Re: 1/13 Rocky +6 311 PMPS 299 +2 310 +4 296

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Tina & Rocky

Tina & Rocky

Member Since 2013
Hi,

+6 after pm shot is now at 81mg.

I'm starting a new condo for Rocky. I don't think I did it exactly right in the subject.

Rocky hit a low of 35mg again tonight and we've been slowly climbing our way back up. It went back down and now it's back up.

Now that it's at 81mg will re-check again in another 1/2 hr.

Here's the previous link to his ongoing up and down:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=111671&p=1179459#p1179459
 
Re: 1/12/14 Rocky BG 81mg, +6 after pm shot

We usually start a new condo with the AM shot, but the last one was getting long, so no worry. Now that Rocky has come up quite a bit, thankfully, you could wait an hour for a test. That'll let you get a short nap in if you want. If he's up again in an hour, you are probably good for the night as that will be two rising numbers without food and 2 hours after the high carb food.

I'm signing off for the night too, but things are looking much better now. Whew!
 
Re: 1/12/14 Rocky BG 81mg, +6 after pm shot

Thanks Wendy!

I won't re-check Rocky again until +7 then. That will be in another 1/2 hour. Can't get the nap in. I'm still cleaning litter boxes. I have 30 cats here, I'm an animal rescue. Have been trying to squeeze in feeding and cleaning while taking care of Rocky.
 
Re: 1/12/14 Rocky BG 30mg, +7 after pm shot

Just home from vet. Had one hell of a night again.

Tested at +7 (2am here) and got 30mg. Panic. No test strips. LOST 2ND BOX OF TEST STRIPS!!

Fed Rocky (1)tbs of Friskies Beef and Gravy w/ Karo, prayed.

Ran two stops signs, drove 50MPH through town in a 25MPH zone to the 24 hr Walmart-- WALMART OUT OF RELION TEST STRIPS!! Raced home again. Grabbed Rocky and raced to the vet. Couldn't go to sleep not knowing if had dropped below 30mg.

At +8 on vet's machine he was 222, so it would have been 200mg on mine.

I will give him the 1.5 units in the morning. Wow, to think he might have skipped another dose if BG was too low again in morning. Feel like I ruined it all because I couldn't find that 2nd freakin' box of test strips.
 
Re: 1/12/14 Rocky BG 30mg, +7 after pm shot

Hi Tina. If Rocky is at 30, then please give him some high carb gravy. Maybe two teaspoons, and test again in 15 minutes.
 
Re: 1/12/14 Rocky BG 200mg, +8 after pm shot

Hi Dyana,

Last reading for the night, vet said Rocky at 222 on their machine. It would have been more like 200mg on mine. Going to try to sleep for a few hours now.
 
Re: 1/12/14 Rocky BG 30mg, +7 after pm shot

Hi Tina! You're certainly getting some baptism by fire here!

I'm not the most experienced person here but the protocol says if Rocky drops below 50 he gets a dose reduction. It looks like the 1.5units was too much for him, at least from reading your condo. A Lantus dose is based on the low number, not the highs. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!)

Reducing the dose:
If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. See additional notes in the next paragraph about drops into the 20s and 30s. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.

Please do not let yourself become complacent or blasé about drops into the 20s or 30s.
If kitty drops into the 20s, a full reduction of 0.25u (or 0.5u if kitty is on a higher dose) is strongly recommended.
If your cat drops into the 30s, a full reduction of 0.25u is recommended. There are very few exceptions given for caregivers who have collected years of data and KNOW their cat's response to the combination of insulin and food backwards, forwards, and inside out.
Click to expand...

Just so you don't have to go through all of that frustration again, I find it helpful to have everything for a potential hypo event in one place. I have a drawer in my bedroom with the high carb food, karo and an extra box of test strips. You can see how many you go through when you're dealing with those low numbers!
 
Re: 1/12/14 Rocky BG 200mg, +8 after pm shot

One of the experienced advice givers suggested a reduction last night, as well to 1 unit. If it were my cat, I would take that reduction. The first priority is Rock's safety.
 
