Random thoughts on a Sunday morning

[Dragonfly229]

Linus has had ugly numbers the last few days, we've only been able to test AMPS and PMPS, but all have been over 400. Before that, even mid-cycle numbers haven't been great.

This morning I dropped back to 2.0u from 2.4u. The last really decent numbers we had were at 1.8u. They weren't low enough, but they were consistent pinks and yellows instead of reds. I will continue to monitor the dog food situation and try to keep him out of it. I am off through Tuesday, and will be in and out to get some testing done, it may not be a full curve, but at least some numbers to go by.

I'm just going to throw this idea out there for discussion. Linus loves dry food. He is driving us crazy sneaking dog food, and he tries to get into the container where I keep the EVO 8% that I bought when he was diagnosed. I have no idea what he is nibbling on outside, grass, bird seed, horse feed, who knows? He was fed Nutro dry free choice before all this happened. Is there any possibility of getting a cat somewhat regulated who is eating dry food? I know it would probably take more insulin. I'm thinking the sneaking of other foods would stop, and he would only eat his food. He didn't eat dog food until we took away his dry food.

So, hypothetically, he would be eating dry, but only HIS dry, and low carb dry. We could supplement with canned, we could feed canned with dry left out between meals, we could feed strictly dry. The question is, could it work? I'm feeling like I've followed the program, I'm doing the best I can with food and testing and small increases. I could lock him in a room "for his own good", but I hate to take his life away to save his life. I don't think he would think it was worth it. And I'm not sure I would get dramatic results even if I did.

Thanks everyone for listening - I'm not trying to make trouble, just open up a discussion. Hoping for great numbers for everyone today!

 

[Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)]

Is there any possibility of getting a cat somewhat regulated who is eating dry food?

Hi, Sue.
I would have to say "yes" because nothing is 100% certain. But honestly, I don't know the answer to this question. If "somewhat regulated" is your goal, then I would go so far as to say that I think there is that possibility. Again, I don't know, but I would be skeptical that "remission" was a likely end result. I did see this thread in Health recently that might help you out:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69589

Carl

 

[Dragonfly229]

Carl, given the lack of any dramatic response so far, do you think remission is even in the realm of
possibility? I'm thinking that what I need to shoot for is quantity and quality of life.

 

[Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)]

Sue, I never want to put a damper on anyone's hopes. That said, (and this is probably easy for me to say since Bob is OTJ), when I found out he was diabetic, "remission" was mentioned, but I don't know if my vet really believed it was going to happen. She was kind enough not to tell me that. At the point where he was, and his DKA episode, my goal was to save his life, and I wasn't thinking past that. I went into this expecting that for the rest of his life, he would need two shots a day, and as long as I could keep him breathing, and know that he had a good life, that's all I wanted.
Luckily, things went well for him, and as the numbers came down, I became bound and determined that he was going to get "all better". But that wasn't an goal or an expectation for me at the start of the dance. Nothing I did made that happen. It just happened, more in spite of my fumbling than because of it.

I will say that Linus (and you) have a better chance than I did, because you are "here" and I wasn't at that time. People here know more about the right way to do this than my vet did or still does (although I credit her immensely, and know that she saved Bob's life).

I'm thinking that what I need to shoot for is quantity and quality of life.

And I think that is an admirable thing to shoot for. That doesn't mean you shouldn't shoot higher of course. There's no doubt in my mind that you can give him many more healthy years, however, even if remission never happens.

I'm liking the reduction today. I have a feeling that your gut is right, and that a lower dose is the way to go. His numbers may not have been super fantastic on a lower dose, but they were better.

Carl

 

[Dragonfly229]

Carl, thank you so much. Today's numbers are a little more encouraging, AMPS was 404, he dropped to 293 at +2.5, I just got home and tested at +7.5 and he was 310. That 293 is the first yellow in a while, even though it's a high yellow. I'll stay the course - watching the dogs food like a hawk and testing for the next few days to see if I get the hoped for decrease.

 

[Holly and Josie]

This is an interesting thread. So Linus is an indoor/outdoor cat which obviously makes him happy. And you are thinking that he misses his dry food SO much that he is getting into dog food, horse feed, etc.? And your theory is that by giving him his low carb dry food he will maybe stop eating the other stuff, which is most likely worse for him? But you feel bad, because dry food is obviously not the preferred diet? Just making sure I understand your situation!

Honestly, I probably would give it to him. Yeah, wet food is better. But if he is going to eat dry food anyway, dry food that is worse, what is the point in withholding? AND if you are going to ruin his happiness/quality of life by not allowing him to go outside, which he has always done, what's the point in that also? You may not achieve remission with the dry. But a well-regulated cat is a great thing, too. And you have a chance at that with the Evo, I think. It's still lowish carb. Every cat is different and every situation is different and you've gotta go with what works best for you and your cat.

 

[RobbiesMom]

How old is Linus? If he's 10 or above maybe he's ready for a life style change? While my cats were outside cats my entire childhood when I was living on my own it was in an apartment and I had no choice but to make the cat I got an indoor cat. She lived a wonderfully happy life for about 20 years. During those years I moved into my own house and although she was 18 at the time I offered her to go outside a bit, carefully, she had no interest. So Ok she didn't know it and didn't want to be bothered.
When I got my next cat she was a purebred Maine Coon - I signed an agreement that I wouldn't let her outdoors - theft, disease, cars, other animals etc. being the concerns of the breeder who felt life was less dangerous indoors and just as enjoyable if she had plenty of toys and open screened windows when possible etc. So I opted for getting a harness and taking her out on that - she was OK with it but really just chewed on grass and threw up a lot. So over the years we stopped. I make sure both cats (I now have two) have windows with bird feeders viewable right outside them (we call it Kitty TV) and a cat tree to climb and plenty of activity toys - and they are extremely happy cats.
Outside there are all sorts of things they could eat and get sick, other animals to contend with, cars that drive way too fast etc. I know plenty of outdoor for life cats who by the time they were in their teens didn't really want the outdoors (my childhood cat was an outdoor cat for 15 years and than spent the last 5 using a LB and sitting indoors - her choice when she just stopped going out one day and dug around in a plant to pee - got her a LB and she was good to go for the next 5 years). Maybe Linus could become an indoor cat - than no fear of him getting into horse feed (man THAT can't be good) just a thought, I know some people are passionate about their cats being allowed to go outside - and I respect that. As for the doggie kibble - well, lock that away and put him in a room with a locked door while the dog eats - we do that with our other cat while she eats the high carb food - it's brief and painless for them both.
Personally for me the goal is always to get Robbie OTJ - it happened once so I believe it could happen again - but if it doesn't I want him to be in the lowest safe numbers possible. I also firmly believe the dry food isn't JUST bad for the BG control - it messes with them in many other ways. Robbies skin, hair and eyes all got better when we switched to wet food - it took a while but it was amazing. Then he went OTJ - it was like icing on the cake.
Can you compensate for dry food by upping the insulin? Sure I guess that's possible - but than what is that doing to him? I don't know - not an expert in that area so I'll let others if so inclined give some info there - I'm sure you'll get plenty of support here for how to adjust dose to keep Linus an outdoor, dry food eating diabetic cat with a happy, healthy life - it is really a quest for a life of quality isn't it? Hope things go well with Linus, it is so frustrating when they just don't seem to be responding the way we expect them to.