? Question re: Diet

Hello!
I posted the other day about our 15/16 year old cat named Callie who was recently diagnosed with Diabetes. We are still very early on in the process and she just started her insulin injections last Thursday. She gets 1 unit of the Lantus Solostar insulin 2x a day via syringe. She's doing well - getting used to the shots, now howling anymore, but still drinking and peeing a ton. She goes in Friday for her BG Curve Test, and we've purchased a glucometer.
My question is regarding diet. We've done lots of reading, research, etc, and we've decided which food to put her on, but what we don't know is how to go about it - we know that changing their diet also impacts the insulin dosage, as we saw this:

If you change your diabetic cat’s diet to one with lower carbohydrates, he will, in all probability, IMMEDIATELY (not days or weeks later) require a reduction in his insulin dosage. He may also immediately go into ‘remission’ and not need any insulin at all.

If this warning is ignored, you may very well end up with a cat in a hypoglycemic crisis (dangerously low blood sugar) which can result in death, or brain damage.

If you take only one point away from this page, it needs to be the understanding that if you stop pouring carbs into your cat by switching to a low-carb canned food diet (or even a dry food diet with lower carbs than you have been feeding), you MUST be aware of the probable immediate and significant impact on your cat’s insulin needs.

Of course we don't want that to happen, and I did mention it to our vet who didn't seem to think it was an issue, so I wanted to ask here - where do we start?

Thank you!

 

Your intro post
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...s-could-use-some-support-in-boston-ma.289034/

 

On your spreadsheet up too can you also fill in the information
Date Diagnosed , Insulin, Meter ,once you decide on what dosing method you want to follow you can add that to your signature and your spreadsheet up top
The 2 dosing methods will explain when an increase or decrease is needed
Read all the yellow stickys here about lantus
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/

 

@Suzanne & Darcy
@Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)
@Wendy&Neko
Thanks ladies

@JessK&Callie
What food are you feeding now? And what food did you decide to switch to?
Are you using the U-100 syringes with the half unit markings, we adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time and these syringes make it easier to do that

 

Hello! I already did all of the information on date diagnosed/insulin/meter and added it to my signature and the spreadsheet is also in there.
Does it not show? I can see it. I'll take a look at the stickies. We've just been doing what the vet said which is 2x a day, 12 hours apart.

 

Righ

Hello!

Right now we free feed dry food - https://www.hillspet.com/cat-food/sd-feline-adult-11-plus-dry

She LOVES her dry, so I think we still may need to have some out - I was thinking this - https://www.youngagainpetfood.com/products/zero-cat-food

For wet, she eats this - https://www.amazon.com/Purina-Fancy...-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

And we were thinking to switch to this - https://www.amazon.com/Purina-Friskies-Pate-Poultry-Platter/dp/B002CJAQ56/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2Q1QA698ZUVEH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.RFPUhOrGgBLBykUnARe4QoQiXgxWB_ParusjJyfGrreCywNIl9Z85rfL1hJM5Xcti8ezITqPPW89gQXfjqq2_RqpWDEveuAtvQdmRXp-ZmICu4aoSjQbP7HtJxGHd45M3T63kulPkBhouUusKvbQ0jrVZsqEw7cv9uc7Awr5fvbkhybWEO4rK0zMv7uztA58DMvmMwdH_GjgyKJfTmMpBJt1kuqaQ2Bs5V2loNxcmY3dfvka2OAo6WjxJ_P2-3o2ULEYVjJVWO-xjW1Pf4t7i-1qMZpQ-RXkxfc4oo7YDEw.9nWGd_KDxfkWAzS43XxgHX3Qs4cnta9Kt5pgVRZNEdU&dib_tag=se&keywords=friskies poultry platter pate cat food&qid=1713814813&s=pet-supplies&sprefix=poultry platter,pets,145&sr=1-1

Our syringes don't have half unit markings. We just have the ones that the vet called in with the insulin, we're happy to buy other ones if that's better/safer. We will take any and all advice we can get.

I will update the spreadsheet. Sorry, we're brand new to this so I'm still getting the hang of it all!

 

Well, what you quoted seems like a great example of a scare tactic. There is some truth to what you posted but I suspect the strength of the comment is to get readers to pay attention and it's geared to people who are not home testing.

You want to make a slow transition from any food to a new food and especially so if you are changing to a diet that is much lower in carbs. As an example, you may want to measure out what you are currently feeding, and swap out a teaspoon of the old with a teaspoon of the new. Monitor your cat's blood glucose and see how her numbers look. If necessary, lower the dose of insulin. You may want to read the sticky note on the Lantus board regarding dosing strategies so you have some idea of when to reduce and by how much. If you are going to continue to feed your cat any form of dry food, you are limited to using the Start Low Go Slow dosing method. There's also a great deal of information on Lantus and its use in the sticky notes on that board.