Re: 1/12/14 Rocky BG 200mg, +8 after pm shot

Fatina Marie said:
One of the experienced advice givers suggested a reduction last night, as well to 1 unit. If it were my cat, I would take that reduction. The first priority is Rock's safety.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I must have missed that post. I was curious why I hadn't seen it!!

But I agree. If it were my cat, I'd also give the reduction. If it fails, you can always increase later on.
 
Re: 1/12/14 Rocky BG 200mg, +8 after pm shot

The problem this morning is that I'm still out of the test strips for my Relion Micro and I think I should test him before I shot. He's suppose to get his morning dose two hours from now.

The 24 hr Walmart is out of stock, no Relion Micro test strips. The other Walmart in town opens at 8AM. CVS near me opens at 7AM (one hr from now) so I'll call them then. Rite Aid across street from CVS probably opens at same time.

If I test Rocky at AMPS +12 and he is in the 200s or higher, I am going to give him the 1.5 units. Altogether, I fed him one can and a half of the high carb Friskies Beef and Gray PLUS about one TSP of Karo overnight.

don't know where that 30mg reading came from one hr after the 81mg reading. I kind of don't believe that 30mg reading.

I do know that I might not make it if I don't get some sleep PDQ. I-)

**Just checked online. CVS nor Rite Aid carry Relion test strips. Called 24 hr Walmart and they said if they have any in back stock they will be in their pharmacy and it doesnt' open until 9AM. WTF! angry(2)_cat
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky BG 200mg, +8 after pm shot

Tina

What a night you had.

First and most importantly, please do not shoot 1.5u today. While sometimes we do shoot through the bounce with an old dose after a kitty has earned a reduction, I do not think it is safe for you to do so with Rocky. I'd really suggest you drop him to 1u and give it a try. It's safer to do that and drain his depot and then have to increase his dose than to have him continue to drop early to the 30s. He earned a reduction last night and we do not dose on the preshot number.

You can buy test strips from American Diabetes Wholesale that work in the Relion Micro. They are the Arkray Glucocard 1 strips, I believe. They are much cheaper and you can stockpile them. Arkray makes the Relion Micro meter. I never ever have less than 300 strips around here.

Lastly, when you go to Walmart, I'd suggest you also purchase a backup Micro meter. Most of us have backups. You never know when something could happen to your meter. I like to tell the funny story about when we were new. I had an all nighter with Gracie and when I went to warm up the rice sock for her ear for her AMPS test, in my sleep starved haze, I put her meter in the microwave instead of the rice sock shock: and so I had to wait for CVS to open to get a new meter. Now I have five ;-) :lol:

I know you ran out of strips but if you had had them, any time you get a low or high number that doesn't seem to fit, take a second and retest. The other morning I got a 379 and Gracie has not been that high since early days. So I retested with two other meters and she was around 200.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky BG 200mg, +8 after pm shot

By giving him the same amount (1.5 units) as last night, you're risking him dropping that far again. Lantus doses aren't based on the higher preshot numbers because it is a depot insulin. You're shooting the dose for what his lowest number is. The preshot test just shows whether his BG is safe enough to shoot right now.

It's confusing, but giving him that much insulin is risky since he dropped so far down last night. And you've had two nights back to back where he has bottomed out into those potentially dangerous numbers.

It's up to you, of course but please be prepared with plenty of high carb food and test strips because you're likely going to have another dive into the 40/50s. Shooting the 1 unit that another experienced advice giver suggested is safest for Rocky.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky BG 200mg, +8 after pm shot

i absolutely agree on reducing the dose. you must not give the 1.5u again or you will very likely be repeating last night's low numbers dance today or tonight. dosing decisions are made by the low point.

wait until you've got test strips, test him, and then if he's 150 or higher give 1.0u.

if he's lower than 150, don't feed him or shoot him. post here and ask for help.

i'm on my way out to work. hope you have a good day.
 
Re: Didn't test Rocky = Gave the 1.5 units

I'm sorry everyone. I did the wrong thing.

I fed him the canned NVIV and then gave him the 1.5 units just moments ago.

