? Questions on Feeding plan for NPH insulin cat

[Becky and Gray-Gray]

Thank you @Deb & Wink and @Marje and Gracie so much for the information It is challenging for me to read her behavior but I am trying to respond with more affection during our interaction instead of it being just about getting the needle poke and food.

I have decreased her food consumption Wednesday from one 3oz can three times in am and three times in pm to weighing out her meals on a food scale. Her first am meal is 2oz(5:30am), wait 1 hour shot, second am meal 2 oz(8:30am), then third am meal 1 7/8 oz(11:30am). I repeat the cycle in evening. I know you said Novolin hits hard so I was giving her a bigger 5:30 meal to up the sugar. I was contemplating in decreasing her 8:30 meal down to 1 7/8oz similar to her 11:30 meal but wanted your opinion. i was starting to think about maybe only doing 1 big meal and 2 Or 3 little snacks since the Novolin wears off fast? I would love your thoughts on that idea.

Also I upped her insulin today from 0.75u to 1.0 u. I haven’t been home during day all week to monitor in am, but her pm SS seemed like it was a good idea. I will monitor her closely today to see how the unit modification affects her SS.

 

[Deb & Wink]

Ok, will keep my eye out for your posts Becky. Tag me or change the heading on your post title and put HELP at the beginning to get more eyes on your post. Only need to do that if Gray-Gray drops really low, I'd say under 100 and no answer to your post. If Gray-Gray drops under 50 with Novolin, we'd really worry and then change your thread/post title to 911 to get more help.

Gray-Gray has never been down in those green numbers, below 100, but there is always a first time.

The Novolin just doesn't have the duration a cat needs. That's the biggest problem with it. Have you ever thought about using a different insulin? No idea what your budget is like, but there are ways to get other insulins at lower costs.

p.s.Marje and Gracie are on vacation. So I'll be trying to help you over the next week or so. Very few people here with NPH experience. I'll tag @Larry and Kitties to see if he has any ideas, and get some extra help. He's a vet tech, has had a lot of diabetic kitties and may have some NPH insulin experience to lend here.

 

[Becky and Gray-Gray]

Ok, will keep my eye out for your posts Becky. Tag me or change the heading on your post title and put HELP at the beginning to get more eyes on your post. Only need to do that if Gray-Gray drops really low, I'd say under 100 and no answer to your post. If Gray-Gray drops under 50 with Novolin, we'd really worry and then change your thread/post title to 911 to get more help.

Gray-Gray has never been down in those green numbers, below 100, but there is always a first time.

The Novolin just doesn't have the duration a cat needs. That's the biggest problem with it. Have you ever thought about using a different insulin? No idea what your budget is like, but there are ways to get other insulins at lower costs.

p.s.Marje and Gracie are on vacation. So I'll be trying to help you over the next week or so. Very few people here with NPH experience. I'll tag @Larry and Kitties to see if he has any ideas, and get some extra help. He's a vet tech, has had a lot of diabetic kitties and may have some NPH insulin experience to lend here.

Thank you! In the event I might have an emergency how do I change the post title?

 

[Deb & Wink]

I know you said Novolin hits hard so I was giving her a bigger 5:30 meal to up the sugar. I was contemplating in decreasing her 8:30 meal down to 1 7/8oz similar to her 11:30 meal but wanted your opinion. i was starting to think about maybe only doing 1 big meal and 2 Or 3 little snacks since the Novolin wears off fast? I would love your thoughts on that idea.

Meant to comment on feeding food ideas.

We know that Gray-Gray needs to lose weight, but want to keep here safe with the fast acting Novolin which onsets quickly.

12 OZ total food intake right now.

Biggest meal before insulin is a good idea. Let's stick with the 6 oz each cycle for now spread out during the cycle into 3 meals , one big one, two smaller snack size. How about 1 can (3oz) of FF at 1 hour before her pre-shot test. Then 2 snacks of 1/2 a can each (1.5 oz each snack). That would be the 6 oz Gray-Gray is eating now each cycle, for a total of 12 Oz a day. With how unregulated Gray-Gray's BG levels are now, she can't really use all the food properly.

You have a timed feeder, so you can use that for the 2 snack size feedings. Do you use the timed feeder for the snacks at night also? A note on your SS made me think you might not be doing that, so that is why I'm asking.

I'm surprised to see Gray-Gray weighed 8.4 pounds at the vet but 11.4 on your scale at home. 3 pounds is a huge weight gain for 3 weeks. Does she have heart disease or other medicals problems? Would you please weigh her again?

 

[Deb & Wink]

Thank you! In the event I might have an emergency how do I change the post title?

You as the post creator can go to the very top of the post. Over on the right side of the screen you will see the words "Thread Tools" with a little drop down arrow. Click on that arrow and you will see "Edit Title". A black box opens with the old title there, change it and put HELP NOW or a real, life threatening emergency (cat seizing, comatose) put 911 at the beginning. Then click on "Save Changes".

You could make a tiny change now, to test and see how it works. Maybe change the title from "Glucose Meter Advice" to "Questions on Feeding plan for NPH insulin cat".

You will also see in that title in the black window, an area to the far left of your post title that says (no prefix). Using the drop down arrow you can change that to the ? mark icon. Try that too.

 

[Becky and Gray-Gray]

Meant to comment on feeding food ideas.

We know that Gray-Gray needs to lose weight, but want to keep here safe with the fast acting Novolin which onsets quickly.