 

If that's what they were going for, then they succeeded because that scared me to death. I knew that you had to go slow, but then I saw that and now I'm terrified to even touch her food. We just got our glucometer in the mail yesterday, so we haven't started home testing yet but we are going to with the next shot. I will absolutely read that sticky!

 

In your previous post, Sienne linked a post that has all sorts of information on testing, along with plenty of videos. Work on getting comfy with testing before you switch food.

Side note, not sure what value the curve at the vet will do. Many cats go higher at the vet due to stress of being there - you do not want to change doses based on stressed induced high numbers. We tend to stop going to the vets for curves once we learn how to home test. Better data and much, much cheaper. Spend the money on test strips instead. I did give my vet copy of Neko's spreadsheets, so she saw how much I tested. After a while I stopped doing that, and our entire conversation about diabetes was the vet asking "what's her current dose?" and I answered.

The gourmet naturals FF you linked is low carb food. If she likes it, keep on feeding it to her. The Poultry Platter is marginally higher carb, but still low carb so OK to feed as well.

As far as dry food goes, if it is necessary, you might want to consider Dr. Elsey's clean protein chicken. The Young Again is more expensive and it is very rich, lots of reports of stinky poops.

As for syringes, yes, you want ones with half unit markings. There is a Sticky Note on the top of the Lantus forum that talks about insulin and syringes and has some brands that are commonly used here.

 

So, I had someone else say that to me about the curve at the vet. It sounds horrible - her stuck in a cage all day, stressed out, so the numbers are skewed. We just went along with whatever the vet said because we have absolutely no experience with this so we thought it was what we had to do. Would you recommend doing the one time curve test until we get more comfortable, or is it ok to leave her at the low starting dose until we can do a curve ourselves? I just want what is the best for her so I will do whatever has to be done.

Regarding the food - that's great about the FF. I thought it was 12% and I had read we should be at 10% or under with 7 being ideal, which is why I thought we had to switch, but if we don't then that would be fab. She does like it, though she gets picky sometimes so I'd like to have a backup. If you have any other reccs for wet foods that you've heard have worked well, I'm open to suggestions. I will absolutely look at Dr. Elsey's!

I will also get syringes with half unit markings.

 

Now I see it on your SS

 

It's just really hard to say how a cat will do in a curve at the vet. I did only one curve at the vet, again, before testing properly at home. Neko was in higher numbers the whole time, but the vet also skipped the last test of the curve cause she was so stressed. A lot of vets ask for curves to be done at the vet. If a person isn't home testing at all, there might be some value. I've also heard of people finding out their cat was going low during a vet curve! I also had a non diabetic kitty, same time as Neko, who got really stressed at the vet and was around 230 on his blood work. It was an emergency, not his usual vet. Vet called me all concerned about possible diabetes. I tested him at 53 at home.

You have to decide whether you want to do the curve at the vet - some cats need less than 1 unit, some way more. Just be aware the resulting numbers may be skewed and you might want to post here how she did, for us to help.

 

@JessK&Callie
These are the syringes I used before Tyler went into remission.
I liked them, you won't need a script when ordered from Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/UltiCare-31-Gauge-Veterinary-Insulin-Syringes/dp/B009LTE0DO


Here is our food list most feed around 6 % carbs or under
You will see more Fancy Feast and Friskies flavors she might like
http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_Bw


Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

From what I have read on our site they are 5 or 6% carbs so that's ok
I read the same thing about The Young Again Kibble stinky poops

Dr Elsey's will send you a sample . You can see if Callie likes them before buying them ,get the chicken flavor. Dr Elsey's Clean Protein

Dr Elsey's web site
https://www.drelseys.com

I think this is there phone number
Phone: 877-311-2287

Jess can you add SLGS to your signature also

Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
Here is a video one of our members made testing her kitty
She's using a pet meter that has to be coded ,with a human meter you don't have to code it.

I have always used a human meter
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

 

GAH! It's so overwhelming trying to figure out what's best for her since all cats are so different. I will absolutely post here how she did - I SO appreciate everyones help. I think we'll probably have the vet do it on Friday since we just got the glucometer and haven't used it yet. Callie is pretty calm at the vet - but of course she isn't usually stuck in a cage there all day.

 

Hi! Thank you SO much for all of the info. I did use the food list that I found here which is where I found the ones I mentioned. Oh a sample is perfect! Thank you!! And yes I can add that to my SS. I am terrified to test her at home. I feel like I'd be hurting her, but I know it's necessary. Thank you so much for the instructions. I have no idea how we'll get her to sit still for it but we will figure it out. We did get a pet meter but I don't mind spending extra to get a human one if that's easier for her and/or us.

