Question on Kidney levels, parents cats

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PeterDevonMocha

PeterDevonMocha

Member Since 2009
Hi guys .. Sorry I have been hit and miss on here .. Was spending lots of time up at the nursing home with my grandma, until she recently passed .. She must of put in a good word for me as we sold our house soon after and have been on the hunt for a new one since, and packing packing packing!

So here is the scoop .. My parents have a male cat, roughly 8 years old (was adopted so unsure of exact age) He was a hefty little boy coming in near 18 pounds two years ago .. Told my parents that he shouldn't weigh that much so they changed him early this year over to a dry cat food for weight management .. About 6 months ago I noticed he was much thinner and it seemed that each time I saw him, he was thinner yet .. So peter started weighing him in May and since then he's lost according to their scales, about 2 pounds ..

Today my parents took him to the vet, the physical exam looked good but we just got the call about blood work .. She said his kidneys are in failure and gave me these ranges .. (Forgive me if I don't spell them right, hope someone can understand)\

Creatine 4.7, she told me their scale for normal is .8-1.8
BUN 85.4% and I think she said their range is 15-32%

She told me he did not seem dehydrated today so she didn't feel the need to put him right onto fluids .. She doesn't recommend prescription foods because they are pricey and most cats won't even eat them ..

As far as activity goes, he's still playing and eating and drinking like always .. He's had a little more urine in the box then usual, but she said that's because the protein goes through the urine creating more? Unless I misunderstood that ..

Is there anything that they can do at home to help buster out? She said that she believes his kidneys are probably at about 25% right now .. Poor little buster boy .. I feel for my parents ...
 
Hi. Sorry about your Grandma.

Yes, that creatinine level indicates kidney issues. Often, by the time kidney issues are discovered (a higher than normal creatinine # for example) the kidneys have about 25% remaining function. So most cats, although ECID!, with identified kidney insufficiency are operating at no more than 25%.

Common protocol, fluids to help flush the toxins that build up when the kidneys don't process them. Lots of different opinions about food. I agree, though, the prescription stuff is costly and I haven't met a cat that likes it! Phosphorus levels can be an issue with kidney kitties. Indicated in the bloodwork. Low phosphorus foods include Friskies Special Diet foods. Lisa Pierson's food chart identifies other low phosphorus commercial foods.

I currently have a renal cat. Just over the high normal. No fluids yet although I'm tempted!; not symptomatic yet which would include drinking lots, peeing lots and weight loss. My now departed Spike lived over four years with renal failure. Amount and frequency of fluids would increase as his numbers increased. I also used a supplement which I can't remember for the last few years. At 18 he succumbed to oral cancer; his kidney values had stabilized!

The BUN, although elevated as well, is less consequential than the Creatinine. BUN is influenced by many factors, e.g., dehydration, etc. Still it's elevation is consistent with kidney insufficiency.

I'm sure others with more experience will be along with ideas and information, too.

Good luck.

And congrats on the house sale!

Marilyn and Polly
 
Thank you both .. Buster has weight loss for sure, mainly in the last six months or so .. I asked about fluids, the vet didn't think it was necessary at this point .. Should I push them, even though he was not dehydrated today?
 
I have to stress, I am not an expert, but I think the vet was most concerned with is kitty eating, or vomiting? My own vet's stance was if the kitty was not crashing(severe dehydration, weight loss) he was not as concerned with pushing fluid yet. I know there are people on this forum that have a lot more experience than I do, we are in the early stages. The thing that I saw that was encouraging is that a kitty can live a long, managed life with CKD, glad your parents got him to the vet.
 
I've had two cats awith kidney disease. Eight is pretty young. Did they do a urinalysis to check for infection? What was the urine specific gravity if it was done? If there is an infection, the numbers could come down with treatment. Ruth gave you a good site with everything about kidney disease. If you can get a copy of all the blood tests and post them I might be able to tell you more.
 
They did not do a urinalysis to check for infection .. They only did bloodwork .. we were told it would take about 1-2 days to get the results back, but she called my parents within a few hours .. then they had her call me, as if I would understand any of it .. :? But I figured I could ask around on here .. Buster is still eating just like he was .. still drinking, well, sitting in the bathtub waiting for the faucet to drip like always .. Still playing like usual .. sleeping like usual .. getting into trouble like usual ..

