Questions - still learning

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Jennifer and Spot (GA)

Jennifer and Spot (GA)

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We have been taking Spot's blood in the AM BEFORE he eats. Then he eats, then give him the shot. Is that ok?

We are going to give him 2 shots a day now, changing from 1. If we do this at 8 AM, do we have to wait to feed him till 8 PM, or can we take his blood/then feed him at 6:00 PM? He (and the other kitty) seem so hungry now that they're just eating Fancy Feast and sometimes a medallion of raw chicken from Nature's Variety. I don't think they'll hold out 12 hours. I just want to make sure that if we need to take his blood BEFORE eating, and since that seems to be the case, can it be 10 hrs between doses?

We are still having trouble with the ear prick, even after all the things I've read here. Sorry. We use the ReliOn pen that came with our package (Confirm) but we miss more often than not. We have it set on 5 and yet often don't get much blood. We have tried without the pen but sometimes Spot at least "appears" to feel that.
 
You want to take his BGs before eating. Since food can influence the numbers as well as you want to take it as close to before giving insulin as possible. Is there anyway you can move both shots to 6am/6pm if their normal dinner time is 6pm? Lantus really does work the best when it can be given 12 hours apart or as close as possible to that 12/12 schedule do to the shed that is used by Lantus.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.
 
I am not really sure what your schedule in between shots is like. Would it be possible to feed him more than 2 times a day? You could test, feed and shoot the shot at 8am, but not feed him as much as normal, (like maybe 2/3 of it), and then you could give him a snack about 5 or 6 hours later with the rest of the normal meal. That might hold him over until 8PM, when you could test, feed and shoot again. It actually can help to spread the food out during the day if possible, as that spreads the food boost to his BG more evenly. The only time you really don't want him to eat is in the 2 hours leading up to the AM and PM tests at shot time.

Carl
 
Um ... how much are you feeding each of them? I've got a 12 lb civvie who needs about 6 oz am AND pm to keep his weight stable.
 
With Lantus, if you shoot at 8 AM, you need to shoot at 8PM. I test, feed, and shoot while he's eating. After is OK as long as it's right after, within a few minutes of the test. Most of us try to get food in in the first half of each cycle, so the first six hours. You should not generally feed within two hours before a shot as the food will influence the numbers. I feed at shot time, +1, and +2 hours, because he has an early nadir. Many feed up to hour six. How much is your cat getting? Remember that an unregulated diabetic (the general definition of regulated is under 300 at all times, well-regulated is, I believe, under 200.)is literally starving because he can't use his food very well, and may need more food than the average cat. Mikey gets the equivalent of 4-5 cans of Fancy Feast a day, split between six meals (1 can at shot time, 1/2 at +1 and +2). Some people's diabetic cats need twice that at the beginning. It's all in the timing. If you can't be around to feed, you can get a feeder with a timer that opens a compartment of food at a set time, or freeze portions in an ice cube try and put them out for your cat to eat as they melt.

So, while you really do need to shoot as close to 12 hours as you can, you can' feed more than twice a day, just not within a couple hours of the next meal. In general, it's best to get most of the food in int he first half of the cycle, or before your cat's nadir.
 
ammonzon said:
We are still having trouble with the ear prick, even after all the things I've read here. Sorry. We use the ReliOn pen that came with our package (Confirm) but we miss more often than not. We have it set on 5 and yet often don't get much blood. We have tried without the pen but sometimes Spot at least "appears" to feel that.
Click to expand...

Are you using the lancets that came with the pen? If so, that could be your problem. the 30-33g lancets don't work very well to start. I would run out and grab some 26-28g lancets. They will be much easier to get a drop of blood with.

Also, are you backing the ear with a piece of tissue or a cottonball as you poke? That's another problem when people start out with the device. You need to make sure that the ear is firmly backed as you poke, or you won't get a drop.

Another option is to take the cap off the pen and freehand the poke so that you can see better. I'd say about half the people here use the pen, and the other half freehand, so it's all a matter of what you find easier to do.
 
We test, then feed, and give the shot right while Boo is eating (if you're working on this alone, you can prepare the shot just before you put the food out, so you're ready to go). We feed and shoot, at 9am and 9pm; if we notice the food is running low, we put out about 1/4 of a fresh/refrigerated can (we have two cats) around 6am and 6pm, which gives Boo and his sister time to sit down and fill up on a snack, and then have better odds of having Boo's 9am and 9pm BG readings mostly unaffected by food.

