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Carl and Polly - I think I've had enough lectures for the day....let's just leave things be. No need to add to the comments already made and the apology already given. You didn't need to weigh in. Next time, please read the full comments above before adding your comments. I was not given advice via PM. If you dont want the PM function at all, remove it. And dont think I cant see the politics going on here between you and other people who have commented in my condo.
 
Juliet,

That was not a lecture.


And I did read the entire condo. Twice in fact, before posting.

Mel sent me a PM so I know what to do to fix things. And I don't force her to respond
Click to expand...

I didnt seek it. I cant control the actions of others if they want to PM me
Click to expand...
Those are your words, not mine. Forgive me from concluding that you got a PM after reading you say that you did.

Additionally, you are not qualified to tell me (or anyone else for that matter) that I "didn't need to weigh in". I most certainly felt compelled to do so. I take my job as a moderator very seriously. And if someone is advising by PM, I will do whatever I can to make sure they don't in the future. That's sort of part of my job, entrusted to me by the incredible lady that started this board.

I have no clue whatsoever what you are accusing me and others of as far as politics goes. And frankly, I think you're completely out of line and owe me and whoever else you're accusing of playing politics an apology.

The simple reality is that the people who are commenting in your condos are trying to save your cat's life. That's their motivation. And your damned fortunate that some of them pop in and try to share decades of experience and wisdom collectively. I wish I'd met them when my cat had diabetes.

For the record, I don't have the ability to make the PM function " go away". If I did, you would have never gotten a PM because the function would have been removed a year or more ago.

I'll refrain from commenting in the future. Or reading your condos for that matter, although I've read just about all of them since you joined. I haven't offered any advice to you primarily because I never used Lantus so I'm not qualified to suggest how you should use it. My only advice to you would be to drop the "paranoia" about politics and start listening better to the advice coming from some of the most qualified people in the world to give you advice.

What attracted my attention to this condo in particular is the fact that it was "reported". When that happens, I am obligated to look, and if prudent, to post. If someone chooses to classify that as " politics", that's their problem. Not mine.

Good luck with Silver.
 
Carl & Polly said:
Juliet,

I'll refrain from commenting in the future. Or reading your condos for that matter, although I've read just about all of them since you joined.
.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

If you had advice to offer about Silver, I would welcome it and I have appreciated the comments that have been about saving Silver - including the ones that I found upsetting at the time as their goal was Silver.
 
Okay let me clarify.

Juliet sent me a PM asking me to look over Silver's SS and her condo, because while I was off board she was getting some very low preshots. Which I did, I read over both the condo and the SS. I did not give dosing advice via PM other than to confirm what was already stated in Silver's condo..i.e. Never re-shoot a suspected fur shot and that yes, she had been correct to reduce the dose.

She was also upset that she was being slammed in her condo, which again I had read over and also told her that I say no slamming going on, just people concerned that she had reshot after a suspected fur shot. And that this was simply a live and learn experience and the only way to fix it was to just ride it out and not repeat the mistake should it arise again.

How this has spiraled so far out of control in the 3 brief days that I have been off board I have no clue. For the love of God folks play nice with each other!

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
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