Quick Question on EVO Dry Cat food

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

sulile

Member Since 2012
Just wanted to know the prevailing opinion on the dry EVO Grain Free Turkey & Chicken Formula. I'm trying to find something lower in carbs than the Purina dry DM I've been feeding my Buddy. I bought some EVO Turkey & Chicken Formula today which he seems to like so far (amazing). The Nutritional Analysis on the bag says Carbohydrates 7%. This is almost half of what the dry Purina DM is (I think). Is this fairly accurate? I've also tried the EVO soft canned food, but he does not care for it.

Susan
 
Another dry (when the cat won"t eat canned or raw) with a lower carb level is Wellness Core.
 
Susan - please see my Urinary Tract Health page - specifically Opie's pictures - for reasons why feeding a water-deleted diet to cats very often sets them up for a great deal of pain and suffering.

I find that people give up far too easily when trying to transition their cat to a more appropriately-hydrated diet. Pay me now or pay me later. Of course, the sad part is that these cats really suffer which is far worse than the hit to your wallet. (Note that Opie's vet bill was $4,350.)

Please see the Tips for Transitioning on my website and remember that diet is far more than just about carb content.
 
I think we all know that a wet diet is better for cats. It also can't be argued that millions upon millions of cats have lived long, healthy lives on a dry diet.

Coming to this site makes me want to throw in the towel sometimes. People do the best they can with the resources they have. We aren't all perfect pet owners with unlimited time and resources to devote to our cats. We can't all be home to test 6 times a day, force cats to eat what we want them to, and monitor the box each time they go to ensure that not the slightest change has occurred.

Two of my five cats refuse canned food. I guess I'm horrible.
 
Thanks for the responses. Yes, I realize wet food is the best choice, but just wondering if the EVO dry would be better than the Purina DM.
Buddy is 16 years old and I'm trying everything I can.

Theoretical question: If a diabetic cat had virtually 0 carbs in their diets, would they still be diabetic? Sometimes I think Buddy would still have high Bg numbers even if he were getting 0 carbs. My vet said he would never go into remission; he has been diabetic and on insulin for 6-7 years now.

Susan
 
sulile said:
Theoretical question: If a diabetic cat had virtually 0 carbs in their diets, would they still be diabetic?
Click to expand...

Some still would be and some wouldn't be, just like in humans it depends on why they became diabetics in the first place. Some it was because of a poor diet, some it was because of steroid use to control other health issues and some are just predisposed to the condition through genetics.

Remission is always just icing on the cake, which sometimes I feel like we get to focused on. While we would all love to see every cat here go into remission the true goal is a HEALTHY HAPPY CAT! If that is remission ...awesome, if that is simple regulation also great. It isn't all about the numbers on a meter it is about the whole kitty.

Are they happy? Are they healthy? Are all 5 Ps in place (purring, preening, peeing, pooing, & playing).

Personally I have 14 cats, 2 of which are diabetics, and yep I had a few hold outs when I switched everyone over to all canned diet but with persistance I managed to get everyone to make the switch. It took a lot of trial and error and a lot of tricks to get them all over but all 14 did eventually switch. It definitely wasn't over night but it can be done.

Yes an all canned diet for 14 cats is expensive if you are just looking at the cost of the food without factoring in the other health benefits, I know personally none of mine have been back to the vets' except for the most routine stuff, and one that we lost to cancer. Before the diet switch I had several cats that were constantly on antibotics for UTIs that kept reoccuring. Litter boxes were almost alway in need of scooping even if I had just done them because everyone was going all the time. Now even with two diabetics in the house I scoop boxes twice a day, now granted I have 16 litter boxes but I also have 14 cats. And ironically I had a friend whose cat passed away give me a big bag of Taste of the Wild dry food, so I figured I would use it up by feeding it to my non-diabetics...half wouldn't touch it and those that wouldn't had been my hold outs when we made the switch, those that did eat it were suffering from loose stools that the smelled so bad that it could peel the paint off the walls. And I was going through twice as much litter as I had been while they were all on a canned diet. Needless to say that bag of dry food got bundled up and donated to a local shelter and my gang went right back to their canned diet.

I truely wish I could post a picture here of my two youngest that have never had a mouthful of dry since they were weaned off their momma that folks could feel, these two have the softest sleekest coats I've even felt on a cat. And both are extremely healthy and if anyone should be sickly it is these two as they were both still-borns that we got breathing again with towels and a blow dryer. Technically they shouldn't be here at all let alone a picture of glowing health.