 

Hi Jess, you won't be hurting Callie when you poke her ear. Tyler actually purrs when I test him
Try to sit with her and start running her ears so she gets used to it.
I put Tyler on the couch and I sit on the side of him ,his side is back up against the couch. I have all the testing supplies in front of me.
You can give him a few pieces of either the young again or the Dr Elsey's when you receive the sample right before you are going to test him and after that so she will associate getting a treat with testing.
Have you ever tried freeze dried treats they are zero carbs
I'll give you a link below
About the meters ,either a pet meter or a human meter is fine.
Most all of us use/a human meter because the Alpha Trak strips are so expensive.
Our numbers are based on human meters
Most use the Relion Premier Classic from Walmart
Here is the link for the meter and test strips so you don't have to search for them
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197

Freeze dried treats
Click on this link and look at post #6. Numbers are to the right
You can get any freeze dried treats ,information is there
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/brand-new-many-questions-3.255627/#post-2878703

Freeze dried treats that only contain one ingredient (the meat or fish) is zero carb and fine to feed to a diabetic

 

Thank you for all of the links! Callie's still getting used to all of the shots and getting used to sitting still when we give her the insulin but hopefully we can get her as calm as Tyler is! I've never tried freeze dried treats but I will order some chicken ones, thank you!

 

You're welcome Jess
By the way my sisters kitty is named Callie.

 

Awww it’s a great name!
Callie had her curve today and her numbers were actually up
They told us to pull her dry food so now she’s pacing back and forth between the living room and where her dry food used to be. She lovessssss her dry food. I feel so bad.

 

@JessK&Callie
Hi Jess can you add the numbers to your spreadsheet for the curve,if it was done at the vets office they could be because she was stressed.
Have you done any tests at home yourself yet?

 

Take a look at our food chart for other flavors for a back up
Take a look at some of the Fancy Feast Options 6% carbs and under
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
@JessK&Callie

 

I don't see why you would have to stop the young Again or if you get the sample of Dr Elsey's Clean Protein Chicken flavor cold turkey, they are around 5 or 6% carbs. You can work on reducing it eventually if you want to follow the TR method which is more aggressive .
SLGS is fine right now , plus you need to start testing her so we can see how she is responding to the insulin

I see you are using the Alpha Team 3 , I know the test strips are very expensive. I assume your vet suggested it.
It's ok if you want to use it, I only suggested the Relion Meter since the meter and strips are much more affordable and that's what our numbers are based on.
I used the Alpha Trak in the beginning then switched to the human meter because I couldn't afford the price of the test strips and for the amount of testing you need to do I was going through them so fast
My vet was fine with it
But like I said if you want to stay with the Aloha Trak that's fine
@JessK&Callie

 

Hi! No she does not eat the Young Again. Never has. She was on Hills Science Diet 11+. We have some of the Elseys but haven't given it to her. They said no dry food at all.
The AlphaTrak3 was suggested to us from a friend who is a vet tech. The vet never even mentioned home testing. I'll probably switch over to the cheaper one. We just ordered it bc it was recommended and it came quickly and we just wanted to get started. @Diane Tyler's Mom

 

Yes we are good with wet food. She was already eating low carb FF so we're continuing that and getting some new flavors. @Diane Tyler's Mom

 

@Diane Tyler's Mom I'm not totally sure how to use the sheet yet but here was yesterday:

705am - given 1 unit of Lantus
820am - 378
1120am - 595
220pm - 506
420pm - 518

Her original value on 4/16 was 405.

 

I did update the spreadsheet, but the first reading at 820 above was done 1.25 hours after insulin, and the spreadsheet doesn't seem to let me input that without impacting other days readings.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...gOnKX0Yzk0tUYW49AjueoJOh0/edit#gid=1182885903

 

Jess tap on this link I explained to a member how to use the spreadsheet and enter the number
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/20-year-old-cat-bg-advice-please.284579/#post-3134331

We don't use times because we are all in different time zones
Read the post #43 , the post numbers are to the right of each post

Here is also the link on how to use the spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-use-the-spreadsheet.241653/

_Did you get any tests in last night?
If and when you start using the human meter let me know only because the last 2 color codes above in the spreadsheet will need to be changed to reflect that you are using a human meter
And your signature will have to say started human meter and the date
We can help you with that, just tag me
@JessK&Callie

 

Thank you!!! We will use the pet meter for now since we have it. We'll get the human one when the strips run out, so can I just leave it as is?
We didn't get any in last night because she had a looonggg rough day so we just left her to recoup.

 

Hi Jess that's fine ,yes just leave it as is for now
@JessK&Callie