I really hope this is something that can easily be managed ..
 
I'm a little distracted right now because of all that is going on with my Dad, plus I don't have long-term experience, but I'll give you my experience thus far. This past March, Trix was diagnosed with Stage IV CKD, totally out of the blue...no notable symptoms at all. We ran all sorts of tests and did an ultrasound to rule out stones, kidney infection, and cancer, as any of those can cause elevated kidney values. So, I would definitely run those tests with Buster, especially given his age.

Another huge thing for Trix, as we found out, is that she had high blood pressure. High BP can elevate kidney values, and once we got her BP under control, her kidney values improved - she was "upgraded" to Stage III. We are due for a recheck in a few weeks, and I'm very curious to see where she is at.

So, given everything with Buster, I would also strongly encourage BP check.

CKD is very manageable, although the initial info and diagnosis is a bit overwhelming...
 
Thanks Amy for taking the time to chime in .. I'll talk to my parents about these additional tests .. Is a BP test something that can be done at a regular vets office?
 
I'm sorry about Buster. Hopefully your parents can make a few changes like diet or fluids that will help him. Zener got his blood pressure checked at the vet recently and they had a cuff for his tail. It was not a big deal. The nurse took about 62 measurements and they varied quite a bit, they got progressively lower as he relaxed. They assumed that all were high due to stress of being at the vets. Many vines for Buster!
Liz
 
Hi Devon,
I'm sorry it was your grandma's time to pass.

Stu had CRF, but he had so many other issues and we elected to deal with hyper T first. He passed before we could address CRF. But Tanya's site (see the link above) is excellent and it is now available in book form, which may be of help to your parents.
Sending lots of healing vines to Buster.

Good luck with your house search,


Hugs, scritches,

Ella & Rusty
 
Devon

I agree he should be checked for a kidney infection. The most accurate way is an ultrasound. Gus used to get them occasionally but his urine never grew any bacteria. I do think Busters numbers are pretty high even for a kidney infection but if he does have one, they could come down.

Even if he does have a kidney infection, he needs fluids. It would be nice to see his phosphorus, potassium, calcium, HCT/PCV levels. One way to try and get the numbers down is IV fluids in the hospital. My guess is his P level will be high and he might be anemic.

When a cat that young has renal disease, you wonder if it is acute......he got into something. But some cats can have some genetic kidney diseases.

If there's any way to get a copy of his bloodwork, we could give you more info.

Congrats on the house sale!!! Hugs to you all inc Mocha Jo Latte and Twix.
 
Thank you everyone, for chiming in .. I will try and see if I can get a copy of his blood work .. I will also talk to my parents about these additional tests .. Unfortunately they are on a strict budget and nearly fainted at the $114 vet bill .. which I know all of us here would love to have a vet bill that low .. but for them .. I will do what I can to help them out if they wish to go further in this ..

If fluids are necessary, or should be done regardless, is there a cheap place to purchase them at? I'm sure the vet would be the most expensive place ..
 
IMO one of the first and most basic things to do is get Buster on wet food to combat dehydration. I agree the prescription stuff is probably not a good choice since cats don't like it and it's important that they eat. There's also some belief now that severely reducing protein is not that helpful and contributes to muscle wasting and weakness. You can look on the lists for a good moderate protein wet food that's low in phosphorus. I've also found a phosphorus binder to be very helpful - you can order Aluminum Hydroxide Powder from thrivingpets.com, info here: http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/aluminum-hydroxide.html. It's easy to give, it's a white powder that's odorless and tasteless and you mix a tiny bit in his food.

At his creatinine level I'd be thinking about fluids. You can buy them online with a prescription. But since Buster is playing and not dehydrated then maybe he doesn't need them. I'd think he'd be drinking and peeing up a storm but apparently not - it would be good to see how much he drinks if he's switched to a wet food diet. My two cents.

Sorry for the loss of your grandmother. You were good to spend so much time with her.
 
Thanks again everyone .. I will talk to my parents about switching to wet cat food .. They tried it in the past because of what I've told them, but buster chose not to be interested in it at all .. But perhaps now he might be .. I've checked out the link provided .. there is a ton of info on that page! Kinda overwhelming, but FD was at first as well .. so we'll take it one step at a time!
 