It is well worth it to me to have taken the time and patience to make the transition, it may not be to everyone. You just have to decide how badly you want it and what your limitation are and then do the best you can with what you have.

As far as unlimited resources...I don't have those either, we are a single income, my husband is our sole source of income and he is a roofer and right now we are in the middle of winter so hours are scarce, but we both feel that we will cut back in other areas than ever put our furry kids back on dry...again that is just us and our decision on how we handle caring for our pets.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
sulile said:
Thanks for the responses. Yes, I realize wet food is the best choice, but just wondering if the EVO dry would be better than the Purina DM.
Buddy is 16 years old and I'm trying everything I can.

Theoretical question: If a diabetic cat had virtually 0 carbs in their diets, would they still be diabetic? Sometimes I think Buddy would still have high Bg numbers even if he were getting 0 carbs. My vet said he would never go into remission; he has been diabetic and on insulin for 6-7 years now.

Susan
Click to expand...

Hi Susan,

My cat has now been diabetic and on insulin for 6 years. He is on a really low carb wet food diet. I've recently introduced him to raw food and his diet now consists of about half low carb canned food and half raw (homemade); so his carbs are pretty minimal... He still needs insulin...although for about 2 days out of 7 he only needs one shot a day because he's able to remain in normal numbers for the rest of the time. And his insulin requirements have reduced considerably.

It is my feeling - given all that I've read - that he will never go into remission. He's been on insulin too long. His pancreas must be in shreds! But...there is a bit of me that SO wants to re-write history and say that a long term insulin-dependent diabetic cat CAN go into remission!!!

My diabetic boy, Bertie, is lounging next to my computer as I type this. He's happy and healthy. His coat positively shines! He has a happy and active life and loves to play. But he happens to need insulin.... I so wish it was different. But it ain't.... Yet.... I would SO love to see a new trend whereby we see LOTS of cats who've been diagnosed with diabetes for a number of years going into remission...

I've not entirely given up on that prospect. I hope you haven't too... ;-)
 
jenwales said:
Coming to this site makes me want to throw in the towel sometimes. People do the best they can with the resources they have. We aren't all perfect pet owners with unlimited time and resources to devote to our cats. We can't all be home to test 6 times a day, force cats to eat what we want them to, and monitor the box each time they go to ensure that not the slightest change has occurred.
Click to expand...

I do agree with this sometimes. I think we all mean well and we all do the best that we can, but that everybody's best is different.
I may be wrong, but I believe in harm reduction, and that there are probably "better" dry foods and "worse" dry foods.
I'm also having trouble getting my husband to go along with all the changes that would be "best" for all my cats. I'd do it all unilaterally, but I really need his help to make this work. So some things may require a compromise, and one of those compromises may end up being a "better" dry food for my civvies.
Yep, call me horrible, too...
 
Dry foods are coated with irresitable yummy ingredient, usually animal digest. That's why many cats get addicted to eating dry food. FortiFlora is basically animal digest and can be used to make canned food more appealing. Others things work for getting cats to eat canned food: crushed up freeze dried meat treats or freeze dried raw, grated cheese, stinky tuna juice, etc. A lot of patience and persistent is needed to get really stubborn dry food addicts to eat at least some canned food.
 
NOBODY should ever feel (or be made to feel) like they are "horrible", and it's sad for me to read that.

Look, we all do what we can. Obviously we all love our cats, or we wouldn't even have gone through the trouble of finding this wonderful place.

Those of us who have been here for any length of time (especially those of us who have been blessed by one or more of our cats going into remission), we all feel that we know what works and what doesn't works. And what keeps us here is wanting to spread that knowledge to every new member that joins. And yes, we can be a bit overzealous at times. Sometimes it is hard to remember what it felt like the first day we arrived. How overwhelmed we were, and how scared that we were that our cats were going to die. My biggest fear was not only that Bob was going to die, but that he would do so becauseI screwed up and did something wrong. It's a pretty scary thing and with the amount of information available on this board, and the number of people who do what they can to chime in whenever someone new comes on board, it's extremely overwhelming.

Susan,
Looking at it from only a "% carbs" standpoint, YES, the EVO is a better choice than the DM. Others have mentioned a couple of options as far as dry food that would be lower carb than the DM.

And yes, looking at things long term, you want to be able to convert your cat (all cats) from eating Kitty Krack and eating only low carb canned food. There are cats that will fight that switch, and continue to fight it for a long time.

