Raise AGAIN? ☝nadir? 3/12 Rocky PMPS 398 +2 311 +6 360

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Tina & Rocky

Tina & Rocky

Member Since 2013
Good morning, ~O)

It was a nice surprise to see Rocky in the yellow again at AMPS +11, and then still dropping at 3/12 AMPS time to 240. I fed him 1/4 can of NVIV with (1) TBS of water added to it. He was very happy to eat it. He got his shot at 10:30am.

I have a hair appointment at 12:30pm today so instead of giving the remaining can of food for every hour, I am going to have to give it to him for every 1/2 hr until I leave here at 12pm.

I wish that this would get him regulated.

Rocky recap for yesterday:
AMPS 315 +2 395 +4 340 +9 356
PMPS 360 +2 346 +6 362 +11 80
 
Re: 3/12 Rocky AMPS 241

Nice sunny start for Rocky today!

Looks like he still might be trying to clear a bounce from the greens on 3/9, but if you don't see some better nadirs today, it might be time for a dosecrease again.

Hey Rocky!! There's a dosecrease threat out here! Better pay attention!!!

Rocky's just a very bouncy kitty and there's not much we can do about it since he's in charge. I know it's awful frustrating to see those icky black and red numbers, but they're not supposed to be as bad when they're caused by bouncing.

Hang in there Tina. We all wish our kitties would just get with the program, but as you can see, there are a lot of us still here, months and even years after the diagnosis still trying!

In Tight Regulation, the goal really is supposed to be keeping their BG readings in a narrow, normal range, not necessarily going OTJ...although when it happens, it's a wonderful bonus!
 
Nadir at +6? Re: 3/12 Rocky AMPS 241 +2 320 +4 360

Thanks Chris!

Well, it's Ok if I have to do a dosecrease because I am increasing his food intake. I kind of expected that would happen.

I am going to do my best to space the feedings like one time every hour from pre-shot to +3, both in the AM and the PM. Today though I had a hair appointment so he got most of his first can of food around his AM shot. The last 1/4 can of HIS first can of food was at 2:30pm this afternoon, so at +4 for him.

I am going to move his PM shot time back to 10pm tonight as well. Rocky gets another one can of food tonight. So, he will be eating at 10pm, 11pm, 12pm and 1am.. Whew.. that's why I want to get his shot time moved to the way it used to be at 9am -9pm.

The Nadir is at +6?
 
Re: 3/12 Rocky AMPS 241 +2 320 +4 360

The nadir can be anywhere, but it's usually "around" +6

Each cat is different, and each cycle can be too. Just because your cat has their nadir at +6 on one cycle, doesn't mean the next cycle will have it at +6. That's one of the fun little things that makes FD so tricky

The more data you get, the more likely you are to know when your cat "typically nadirs", so it's important to get tests at different times until you learn that, and then get spot tests at different times during the cycle to help "fill in the blanks".

Usually, increasing food shouldn't mean increasing insulin, but it can. Why are you increasing his food?

If you prefer the 9/9 schedule for testing/feeding/shooting, why don't you just take a couple of days and slowly move him? If you are currently shooting at 10/10, you could start in the morning and shoot at 9:45, and then 9:30 tomorrow night. Friday morning you'd shoot at 9:15am, and then Friday night, you'd shoot at 9pm...and then you're back on the 9/9 schedule.

I think you're fine to increase tonight to 1.75 unit too. His nadirs are still running a little too high, so it's time for a dosecrease
 
Re: 3/12 Rocky AMPS 241 +2 320 +4 360 +7 409 +9 440

So Chris, I thought it was OK to move 1/2 hour each day, but only once a day? For instance, last night I gave him his shot at 10:30pm instead of 11pm. This morning, I gave him a shot at 10:30pm, but tonight I will give him a shot at 10pm. That is OK too,right?

Rocky's BG is so high right now and he is SO lethargic. Although I was very interested in eating his very small treat after the poke, I can tell that he doesn't feel well.
 
Re: Dosecrease? 3/12 Rocky AMPS 241 +2 320 +4 360 +7 409 +9

Yes, you can either move it 15 minutes per cycle, or 30 minutes per day, so if you shot at 11am yesterday morning, and 10:30pm last night, you would have shot at 10:30 this morning, and can go back the next 30 tonight...so 10pm
 
Re: 2nd Dosecreasea, ☝ nadir? 3/12 Rocky PMPS 398 +2 311 +6

Oh, I'm sorry Chris I didn't see that you asked why I was increasing Rocky's food. Well, he weighs 13.3 pounds. Although he's not ribs, I've been thinking for awhile that maybe with his big bone structure that he should weigh 15 pounds. So 15 pounds is what I am aiming for now. :cool:

And the reason I thought that I should increase his insulin dose when he receives more food is because the vets really wanted me to give him his insulin shot right after he ate,and told me that I should only feed Rocky 2x per day. I thought with more feedings he should then get more insulin??

So, his nadir is STILL over 300.. that means I should raise his dose AGAIN, right away, correct?
 
The amount of food and amount of insulin are unrelated. The amount of carbs and the amount of insulin ARE related, however. The amount of insulin is totally dependent on the individual cat. It's not a matter of a large cat needing more insulin than a tiny kitty. The bottom line is that no matter how much or how little insulin you're giving, the dose is what your cat needs and every cat is different in that (and many other) regards.
 
Tina, since you just increased to 1.75, you just hold that same dose for at least 6 cycles (Unless he drops below 50), so no, you don't want to increase again right away.

It takes time for the depot to adjust to the new dose, so you have to give it that time.

As for what the vet told you, that's pretty much old thinking, and we hear it a lot. Yes, it's important that when you give insulin, you want to make sure Rocky is eating, but the idea of feeding only 2 times a day isn't true. I do my pre-shot tests, feed China (to make sure she seems to be eating normally) and then give her shot, all within about 5 minutes or so.

Several small meals are easier on the pancreas than 2 big ones, so most of us decide how much our cats need to be eating, then divide it into 2-3 feedings per cycle. Many feed after the pre-shot test, then at +1 and +2 (or something similar) so that most of the food is given in the first half of the cycle, while the insulin is going to be working it's best. After about +6, it's starting to wear off, so adding food later than that just makes it harder to keep his numbers down.

Most of our cats are skinny at diagnosis. China was basically a furry skeleton. The reason is because without insulin, the food they're eating can't be broken down into the nutrients needed by the cells. Cats eat huge amounts of food trying to get the nutrition they need, but continue to lose weight. Once better regulated, they usually will start to eat less as well as gain weight since they're now getting the insulin they need to break down the food so the cells of their body can use it.

Hold the 1.75 for at least 6 cycles and lets see where Rocky's numbers are in a few days.
 
3 feedings or 4 feeds?? pre-shot, then 1 hr later at +1 & +2

So is that 4 feedings or 3 feeds? I thought I was suppose to try 4 feeds but is three better? Thanks
 
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