Hopefully Walmart will have the Relion Micro strips I need when their pharmacy opens. I checked the Relion site last night and their strips must go with specific monitor types. I will buy a second Relion for a back-up when I'm at Walmart. The other strips you suggested, can I get those at Walmart? The problem is I need everything

RIGHT NOW!! ​

It's probably not a good sign when in the 45 minutes deep sleep you just had that you were dancing and laughing like a drunken fool with your old H.S. sweetheart and woke up laughing out loud. haha_smiley :shock:

Need to go get dressed to head to the store. Will check Rocky when I get home then I've got to sleep for at least 4 hours. Delirious :dizcat .
 
Re: Didn't test Rocky = Gave the 1.5 units

Oh wow another all nighter! i too think you could have a busy day again.

On the backup meter you might want too get a different meter for you backup, that way if you can't get strips for one you probably can for the other. If you have ta Target near you you can get their Up & Up meter, about the same $$ for the meter and strips as the relion. This meter is the same as the Agamatrix Presto, strips are $20 at Target, but only about $10.50 online.

Also wen you get an off reading like that do another test right away, sometimes too little or too much blood on the strip will give a very off reading, so test again right away.
 
Re: Didn't test Rocky = Gave the 1.5 units

Hi Ann,

Yes, going on 48 hrs of no sleep.

I bet that is what happened to give the low reading. There was a lot of blood that came from that last lance prick when I got that 30mg. . He cried. It was the only time the entire two days that much blood came out.

I WANTED to do a second reading right then, but when I turned the bottle over for another test strip nothing came out! :shock: I started shaking it and then I looked inside. I had no more test strips left.

I have a cat basket full of medical supplies and I looked in it for a second bottle of the test strips but didn't find one. I swear that I had another one. I wonder where and when I'll find it. :roll:

Suggestions from everyone for a good high carb GRAVY cat food? Thank you again for all of you help. I have really needed it.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none) +2 374mg

1/13/14 AMPS (none) +2 374mg

So, wasn't able to test Rocky for his +12 this morning because I did not have test strips for my monitor. Fed him at his regular time and then gave him the 1.5 units he was originally prescribed. I had a feeling that he had just a tad too much of the carbs last night to warrant reducing the dose. I'm praying that it doesn't go up to some number I've never seen before..

Twice I stuck that lance into the front toe that isn't used but no blood came out. (I accidentally bought the 33 lance last night instead of the 30.) Even though not used that toe pad is dry and not delicate.

I had to poke Rocky in the ear again. Looks like I'm sticking with the ear, darn it. He's really starting to not like it.

Does anyone have good advice about the poking of the toes?

I'm going to bed now for at least 2 hours. I-)
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none) +2 374mg

Hi Tina,

Glad Rocky's number is higher. He's likely bouncing from such low numbers.

If you were to run out of strips again and you can't get a preshot number, it's safer to skip the shot. The higher numbers are safer in the short term than the lower numbers. A lot of us have dealt with those high numbers, and while they aren't great, they're better than 30. If I had to guess the combo of high carb food, karo and vet stress led to the 222 at the vet.

I understand your concern about the high carb food you gave him last night, but that food coupled with the low numbers probably canceled each other out. The carbs in the food clears the system much quicker than the insulin since it's a depot insulin. So you shouldn't worry about the higher carb food when considering the dose. Take another look at the TR protocol regarding reducing his dose to 1 unit. If it were me, I'd rather deal with some slightly higher numbers than a run to the emergency vet over and over again.

The Arkray strips at Americandiabeteswarehouse.com fit the Micro. The Micro and Confirm strips are interchangeable. ADW is quick on shipping and much cheaper than the strips at Walmart.

I don't know much about pricking them in their pad to get blood, although I've read it can become infected when they get in the litter box. Cobb wasn't happy about the ear pricked either, but the ears do learn to bleed he more you poke them. Try heating up a rice sock and putting it on the underside as you poke. Other people have good suggestions too.

Hope you get some sleep.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none) +2 374mg

Foods in pouches usually have a lot of gravy even if it doesn't appear i the name, Fancy Feast also has a gravy lovers line. I like the Wellness pouches, they are really medium carb 11-14% but you can pour the gravy out easily and Tess doesn't need higher carbs to bring her up usually although yesterday was an exception! ohmygod_smile Most of the carbs are in the gravy so just the gravy from the pouches would actually be higher carb than the contents as a whole.