12 OZ total food intake right now.

Biggest meal before insulin is a good idea. Let's stick with the 6 oz each cycle for now spread out during the cycle into 3 meals , one big one, two smaller snack size. How about 1 can (3oz) of FF at 1 hour before her pre-shot test. Then 2 snacks of 1/2 a can each (1.5 oz each snack). That would be the 6 oz Gray-Gray is eating now each cycle, for a total of 12 Oz a day. With how unregulated Gray-Gray's BG levels are now, she can't really use all the food properly.

You have a timed feeder, so you can use that for the 2 snack size feedings. Do you use the timed feeder for the snacks at night also? A note on your SS made me think you might not be doing that, so that is why I'm asking.

I'm surprised to see Gray-Gray weighed 8.4 pounds at the vet but 11.4 on your scale at home. 3 pounds is a huge weight gain for 3 weeks. Does she have heart disease or other medicals problems? Would you please weigh her again?

I just reweighed her on my bathroom scale and she is 10.8pounds. She has a glucose curve scheduled in one week, so I will have them reweigh her on their scale and compare.

I was not using food timer in pm, maybe I should start using it. Moving forward I like your recommendation of feeding 3, 1.5, 1.5oz. I already fed Gray-Gray her 5:30 Preshot meal at 2oz this morning. She will be receiving her 8:30 snack shortly in 20 minutes. I’m not sure how many ounces to feed her for each snack during this am cycle since I’m in the middle of the unit change and dose transition.

 

[Deb & Wink]

Don't change the amount of food for this cycle. You can work on that later.

Using the timed feeder in the PM means Gray-Gray might not wake you up at night.

For your next vet visit, if he asks you why you changed the food, do you have your reasons ready?
Maybe print a copy of the 2018 AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines and show him those. I've attached the PDF version here, so you can open it in Adobe Acrobat and read it yourself. And print a copy if you can.

Or visit the AAHA (American Animal Hospital Association) website here to look at it on-line.

Basically, for cats - good insulin such as Lantus, Levimir, Prozinc; low carb (<12%)canned food; home testing. NPH and Vetsulin are good for dogs, but not for cats because of poor duration.

 

[Becky and Gray-Gray]

Don't change the amount of food for this cycle. You can work on that later.

Using the timed feeder in the PM means Gray-Gray might not wake you up at night.

For your next vet visit, if he asks you why you changed the food, do you have your reasons ready?
Maybe print a copy of the 2018 AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines and show him those. I've attached the PDF version here, so you can open it in Adobe Acrobat and read it yourself. And print a copy if you can.

Or visit the AAHA (American Animal Hospital Association) website here to look at it on-line.

Basically, for cats - good insulin such as Lantus, Levimir, Prozinc; low carb (<12%)canned food; home testing. NPH and Vetsulin are good for dogs, but not for cats because of poor duration.

I read through the 2018 AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines and it’s sounds like Lantus is the best option and the Novolin I’m on is the worst option. I am going to share this with my vet. If money wasn’t a factor, would you agree that Lantus is a better choice versus Levimir? If I am going to make a switch I want to switch to the best choice for my kitty.

Side note, everything seems good so far with the dose change this morning Thank you

 

[Deb & Wink]

I read through the 2018 AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines and it’s sounds like Lantus is the best option and the Novolin I’m on is the worst option. I am going to share this with my vet. If money wasn’t a factor, would you agree that Lantus is a better choice versus Levimir? If I am going to make a switch I want to switch to the best choice for my kitty.

If money is not an issue, yes the lantus or levimir are better options than Novolin. See suggestions on how to cost save further down in this post.

Yes, Novolin is just about the worst option for a diabetic cat. Duration, lasting a full 12 hour cycle, is just not there and most people work so they can not dose 3 times a day, every 8 hours. I worked to guide a couple of people trying that method years ago. But it's really difficult for folks to live their lives and take care of all their responsibilities without that extra burden, of testing and shots 3 times a day. In my opinion the NPH insulins don't work well and I am a bit sad to see that vets still think it's an ok insulin for cats. Dogs yes, cats no. The only thing it has going for it is the lower cost, but even that is going up rapidly in the US.

Lantus and levimir are both good insulins for cats. Deciding between the 2 is often a personal decision and thinking about things like what your work schedule is like and when the testing needs to be done, if your cat is a high dose cat (over 6 Units) Levimir stings less with the injection. Some cats do better on one than the other. Some vets do not like to use medications "off-label" and that is what any vet that will prescribe either of these 2 insulins is doing. They do it with a lot of other medications also. You'll need to see if your vet will give you a prescription first. Some vets have never used lantus or levimir and reluctant to prescribe them.

There are people here that have used and can help you with either lantus or levimir. I think a lot more people choose the lantus because there is a scientific protocol established, but please don't use that as a deciding factor.

I'm going to ask you to read one more document. This is from over in the ISG (insulin support group) over in the Lantus/Levimir forum. To help you see if you think lantus or levimir might be a good choice for you and your cat. Maybe read through a couple of posts from members over there. It's very busy, and full of terminology you might not know yet. Don't get overwhelmed, please. Any decision does not have to be made right now. Gray-Gray is safe on Novolin for now, you are feeding good food, you are home testing. Think it over. Ask more questions.

The Basics: New to the Group? Start here!

Availability of either lantus or levimr is pretty widespread in the US but there are VERY expensive here. You don't live very close to the Mexican border, but if you lived around San Diego I'd say go to a pharmacy across the border. The other option that people use here is to order from Canada, Mark's Marine Pharmacy. Linking you to a post on that here. Something else for you to read.

You need a prescription from your vet first. Lots of folks here that live in the US use that pharmacy. Member Chris & China found that several years ago.

Side note, everything seems good so far with the dose change this morning Thank you

Yeah!!!