Based on my experience, I highly recommend using 28-gauge lancets freehand, rather than 30/31 gauge lancets in a lancet pen. We were pretty unsuccessful in accomplishing much with the pen, and mostly just bruised Boo's ears and upset him. The larger lancets can be used quickly and gently (warming the ear first with the heated rice-sock), with much less trauma to everyone. Slip a roll of bandage tape around the finger you'll have behind the ear -- it will let you poke firmly and more confidently without hitting your finger, will help to hold and stablize the ear, and can be 'cleaned' by just taking off a layer of tape once it collects a few blood spots/smears. Also, make sure you're getting the right spot on the ear -- in many cases, people aim too far in; you actually want to get *very* close to the ear edge (outside of where the visible vein is, not right into it), about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way up the ear. And the ears really do 'learn to bleed' better after many attempts, plus you can aim very near previous successful spots after you get a feel for where they are. After pricking, 'milk' the ear a little from the lower edge up to just below the puncture, and try to get the drop while it's still beaded up. Also, don't stress out too much! It's been less than 2 weeks since I started learning how to do all of this, and I've already become pretty skilled at it.
 
Thanks, Vidya. We are using 28 lancets now and have better success with those, though still sometimes have trouble. Warming his ear helps for sure.

I do not think our cat can hold out until 8 PM for his food. He is starving by the afternoon it seems. I really don't know how much Fancy Feast to give him per meal. He's about 11.5 pounds and used to be 16 in August. Feeding him at 6 AM is not doable. Sorry, I need my rest.
 
A good general rule is to feed 20-30 calories per pound of ideal weight, per day. So, if 12 pounds, for instance, was his ideal weight, he would need 240 to 360 calories a day to maintain his ideal weight.
Activity level could determine where in that range he needs to be. My cat, Bob, is pretty much a sloth, so he'd be towards the lower end of that scale. At this point, he is a diet controlled diabetic, so he's got "normal" BG and metabolizes his food normally. A diabetic can't do that, so by nature, they need more calories per day until their BG is under control.

The average can of FF classics has 80ish calories per can. (the calorie count per can is listed on the canned food charts). So Spot probably needs at least 3 cans per day, perhaps 4 using that formula.

On the lancets - I started with little luck using 33g, and never even tried the device. I free handed just because I felt it helped me see where I was poking his ear better, and I felt like I had more control over the lancet. He would have freaked out from the noise of the device too. I ended up buying 26g, and as I tested more, I was able to use 28, then 30 and eventually 33g and was able to get blood every try. One, his ears "learned to bleed" as time went by, and two, I just got better with practice. I also found his left ear always bled better than his right ear, so I eventually only used the left ear.

Carl
 
Thank you, Carl. Tonight we were able to get his blood and alas, it was 466. Sigh. Higher than when he was first diagnosed 3 wks ago. We gave him a shot at 6:30, then fed him. I hope it's lower tomorrow.

I had no idea I should give Spot that much food, like 3 cans of Fancy Feast. I have been giving him maybe a can a day, mixed with the Nature's Variety raw. I may stop doing the raw after this package is done, he doesn't eat it unless it's mixed with the FF, and sometimes I worry he lets it sit out longer than it's supposed to (over a half hour).
 
Try sprinkling some parmesan cheese on top of the food. I'm serious. I learned this trick last week via catinfo.org, and now I've created a monster and my Pumbaa won't eat well until I've sprinkled on the parmesan! *LOL*

Also, do add water to the canned food as that helps them eat more and promotes good kidney functions.
 
ammonzon said:
Thank you, Carl. Tonight we were able to get his blood and alas, it was 466. Sigh. Higher than when he was first diagnosed 3 wks ago. We gave him a shot at 6:30, then fed him. I hope it's lower tomorrow.
Click to expand...

It is a process, not an event. What you are likely to see is a gradual lowering of starting numbers and a gradual lowering of nadir numbers. Thats where the spreadsheet comes in handy - it lines up all the tests over all the days and you can see by the color coding how its going.

ammonzon said:
I had no idea I should give Spot that much food, like 3 cans of Fancy Feast. I have been giving him maybe a can a day, mixed with the Nature's Variety raw. I may stop doing the raw after this package is done, he doesn't eat it unless it's mixed with the FF, and sometimes I worry he lets it sit out longer than it's supposed to (over a half hour).
Click to expand...

The Nature's Variety raw has calories too, so you aren't as off as you might be. One can of Fancy Feast has a volume of 3 oz or about 1/3 cup. If you stop the raw, go with 2 FF cans am and pm and look for leftover food. When you consistently see leftover food, you can reduce the amount by the estimated volume left. Ex a fourth uneaten, give 1 .5 cans next meal.

If you mix it in a big bowl, then measure out the volume you want to give, or weigh on a digital scale you can be more precise. My Big civvie can eat roughly 7 oz or 1/2 cup plus 1/3 cup (volume oz are roughly equivalent to weight oz)

Note that if you add water first, you are reducing the calorie count, so measure the portion and then add any extra water.
 
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