Every time you test give Rocky a treat even if you don't get blood, cats quickly associate testing w/ treats and will even purr through the process. I've never needed to test on the paw so I can;t help there. I know he has skin conditions which make it harder to test the ears, neosporin w/ pain relief will help a lot. I don't know too much about skin conditions and what is safe for cats, a lot of the things we use can't be used on them. I have heard of members using silver salve as a safe, soothing treatment. Most of us add water to the canned food, it never hurts to do so and the only down side would be if the cat doesn't like it that way. It will help w/ dehydration which can be part of the skin problem, I even add water to my civvies food. Cats have a low thirst drive and are often dehydrated.

On the treats, bonito flake are good, my cats don't really care for them though. I mentioned the freeze dried chicken before I think. I get the store brand from PetSmart, Simply Nourish:Single ingredient, chicken. (Be careful they make one w/ sweet potato that has an almost identical package!) The dog treats are a larger package and much cheaper than the cat treats. I just cut them up. Depending on what Rock likes they have liver, fish and shrimp too.

BTW where do you live? From the time you are on the west coast somewhere? If you let us know there may be someone in the area who can help in person.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none) +2 374mg

I don't think I've said hello yet, so hello! My vet told me to use the upper paw pad (the one higher up more on the leg), not the toes, since it doesn't touch the floor or litter. I've never used it but sometimes my kittys ears are sensitive so I've thought about it :razz: The treats do help, like Ann said :cool:

I don't have any suggestions for HC gravy foods, I use the Weruva Cats in the Kitchen pouches. They are between 12 and 18 so I guess those are more MC than HC I guess. Have you seen the food charts yet? I haven't read through all your posts, but just in case you haven't seen it, it's here, use the third column from the left for carbs in the calorie % column: http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf It's from Dr. Lisas website at catinfo.org. I hope you're getting some sleep :-D
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none) +2 374mg

It's always a lot cheaper to buy strips online than retail. It is nice to have the option to run out for more strips in an emergency though. The Relion and the Target Up & Up (same as the AgaMatrix Presto) were Top Picks from Consumer Reports in their last comparison. What I like about the Target meter is that I can get the strips at ADW for just over $10 a box, but in an emergency I can go to Target and they even have 25 strip boxes for $10 to tide you over. I can also get them even cheaper on eBay sometimes. I think Walgreen has them too. I like having options. :lol: :lol:

I have an extra meter if you want it and a bunch of extra 30 gauge lancets that I got free w/ an eBay order of strips (we use 33gauge). PM me your address and I'll send them to you.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none) +2 374mg

Frank did not much care for the ear sticking and being a feral didn't help. We had to kitty burrito him (wrap him in a blanket with only his head sticking out) for at least the first month. Now, after giving him a treat of baked chicken cubes after each stick, we shake the strip container and he jumps up in the spot we go to test and submits willingly.

Being too high is not good on a consistent basis, high numbers need to be treated because they can slowly kill a cat. A true hypo episode is an emergency, though and can kill a cat quickly. You want to always err on the side of caution. If it were me, I would run the risk of having Frank run high for a cycle because of a missed shot rather than risk a potential hypo. You live and you learn though. Good luck wth the decrease!
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none) +2 374mg

I wanted to add too, Frank's ears are all chewed up, as well, for similar reasons. As said before, he does fine with it now. You'll get better at it and learn just how deep you need to go, and his ears will start to bleed easier. We don't even warm his ears anymore. It has been one heck of a few days for you but it will not always be like this. Getting all your supplies at hand will help exponentially as will getting to a more appropriate dose for Rocky.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none) +2 374mg

Ann, Fatina Marie, and Cobbsman, (I think I'm forgetting someone.)

Thank you for all of the great advise! Unfortunately for now at least I am going to need to continue the pokey pokey with Rocky's ears. I even have a hard time drawing blood from them.

I will go get some of the pouched foods today so that I can easily pour out the gravy. Is it wrong to give the Friskies that also has the meat in it? Wouldn't we want to elevate the BG for longer and wouldn't the gravy just be a quick fix?