Jen and Mb,
You aren't "Horrible" at all. You just haven't been completely successful yet, because you have some hard-core Krack addicts on your hands. All Dr. Pierson is saying, and I've seen her say this many times, is that you have to keep trying. If I'm not mistaken, it took her a year to get one of her kitties to finally see the light. That cat didn't care that Dr. Lisa is a feline nutrition expert, didn't care that it might end up with all sorts of heinous urinary complications, pain and surgery. But Lisa did know that, so she persisted, and eventually, both she and the kitty were "winners".

So, try not to feel like you're "horrible". If you're overwhelmed, don't be afraid to tell people that. But don't stop posting, don't stop trying. You love your cats, and you will continue to try to do everything you can to help them. And "we" will try our best to help you do that.

....off my soapbox....
Carl
 
jenwales said:
...Coming to this site makes me want to throw in the towel sometimes. People do the best they can with the resources they have. We aren't all perfect pet owners with unlimited time and resources to devote to our cats. We can't all be home to test 6 times a day, force cats to eat what we want them to, and monitor the box each time they go to ensure that not the slightest change has occurred.

Two of my five cats refuse canned food. I guess I'm horrible.
Click to expand...

Hi Jennifer,

Oh, I DO sympathise....

I actually stopped posting on this site for a number of years because I felt that I couldn't do things as well as other folks 'seemed' to think I should. In short, I felt I had failed. And I felt this even though I also held a huge amount of gratitude for the help, advice and support that I'd received here (without which, my cat would probably not be alive today....)

But, fairly recently, I realised that my cat had survived a pretty long time - and in good health - and that just maybe I had something to contribute..... So, I started posting again; mostly fairly simple stuff; advice about how to hometest etc...

Not all of us fit the 'ideal pattern' of how feline diabetes should/could progress. But all of us here DO do what we think is in the best interests of the animals in our care.

This forum is a concert of many different voices. Don't ever be afraid to sing out. ;-)

Eliz x
 
Carl & Bob said:
All Dr. Pierson is saying, and I've seen her say this many times, is that you have to keep trying. If I'm not mistaken, it took her a year to get one of her kitties to finally see the light. That cat didn't care that Dr. Lisa is a feline nutrition expert, didn't care that it might end up with all sorts of heinous urinary complications, pain and surgery. But Lisa did know that, so she persisted, and eventually, both she and the kitty were "winners".
Carl
Click to expand...

Well-said, Carl. Thank you.

People often (very often...) give up far too soon and often too easily.
 
Elizabeth, Carl, thank you. I don't mean to come off as a whiner, but this feline diabetes thing is OVERWHELMING. I think we all try very hard to do what's best for our cats. I think a simple, "canned food is definitely best but if you're going to feed dry perhaps these are the best options _________," is preferable to the, "do you want your cat to suffer? Do you?" answers that we get.

For the record, all of my cats are offered canned food. We use mostly Wellness, Evo, and Avoderm and have been feeding them for years. One of my cats will half heartedly lick the juice out of the canned food. One of my cats won't even do that. So be it. She gets Wilderness, Evo, Orijen, or Core depending on what I have on hand. I love her, she's happy. If she becomes diabetic, I'll probably switch her to dry DM. So be that too. :)

I very much appreciate all of the help and assistance that I've received here. Carl, I remember you sitting up late with me when George's BG was 20 and I was panicked, and I'll never forget that. Elizabeth, you've been the ultimate sweetheart since the day I found this site. Bertie is a lucky cat.

Everyone who comes here wants to do the best they can, but one size doesn't fit all. I get all proud of myself on a day when I'm able to test 3 times instead of 2. I've learned not to look at other people's spreadsheets because it just bums me out that I'm not doing "enough."
 
You are taking care of your cats and loving them like crazy that is more than "enough" you do things to the best of your ability that is all any of us can do! I have fought the food battle myself with my older cats and some of them still don't like wet so be it they get the wet that they will eat to fill their bellies they eat dry.
 
I don't mean to come off as a whiner, but this feline diabetes thing is OVERWHELMING. I think we all try very hard to do what's best for our cats. I think a simple, "canned food is definitely best but if you're going to feed dry perhaps these are the best options _________," is preferable to the, "do you want your cat to suffer? Do you?" answers that we get.
Click to expand...

I can get pretty defensive on occasion about seemingly negative comments about the FDMB but I think I understand what you are saying. People on this site can get very passionate and as a result can seem pretty strident and off-putting to a struggling caretaker. Absolutely, let's all be gentle with each other. Just because we are adults doesn't mean we aren't hurt by rather harsh statements, no matter how well they are meant.

Hugs,
Rebecca
 
Rebecca said:
rather harsh statements
Click to expand...