On the binder.....I agree that aluminum hydroxide is the best....and, as I said, with his creatinine where it is, his P is likely high. BUT....we need to see that level before you start binder. Binder is not usually started until the P is 5 or over.
 
Thanks Marje, I'll call the vet on Monday for a copy of the paperwork .. Today is the start of our town's festival and they aren't open until then ..
 
Hi Devon,

Sorry to hear about about your Grandma.

The CRK link Ruth gave is very good, & helped me with 3 of mine with kidney disease - I've had 4.

Our first cat also developed kidney disease at 7 years. Fluids helped her immensely and she lived another 7 years When first dx'd, she didn't get enough fluids & nearly died (down to 5 pounds from 13). I started giving them daily at home, then as she slowly improved we were able to space them out to once a week until the latter stages of the disease at the end. For most of those 7 years she lived a normal life & was queen of the roost here.

We didn't go the prescription food route, she didn't like the kibble or can, so it was an expensive waste. I chose instead to feed a quality kibble (Wysong) that she would eat - when she was nearly dead it was 1 kibble at a time. There are probably better foods (canned foods for sure) out there now, but this was years ago.

I purchased my fluids, needles & lines online with a prescription from my vet, then later found I could get the fluids at Costco. $25-35 for a case of 12 (Our vet charged $20-30 for 1 fluids administration, so you save a lot doing it yourself!) vs $60 for a case shipped to our location online. I still get my needles & lines online.

Our last kidney cat also did really well with Azodyl supplement (online purchase from a reputable seller & must be shipped ice packed over night). This was recommended by our vet.

Best of luck to your parents, I understand the overwhelm at first and also the budget restrictions.
 
Hi Devon, sorry to hear about Buster. The phosphorus level and other tests Marje mentioned should be on the tests that were already run. Fluids and lowering the phosphorus are two things that really help. Tess is Stage 2-3 and I have a list of low carb/low phosphorus foods on a tab on Tess's SS.

I think that Marje said you could get the fluids (Lactated Ringers) by the case at Walgreens too and the lines at Thriving Pets.

Keeping him eating is important, Tess likes the Friskies Special Diet too. Dry foods are hard on the kidneys though as they take a lot of water to process, giving the kidneys more work. Also CRF cats often have excess stomach acid, which makes them not want to eat. Slippery Elm Bark has really helped get Tess Back to eating well.
 
Thank you everyone! I talked to my parents today about doing fluids .. They seemed shocked they could be done at home .. I told them we would help in any way possible .. We also talked about switching over to wet cat food .. They aren't against it at all, tried it in the past, but buster had no desire for it .. We'll try again ..

My mom said the only thin she has noticed about buster is that he is definitely a little more loving lately .. Probably because of the torturous car ride to the awful place that poked and prodded on him .. :sad:
 
Ok was finally able to make it up to the vet's office for busters lab work .. Here are the test results ..

WBC 13.0
LYM 4.1
MONO 0.8
GRAN 8.1
LYM % 31.6
MONO % 6.0
GRAN % 62.4

HCT 26.0
MCV 41.8
RDWa 27.4
RDW % 18.7 H
HGB 9.9
MCHC 38.2
MCH 16.0
RBC 6.22

PLT 40 L
MPV NO RESULT AVAILABLE

BUN 85.4 H
CREATININE 4.7 H
BUN/CREAT RATIO 18.2
PHOSPHORUS 5.2

CALCIUM 9.3
TOTAL PROTEIN 7.2
ALBUMIN 3.3
GLOBULIN 3.9
ALB/GLOB RATIO 0.8
GLUCOSE 161 H
CHOLESTEROL 117

ALT (GPT) 40
ALP 29
GGT < 10
TOTAL BILIRUBIN 0.6 H

Under those scores are three boxes with charts, one is for WBC, RBC 9fl) and PLT (fl)

Then it reads,
WBC time 9.9 RBC Time 14.3 and ASP time 0.3
WBC DIFF: lymphocyte predominance, slide review advised
PLT Evaluate platelets on slide

Any clarifying would be greatly appreciated!!
 