I am on the West coast. I live in Elk Grove, California which is a suburb of Sacramento.

I will recheck Rock at AMPS +6, which is just in a few minutes, and then re-post. He looks a little sleepy right now but I think it's from being awake for nearly 2 days with me. We both need a break from this or we're going to get very sick, very fast.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none) +2 374mg

Good afternoon Tina. The only thing wrong with giving the meat when kitty is in low numbers is that you might fill him up. You want him to be a little hungry in case he stays low and you need to feed him again. Once kitty is in higher numbers, you can give low carb food to help keep in in good numbers.

The Neosporin w/Pain Relief (gel) is great for helping to heal the ears. You dab a bit on before the poke to help bead up the blood or after to soothe the site.

For this evening, DO NOT GIVE 1.5 UNITs - no matter what his reading is. He has told you that is too much insulin. Lantus dosing decisions are based on the low point of the cycle. Several experience members have suggested 1.0 units as the new dose. If in doubt, what you should do is test before your evening shot time, but do not feed or shoot, and post here and ask for advice.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none taken) +2 374 +6 311

Tina, we poke a Cobb's ears. When we first started we had a meter that required a TON of blood. The Micro/Confirm require a lot less. That's why I went with the Confirm.

One thing that worked for us was to put hot water in an empty prescription bottle and hold it the inside of Cobb's ear. It was warm and it gave us something to poke into. My husband was successful in rubbing Cobb's ears until they were warm, which helped the blood flow.

We did find that the more we tested, the better his ears bleed now. Are you using a 28 or 29 gauge lancet? They are larger and easier to get a drop of blood. As it gets easier, you can go to a thinner lancet. Cobb doesn't love getting his ear poked, but he tolerates it fairly well. Unless we have trouble with the ear poke, I don't even think he feels it.

It will get easier to test!

~Suzanne
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none taken) +2 374 +6 311

Hi Wendy,

His +6 reading was 311, so coming down again. That makes me happy. I was worried he might continue to go back up but it looks like it is on it's way down again, just maybe not so fast this time.

To all: I gave him (1)tsp of fresh sardine in spring water for his treat after the poke. He really likes that. dancing_cat I'm sorry if I haven't told you before but I have been using the Neosporin. It doesn't help him to like the pokey pokey any better.

I've got a lot to still get done today so will not be about to check him again until his pre-check at night. That's in about 5 hours. Can someone be here to advice before his evening shot, just in case his number has jumped to the 400s? I don't feel like it will though, but feelings are a funny thing, they change all of the time. :-D


OK experienced users, I promise to give Rocky only 1.0u at +12 tonight. \M/

**What will happen to my Rocky if he's still in the 300 range at pre-shot +12 tonight, and I then give him the 1.0u instead of 1.5u, and then he goes WAY UP to like 500? He's never been that high.. I'm scared of those high numbers too because he went DKA in the mid 400s. (He did have a very nasty ear infection then too though)
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none taken) +2 374 +6 311

What time, Pacific Standard time, is your shot time? Looks like 8PM if this was your +6. There are lots of people usually on then. At the time, change your first subject line to be something like 1/13 Rocky PMPS xxx DOSE?? where XXX is what you tested.

The recipe for DKA is a combination of infection, not eating enough and not enough insulin. Sounds like Rocky's infection is cleared up, he's eating well and he's now getting too much insulin. I never say never, but he should be OK now. A temporary visit to 500 (it won't last long) is safer than being too low.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none taken) +2 374 +6 311

He will evetually associate pokey with the treat. I though people here were crazy when they said he would eventually be ready to do it without the kitty burrito, but lo and behold...if I am late with a stick, he asks for it.

I am thinking, if he is 400 or 600, it does not matter, shoot 1 unit anyway. You just need to worry about him being in lower numbers. They suggest that when you are new, don't shoot below 200, unless you have someone here to talk you through complications. I am not yet comfortable giving advice on shooting low numbers. Maybe someone more experience can help you with that. Like Wendy said, if you have any questions, ask before you feed or shoot. If you have to wait 15 minutes for a response, don't panic. You will not create an emergency situation by holding off, at least for that long. You are more likely to encounter problems if you go ahead and shoot an iffy number.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none taken) +2 374 +6 311

Hi Wendy,

I am on Pacific Standard Time. Rocky gets his shots at 8AM and 8PM. I thought each of those shots were called +12 but the AM one was written: AMPS? I can't remember the evening one. It is also +12 added to it though, right? Or is it a 24hr clock?