Hello Rebecca,

I re-read my initial post and do not feel that it was "harsh".

I fully realize that this disease can be a nightmare to deal with and anyone with a diabetic cat has more than my deepest sympathy. This disease has to be the **most stressful** disease that my clients ever have to deal with.

But all that said, if what I wrote above is considered too harsh then my passionate personality - and my deep desire to treat the ***whole patient*** , not just his/her diabetes - is definitely not a fit for this board and that is ok. Going forward, I will stick with my website as my sole avenue to help cats. This is the only board that I have ever spent time on but in the future I will restrict my comments to my personal website.
 
Dr. Lisa,
My apologies. I did not mean to indicate YOUR comments were harsh. I was simply commenting on a growing tone from a number of others (in other posts on the board) that seems a bit harsh to many newbies. My clumsiness in not indicating such sentiments is appalling. :oops:

Your input is well-respected, eagerly anticipated, and highly desired. Please don't leave us.

With best wishes and deep gratitude,
_Rebecca
 
Dr. Lisa, don't you dare leave! We have all benefited so much from your posts and all your info on newest health problems, especially with meds, and if anyone (not Rebecca) thinks your posts are harsh, they need to re-read them and realize your main concern is with their cat, not their feelings. All my vets know and it is written on all charts, canned only, no convenia and no metacam. Please don't leave.
 
Rebecca said:
Dr. Lisa,
My apologies. I did not mean to indicate YOUR comments were harsh.
_Rebecca
Click to expand...

I really appreciate your clarification.

What bothers me deeply about some of the responses on this particular thread is the defensiveness and the comments that make anyone - including myself - fearful of reminding people that feeding water-depleted diets does cause a lot of suffering. I intellectually understand the defensiveness but it is not how I would respond to the comments I made in my first post. My personality is such that if I had read what was written above about "cats suffering" I would not have gotten defensive but would simply have learned from the fact-based statement.

The problem with getting defensive is that it serves to make other board members reluctant to remind people to think past the **dietary carb**issue and to remember that the problems associated with **water depletion** are VERY common and VERY significant.

Unfortunately, this is a fact and there is just ***no sugar-coating it.***

As i have stated on other threads, I will bet that if anyone ever had to deal with a cat with a urethral obstruction, +\- subsequent bladder rupture, and their very painful cries, they would be just as passionate as I am about this subject.

To a comment made above - no, it is **not** necessarily "common knowledge" that canned is better than dry so you are very much mistaken about that issue. In fact, many of my colleagues who refuse to utilize the common sense part of their brain still recommend dry over canned so it is not "common knowledge".

What IS "common" is cats ending up with urethral obstructions and other UT issues.

Because of this sad and dangerous fact, it is very important that when dry food threads are brought up on this board, urethral obstructions, as well as basic urinary tract health, are mentioned. Just saying "canned is better than dry" without mentioning some specifics is not going to make much impact.

One other option to typing out the important urinary health issues is to just recommend that the person asking about dry food visits my Urinary Tract Health page.

To the comment that "millions of cats have lived well on dry food".... the six blocked cats I just dealt with over the past 10-14 days won't find much solace in that.

Again, and I don't think this can ever be repeated too often, I really do sympathize with anyone dealing with a diabetic cat. I know that you are all incredibly stressed. Plus, many of you do much better than I would at dealing with this disease!! I have also acknowledged many times that switching a diabetic dry-food-addict is harder than a non-diabetic.....no doubt about that. And, there is no doubt that cat owners will vary with respect to their commitment to getting their cats switched to a water-rich diet but none of these are reasons why any board member should refrain from repeatedly discussing the very serious urinary tract health problems that arise from the feeding of water-depleted diets.

Also note that I work with a lot of rescuers who feed feral cats and who, obviously, cannot afford to feed much canned food. Therefore, I recommend that they soak the dry food before feeding. Yes, this wii increase the bacterial content but that is a risk that I willingly take rather than risk a urethral obstruction. Of course this method backfires for dry food addicts that are fixated on the **texture** but it helps people who are feeding a lot of cats on a budget.
 
Thanks Rebecca. You've done such a wonderful thing, providing this board, and I'm sure countless cats are thriving because of you.

I shall lurk, and take what I need from it and hope that some will consider other points of view when posting.

[Don't just lurk, Jen! No one is picking on you; we love to hear from you. Read Dr. Lisa's wise words about how defensive we can all get. _R]

 
Hope + (((Baby)))GA said:
realize your main concern is with their cat, not their feelings.
Click to expand...