Giving fluids at home is very important to CRF management. It is a little intimidating at first, but is is easy to do and the cat doesn't seem to mind once you establish a routine. I have had several CRF cats and they all did well with fluids. Another great link for Feline chronic renal failure is:

http://www.felinecrf.com/

My vet printed out this entire web site and put it in a binder which she keeps in her waiting room.
 
Hi. The normal ranges vary depending on the lab used. Is it IDEXX or Antech? He could benefit from phosphorus binders, a powder added to the food. He is borderline anemic with an HCT of 26 so B complex, the human type adding a little to the food would be helpful as well, Jarrow Brite is one often used, 7/10 of the capsule daily. Was a urinalysis done to rule out acute kidney failure due to a urinary tract infection and to see how well the urine is concentrated, the USG? With those numbers if infection is not there, daily fluids be likely be needed. In the meantime if they can get him to eat canned food and add water to it that would help a lot with hydration. Let us know the lab and I can add more.

I recommend the yahoo group feline-crf-support@yahoogroups.com to get more info. The larger group is now on BigTent but the volume of mail is way too much.
 
Thanks you guys .. I'm not sure on the lab, how would I find that out? It's not on the paperwork anywhere ..

As far as wet cat food goes, we tried multiple cans yesterday of the lower phosphorus food and he showed no interest at all .. Tried putting some kibble near it so he would sniff it and he didn't want any of it, tried warming it up, not interested, tried adding more water, not interested .. He is eating, just kibble, not wet food .. He was this way in the past when we tried to switch ..

Can the powder he may need be added to dry cat food?

No urinalysis was done on him ..
 
Maybe they did in house testing? Call and ask? If so I might ask you to supply the ranges fir some if the key numbers like you did fir he creatinine and bun.

Have they tried fancy feast or Science diet? Not the pâté style but the piecesue sliced or flaked? They have grains in the but are lower in phisphorus than the pates. Max used to be a dry food only guy. I had to crumble the dry food and put it in the wet to switch him. Lisa Pierson has written in how to get cats off dry food.
 
It shows rangers on the paperwork for the bun and creatinine ..

BUN 85.4 H 15.0-32.0 mg/dl
CREATININE 4.7 H 0.8-1.8 mg/dl

We did try Science Diet .. that's made by Hills, right? It was the pate style .. I'll try and grab him the sliced cans this weekend ..
 
The Science Diet one he might like is Ideal Balance. It is lower in phosphorus than many of the others and is in cubes. Good luck finding a food.
 
The range is slightly different from Trix's lab's range, but not much...but his values are similar to what hers were back in March when she was first diagnosed with Stage 4 CKD. Is there any way your folks could get his BP checked? As I mentioned earlier, getting Trix' high BP under control made a big difference in her kidney values, and I would strongly encourage that any kitty with CKD have their BP checked, but especially one with high kidney values that seem out of the blue, as that is exactly what happened to us. Her BP meds are very inexpensive, and now that we've got her BP controlled, she only has to go back every 3 months for a check.
 
Hey, Devon -

Sorry to hear about your Grandma. Sorry about Buster, too. Hershey's lab work indicated possible kidney disease, too, but the vet is planning to test, again. We switched him to Friskies Special Diet Turkey & Giblets. Have you tried adding some fortiflora to the wet to maybe entice Buster? Or, a couple of times when Hershey hasn't wanted to eat (NOT the norm!) we've crushed freeze dried treats on the food to entice him. Might be worth a try.

HUGS to you, Peter, and the furkids!

Libby (& Hershey, too!)
 
I'll give the call a vet hopefully today and see if they can do a BP check on buster .. I'll also take some of mochas chicken dried treats over to their house and see if that helps with the wet food appy .. Thanks again everyone!
 
HI Devon,
Thought I'd stop by & see how things were going here.

If your parents' cat still doesn't like eating canned, mine all like nutritional yeast sprinkled on top (+ it has the B vitamins which are helpful for a kidney cat) or also the FD chicken treats mashed to a powder sprinkled on top. If these don't do the trick, ALL mine go bonkers for the Nature's Variety raw boost bites crushed on top. Hope things are going better!
 
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