Sorry, I'm exhausted and formatting always a lot for me to learn anyway with everything. :oops:

Please do give an example here so I know how to post that evening pre-shot number.

Thank you! :YMHUG:
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none taken) +2 374 +6 311

Something like: 1/13 Frank PMPS 256 dose?

And just edit the title of your original post.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none taken) +2 374 +6 311

You are right, if you haven't done the shot yet, it's called a +12. So your example would be:

1/13 Rocky AMPS (none) +2 374 +6 311 +12 xxx

The other notation people use is PMBG for PM blood glucose. That also signals to people that you haven't given the shot yet. You could also say:
1/13 Rocky AMPS (none) +2 374 +6 311 PMBG xxx

Either description works. After we've done the evening shot, we usually take off the AM numbers to give room for the PM ones.

Yes, there is a lot to learn. You will get it. We've all been there so keep asking questions.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none taken) +2 374 +6 311

To explain the hours a bit more...

We work on a 12 hour clock. Your AM Pre-Shot (AMPS -- or PMPS) is where the clock starts. Each hour is a +hour. So 3 hours after your AM shot is your +3 all the way up to +11. If you give a shot 12 hours past your AMPS, that test result prior to the test is your PMPS. The numbers start over until your AMPS.

If you have to delay a shot for any reason, you maintain the actual +hour time. So if your shot is 2 hours late, you might note that it's +14. Since you didn't shoot this morning, the 374 is you +14 and the 311 is your +18. Wendy also provided an alternative by using the AMBG notation.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none) +2 374mg

Tina , I'm down in Nipomo, just south of San Luis Obispo! :-D :-D Not too far, but not close enough to run over and help either.

you will get to know how carbs effect Rocky, some cats react much more quickly to them. I know for Tess that 1 drop of honey will bring her up 20 points for 2 hours. MC gravy not so fast a rise but it will last for several hours, HC food and she is up for a day and dry food can keep BG elevated for several days before it is out of the system. It also takes much longer to take effect (harder for them to digest) so not much help in dealing w/ low numbers. ECID though! ;-)

You need to take care of yourself too, otherwise there won't be anyone to take care of Rocky. Another reason to take the reduction.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none taken) +2 374 +6 311

Sienne and Gabby said:
To explain the hours a bit more...

……… Since you didn't shoot this morning, the 374 is you +14 and the 311 is your +18. Wendy also provided an alternative by using the AMBG notation.
Click to expand...

Sienne, she did give a shot this morning, she didn't get a test. She ran out of strips last night and Walmart didn't have any either! So the 374 is +2 and the 311 is +6.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none taken) +2 374 +6 311

Hi tina!

i just want to restate what a couple of people have already said, because it's confusing and people have a hard time understanding this. But it is critically important to understand.

Lantus dosing is based upon the LOW point of the previous few cycles.

So it doesn't matter how high a cat is, we DON'T increase the dose because we see high numbers. we look at the low points - the 30's that Rocky has been in the last couple of nights are like flashing red lights to the rest of us!

A experienced person might deviate from that guideline and increase based upon high numbers, but Rocky is a newly diagnosed cat and we haven't even gotten him through a few days without having to skip a dose. We don't want to increase him based on high numbers.

Sienne likens dosing changes to steering a barge. It's slow but steady. You can't use Lantus to hammer down high numbers. It will get them down, but waiting often also brings them down. Waiting & monitoring is an important part of what we do. If you weren't patient before, FD teaches it to all of us.

So regardless of how high he is tonight, reduce to the 1.0u dose and stay there unless you see a less than 50 BG number. If you see a preshot of 150 or less, please DON'T feed him, OR give him insulin. Post here and wait til someone can help you decide what to do.

I'd encourage you to keep asking questions - you can't really trust your intuition on dosing yet because you just don't have enough knowledge or experience. In another 2 weeks, you'll know a ton more, but for right now, people will be happy to guide you with every shot decision.