I admit that I am obsessed with cat welfare and always will be. As korny as it sounds, I feel like I am their voice. They are a 'captive audience' and they have no say about how they are fed or treated.

No matter how something is worded, some people will take offense and become defensive. I can't help that. However, hopefully the majority of people will take my comments in the spirit in which they are intended....ie.....simply to help the cat and to educate.....not to infer that anyone is "horrible".
 
My first reaction was feeling defensive but my second reaction was just feeling crummy about my lack of knowledge about cat food. It does make me feel pretty horrible. It's not anyone's fault, they are just stating facts.
Milo has been overweight for the majority of his life and I have had vet techs tell me that I am killing him. They never said that my problem is an all dry food diet. He used to weigh 25lbs and I tried to limit his food but I read on Lisa's site that reducing the dry won't help. It's kind of a face-palm moment. The last several years of 'diets' were pointless. He is down to 16.8 but that is because of the diabetes.
I know the goal is to completely abolish dry food but for now I am going to just try switching the DM dry for the Evo. Which was what he was eating before the diabetes. But I am worried about the amount of calories in it. I don't want him to gain back all that weight.

I am still going to feed him the DM canned for now. My other cats eat Wellness, only chicken and turkey, they hate all the fish flavors. Milo isn't really into it but I will try to get him into it. His numbers have been so high I am hoping changing his dry food will help. I am not really sure how much to feed him. If he ate only Wellness canned how much should he eat a day? I give him the DM 3 times a day and he grazes on dry. I would say he eats about half a can of canned.

The Catinfo site is very helpful. I already learned a lot from an hour of reading. I do agree that it is not common knowledge that dry food isn't great for cats. Everyone I know with cats feeds them dry food. My mom is the one that got me into the Wellness and Evo.
 
If he ate only Wellness canned how much should he eat a day? I give him the DM 3 times a day and he grazes on dry. I would say he eats about half a can of canned.
Click to expand...

The best way to figure out how much canned food he would need if he were only eating canned is to determine what his "ideal body weight" would be. It's not an exact science because he's diabetic, and usually a diabetic cat needs more calories per day than a non-diabetic cat would.

Have you looked at Dr. Lisa's revised food charts? On the far right hand side, she lists the amount of calories in a can for each flavor and brand.
http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf
Maybe you know, or could ask your vet, what Milo's ideal weight would be?
A good ball park number is 15-20 calories per pound of ideal weight, per day. My vet told me that 13-14 pounds was "right" for Bob. I've found that if I feed him around 250 calories per day, he stays in that weight range. For him, that equates to 2 cans of Fancy Feast and half a can of Friskees per day, spread out over 3 meals. I believe that on the catinfo site, there are also calories per day guidelines.
I do agree that it is not common knowledge that dry food isn't great for cats. Everyone I know with cats feeds them dry food. My mom is the one that got me into the Wellness and Evo.
Click to expand...
Don't feel alone! I'd have to guess that most people feed dry food to their cats. I did before diabetes. It is so much easier, it doesn't "stink up the house", and it's so simple to just top off the bowl before you leave for work. And our cats become "grazers" and eat all day and all night. I'm guessing it screws up their metabolism too.
If you think of a "wild cat", sure they might hunt often during the day or night, but only because they need to. They're a lot more active than a domestic cat, and they eat just to survive, not because they just feel like eating because there's a convenient source of food in the next room. For them, food is hard to come by, and it's eat or get eaten. I can't recall watching any Nat Geo specials on wild cats where you see any that are just laying around all day fat and happy. :smile:

Carl
 
sulile said:
Just wanted to know the prevailing opinion on the dry EVO Grain Free Turkey & Chicken Formula. I'm trying to find something lower in carbs than the Purina dry DM I've been feeding my Buddy. I bought some EVO Turkey & Chicken Formula today which he seems to like so far (amazing). The Nutritional Analysis on the bag says Carbohydrates 7%. This is almost half of what the dry Purina DM is (I think). Is this fairly accurate? I've also tried the EVO soft canned food, but he does not care for it.

Susan
Click to expand...

I'm new to the diabetic cat world too and have been feeding my cat orijin dry. I'm really was bummed that my cat never wanted wet cat food not even table scraps like chicken. But I found a way that is encouraging, her to switch over. When I give her shot I give her 1/4tsp or even less of all natural unflavored yogurt with no sweetners in it. It was the only way I could get her to stay still while I shoot her. She loves the yogurt and I have been mixing caned food into it, like a 1/8tsp and she'll eat it. I will steadily increase the canned and then decrease the yogurt until it's gone....fingers crossed, it's an idea you that might work, try it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top