There has also been a lot of good advice given to you in this post and in the other one - if you could make the time to go back and reread it this evening, it would probably be very helpful to you.
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky AMPS(none taken) +2 374 +6 311

Tina

I'll be around for your shot time. You probably want to test about 15 minutes before you shoot and then if the number is 150 or lower, as Julie said, don't feed and post for help. If he's still high, do not panic. Just shoot the 1u and feed him and then post and we can talk about the high number, why it is high, etc. etc.

Did you get plenty of strips today?
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky +10 & 1/2 311mg

Just got home from feeding feral colonies, buying food and litter. Now feeding crew inside of the house.

Rocky looked a little tired when I checked in on him, didn't get his customary talking to me and he remained laying down so I decided to test him. He is maintaining the 311mg from a few hours ago. He got 1 tsp of sardine for letting me poke his ear.

I will recheck him in one hour 7:45pm, that's about +12 because I try to give the shot a little after 8PM, after he's finished eating.

If he should need it, I bought 3 pouches of the Wellness Chicken, Crab, Herring combo. I hope he likes this gravy. If not, I still have about 3 cans of the Friskies Beef and Gravy.

I bought a pkg of 100 strips today. That should be enough for tonight? I sure hope so.. I wouldn't want to poke his ear 100 times tonight. :sad:

I will be back in one hour. It looks like I will be giving 1.0 u if he is still in the 300s in one hour, at +12. I will post before I do anything and wait for your reply.

Thank you! :YMHUG:
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky +10 & 1/2 311mg

glad to hear you were able to get those strips! i was thinking that 30 last night at +8 was a bad strip. it does happen occasionally.

the most i ever used in one day was 22, i think. i thought 50 was a lot when i started, but soon learned to keep an unopened box of 50 back in a cupboard, just in case. i bought 250 or 500 at a time from AmericanDiabetesWholesale. btw, if you want to buy from there, you can register first at mrrebates.com and you will get a 4% rebate back after your purchases at ADW.
 
Re: 1/13 Rocky +6 311 PMBG 299

Hi Marje,

Rocky still slowly dropping, at +12 299.

Go ahead and feed him his zero carb NVIV, right? What about the shot? Will wait to hear from you about both food and the shot.

Thank you!!
 
Re: 1/13 Rocky +6 311 PMBG 299

While you're not in a crisis, i had a couple of things for you. *whew* nice to not be in a crisis tonight, isn't it?! :-D

I looked up your foods so you would have the carb info on them. Some people write the carb % on the can/pouch with a sharpie so when you need to know, it's right there.

If the Wellness is Healthy Indulgence pouches, the http://www.catinfo.org site lists the Crab and Herring pouch as 9% carbs. There isn't an entry there for chicken, crab and herring, so it might or might not be the same. technically, everything under 10% is considered low-carb, although most people feed closer to 5%. 9% wouldn't be something you'd turn to if you were dealing with low numbers. It might be good for keeping around to tempt him to eat if Rocky doesn't have an appetite at some point. But it's not going to work for a high carb food.

the Friskies has a zillion different varieties. I can't find the Medley variety that you mentioned yesterday. I'm not sure which beef and gravy you have now, so put all of them here:

Savory Shreds Beef and Gravy lists as 15%
Meaty Bits Beef in Gravy is 19%
Gravy Sensations Beef and Chicken in Gravy is 18%
Prime Fillets with Beef in Gravy is 19%

All of the Friskies Selects Indoors are all much higher in carbs - that would be a good thing to have when you need to bring him up. They range from 29% to 36%. A little goes a long ways with that. I have no idea how much gravy they have, but you can always give the food.

The Friskies Tasty Treasures are all either 20-21% carbs.

In any case, most of us print out the chart and take it to the store to choose foods.

I know Marje was doing Rockey's spreadsheet for you yesterday. Is there something giving you trouble that we can help you with? We are very data-driven and refer to people's spreadsheets all the time, so it's important to keep it up to date.

Hope you're getting a chance to breathe tonight. :-D
 
Re: 1/13 Rocky +6 311 PMBG 299 +2 310

Hi Marje,

So at +2 we're back at 310. I don't feel like we're going to reach some sky high number tonight, but you never know. :roll:

Julie,

I haven't input any data into Rocky's SS because for the past nearly 60 hours I've barely slept. I haven't even had time to look at it because I take care of so many other cats. I know that you FDMB experts must have it though to interpret what is going on. I praise Marje for her continued support until I can get to a place of normalcy.

I'm not there yet, but working on it. Well, maybe I'll never really be 'normal.' :razz:
 
Re: 1/13 Rocky +6 311 PMBG 299 +2 310

Tina

We often look at the +2 to tell us what kind of cycle it might be. (BTW, I think it got confusing today about PMPS vs PMBG. we use PMPS when we shoot and PMBG when we skip so the 299 tonight is his PMPS since you shot. Anyone looking at your subject line tonight will wonder why you didn't shoot).

Anyway,,,the +2. If it is the same or similar to the PMPS (which it is), it might be an active Lantus cycle where numbers come down. If the +2 is a lot lower than the PMPS, it's going to be a really active cycle (like last night). So I'd just grab a before bed test tonight just to see where he is.

I havent been able to update his SS today. To do his SS, I have to close Gracies SS, sign out of google, sign into your google open Rockys SS, update it by going back and forth to his condo, close it, sign out, sign back I to mine, open Gracies SS. And I keep a lot of data on Gracies SS :lol: I just totally ran out of time and I'm headed for bed now. So sorry but between taking care of Gracie, helping members on the board, and just daily life things.....I just don't have time to keep up someone else's SS too. Really sorry......
 
Re: 1/13/14 Rocky +6 311 PMPS 299 +2 310

Hi Marje,

I changed the subject line to reflect what you just shared. I APPRECIATE YOU SO MUCH in quickly building that SS for me and inputting those numbers when I was having such a stressful time. o:-)

I know that for any experts to be able to continue to help me that I must get this information into Rocky's SS. I finally took a few moments to sit still just now and concentrate on it. I think I might understand how to fill it out now. I have entered all of his BG numbers from last night and all from today so far.

So, if he is in the 200s tomorrow at AMPS, do I give him 1.0u?

I think you've gone to bed. I hope someone else can answer. I'll take at least one more test before I go to bed to see where Rocky is at. I'll also check in with a new condo this time in the morning. I'll keep this one going as long as I'm awake.

Many blessings to you!
 
Re: 1/13 Rocky +6 311 PMPS 299 +2 310

anything over 150, go ahead and give the 1.0u dose. if it's less than 150, post here and ask for help before you feed him and before you shoot.
 
Re: 1/13 Rocky +6 311 PMPS 299 +2 310

Thanks Julie, will do! But I have a feeling he is going to go up tonight and then stay in the 300s.. I don't know why..
 
Re: 1/13 Rocky +6 311 PMPS 299 +2 310

when you see a +2 that is essentially the same as the preshot number, which he is tonight, that points towards what is called an "active Lantus cycle." that means that he probably will go down from it tonight. Here is a glimpse of that from the "New to the Group" sticky:

Example of an active Lantus cycle:

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
+12 - PreShot number.

An active Levemir cycle will have an onset at approximately +4 and a nadir around +8 - +10. However, please keep in mind every cat is different (ECID). Data collection will offer you a better picture of YOUR cat's response to either of these insulins.
Video: Levemir: Mode of Action

Initially, don't expect to see "active" cycles after every single shot whether you're using Lantus or Levemir. Chances are, your kitty had diabetes for some time before diagnosis. It requires time for kitty's body to become used to dropping into lower numbers than their bodies have become accustomed. Don't expect immediate results! Regulation takes time and patience: "Fluctuations are very common in this phase before BGs start to stabilize under consistent dosing: a typical curve of cat over the first 1.5 months on Lantus can be seen here: Lantus Starting Graph".
http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm
Click to expand...
 
Re: 1/13 Rocky +6 311 PMPS 299 +2 310

btw, meters are legally allowed to have a 20% variance. If you were to test the same drop of blood with 3 difference strips using the same meter, you would likely get 3 different numbers.

We'd consider 299 and 310 to be basically the same numbers.
 
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